Plan To Trim Benefits For State Doctors: Thailand

[webfact]

Plan to trim benefits for state doctors

DUANGKAMON SAJIRAWATTANAKUL

THE NATION

New minister proposes budget change

BANGKOK: -- In a bid to boost the morale of nurses, Public Health Minister Pradit Sinthawanarong said yesterday he would propose amending the budget - cut fringe benefits for doctors to boost salaries of other medical workers at state hospitals.

"Nurses are at the core of the public-health system," he said at a seminar on nursing services. Held at a Bangkok hotel, it attracted about 750 nurses.

The Public Health Ministry has been looking for ways lately to appease nurses who have staged protests over heavy workloads and job insecurity. Many have worked for years as temporary employees in government hospitals in the hope of entering the ranks of the civil service.

Pradit initially offered to recruit 4,000 medical workers, including nurses, to the civil service immediately but representatives of the protesting nurses remained unhappy.

Yesterday, Pradit stood by his explanation that the government would not be able to recruit all 30,000 temporary-employee nurses to the civil service immediately.

However, he said he would offer better pay and career advancement.

"We have the same amount of budget. So, we will need to reallocate it. As medical workers work as a team, it's good to promote sharing," he said.

Asked whether doctors would then leave state hospitals in protest over the lower remuneration, Pradit said money was not everything.

"All doctors know about sacrifices needed in their profession. I believe they know about sufficiency."

He said the government would never be able to offer doctors the salaries they command at private hospitals.

Previously, the Public Health Ministry has given priority to doctors, pharmacists, dentists and nurses in a bid to solve the workforce shortage in the public health sector.

Pradit's plan to lower doctors' fringe benefits would be a big change, and he reckoned that doctors would be upset.

"I hope we can create a good understanding. As we work as a team in the public health sector, we should share the remuneration appropriately," he said.

-- The Nation 2012-11-14

[LuckyLew]

So the nurse are not happy

So lets take benefits form the doctors and give it to the nurses

I wonder if the doctors will be happy after this

What brilliant idea

[jcw]

Doctors in the public hospitals are not getting rich. More will say, enough is enough and get more training and move abroad.

[MikeOboe57]

I wonder why this guy was chosen for the job. Qualification can definitely be ruled out.

[asiawatcher]

Now watch the mass exodus of doctors from public hospitals... good move...

"... Pradit said money was not everything." He would know being a politician? Tell him to take a hair cut on his salary. Further proof what sort of idiots are running this Government and unfortunately, Thailand.

[Katipo]

Work at removing corruption in the health sector and there will be more than enough for everyone I suspect.

[Pib]

The public health minister appears to be playing game of pitting one similar group of people against the other (i.e.., nurses against doctors) which can play well in Thai society in that no one wants to be seen as conflicting or impacting someone else, especially someone close to them. One poster already said it in that state doctors are not getting rich....the doctors and nurses I'm personally familiar with work very long hours at least 6 days a week, have their own small clinics they open for a few hours on a few days every week to supplement their hospital incomes, and don't live in mansions or anything close to it. This govt is not going to improve the working conditions and salaries of state medical personnel unless pushed to do so through public demonstrations and medical personal protests. And the nurses (and doctors) need to be out in front protesting---but that generally goes against the Thai society way of thinking unless its politically related. Will be interesting in how serious the nurses, and now maybe the doctors, are about their cause....I hope they are serious and just don't whimper back into the hospitals.

[jaltsc]

This has to be an article from "The Onion" or "Not The Nation". Is this guy totally out of touch with reality?

First of all, most of the highest qualified Thai doctors are overseas. I worked for one of the top ranked hospitals in the states. I knew a few Thai doctors and medical students, and everyone of them told me that they were not returning to Thailand due to the low pay and lack of proper technology. They accepted jobs in the west which would enable them to pay back the Thai government for financing their overseas education.

The best qualified doctors remaining in Thailand work in private hospitals. Now they want to make it less enticing for qualified students to choose medicine as a profession. So those remaining to work in government hospitals will most likely be grossly under qualified. "All doctors know about sacrifices needed in their profession. I believe they know about sufficiency." But those sacrifices shouldn't include living the same lifestyle as a 7-11 worker. That just isn't "sufficient" enough.

[Stradavarius37]

So the nurse are not happy

So lets take benefits form the doctors and give it to the nurses

I wonder if the doctors will be happy after this

What brilliant idea

I agree - this has to be one of the stupidest ideas ever...Its not like doctors at public hospitals are rolling in money. Most of them have to open their own clinics or freelance at private hospitals just to get by.

[culicine]

Worsening conditions for doctors - their government salaries are already very low - will just result them moving to the government sector or under AEC, to other neighboring countries. Future recruitment could also be a problem - there's lots of face being a doctor, but the salaries are too low, and many have to work extra hours or open their own clinics.

