Atm - No Not The Atm As A Foreigner Giving Cash Away.

[theblether]

raise the prices, then 2% discount when paying in cash

I'm no longer in the business but that's precisely what I did. People don't realise what a collossal pita it is to accept cards, and why should I pay for your 30 days free credit?

Wild guess: because you want the 98% of my dinner spend?

Plus a tip that more than covers the remaining 2?

The worst tippers are the people that pay by credit card

The OP will probably also confirm that as a rule of thumb, the larger the party, the worse the tip?........on top of that too he will certainly confirm that the tip is split among that staff and doesn't help him pay his bills at all.

[Tywais]

The worst tippers are the people that pay by credit card

Perhaps because they have no cash on them, thus the CC.

Don't know if Thailand does this but in the US you could have the tip added to the CC.

[theDukes]

Debit cards cost the same % as a credit card. The only reason I brought the subject up was because the % has been inching up and the credit card companies have started charging a surcharge from everything from international cards to special business cards. It adds up by the end of the month. Some credit card users tip better than cash users but some do not. Some credit card users spend more but some do not. I don't have a minimum charge so I don't care if someone spends 200 Baht or 1000 Baht. It's all a % of sales. I believe the rules have changed for cards and you can offer a cash discount now. Part of a settlement of a class action suit. http://articles.lati...lement-20120714

Adding an ATM in the Night Bazaar The Duke's and maybe at The River Market might see some people getting cash for shopping. I probably will not get rid of credit cards but I would like to. I know many businesses that take only cash and they do fine. On the other hand it is a lot easier to handle a charge that goes direct to the bank than having staff handle cash.

Another thought I had was if there were an international ATM where the funds went direct to the US and you paid them out here with cash that did not have an international charge fee or a fee to change currency. There are probably plenty of rules regulating this practice as the banks make a lot on the transfers and holding your cash.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The worst tippers are the people that pay by credit card

Perhaps because they have no cash on them, thus the CC.

Don't know if Thailand does this but in the US you could have the tip added to the CC.

At several places in Thailand he receipt allows for that too. For example at the Oriental Dhara Dhevi, and... at... Dukes.

(Which I appreciate, by the way)

[bobl]

raise the prices, then 2% discount when paying in cash

I'm no longer in the business but that's precisely what I did. People don't realise what a collossal pita it is to accept cards, and why should I pay for your 30 days free credit?

Wild guess: because you want the 98% of my dinner spend?

Plus a tip that more than covers the remaining 2?

No, not really. I didn't do it for f&b because my bar&club was a mostly cash business so the impact was trivial. The hotel was a different story, I kept fairly low margins so eating the cc charges would've been a bigger issue. Oh, and I did get the local bank to put an ATM in the hotel reception.

If I was in the OP's position where the impact is more significant, I'd simply raise the prices accordingly. The regulars and cheap charlies might notice or even be offended by an extra few baht but they'd get over it. I doubt the passing trade would even notice.

I wonder how people would react if I started serving them 98% of their order. But they get upset because I want 100% of my payment. Go figure...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I wonder how people would react if I started serving them 98% of their order. But they get upset because I want 100% of my payment. Go figure...

If Duke serves me 98% of the small pizza then I would still have a lot of trouble finishing one with two people.

[TheVicar]

Debit cards cost the same % as a credit card. The only reason I brought the subject up was because the % has been inching up and the credit card companies have started charging a surcharge from everything from international cards to special business cards. It adds up by the end of the month. Some credit card users tip better than cash users but some do not. Some credit card users spend more but some do not. I don't have a minimum charge so I don't care if someone spends 200 Baht or 1000 Baht. It's all a % of sales. I believe the rules have changed for cards and you can offer a cash discount now. Part of a settlement of a class action suit. http://articles.lati...lement-20120714

Adding an ATM in the Night Bazaar The Duke's and maybe at The River Market might see some people getting cash for shopping. I probably will not get rid of credit cards but I would like to. I know many businesses that take only cash and they do fine. On the other hand it is a lot easier to handle a charge that goes direct to the bank than having staff handle cash.

Another thought I had was if there were an international ATM where the funds went direct to the US and you paid them out here with cash that did not have an international charge fee or a fee to change currency. There are probably plenty of rules regulating this practice as the banks make a lot on the transfers and holding your cash.

Thanks Mr. Dukes for that report, especially on the debit cards. How about, as has been suggested here, raising prices to cover the credit card charges but giving cash paying customers a nice discount?

