International Criminal Court's Jurisdiction Being Reviewed: Thailand

[webfact]

ICC'S jurisdiction 'being reviewed'

NUNTIDA PUANGTHONG

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- The Foreign Ministry will first launch a review before deciding on whether an international inquiry into the 2010 political violence should be allowed.

The first step for the review would be to check if a committee, set up in 2000 to check the mandate of the International Criminal Court, is still in operation, Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul said yesterday.

"If getting the ICC involved helps strengthen the justice system in Thailand, then I think it will be a good thing," he said.

Surapong also reminded government critics to wait for the outcome of the review instead of hastily deciding to oppose plans to bring in the ICC.

He said that after Thailand became party to the Rome Statute, which sets out the ICC's jurisdiction and functions, it formed a committee to vet the court's provisions and pave the way to ratification.

The minister went on to say that the committee should examine the pros and cons of consenting to the ICC's jurisdiction on a one-off basis in order to ensure justice for victims of the bloodshed.

This committee is comprised of representatives from the Treaties and Legal Affairs Department, the Council of State, the Office of the Attorney General and the Judge Advocate Department.

Surapong said he had spoken to ICC prosecutor Fatou Bensouda while she was in Bangkok for a meeting last week. He said he had asked her about a complaint the red shirts submitted to the court in June seeking an ICC inquiry into the political strife.

He said that Bensouda responded by saying that the ICC could only open the inquiry if Thailand consented to it and granted jurisdiction to the ICC as per the Rome Statute.

The minister said it would be necessary for Thailand to grant its consent because it has yet to ratify the statute. He also quoted Bensouda as saying that even if the consent was granted, it would not be seen as an international treaty and could be revoked at any time.

Also, Bensouda said that should the ICC be allowed to look into the 2010 violence, its inquiry would likely fall under the category of crimes against humanity.

Bensouda also said that she would have to check the evidence and circumstances to see if the killings were massive and systematic before classifying the case.

-- The Nation 2012-11-08

[edwinchester]

One hopes that to prove impartiality they will also ask the ICC to investigate the thousands killed during Taksins war on drugs.

[mrtoad]

Well, they have a few investigations then DL's War on Drugs, Tak Bae and a whole host of other HR abuses under Thaksin led governments.

[otherstuff1957]

The minister went on to say that the committee should examine the pros and cons of consenting to the ICC's jurisdiction on a one-off basis in order to ensure justice for victims of the bloodshed.

He also quoted Bensouda as saying that even if the consent was granted, it would not be seen as an international treaty and could be revoked at any time.

So, according to this article, they can pick and choose which incidents will be investigated and which will not. Don't expect Bak Thai or the war on drugs to be referred to them anytime soon!

[whatsupdoc]

"Bensouda also said that she would have to check the evidence and circumstances to see if the killings were massive and systematic before classifying the case."

It would appear to me that the ICC is never going to take up the case (and rightly so). This will probably backfire at the Red shirts.

[MunterHunter]

The minister went on to say that the committee should examine the pros and cons of consenting to the ICC's jurisdiction on a one-off basis in order to ensure justice for victims of the bloodshed.

He also quoted Bensouda as saying that even if the consent was granted, it would not be seen as an international treaty and could be revoked at any time.

So, according to this article, they can pick and choose which incidents will be investigated and which will not. Don't expect Bak Thai or the war on drugs to be referred to them anytime soon!

Can anyone say "Political Tool"

Wonder how the ICC will feel about that, once it realizes its being played...

[bigbamboo]

Thais have the same attitude to courts of law as they do with red traffic lights. They only take any notice when it suits them.

[tomross46]

Well, they have a few investigations then DL's War on Drugs, Tak Bae and a whole host of other HR abuses under Thaksin led governments.

I agree, they could also look into the other cases of abuse of power.

[siampolee]

An interesting road to take, the twist's and turns need to looked at carefully, that road once taken could lead back to Thaksin and his involvement in matters that could attract the attention of the I.C.C.

Be careful what you wish for Surapong Towichukchaikul,your puppet master may well live to regret the consequences of your actions,as you may well too as your dividend payouts drop or disappear altogether.

I.C.C..justice is not a "Pick and Mix Sweet-shop'' and as selective as the Thai system of justice.

[Nickymaster]

An interesting road to take, the twist's and turns need to looked at carefully, that road once taken could lead back to Thaksin and his involvement in matters that could attract the attention of the I.C.C.

Be careful what you wish for Surapong Towichukchaikul,your puppet master may well live to regret the consequences of your actions,as you may well too as your dividend payouts drop or disappear altogether.

