Anti-Govt Group Leader Gen Boonlert To Report To Police: Thailand

[Ricardo]

For those on this forum who profess so readily and sincerely to really having sympathy with the plight of poor people in Thailand it is pure hypocrisy to deny the importance of the Red Shirt movement in making that plight known in the first instance.

Complete hogwash. Many of us came here long before the red shirts were even a twinkle in Thaksin's eye. Didn't need the red shirts to know and understand about the plight of the poor working classes in Thailand then, and don't need them now.

Nice - you knew of the problems of the lower classes when they weren't represented nationally and that's exactly how you'd like them to stay - without representation or political leverage, which is the only way they will ever ease the plight you and others here condescend to endorse.

Whatever you think of the leadership, it simply can't be argued that had the red shirt movement not existed, the rights of the poor would still be as much a part of mainstream public awareness as it is now.

"and that's exactly how you'd like them to stay"

I simply can't see, how you might have drawn this conclusion from what rixalex said, I suspect you're imputing attitudes which he/others don't have, perhaps to enhance your case ? Think about it.

For those on this forum who profess so readily and sincerely to really having sympathy with the plight of poor people in Thailand it is pure hypocrisy to deny the importance of the Red Shirt movement in making that plight known in the first instance. Sympathy for the poorer

Well if any other government apart from a Thaksin-sponsored one had ever 'thrown them a bone' (according to their own perception - which is the one that counts), maybe the poor of the land would be less susceptible to the kind of manipulation you suggest.

I hope you are not as naive to think that previous governments over the decades never made promises to the large, poor section of the electorate which have invariably failed to materialize.

One might cite the recent Democrat-led coalition-government for running a modified less-corrupt rice-price-support scheme, or not charging the poor 30B for permission to visit a hospital, or for extending the free education ?

I suspect that the recent rise of a Red-Shirt movement, since or in response to Thaksin's removal-from-power, would gain much more support from many TV-posters, were it not for their leadership appearing to be the willing-tools of one elite individual, and his family.

[OzMick]

The red shirts consider PTP to be "their" party, and why not, so many of their "leaders" were given a free ride into parliament to avoid prosecution.

But which PTP policies are benefitting the poor to any major extent? Their main goal is a whitewash for Thaksin, clearly. After that rice-pledging, which is wasting huge amounts of money and the stated aim of helping poor farmers is an abject failure - the minor success it does achieve only encourages them to stay in an inefficient and uneconomic industry AND REMAIN POOR.

Instead of education reform they have opted for pie-in-the-sky tablets, for children who cannot yet read. High speed trains to Chiang Mai, while cutting back on standard rail upgrade, B30 for medical treatment (since dropped), flood works that appear to be a cover for massive corruption. It's no wonder that everybody will be rich after 6 months - when's the start date again?

[15Peter20]

For those on this forum who profess so readily and sincerely to really having sympathy with the plight of poor people in Thailand it is pure hypocrisy to deny the importance of the Red Shirt movement in making that plight known in the first instance.

Complete hogwash. Many of us came here long before the red shirts were even a twinkle in Thaksin's eye. Didn't need the red shirts to know and understand about the plight of the poor working classes in Thailand then, and don't need them now.

Nice - you knew of the problems of the lower classes when they weren't represented nationally and that's exactly how you'd like them to stay - without representation or political leverage, which is the only way they will ever ease the plight you and others here condescend to endorse.

Whatever you think of the leadership, it simply can't be argued that had the red shirt movement not existed, the rights of the poor would still be as much a part of mainstream public awareness as it is now.

"and that's exactly how you'd like them to stay"

I simply can't see, how you might have drawn this conclusion from what rixalex said, I suspect you're imputing attitudes which he/others don't have, perhaps to enhance your case ? Think about it.

One might cite the recent Democrat-led coalition-government for running a modified less-corrupt rice-price-support scheme, or not charging the poor 30B for permission to visit a hospital, or for extending the free education ?