[TheVicar]

raise the prices, then 2% discount when paying in cash

I'm no longer in the business but that's precisely what I did. People don't realise what a collossal pita it is to accept cards, and why should I pay for your 30 days free credit?

Wild guess: because you want the 98% of my dinner spend?

Plus a tip that more than covers the remaining 2?

No, not really. I didn't do it for f&b because my bar&club was a mostly cash business so the impact was trivial. The hotel was a different story, I kept fairly low margins so eating the cc charges would've been a bigger issue. Oh, and I did get the local bank to put an ATM in the hotel reception.

If I was in the OP's position where the impact is more significant, I'd simply raise the prices accordingly. The regulars and cheap charlies might notice or even be offended by an extra few baht but they'd get over it. I doubt the passing trade would even notice.

I wonder how people would react if I started serving them 98% of their order. But they get upset because I want 100% of my payment. Go figure...

I think that the price increase (without a corresponding discount for cash payment) would be noticed. Times are tough these days with a worldwide recession. The restaurant business is hugely competitive and there are 2 good Thai restaurants (not taking credit cards) just next to Dukes and many others within 1 kilometer. To tell you the truth, The Vicar is not a "cheap charlie" but he isn't a fool either and he knows the value of money. And he's a good cook; I can make almost everything that most Western restaurants can and do it better and with complete control over all the ingredients. For instance, I ate some pizza at "Why Not" last night (on the recommendation of a Swiss friend) and also had some pasta there. The pizza had mushrooms as an added topping (B 30 extra) and I ordered them because Chiang Mai is famous for mushrooms. What did I get? Canned, button mushrooms--essentially tasteless--something I would never use in my own cooking, in a very bland tomato sauce! My seat was a plastic, deck chair. And my bill was over B 400 too. The restaurant was less than 20% full, I would estimate which is rather good considering what I ate.

So for me to eat at a Western restaurant, especially one that takes plastic, is quite rare because I know the prices are not cheap (and often the fare is pedestrian). And I came to Thailand for Thai food, among other reasons. So given yet more disincentives, why bother with the high priced farang places? I know Dukes has a terrific reputation and I have walked by and looked at one of their restaurants, but I chose a Thai one nearby for the reasons I've given. Not that I cannot afford a B 500 meal. Mr. Dukes candor here makes me want to visit his place and have some food and drink.

I like his original idea of getting an ATM in the restaurant and doing away entirely with plastic but if he wants to keep it, then it's seems logical to raise prices to cover the transactions only and give cash paying customers a nice discount.

Good PR too! Dukes dukes it out with the banksters! Or Duke puts up his Dukes to the Giant Squid Banks!

Edited November 6, 2012 by TheVicar

[Chicog]

Debit cards cost the same % as a credit card.

Let me get this straight. You're saying if I use my Siam Commercial Debit card in the River Market you lose the same % to the bank as you would if I used my UK issued Credit Card?

Sorry but that does not sound right. I would refuse to take Debit cards if that were the case.

[theDukes]

Debit cards rung up on the machine pay out just like credit cards. I pay 2.4 % for Visa/Mastercard/JCB. It seems a little high for the swoosh of a card. No matter what they say the banks are cleaning up.

We should be figuring out how to do an ATM from the US and the UK and not paying these fees and the other associated fees. In the US there are a lot of guys that will put an ATM inyour shop or a game or pool table and split thye profit. Seems to be the natural progression over here for all the entremanures.

[hellodolly]

I still maintain atheuse of credit cards and raise all your prices 3% that would payfor the cost of new menues as well as cover the cost of the new menues. Plus it would be a longer time span before you have to raise your price again or do like many others cut the portion or quality down just to hold the price where it is.

I know you would rather shut your doors than do that. Remember 3% on a thousand baht is only 30 baht.

[Happyman108]

One of my favour restuarant in Bangkok did this.......join member (think 200 or 300 baht no expiry date) for a 10% discount if payment by cash or a 5% discount payment by plastic. I'll always pay cash to enjoy a 10% cut, and usually amont save will go to the tips.

http://www.bourbonstbkk.com

Cheers

P.S. love the nice juicy steak which I feel a little too "dry" in the Duke.....

[OriginalPoster]

Are you confusing "Credit" cards with "Debit" cards, which are usually just a payment card that deducts straight from your bank account.

And are the charges the same? I have a Siam Commercial Debit card, if I use it in your restaurant, what % would you lose compared to be using an overseas Credit or Debit card?

I think we should be told.