I.C.C..justice is not a "Pick and Mix Sweet-shop'' and as selective as the Thai system of justice.

Agree. It shows how far PT has to go to satisfy the Reds. They are using the ICC as a political tool. PLEASE PT, just become a signatory and stop all the threats. PLEASE open this country for criminal investigation.

"The minister went on to say that the committee should examine the pros and cons of consenting to the ICC's jurisdiction on a one-off basis in order to ensure justice for victims of the bloodshed."

What a coward! one-off basis! That says it all.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Nickymaster

[Katipo]

I can't see this happening. Heaven forbid if the ICC came in and actually exposed the truth as opposed to the garbage both sides here would have us believe.

[Narratio]

I rather liked this;

The first step for the review would be to check if a committee, set up in 2000 to check the mandate of the International Criminal Court, is still in operation

They set up a committee 12 years ago and do not know if it's still having meetings, billing for offices or transportation, secretarial vacations, coffee and donuts, note pads...

[Arkady]

This is just another Amsterdam publicity stunt to impress the red shirt masses who don't know any better. There is not a snow ball's chance in Hell of the ICC ever accepting this case. It is totally outwith their remit and the last thing they want to do is to encourage country's like Thailand that have a functioning justice system (albeit a rather low quality one) to cherry pick cases against political opponents, while refusing to ratify the Treaty of Rome and submit generally to ICC authority. That would do enormous damage to the ICC's reputation and its ability to expand its remit where it's really needed. Fatou Bensouda is having her words skewed and quoted out of context. She has clearly been pushed to comment on what is technically possible and has done so but her comments are being misinterpreted to sound as if the ICC is interested in pursuing this case which I am sure it is not.

[Arkady]

Thailand's poor record with global judicial institutions is well known and I am sure the ICC is extremely wary of the country. It repudiated its recognition of the World Court after it lost the Pra Viharn case in the 60s. If we can't win, we will spit out the dummy.

[whybother]

"Bensouda also said that she would have to check the evidence and circumstances to see if the killings were massive and systematic before classifying the case."

It would appear to me that the ICC is never going to take up the case (and rightly so). This will probably backfire at the Red shirts.

Given that there were deaths of about 70 protesters over 6 weeks in many different situations ... the killings were neither massive or systematic.

[alanferdi]

"If getting the ICC involved helps strengthen the justice system in Thailand, then I think it will be a good thing," NOW WHAT IS THAT SENTENCE SUPPOSED TO MEAN? I suppose if the ICC gets involved it will weaken the process in hiding or disclosing some people that might embrace the judicial system... Lose face....that is not strengthening the system. So why bother.....Simply ignore the ICC after the statement implies that all the war criminals that they bought to justice were not at all strengthening the legal system.... Amazing Thailand!!!! Keep it up

[Chupup]

This isa a can of worms they should leave alone as it might just backfire

[hellodolly]

This is just another Amsterdam publicity stunt to impress the red shirt masses who don't know any better. There is not a snow ball's chance in Hell of the ICC ever accepting this case. It is totally outwith their remit and the last thing they want to do is to encourage country's like Thailand that have a functioning justice system (albeit a rather low quality one) to cherry pick cases against political opponents, while refusing to ratify the Treaty of Rome and submit generally to ICC authority. That would do enormous damage to the ICC's reputation and its ability to expand its remit where it's really needed. Fatou Bensouda is having her words skewed and quoted out of context. She has clearly been pushed to comment on what is technically possible and has done so but her comments are being misinterpreted to sound as if the ICC is interested in pursuing this case which I am sure it is not.

Kind of shows how dumb Thaksin and his clone following government think the red shirts are. Problem is they are probably rite.

[Crushdepth]

Bring it on. Thaksin's government leads the body count by approximately 34 : 1.

Let's see if this was a good idea or not.

[Crushdepth]

The minister went on to say that the committee should examine the pros and cons of consenting to the ICC's jurisdiction on a one-off basis in order to ensure justice for victims of the bloodshed.

He also quoted Bensouda as saying that even if the consent was granted, it would not be seen as an international treaty and could be revoked at any time.

So, according to this article, they can pick and choose which incidents will be investigated and which will not. Don't expect Bak Thai or the war on drugs to be referred to them anytime soon!

Can anyone say "Political Tool"

Wonder how the ICC will feel about that, once it realizes its being played...

They aren't that stupid. And unlike the present cabinet, none of them are family members of the criminal fugitive in absentia.

[kimamey]

One hopes that to prove impartiality they will also ask the ICC to investigate the thousands killed during Taksins war on drugs.