I suspect that the recent rise of a Red-Shirt movement, since or in response to Thaksin's removal-from-power, would gain much more support from many TV-posters, were it not for their leadership appearing to be the willing-tools of one elite individual, and his family.

It is unfortunate that Thaksin is the driver of the bus that the red shirt movement have to ride on but then who else could have been powerful enough - and 'manipulative' enough if you like - to make the poor feel as empowered as they do compared to decades past. Lets face it, an ultra-clean messianic figure was never going to emerge from Thai politics to give the poor a fair shout.

As for the rice pledging scheme, I believe the UDD was against this policy from the start.

Edited November 3, 2012 by 15Peter20

[OzMick]

It is unfortunate that Thaksin is the driver of the bus that the red shirt movement have to ride on but then who else could have been powerful enough - and 'manipulative' enough if you like - to make the poor feel as empowered as they do compared to decades past. Lets face it, an ultra-clean messianic figure was never going to emerge from Thai politics to give the poor a fair shout.

As for the rice pledging scheme, I believe the UDD was against this policy from the start.

I have seen nothing to that effect. In fact, I have yet to see any policy, aims or goals expressed clearly by the red shirt leaders, and, one would hope, voted on by members of the movement.

If the UDD was against it, why have none of the UDD/PTP MPs stood up and denounced it?

Edited November 3, 2012 by OzMick

[mrtoad]

It is unfortunate that Thaksin is the driver of the bus that the red shirt movement have to ride on but then who else could have been powerful enough - and 'manipulative' enough if you like - to make the poor feel as empowered as they do compared to decades past. Lets face it, an ultra-clean messianic figure was never going to emerge from Thai politics to give the poor a fair shout.

As for the rice pledging scheme, I believe the UDD was against this policy from the start.

I have seen nothing to that effect. In fact, I have yet to see any policy, aims or goals expressed clearly by the red shirt leaders, and, one would hope, voted on by members of the movement.

If the UDD was against it, why have none of the UDD/PTP MPs stood up and denounced it?

Neither PTP or UDD have any true political ideology, other than getting DL back in Thailand and returning his money. They are using the return of Thaksin as the ideology, only he can sort it out, in fact the longer he is away, the more all can feed at the trough. it suits DL and all,of his cronies to be out of the country at this point. Free Beer Tomorrow.

[15Peter20]

It is unfortunate that Thaksin is the driver of the bus that the red shirt movement have to ride on but then who else could have been powerful enough - and 'manipulative' enough if you like - to make the poor feel as empowered as they do compared to decades past. Lets face it, an ultra-clean messianic figure was never going to emerge from Thai politics to give the poor a fair shout.

As for the rice pledging scheme, I believe the UDD was against this policy from the start.

I have seen nothing to that effect. In fact, I have yet to see any policy, aims or goals expressed clearly by the red shirt leaders, and, one would hope, voted on by members of the movement.

If the UDD was against it, why have none of the UDD/PTP MPs stood up and denounced it?

Yeah, just looked into this and can't find anything online about it. A bunch of quite active red shirts told me this a while ago, but nothing about it after a quick google. Shows how disorganized - or splintered at any rate - they are.

[15Peter20]

Or perhaps, that sense of disenfranchisement would had been expressed unconstrained by the machinations of the people that use the Red Shirts as a vehicle to access power. Or like Thaksin himself said, paraphrasing, "thanks for bringing me up to here, now I'll go to the top on my own".

Thaksin, the PTP and the UDD leadership have hijacked the cause of equality and fairness for the downtrodden as a means of gaining power and profit for themselves. There's no need for them to provide any meaningful progress in those areas, indeed, it's in their best interests to maintain the poor poor and ignorant and thus easily manipulated.

The different incarnations of Thaksin governments have been in power for nearly 20 years, they had plenty of time to push for real progress, yet here we are.

There's no need for them to provide any meaningful progress in those areas, indeed, it's in their best interests to maintain the poor poor and ignorant and thus easily manipulated.