I also wonder about debit cards. Do they also charge a fee? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for the Dukes. Maybe a business owner/banking sector person can enlighten us. Even farangs can pretty easily get a debit card from a Thai bank. End of problem if they don't charge a fee.

I also like the idea posted by someone earlier: charge 2% extra for credit card use and/or perhaps gave a discount for cash payment.

I'm still amused by the poster who needs to pay by credit card to make his finances work each month. You are the prodigal son and also a poster boy for all that is wrong in the West! I'm sure the banksters love you.

In case you haven't noticed there are a number of people who have posted in this thread who prefer to live their lives the way they wish, credit card or whatever. It's really none of your business.

Weren't you the guy who brought up your problems on a public forum?

And your kind of "buying" is bad for everyone because it creates inflation for everyone else. Most merchants pass on the 2% charge or raise their prices to make up for the credit card fees. That means people who pay in cash pay for your bad habits.

People who are unable to manage their own finances do create problems for others. If you're so living on the edge that you need a credit card to delay payments for 30 days, what happens when a crisis hits you or your family? There's a whole thread devoted to just that issue on this website. Individuals who are unable to manage their finances and live off credit cards have a lot to do with the worldwide financial and economic crisis that the world has been struggling with for the last 5 years. It's called "living over your head." Most financial planners advise people who are on the edge to give up on their credit cards and live a simpler life.

Your just spouting BS. I use credit cards and my finances are rock solid. Would you like to audit them?

Also, the idea that the cards cause inflation seems like a stretch. If the CC issuers were upping their fees by 2% per year maybe one could say that they were causing inflation, but if it's 2% now and was 2% 10 years ago, where's the inflation coming from?

Edited November 7, 2012 by OriginalPoster

[OriginalPoster]

Don't know if Thailand does this but in the US you could have the tip added to the CC.

Yes you can. I do that routinely at Duke's.

[OriginalPoster]

Debit cards cost the same % as a credit card. The only reason I brought the subject up was because the % has been inching up and the credit card companies have started charging a surcharge from everything from international cards to special business cards. It adds up by the end of the month. Some credit card users tip better than cash users but some do not. Some credit card users spend more but some do not. I don't have a minimum charge so I don't care if someone spends 200 Baht or 1000 Baht. It's all a % of sales. I believe the rules have changed for cards and you can offer a cash discount now. Part of a settlement of a class action suit. http://articles.lati...lement-20120714

Adding an ATM in the Night Bazaar The Duke's and maybe at The River Market might see some people getting cash for shopping. I probably will not get rid of credit cards but I would like to. I know many businesses that take only cash and they do fine. On the other hand it is a lot easier to handle a charge that goes direct to the bank than having staff handle cash.

Another thought I had was if there were an international ATM where the funds went direct to the US and you paid them out here with cash that did not have an international charge fee or a fee to change currency. There are probably plenty of rules regulating this practice as the banks make a lot on the transfers and holding your cash.

You're running an upscale place by local standards. Raise your prices 5% across the board and probably no one will notice. But start getting pissy about "losing" 2% on credit cards and people probably will notice.

[TheVicar]

Not only is the 2% (or whatever) passed on the customer, there are more and more places daily adding credit cards so the "ripple effect" of plastic really does expand inflation. Plus, as at least one poster here has said outright (and I suspect more do not), he uses his plastic to help balance his monthly budget. That means, he goes to restaurants that charge higher prices in general than places that do not use plastic (like most small Thai restaurants) which in turn charge less. That too helps create inflation. It also creates indebtedness problems with lots of people living beyond their means, living on plastic. Eventually, it catches up with them. But that creates social problems for all the rest of us.

Better use cash and give everyone a nice discount!

[OriginalPoster]

Not only is the 2% (or whatever) passed on the customer, there are more and more places daily adding credit cards so the "ripple effect" of plastic really does expand inflation. Plus, as at least one poster here has said outright (and I suspect more do not), he uses his plastic to help balance his monthly budget. That means, he goes to restaurants that charge higher prices in general than places that do not use plastic (like most small Thai restaurants) which in turn charge less. That too helps create inflation. It also creates indebtedness problems with lots of people living beyond their means, living on plastic. Eventually, it catches up with them. But that creates social problems for all the rest of us.

Better use cash and give everyone a nice discount!

I understand the terms from my CC company and work then to my advantage. If you think that's unfair, too bad. I don't really give a dam_n that you think that my lifestyle isn't good for mankind.