I think until they ratify the Rome Treaty it will only apply to Abhisit due to his dual nationality. He's not as British as Queen Elizabeth as claimed by Robert Amsterdam who must be one crap laywer.

[backtonormal]

We're all in a Lather now boys. Get Abhisit to the Hague because the least he will do is squeal and rat out those above him who ordered the massacre. Bring it on!!!!

[rubl]

He said that Bensouda responded by saying that the ICC could only open the inquiry if Thailand consented to it and granted jurisdiction to the ICC as per the Rome Statute.

I'm shocked, truly! Reading Robert A. c.s. reports I was under the impression that the ICC had the reports, the first of which was submitted on the 31st of January, 2011, under consideration, or even active consideration.

FYI: '"Under consideration" means we've lost the file. "Under active consideration" means we're trying to find it!"

[yoshiwara]

We're all in a Lather now boys. Get Abhisit to the Hague because the least he will do is squeal and rat out those above him who ordered the massacre. Bring it on!!!!

Exhibit Number 1 can be Arisman's instructions on video to burn down Bangkok. That can sit side by side with the red ;'witnesses' telling us how the demonstration was just a peaceful rally.

Exhibit number 2 can be photos and videos of armed blackshirts mingling with the reds.

Exhibit number 3 can be the money trail from Thaksin.

And so on........................

[Thai at Heart]

This is just another Amsterdam publicity stunt to impress the red shirt masses who don't know any better. There is not a snow ball's chance in Hell of the ICC ever accepting this case. It is totally outwith their remit and the last thing they want to do is to encourage country's like Thailand that have a functioning justice system (albeit a rather low quality one) to cherry pick cases against political opponents, while refusing to ratify the Treaty of Rome and submit generally to ICC authority. That would do enormous damage to the ICC's reputation and its ability to expand its remit where it's really needed. Fatou Bensouda is having her words skewed and quoted out of context. She has clearly been pushed to comment on what is technically possible and has done so but her comments are being misinterpreted to sound as if the ICC is interested in pursuing this case which I am sure it is not.

This is the PTP's; Kasit and Interpol moment.

[indyuk]

The only issue that matters is when will the cause of lives lost during the Red Shirt Demonstration be properly investigated.

[rubl]

The only issue that matters is when will the cause of lives lost during the Red Shirt Demonstration be properly investigated.

Most likely answer: not in your lifetime I'm afraid

Mind you, you might want to elaborate a bit on 'cause'. Cause as in how did it come to this? Cause as in 'what killed those 92 people?

[indyuk]

We're all in a Lather now boys. Get Abhisit to the Hague because the least he will do is squeal and rat out those above him who ordered the massacre. Bring it on!!!!

Exhibit Number 1 can be Arisman's instructions on video to burn down Bangkok. That can sit side by side with the red ;'witnesses' telling us how the demonstration was just a peaceful rally.

Exhibit number 2 can be photos and videos of armed blackshirts mingling with the reds.

Exhibit number 3 can be the money trail from Thaksin.

And so on........................

You don't get it do you. Who killed the 91 Thai citizens? Must the murderers always get off scot free?

[whybother]

We're all in a Lather now boys. Get Abhisit to the Hague because the least he will do is squeal and rat out those above him who ordered the massacre. Bring it on!!!!

Exhibit Number 1 can be Arisman's instructions on video to burn down Bangkok. That can sit side by side with the red ;'witnesses' telling us how the demonstration was just a peaceful rally.

Exhibit number 2 can be photos and videos of armed blackshirts mingling with the reds.

Exhibit number 3 can be the money trail from Thaksin.

And so on........................

You don't get it do you. Who killed the 91 Thai citizens? Must the murderers always get off scot free?

Well, if PTP's "reconciliation" happens, they will.

[hellodolly]

The only issue that matters is when will the cause of lives lost during the Red Shirt Demonstration be properly investigated.

Most likely answer: not in your lifetime I'm afraid

Mind you, you might want to elaborate a bit on 'cause'. Cause as in how did it come to this? Cause as in 'what killed those 92 people?

I would like to go a little farther.

Why did they stay there when they knew it was illegal?

Who paid them and provided the food?

For the life of me I can not see the point in investigating what happened.

Go for the jugular and investigate who instigated it and supported it. Who made the decision to renig on two truces and carry on the fight. If my brother or son had been killed there I would want to know that.

I realize just being there set you up for it to happen and if you were a part of the army you were doing your job.

That is no big secret and only a idiot or a guilty person would deny it.