How Long Did It Take You To Become Fluent?

[CaptHaddock]

Since we'll need a definition of fluency, we could use: able to understand 80% to 90% of Thai news broadcast, read and write Thai, plus able to have a conversation beyond the subject of dinner up to the level of, let's say, Thai politics.

Or, you can provide your own definition of fluency in Thai.

Also, how much formal study did you have?

[kriswillems]

I think most people that intensively study can reach the level you described within 2 years, some people even manage to reach that level within a year.

I think for most of us it will take forever to reach the level of a native speaker. The farang I personally know and that are as fluent as a Thai all grew up here.

[transam]

Give me 100 years and l will still only remember ''Check Bin'' but nothing else.

[CaptHaddock]

I think most people that intensively study can reach the level you described within 2 years, some people even manage to reach that level within a year.

I think for most of us it will take forever to reach the level of a native speaker. The farang I personally know and that are as fluent as a Thai all grew up here.

Interesting. As an adult learner I don't expect to reach the level of a native speaker, especially with respect to pronunciation. It must be far too late to expect to lose an accent.

Are you fluent?

[NoshowJones]

I think most people that intensively study can reach the level you described within 2 years, some people even manage to reach that level within a year.

I think for most of us it will take forever to reach the level of a native speaker. The farang I personally know and that are as fluent as a Thai all grew up here.

Interesting. As an adult learner I don't expect to reach the level of a native speaker, especially with respect to pronunciation. It must be far too late to expect to lose an accent.

Are you fluent?

If you can hold a telephone conversation with a Thai who is unknown to you, then you are fluent in the Thai language.

[Synastry]

My wife has taught me a few hundred words over the last three years and I only can put a few basic sentences together. Recognising a few Thai words I know, I still cannot understand the total context of a Thai conversation. Writing pasa Thai, I use the Thai2English program (which is the best I have found), I am still getting the words the wrong way around.

[dapsolapsalai]

"Since we'll need a definition of fluency, we could use: able to understand 80% to 90% of Thai news broadcast, read and write Thai, plus able to have a conversation beyond the subject of dinner up to the level of, let's say, Thai politics.

"

Interesting definition, Thai news broadcasts are spoken very quickly, even for spoken Thai, but there is also a visual transmission about the news story, so you can understand the gist of what is being said with no Thai knowledge whatsoever. I wouldn't use that as a barometer of fluency, I am also unable to quickly quantify the percentage of how much of a news story I have understood.

When you say write Thai, do you mean write Thai with absolutely no spelling mistakes and no missing tone marks, that's going to take me some time and even then I will never be as proficient as I am with the English language. I wouldn't really class that as fluency either.

I can have a conversation beyond the subject of dinner but am not that interested in Thai politics, people tend to speak about what they are interested in so again this is not a particularly useful definition of fluency.

No I can't provide my own definition of fluency. Whenever I hear the term used (in relation to speaking Thai) is it used VERY subjectively. I have heard some people claim they are fluent when they are not even advanced.

A lot of Thais I have met mumble when they speak, when I can understand a mumbling Thai without asking them to repeat what they have said then maybe I'm fluent although I have difficulty understanding mumbling native English speakers.

10 months studying Thai with daily listening and speaking exercises and flash cards and chatting on Facebook in Thai, 8 months of those 10 living here talking to people.

Edited November 4, 2012 by dapsolapsalai

[HeavyDrinker]

"Fluent" is one of the most overused terms when it comes to dealing with languages, and the Thai language is no exception.

The sad thing is that most people who apply the adjective to a non native speaker probably wouldn't know "fluent Thai" if it bit them on the arse.

Since we'll need a definition of fluency, we could use: able to understand 80% to 90% of Thai news broadcast, read and write Thai, plus able to have a conversation beyond the subject of dinner up to the level of, let's say, Thai politics.

I would certainly agree the above as a general definition of fluency however I wouldn't just restrict it to the news or politics.

For me one of the acid tests would be to switch on one of those weekday morning chat show things with 3-4 dolly birds all rattling on at the same time and if you can pick up that right away then you're well away...

I'm always sceptical when I hear of a Westerner who is described as "fluent" in Thai and in 20 years here, bar a handful of very rare exceptions, have usually found it to be utter nonsense often to the horror or embarrassment of the person involved.

[dapsolapsalai]

If you can hold a telephone conversation with a Thai who is unknown to you, then you are fluent in the Thai language.

well I have tried this and so far it is impossible

[CaptHaddock]

"Since we'll need a definition of fluency, we could use: able to understand 80% to 90% of Thai news broadcast, read and write Thai, plus able to have a conversation beyond the subject of dinner up to the level of, let's say, Thai politics.