[Chicog]

Debit cards rung up on the machine pay out just like credit cards. I pay 2.4 % for Visa/Mastercard/JCB. It seems a little high for the swoosh of a card. No matter what they say the banks are cleaning up.

We should be figuring out how to do an ATM from the US and the UK and not paying these fees and the other associated fees. In the US there are a lot of guys that will put an ATM inyour shop or a game or pool table and split thye profit. Seems to be the natural progression over here for all the entremanures.

I just want you to be specific here. I can understand an overseas Debit Card being charged the same as a Credit card if it is going through one of the big card companies.

You don't have a card machine for local Debit cards?

Is there no central Thai debit card processor?

Even here in the 1400's of the Middle East we have GCCNET and local bank machines for local debits. It's just a local payment card.

I know my SCB Debit card has a Mastercard logo on it, but I've only ever used it in SCB ATM's in Thailand.

I see no reason why SCB have any right to charge you 2.4% when the transaction does not need to leave their bank.

That's just bloody thieving. The Debit cards are there to save *them* from fraud.

[Chicog]

I have just been looking at various documents related to inter-bank payment systems under the umbrella of the BoT and I can, in fact, conclude that they are retarded.

I can only assume that payment fraud is so rife in Thailand that all the banks are afraid it will get dumped on to their systems.

Truly comical.

[bobl]

I understand the terms from my CC company and work then to my advantage. If you think that's unfair, too bad. I don't really give a dam_n that you think that my lifestyle isn't good for mankind.

I think criticising your lifestyle or finances is a little... well, cheeky and you're right to not give a dam_n. But I think you're missing the point.

Credit card companies offer you 'free' credit up to 30-ish days and 'sell' the idea like it's some sort of philanthropic gesture on their part. In fact, someone else (the guy you bought stuff from) is paying for it.

Under normal circumstances these costs ARE passed onto you in the form of higher prices, albeit marginally - which people paying cash also pay. In fact, vendors get a 'bonus' few % when people pay cash, and lose nothing when you pay with your cc. You're only hearing about this now, because Dukes brought up the subject. Most businesses aren't so open about it, they simply build credit card losses into their cost prices - and 'win' when customers pay cash.

Anybody who thinks they're getting "free" credit from a bank, needs a checkup from the neck up...

[OriginalPoster]

Anybody who thinks they're getting "free" credit from a bank, needs a checkup from the neck up...

it might not be free to society at large, but it is free to the person who every 30 days pays his bills before finance charges are due. Within the CC industry people that do that are referred to as "deadbeats" because they can;t make money off of them - they would far prefer to have customers who carry a balance at 20% interest. But do I feel ashamed to paying nothing while others work off a 20% finance charge? Certainly not. They are chumps and will get no sympathy from me. And do I care that non-chumps paying cash might in effect be paying 2% more than me if they don't use a card? Certainly not.

[hellodolly]

Anybody who thinks they're getting "free" credit from a bank, needs a checkup from the neck up...

it might not be free to society at large, but it is free to the person who every 30 days pays his bills before finance charges are due. Within the CC industry people that do that are referred to as "deadbeats" because they can;t make money off of them - they would far prefer to have customers who carry a balance at 20% interest. But do I feel ashamed to paying nothing while others work off a 20% finance charge? Certainly not. They are chumps and will get no sympathy from me. And do I care that non-chumps paying cash might in effect be paying 2% more than me if they don't use a card? Certainly not.

What he was trying to tell you is that if there was no credit cards the price you pay as well as the cash customers would go down by 2%.

Your are with in your rights to use a credit card but even though you don't see it you are paying for it. The Credit Card companies are way ahead of you. Ever month they make money off of you and you don't even know it because it is not on your statement. It is figured into your purchase price quite often And some places will charge you an extra 3% to use it.

[bobl]

Anybody who thinks they're getting "free" credit from a bank, needs a checkup from the neck up...

it might not be free to society at large, but it is free to the person who every 30 days pays his bills before finance charges are due. Within the CC industry people that do that are referred to as "deadbeats" because they can;t make money off of them - they would far prefer to have customers who carry a balance at 20% interest. But do I feel ashamed to paying nothing while others work off a 20% finance charge? Certainly not. They are chumps and will get no sympathy from me. And do I care that non-chumps paying cash might in effect be paying 2% more than me if they don't use a card? Certainly not.

They're not called "deadbeats" because they "can't make money off them". Good God man, wake up and smell the coffee. They're deadbeats because they're not DOUBLE DIPPING off them - i.e. getting money from the vendor AND the victim customer. They're still making money off the vendors.