Not providing meaningful progress over decades of different governments was what made it easy for Thaksin to come along and suddenly make the poorer classes feel he made a difference. He didn't have to lay out a detailed economic plan, he didn't have to guarantee anything about the future, he just had to make a bit of a difference in their real lives for once.

I would imagine if - as you say - the current administration doesn't do anything to further the situation of the poor, then they will vote for an alternative - provided it is perceived as being better, of course.

"feel he made a difference" - that the crux of it, isn't it. Thaksin hasn't actually made a difference over nearly a decade that he has effectively been in power.

But 'feeling' is what always makes the difference. At elections too. People vote on feelings. Politicians in the west know this well. I for one wouldn't want to dictate to people how they are supposed to feel.

[whybother]

"feel he made a difference" - that the crux of it, isn't it. Thaksin hasn't actually made a difference over nearly a decade that he has effectively been in power.

But 'feeling' is what always makes the difference. At elections too. People vote on feelings. Politicians in the west know this well. I for one wouldn't want to dictate to people how they are supposed to feel.

Actually doing something would be a better idea.

[thaicbr]

Don't you think the poor are the best people to ask about what Abhisit did for the poor? Or do you know better than them how they lived before and how they live now?

Actually .... NO. Mainly because the really poor do not see the out side world..or even in some cases the outside of their villages/ areas.

If the Village head man tells them 'the sun will come up at midnight, that's what they will believe (until midnight anyway. but hey they are all pissed on lawkow by then so probably will not notice)

A friend of mine asked me for some money so she could take her kid to hospital.. i said ' why, its free now' she said no its not those horrible democrats chucked out the 30baht scheme' i said yes,, because its FREE now... she didnt believe me... 30 minutes later she rang to say sorry.. and told me the village head had gone around telling everyone the 30b scheme was finished... but forgot!!!! to tell them it was free now....so yes ask the poor. They will ask the village head man,, and well. i'm sure you can see what i'm getting at

[nurofiend]

i do 'sympathize' with red shirt 'people'. there is a difference with sympathizing with the plight of those people and 'supporting everything they do and want' that not many here seem to either want or are able to see the difference between the two.

<snip>

Most posters here sympathize with the poor. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the red shirts though.

you're not sure what the poor has to do with the red shirts? really? ok.

[nurofiend]

i do 'sympathize' with red shirt 'people'. there is a difference with sympathizing with the plight of those people and 'supporting everything they do and want' that not many here seem to either want or are able to see the difference between the two.

<snip>

Most posters here sympathize with the poor. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the red shirts though.

Indeed, it's funny how phony that nonsense is about that attempted connection.

Red Shirts prove that time and again such as immediately having millions of baht in cash for bailing of their leaders while letting hundreds languish in prison unaided and betrayed.

There's no shortage of endless examples where Red Shirts have clearly shown their colors and ignored and misused the poor.

.

i clearly said i do 'sympathize' with red shirt 'people'

i know that ye seem to look at the red shirts as just the members in the hierarchy of the movement, but most of them are just normal, mostly poor, people.

[15Peter20]

"feel he made a difference" - that the crux of it, isn't it. Thaksin hasn't actually made a difference over nearly a decade that he has effectively been in power.

But 'feeling' is what always makes the difference. At elections too. People vote on feelings. Politicians in the west know this well. I for one wouldn't want to dictate to people how they are supposed to feel.

Actually doing something would be a better idea.

Well then you should advise the Dems (or any other alternative party) about how to make large swathes of the electorate feel like they are better off without doing anything. They can't seem to figure out how to do it.

Edited November 3, 2012 by 15Peter20

[rixalex]

i clearly said i do 'sympathize' with red shirt 'people'

i know that ye seem to look at the red shirts as just the members in the hierarchy of the movement, but most of them are just normal, mostly poor, people.