[jonclark]

So the nurse are not happy

So lets take benefits form the doctors and give it to the nurses

I wonder if the doctors will be happy after this

What brilliant idea

I agree - this has to be one of the stupidest ideas ever...Its not like doctors at public hospitals are rolling in money. Most of them have to open their own clinics or freelance at private hospitals just to get by.

How about just increasing the general tax rate from about 7% to say 10-12% so that the government generates more revenue and can then pay public sector workers more, and attract a better calibre of people to serve the public.

I'm not even gonna go into the effect corruption at a governmental level has on the funds available to those (more important people) lower down the food chain.

[h90]

and not to forget that Thaksin holds a lot shares in PRIVATE Hospitals since he started to increase the costs of the state hospitals without giving them more funds.

But of course his commie friends won't see that.

[drdoom6996]

Good, piss off the doctors now that you already have pissed off nurses.

[monkfish]

Pitty the article doesn't mention the benifits which will or could be cut!

One benefit I know of is 0% mortgages for state Doctors but believe loads more TAX benifits exist.

I know one state doctor and believe me he is not strapped for cash but

same the West Doctors will always earn more in the private sector than public.

Personaly I think they should reduce the Military budget and pump

it in to the health and education system but well alas guess we all know thats not gonna happen

without Tanks<(

[fstarbkk]

Seems to me that a small portion of the squandered billions from the rice scheme could do a lot of good here. But it would probably not buy as many votes, so forget that.

[geriatrickid]

Brings to mind the Titanic cruise director's decision to rearrange the deck chairs after the ship hit the iceberg.

The hospitals already have a shortage of physicians and are unable to attract qualified doctors to hospitals in the poorer regions. This will only make it more difficult to attract and to retain the physicians.

[Crushdepth]

Will the Minister give up some of his own pay/benefits, in the interest of sharing and sufficiency?

[stoli]

Just some thoughts. I, like most of you, have no idea what a nurse earns in Thailand. I do know, from personal expierience, that their are many levels of nurses here, from candy stripers, to beginners, to trainees, to full level nurses. You can tell by the stripes on their hats. In the US the nurses are always on strike, without mentioning what they earn. My daughter-in-law, in Pasadena, California, earns $150,000 a year. She drops off her laundry each day as she walks in to work, and picks it up when she leaves. Free of charge. If she wants tickets to any sold-out show in Los Angeles, they are given to her. Her car is washed. And she will go on strike whenever they tell her too.This is excessive, and out of control. My god, she is a nurse! Cleans bedpans! I have spent well over 1M baht at Bangkok Heart Hospital, and every baht was well spent on the entire professional staff. I never felt that money was even a consideration. They take care of you now, and for follow up. Whether they, as part of the corruptness of the Thai system, kept some for them selves is none of my business. From my room I could see the DR.s parking lot, and it looked like a Mercedes Showroom. That is fine with me. They deserve it. Just don't forget that the public deserves health care every much as I, the paying public, does. If someone becomes a doctor for the financial aspect of it only, maybe they should try raping people as a commodities broker instead. I still beleive that Doctors become one to help people, and their rewards are much greater than financial. Take the greed out of your heart. I don't mean that live in poverty, just find something that fulfills you, and not just your pocket. I salute every docotr and nurse in Thailand that I have come in contact with. They are truly professional, and not just pissed off at their pay.

[SICHONSTEVE]

So the nurse are not happy

So lets take benefits form the doctors and give it to the nurses

I wonder if the doctors will be happy after this

What brilliant idea

"Pradit said money was not everything".

What an extraordinary thing for a Thai to say!!!!

Money IS everything!!! - Can anyone think of a perfect role model for proving my case???

Nuff said!!.

Actually, I will mention something else.

Do you think that he would still be of the same opinion if someone told him that they were going to deduct 75% of HIS salary???

Edited November 14, 2012 by SICHONSTEVE

[belg]

why farangs on this forum care ???? we already pay overinflated prices at private hospitals, not ???

[tigermonkey]

Health Minister Kuhn Pradit shows an unbelieveable lack of knowledge about the state hospital system in Thailand - or perhaps he has chosen to ignore what he knows. The conditions of employment and the earnings of ALL health care professionals in Thailand are completely lacking in any degree of uniformity (or fairness) throughout the country. If you guessed that the poorest and most rural regions are the worst, you would be quite correct. As a retired medical professional living in one of these areas, I am appalled by the employment conditions and priorities.

Our local hospital, which has 62 beds, an ER, X-ray department and pharmacy has 29 full-time employees of whom 2 are doctors and 5 are nurses. Obviously the hiring priority has not been on medical staff. The 'part-time' staff numbers another 43 which includes 11 doctors and 28 nurses; medical staffing is always critically short. Wait times can be up to 6 hours in ER and up to 3 days for a serviced bed.