Let's do the math. You sell something for $100. $2.40 of that goes to the credit card company. Your original margin was 30% so you stood to make a profit of $23. But the cc company have taken $2.40 - let's call it 10%. CC company basically "owns" 10% of your business!

Would you give me 10% of your business? Sure you would, if I bought it from you. Would you give me 10% FREE?

Banking: Biggest legalised fraud since... Ever.

[elektrified]

Anybody who thinks they're getting "free" credit from a bank, needs a checkup from the neck up...

I use American Express. Payment due in full in 30 days. How is it costing me or anyone else anything? (Other than the annual membership fee I pay which includes countless 'privileges' as AMEX refers to them).

[TheVicar]

Anybody who thinks they're getting "free" credit from a bank, needs a checkup from the neck up...

I use American Express. Payment due in full in 30 days. How is it costing me or anyone else anything? (Other than the annual membership fee I pay which includes countless 'privileges' as AMEX refers to them).

1. You ARE paying their annual membership fee (which as I recall is rather hefty; about $150 or so? and more depending on the kind of card you have; the Platinum fee is at least $450 and that isn't chicken feed ) and what are you getting in return but sham "awards" and "points"? I too had one of these cards, their platinum one as I recall, until I dumped it. They are also getting information about your buying habits and are likely making money off of you by selling information to various web sites and other sources. Look closely at their conditions and terms and you will see this.

2, It, and other credit cards, create inflation because of charges passed on, hidden charges and costs, and because customers who now feel empowered with their plastic, will buy things from merchants who charge higher prices just because those merchants also feature plastic. People on plastic are as hooked as people on caffeine.

Meanwhile, Wikipedia has some useful info on plastic:

When a consumer makes a purchase using a credit or charge card, a small portion of the price is paid as a fee (known as the merchant discount), with the merchant keeping the remainder. There are typically three parties who split this fee amongst themselves:

1. Acquiring bank: the bank which processes credit card transactions for a merchant, including crediting the merchant's account for the value charged to a credit card less all fees.
   
2. Issuing bank: the bank which issues the consumer's credit card. This is the bank a consumer is responsible for repaying after making a credit card purchase. The issuer's share of the merchant discount is known as the interchange fee.
   
3. Network: the link between acquiring banks and issuing banks. These banks have relationships with a network, rather than with each other, for fulfilling card purchases. This allows a card issued by a community bank in Peru to be used at a shop in South Africa, for instance, without requiring the banks to have a direct relationship with each other. The two largest networks in the world are Visa and MasterCard.
   

The average merchant discount in the United States is 1.9%. Of this, approximately 0.1% goes to the acquirer, 1.7% to the issuer, and 0.09% to the network.

*****

Lastly, Mr. Elektrified claims he pays his bills off every 30 days but I wonder if there have been occasions when he hasn't? If you don't, you pay a very hefty fee (something like 20% interest plus bogus "late" fees). This is why the banks really want people hooked on their plastic because they know a large percentage of people will eventually be forced into a situation where they cannot pay off their entire bill. It also happens with people on American Express. If you don't eventually pay all for AE, your credit rating will suffer. So they've got you.

NOTE: The Canadian fee for an AMEX Platinum recently increased to $699! Also, AMEX charges higher "merchant" fees than Visa. These are the kind of "hidden fees" I"m talking about and which are passed on to the public.

Edited November 8, 2012 by TheVicar

[TheVicar]

More on why AMEX is not "Free" as some here claim:

Amex paying $112M in late-fee settlements

By MARCY GORDON | Associated Press – Mon, Oct 1, 2012 12:09 PM EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — American Express is paying $112 million in refunds and fines to settle regulators' accusations that it charged unlawful late fees and deceived customers to pressure them to pay off old debts or buy extra credit card services.

The company agreed to the settlements announced Monday by four federal agencies, including the Federal Reserve and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and Utah regulators.

American Express is refunding $85 million to about 250,000 customers and is paying $27.5 million in civil fines.

The agencies said American Express violated federal laws prohibiting deceptive practices by using false statements to get customers to settle old debts. The regulators say that included falsely telling customers that if they agreed to settlements to partially pay off their debts, the remaining balance would be forgiven.

The director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Richard Cordray, said in a statement that the company violated consumer-protection laws "at all stages of the game — from the moment a consumer shopped for a card to the moment the consumer got a phone call about long overdue debt."

American Express also charged late fees on some credit cards based on a percentage of the debt owed, a violation of a 2009 law prohibiting certain credit card practices, the regulators said.