There are poor people up and down the country. Not all of them wear red. Some of them wear yellow. Some of them wear no colour at all. Supporting or sympathising with the poor does not mean having to support or sympathise with the red shirt movement, because despite what you may claim, supporting or sympathising with the red shirt movement is precisely what you do the majority of the time.

[Ricardo]

It is unfortunate that Thaksin is the driver of the bus that the red shirt movement have to ride on but then who else could have been powerful enough - and 'manipulative' enough if you like - to make the poor feel as empowered as they do compared to decades past. Lets face it, an ultra-clean messianic figure was never going to emerge from Thai politics to give the poor a fair shout.

As for the rice pledging scheme, I believe the UDD was against this policy from the start.

Thaksin drove that bus out of the depot over a decade ago, it now been seen to pick-up his family & cronies, and be a gravy-train rather than an omnibus for the masses.

Putting one's faith in a messianic leader, it's almost guaranteed to fail, better if the red-leaders abandoned the failed-leader and sought to establish their own platform and party, as even the PAD did.

Super-leaders perpetuate the idea that power & goodies are doled-out by some altruistic elite-figure, better to rely upon themselves, than someone who's clearly out for his own ends, and merely using the red-masses as a means to gain power.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Ricardo

[Thai at Heart]

For those on this forum who profess so readily and sincerely to really having sympathy with the plight of poor people in Thailand it is pure hypocrisy to deny the importance of the Red Shirt movement in making that plight known in the first instance.

Complete hogwash. Many of us came here long before the red shirts were even a twinkle in Thaksin's eye. Didn't need the red shirts to know and understand about the plight of the poor working classes in Thailand then, and don't need them now.

Nice - you knew of the problems of the lower classes when they weren't represented nationally and that's exactly how you'd like them to stay - without representation or political leverage, which is the only way they will ever ease the plight you and others here condescend to endorse.

Whatever you think of the leadership, it simply can't be argued that had the red shirt movement not existed, the rights of the poor would still be as much a part of mainstream public awareness as it is now.

This is a chicken and egg question.

But on this one trt came long before the formal creation of the red shirts. In fact i believe the red shirts morphed into a concept that thsksin, may not wholly like.

i.e

Something that may hold him to book for not delivering.

[siampolee]

Surely as there will be people vising a convicted bail jumping terrorist sponsoring renegade to discuss various matters related to the state and the current maladministration in the next few days while the convicted bail jumping sponsor of terrorism is in a neighbourng country, those visitors will of course be summoned to report to the police as well ?

Or are we about to witness a selective accusation process that denies the rights of one group to protest in a peaceful manner yet allows another group to openly consort with a known criminal and sponsor of terrorism ?

I like many others was under the impression that the P.T.P. slavishly followed the route of democracy, well that's what they say anyway

.Seems as if democracy is based upon the colour of the shirt one wears and also the financial rewards that are available for your (mis) deeds too.

A wonderful insight into Red Democracy is it not ?

.

Edited November 4, 2012 by siampolee

[backtonormal]

Anyone who calls for a coup d'etat and thus want democracy to be raped should go to jail. Boonlert should keep his far to big mouth shut. Former intelligence chief? Come on intelligence chiefs do not use fake bomb scanners and avoid terrorism. Boonlert is simply a dumb ass with a name card.

Another plastic soldier sponsored by the faceless people to create the enviroment for a military takeover. The buffoons must know that there can be no more peaceful coups. The next one will, if there is one will be a drawn out civil war which will take this country back 50 years. Come to think of it that was the purpose of the previous coups.

[backtonormal]

Surely as there will be people vising a convicted bail jumping terrorist sponsoring renegade to discuss various matters related to the state and the current maladministration in the next few days while the convicted bail jumping sponsor of terrorism is in a neighbourng country, those visitors will of course be summoned to report to the police as well ?

Or are we about to witness a selective accusation process that denies the rights of one group to protest in a peaceful manner yet allows another group to openly consort with a known criminal and sponsor of terrorism ?