"

Interesting definition, Thai news broadcasts are spoken very quickly, even for spoken Thai, but there is also a visual transmission about the news story, so you can understand the gist of what is being said with no Thai knowledge whatsoever. I wouldn't use that as a barometer of fluency, I am also unable to quickly quantify the percentage of how much of a news story I have understood.

When you say write Thai, do you mean write Thai with absolutely no spelling mistakes and no missing tone marks, that's going to take me some time and even then I will never be as proficient as I am with the English language. I wouldn't really class that as fluency either.

I can have a conversation beyond the subject of dinner but am not that interested in Thai politics, people tend to speak about what they are interested in so again this is not a particularly useful definition of fluency.

No I can't provide my own definition of fluency. Whenever I hear the term used (in relation to speaking Thai) is it used VERY subjectively. I have heard some people claim they are fluent when they are not even advanced.

A lot of Thais I have met mumble when they speak, when I can understand a mumbling Thai without asking them to repeat what they have said then maybe I'm fluent although I have difficulty understanding mumbling native English speakers.

10 months studying Thai with daily listening and speaking exercises and flash cards and chatting on Facebook in Thai, 8 months of those 10 living here talking to people.

That was just an ad hoc notion of fluency and not something I would completely hang my hat on. But fluency as a goal can be distinguished from perfection. I work on Thai spelling daily with a goal of getting it correct, but native speakers in both Thai and English make certainly make spelling mistakes. So, perfection in spelling can't be a requirement for fluency. I mentioned Thai politics just as an example of a level of complexity in conversation to distinguish between those who can use the language effectively from those who can merely order food in a restaurant, not to suggest that an interest in Thai politics is a prerequisite for fluency per se.

Some expats in Thailand flatter themselves on their competence in Thai by claiming a fluency they are far from, but those of us who know better can still have a conversation on the subject. Yes, it's true that the Thais mumble, but Americans do, too. Even native speakers sometimes have recourse to correction dialogues to disambiguate the mumbling. So, I would not want to set the bar impossibly high.

Anyway, good luck with your study.

[Murf]

I can hold a conversation on the phone with an unknown Thai, but then i do not consider myself fluent.

Fluent is being able to talk about any and every subject that comes up and i cannot... I can however use language that it used in everyday life.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^, agree with the above, I also wouldnt consider myself fluent.

I know there are whole swathes of the language I have never bothered learning.

Religion, I am not a religious person and have no wish to hold conversations on the meaning of life.

Legal terminology, apart from a few basic words, if the time comes I will consult a Thai legal professional.

Medical terminology, same as above, every Thai doctor I have spoken to has had better English than my Thai, I couldnt tell you the Thai for, ingrown toenail.

Engineering terminology, apart from a few phrases relating to the car or simple household work my Thai sucks, I couldnt tell you the Thai for crossheaded screwdriver.

Thai folklore and idioms is another area I lack.

As for writing Thai, the only Thai I have written in the last 5 years has been my name and address, everything else I write in English.

Reading, these days confined to road signs, signs in supermarkets, special offers etc,Thai menus in non tourist areas, internet sites such as DD Property, buses and the routes the bus takes, signs in buildings such as no entry, push, pull or slide written on doors.

I consider it an ongoing and continuous project, just when you think you have cracked the reading, along comes SMS and text talk, look at the spellings of words that appear on the television on the bottom of the screen, throw in teen slang, words my mrs doesnt even know.

The day I can listen to two conversations at the same time I will feel I have made progress.

[dapsolapsalai]

Fluent is being able to talk about any and every subject that comes up

Are you sure? I know a lot of native English speakers who cannot talk about any and every subject that may come up in English yet they could be described as fluent in their native language.

[transam]

Fluent is being able to talk about any and every subject that comes up

Are you sure? I know a lot of native English speakers who cannot talk about any and every subject that may come up in English yet they could be described as fluent in their native language.

I failed English, and l am English.

[Naam]

Fluent is being able to talk about any and every subject that comes up

Are you sure? I know a lot of native English speakers who cannot talk about any and every subject that may come up in English yet they could be described as fluent in their native language.

I failed English, and l am English.

so what? you can fine tune ancient SU carburators (keep cool American friends! that's one of the various Commonwealth spellings). that high-tech art compensates for any language shortcomings

[Naam]

39 years ago i became fluent in Thai whilst having a Singapore Sling in a BKK bar learning to count from one to ten. the teaching lady behind the bar told me that i'm a natural talent and suggested "i go loom you and teach number much more?"

[Murf]

Did you get up to the number 69?