They said customers were sometimes led to believe they would get $300 as well as bonus points if they signed up for Amex's "Blue Sky" credit card program. Customers who met the conditions didn't receive the promised $300, according to the agencies.

In addition, they said the company:

—Unlawfully discriminated against consumers applying for new card accounts on the basis of age.

—Failed to report customer disputes over billing to the consumer-credit reporting agencies.

New York-based American Express also agreed to end the practices and to hire independent auditors to ensure the company's compliance with consumer-protection laws.

Also reaching settlements with the company were the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. and the U.S. Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, a Treasury Department agency that regulates national banks.

NOTE BY THE VICAR: You can see why the banks so opposed the set up of this consumer unit, championed by Harvard Law School Prof. and now Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts! As another poster wisely said above, if you think you are getting something "free' from the banks, you need your head examined.

Edited November 8, 2012 by TheVicar

[hml367]

Anybody who thinks they're getting "free" credit from a bank, needs a checkup from the neck up...

I use American Express. Payment due in full in 30 days. How is it costing me or anyone else anything? (Other than the annual membership fee I pay which includes countless 'privileges' as AMEX refers to them).

1. You ARE paying their annual membership fee (which as I recall is rather hefty; about $150 or so? and more depending on the kind of card you have; the Platinum fee is at least $450 and that isn't chicken feed ) and what are you getting in return but sham "awards" and "points"? I too had one of these cards, their platinum one as I recall, until I dumped it. They are also getting information about your buying habits and are likely making money off of you by selling information to various web sites and other sources. Look closely at their conditions and terms and you will see this.

2, It, and other credit cards, create inflation because of charges passed on, hidden charges and costs, and because customers who now feel empowered with their plastic, will buy things from merchants who charge higher prices just because those merchants also feature plastic. People on plastic are as hooked as people on caffeine.

Meanwhile, Wikipedia has some useful info on plastic:

When a consumer makes a purchase using a credit or charge card, a small portion of the price is paid as a fee (known as the merchant discount), with the merchant keeping the remainder. There are typically three parties who split this fee amongst themselves:

1. Acquiring bank: the bank which processes credit card transactions for a merchant, including crediting the merchant's account for the value charged to a credit card less all fees.
   
2. Issuing bank: the bank which issues the consumer's credit card. This is the bank a consumer is responsible for repaying after making a credit card purchase. The issuer's share of the merchant discount is known as the interchange fee.
   
3. Network: the link between acquiring banks and issuing banks. These banks have relationships with a network, rather than with each other, for fulfilling card purchases. This allows a card issued by a community bank in Peru to be used at a shop in South Africa, for instance, without requiring the banks to have a direct relationship with each other. The two largest networks in the world are Visa and MasterCard.
   

The average merchant discount in the United States is 1.9%. Of this, approximately 0.1% goes to the acquirer, 1.7% to the issuer, and 0.09% to the network.

*****

Lastly, Mr. Elektrified claims he pays his bills off every 30 days but I wonder if there have been occasions when he hasn't? If you don't, you pay a very hefty fee (something like 20% interest plus bogus "late" fees). This is why the banks really want people hooked on their plastic because they know a large percentage of people will eventually be forced into a situation where they cannot pay off their entire bill. It also happens with people on American Express. If you don't eventually pay all for AE, your credit rating will suffer. So they've got you.

NOTE: The Canadian fee for an AMEX Platinum recently increased to $699! Also, AMEX charges higher "merchant" fees than Visa.

Is this your personal observations/research? Or have you gotten this from a study/research somewhere?

MSPain

Edited November 8, 2012 by hml367

[turboturtle]

Who needs to use a credit card, who was the idiot who masterminded this concept of scamming people with high interest rates? Just get a debit and spend what you have!

[harrry]

Some of your customers like sauce with their meal some do not. It adds to the cost. Do you send them across to the supermarket? Penny pinching like this spoils the satisfied feeling I get after a good meal.

[bobl]

I use American Express. Payment due in full in 30 days. How is it costing me or anyone else anything? (Other than the annual membership fee I pay which includes countless 'privileges' as AMEX refers to them).

You said it yourself. You pay an annual 'fee' for this 'service'. That's where it's costing you. Vendor prices, obviously, reflect their costs. Their costs include their payments to middle-men. Amex is a middle man. Retail price includes these costs. That's where it's costing "anyone else" (including, by the way, you again).

Edited November 8, 2012 by bobl