I like many others was under the impression that the P.T.P. slavishly followed the route of democracy, well that's what they say anyway

.Seems as if democracy is based upon the colour of the shirt one wears and also the financial rewards that are available for your (mis) deeds too.

A wonderful insight into Red Democracy is it not ?

.

Is the bail jumping terrorist you refer to better known as the weasel aka Sondhi

[Thai at Heart]

Anyone who calls for a coup d'etat and thus want democracy to be raped should go to jail. Boonlert should keep his far to big mouth shut. Former intelligence chief? Come on intelligence chiefs do not use fake bomb scanners and avoid terrorism. Boonlert is simply a dumb ass with a name card.

Another plastic soldier sponsored by the faceless people to create the enviroment for a military takeover. The buffoons must know that there can be no more peaceful coups. The next one will, if there is one will be a drawn out civil war which will take this country back 50 years. Come to think of it that was the purpose of the previous coups.

Not sure about 50 years, but it won't be nice. As for the reasons for the previous coups, presumably to continually let the people realize the folly of their vote.

Very effective huh? There is no going back in the age of the amount of media and discussion available. Doesn't mean they won't try it though. Coups are not the solution, they are now just a symptom of the problems in Thailand.

I love so many people in this country, and yet, the public institutions here don't give the people the public service they deserve. Wait till they work that one out, and there will be even bigger problems.

when the people false that their political leaders are completely false, where to turn? The army had meddled in the system too many times to let anything grow into a proper democracy.

So. What's next for Thailand? Same same but not different.

[Pi Sek]

It is unfortunate that Thaksin is the driver of the bus that the red shirt movement have to ride on but then who else could have been powerful enough - and 'manipulative' enough if you like - to make the poor feel as empowered as they do compared to decades past. Lets face it, an ultra-clean messianic figure was never going to emerge from Thai politics to give the poor a fair shout.

As for the rice pledging scheme, I believe the UDD was against this policy from the start.

Thaksin drove that bus out of the depot over a decade ago, it now been seen to pick-up his family & cronies, and be a gravy-train rather than an omnibus for the masses.

Putting one's faith in a messianic leader, it's almost guaranteed to fail, better if the red-leaders abandoned the failed-leader and sought to establish their own platform and party, as even the PAD did.

Super-leaders perpetuate the idea that power & goodies are doled-out by some altruistic elite-figure, better to rely upon themselves, than someone who's clearly out for his own ends, and merely using the red-masses as a means to gain power.

Fully agree with your sentiment.

But it may just end up with a PM Jatuporn without a master!

[whybother]

Surely as there will be people vising a convicted bail jumping terrorist sponsoring renegade to discuss various matters related to the state and the current maladministration in the next few days while the convicted bail jumping sponsor of terrorism is in a neighbourng country, those visitors will of course be summoned to report to the police as well ?

Or are we about to witness a selective accusation process that denies the rights of one group to protest in a peaceful manner yet allows another group to openly consort with a known criminal and sponsor of terrorism ?

I like many others was under the impression that the P.T.P. slavishly followed the route of democracy, well that's what they say anyway

.Seems as if democracy is based upon the colour of the shirt one wears and also the financial rewards that are available for your (mis) deeds too.

A wonderful insight into Red Democracy is it not ?

.

Is the bail jumping terrorist you refer to better known as the weasel aka Sondhi

When did Sondhi jump bail?

<i>Sent from my HTC phone.</i>

[Nickymaster]

Surely as there will be people vising a convicted bail jumping terrorist sponsoring renegade to discuss various matters related to the state and the current maladministration in the next few days while the convicted bail jumping sponsor of terrorism is in a neighbourng country, those visitors will of course be summoned to report to the police as well ?

Or are we about to witness a selective accusation process that denies the rights of one group to protest in a peaceful manner yet allows another group to openly consort with a known criminal and sponsor of terrorism ?