[HeavyDrinker]

Odd how none of the chaps on the main forum who claim to be "fluent" in Thai haven't posted here....

[CaptHaddock]

Give me 100 years and l will still only remember ''Check Bin'' but nothing else.

ทำไมคนที่ไม่มีความสามารถแบบนี้อวดความไม่รู้ เพราะอะไรไม่อ่ายเอย คิดว่าการแอบเป็นคนขี้เกียจดีกว่า

Edited November 9, 2012 by CaptHaddock

[dapsolapsalai]

ทำไมคนที่ไม่มีความสามารถแบบนี้อวดความไม่รู้ เพราะอะไรไม่อ่ายเอย คิดว่าการแอบเป็นคนขี้เกียจดีกว่า

ไม่ขี้เกียจเลยครับ ภาษาไทยยากมาก มีความสามารถแบบนี้นิดหน่อยครับ จำเป็นต้องคุยกับเฟซบุ๊กทุกวันครับ อาจจะเจอแฟนใหม่ด้วยครับ

[HeavyDrinker]

ขี้เกียจ ขี้เมาเซ่นกันแน่นอน

[Groongthep]

If you can hold a telephone conversation with a Thai who is unknown to you, then you are fluent in the Thai language.

I can't agree with this. There are 4 aspects to fluency, 1.) Speaking and being understood. 2.) Listening and understanding what you're hearing. 3.) Reading, and 4.) Writing coherently. Telephone conversations include only 2 of those 4 skills.

[NoshowJones]

If you can hold a telephone conversation with a Thai who is unknown to you, then you are fluent in the Thai language.

I can't agree with this. There are 4 aspects to fluency, 1.) Speaking and being understood. 2.) Listening and understanding what you're hearing. 3.) Reading, and 4.) Writing coherently. Telephone conversations include only 2 of those 4 skills.

You are right, by when I said fluent, I did not mean writing and reading, I only meant speaking and obviously listening, so I will rephrase it, being fluent in speaking Thai means being able to hold a telephone conversation with a Thai who is unknown to you.

[HeavyDrinker]

being fluent in speaking Thai means being able to hold a telephone conversation with a Thai who is unknown to you.

I do this on a regular basis but I consider myself far from fluent.

[happysanook]

I can hold a conversation on the phone with an unknown Thai, but then i do not consider myself fluent.

Fluent is being able to talk about any and every subject that comes up and i cannot... I can however use language that it used in everyday life.

By Merriam definition, fluency = "capable of using a language easily and accurately"

After 6 years in Thailand, my sound is very good, but my vocabulary and grammar are sadly lacking. I've not worked very hard at learning Thai. Just what I've picked up over the years. I'd guess that anyone of average intelligence working moderately at studying and learning the language would be at my level within a year. I'd say at least 2 years to become moderately fluent, and 3-5 to be at 80-90% of a native speaker.

Edited November 12, 2012 by happysanook

[coma]

๕ ปี

[coma]

39 years ago i became fluent in Thai whilst having a Singapore Sling in a BKK bar learning to count from one to ten. the teaching lady behind the bar told me that i'm a natural talent and suggested "i go loom you and teach number much more?"

Classic !

[CaptHaddock]

๕ ปี

เรียนที่โรงเรียนนานเท่าไหร่

[manarak]

39 years ago i became fluent in Thai whilst having a Singapore Sling in a BKK bar learning to count from one to ten. the teaching lady behind the bar told me that i'm a natural talent and suggested "i go loom you and teach number much more?"

hihihi

were you "pushing fast numbers" (excuse the germanism) ?

Edited November 13, 2012 by manarak

[coma]

๕ ปี

เรียนที่โรงเรียนนานเท่าไหร่

๕ ปี ครับ แล้วช่วงเวลา ๕ ปีนั้น ผมก็อยู่ในเมืองไทยตลอดเวลา

นี้เป็นจุดสำคัญมากนะครับ ที่ได้เรียนและอยู่ในประเทศไทยขณะเดียวกัน เพราะว่าหลังจากเรียนเสร็จแล้ว ก็ต้องออกจากห้องเรียนแล้วก็ได้ใช้แต่ภาษาไทยเท่านั้นเอง ทำให้นักศึกษาได้เรียนรู้ และ พูด อ่าน และเขียนภาษาไทยได้อย่างคล่อง และมีประสิทธภาพเร็วที่สุด

นี้คือความคิดเห็นของตัวเองเท่านั้นนะครับ คุณ หรอคนอื่น ๆ อาจจะมีความคิดเห็นหรือประสบการณ์ที่แตกต่างกันก็ได้ครับ