I like many others was under the impression that the P.T.P. slavishly followed the route of democracy, well that's what they say anyway

.Seems as if democracy is based upon the colour of the shirt one wears and also the financial rewards that are available for your (mis) deeds too.

A wonderful insight into Red Democracy is it not ?

.

Is the bail jumping terrorist you refer to better known as the weasel aka Sondhi

If only you knew what you are talking about. You are trying very hard but you are missing some basic knowledge.

Sondhi jumped bail?? When??

[craigt3365]

Quite a few back and forth bickering posts have been removed from view. Please stick to the topic and please abide by forum rules. If you don't like somebody's posts, you can always put them on your ignore list.

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

[Thai at Heart]

"feel he made a difference" - that the crux of it, isn't it. Thaksin hasn't actually made a difference over nearly a decade that he has effectively been in power.

But 'feeling' is what always makes the difference. At elections too. People vote on feelings. Politicians in the west know this well. I for one wouldn't want to dictate to people how they are supposed to feel.

Actually doing something would be a better idea.

Well then you should advise the Dems (or any other alternative party) about how to make large swathes of the electorate feel like they are better off without doing anything. They can't seem to figure out how to do it.

Well, they could send Abhisit for lessons in speech making from Sondhi. Now that guy knows how to get a crowd going. Anytime I hear Abhisit in Thai or English it is like being lectured by an accountant. Marginally better than getting caught by the taxman, but that doesn't exist in Thailand.

[Buchholz]

Is the bail jumping terrorist you refer to better known as the weasel aka Sondhi

When did Sondhi jump bail?

Is the bail jumping terrorist you refer to better known as the weasel aka Sondhi

If only you knew what you are talking about. You are trying very hard but you are missing some basic knowledge.

Sondhi jumped bail?? When??

He's never jumped bail.

Just the normal going back to distortion of reality.

.

[carra]

Surely as there will be people vising a convicted bail jumping terrorist sponsoring renegade to discuss various matters related to the state and the current maladministration in the next few days while the convicted bail jumping sponsor of terrorism is in a neighbourng country, those visitors will of course be summoned to report to the police as well ?

Or are we about to witness a selective accusation process that denies the rights of one group to protest in a peaceful manner yet allows another group to openly consort with a known criminal and sponsor of terrorism ?

I like many others was under the impression that the P.T.P. slavishly followed the route of democracy, well that's what they say anyway

.Seems as if democracy is based upon the colour of the shirt one wears and also the financial rewards that are available for your (mis) deeds too.

A wonderful insight into Red Democracy is it not ?

.

When abhisist went and spoke to the terrorist leaders in the south, sorry insurgents, did he report to the police on his return?

[whybother]

When abhisist went and spoke to the terrorist leaders in the south, sorry insurgents, did he report to the police on his return?

When did Abhisit speak to the terrorist/insurgent leaders in the south?

[Buchholz]

When abhisist went and spoke to the terrorist leaders in the south, sorry insurgents, did he report to the police on his return?

When did Abhisit speak to the terrorist/insurgent leaders in the south?

and were any of them convicted fugitives?

.

[jayboy]

When abhisist went and spoke to the terrorist leaders in the south, sorry insurgents, did he report to the police on his return?

When did Abhisit speak to the terrorist/insurgent leaders in the south?

and were any of them convicted fugitives?

.

No I don't think so.The draft dodging charge is in limbo and the more serious charge of manslaughter may not come to court.He has yet to become a fugitive.I hope this answers your question.

[Buchholz]

When abhisist went and spoke to the terrorist leaders in the south, sorry insurgents, did he report to the police on his return?

When did Abhisit speak to the terrorist/insurgent leaders in the south?

and were any of them convicted fugitives?

.

No I don't think so.The draft dodging charge is in limbo and the more serious charge of manslaughter may not come to court.He has yet to become a fugitive.I hope this answers your question.

It answers the question of whether or not carra's attempted comparison fails. It does.

.