The seven other area hospitals with which I am familiar are all similar. To try to hide the problems by starting a war between doctors and nurses is pathetic. One superb young doctor that I have frequently helped earns about 18,000 Baht per month, but needs to also work long hours as an electrician to support his wife and 2 children.

The entire system needs a complete restructuring with the emphasis on medical staffing - both doctors and nurses.

[siampolee]

Asked whether doctors would then leave state hospitals in protest over the lower remuneration, Pradit said money was not everything.

"All doctors know about sacrifices needed in their profession. I believe they know about sufficiency."

I can only presume that the advice given to the doctors is also the course of action that Public health minister Pradit Sinthawanarong is himself following, thus he is speaking from his own personal experience.?

Ask not what my country can do for me but ask what can I do for my country .

Edited November 14, 2012 by siampolee

[hellodolly]

So the nurse are not happy

So lets take benefits form the doctors and give it to the nurses

I wonder if the doctors will be happy after this

What brilliant idea

I agree - this has to be one of the stupidest ideas ever...Its not like doctors at public hospitals are rolling in money. Most of them have to open their own clinics or freelance at private hospitals just to get by.

How about just increasing the general tax rate from about 7% to say 10-12% so that the government generates more revenue and can then pay public sector workers more, and attract a better calibre of people to serve the public.

I'm not even gonna go into the effect corruption at a governmental level has on the funds available to those (more important people) lower down the food chain.

They will probably do that to pay for unsalable rice.

People don't count to this Government.

An idea like this one is just proof positive that this country needs better education system.

[hellodolly]

Pitty the article doesn't mention the benifits which will or could be cut!

One benefit I know of is 0% mortgages for state Doctors but believe loads more TAX benifits exist.

I know one state doctor and believe me he is not strapped for cash but

same the West Doctors will always earn more in the private sector than public.

Personaly I think they should reduce the Military budget and pump

it in to the health and education system but well alas guess we all know thats not gonna happen

without Tanks<(

Care to break down his earnings into a hourly wage.

Then we can tell if you are making sense or not.

[cheeryble]

I find it refreshing that the question of equalising those two professions.....even if only slightly......has been suggested.

Do the physicians work that much harder or have shorter earning careers? In that case compensate them in proportion but not in disproportion. It should be an honour to use the skills given you to help your fellow man, not to live a cushy life and drive a big car.

I wish they would lower physicians' salaries and benefits in the US.

The US needs to give it's healthcare costs a major haircut.....akin to a revolution.....to sustain it's economy.

[mike123ca]

Work at removing corruption in the health sector and there will be more than enough for everyone I suspect.

You could also say the same for the public education sector too.

[caughtintheact]

The incumbent did not invent the system, but he is the one who has to try to make it work. Perhaps the reaction of doctors should come before a lot of criticism. If the demand in private hospitals is low, then there will be no place for doctors in the government sector to go, except into other jobs. This reaction from the minister began as a result of the nurses' protests, which placed the government in the position of needing a way to play off scarce resources against scarce resources (nurses vs. doctors vs, money (budge)). One person above mentioned increasing taxes, and that can be a temporary solution, but when you take money from the taxpayers for one group of people, that means those paying the additional taxes have less to spend in other sectors of the economy which can hurt the overall economy, and can cost jobs.

But I suspect that we are talking symptoms here, not problems. Why are there not enough nurses or doctors in the low cost hospitals? Why do public service nurses have to work so many hours? Are there too many patients? If there are too many patients, then are there ways to reduce the number of patients to those who have legitimate illnesses? How many patients’ are not ill, but like discussing their imagined, future or friends’ailments with professionals for only 30 baht?

If taxes were to be raised, just what taxes should be raised to pay for this? And if the taxes are not enough because of corruption or other factors, is the answer to keep raising them? How long should that go on?

And as another mentioned, what will happen in 2015 when the AEC opens? Will doctors and nurses who speak English or another regional language go to other ASEAN countries, thus increasing the doctor/nurse shortage? Can they be replaced with qualified doctors from low wage countries like Burma, Cambodia or Laos? That could happen if the incoming doctors can speak Thai fluently, but the number may not be adequate for a long, long time.

Perhaps it would have been more prudent to survey doctors on giving up some money and nurses to see how they feel would about getting money that would otherwise go to doctors. We can't assume that we know the results. Unfortunately for all, politicians are incapable of saying nothing, and what they usually end up doing is bad for everyone. The ultimate fault is not the minister’s, though, after all, who voted his party into office?

[masterbiker49]

So the nurse are not happy

So lets take benefits form the doctors and give it to the nurses

I wonder if the doctors will be happy after this

What brilliant idea

I agree - this has to be one of the stupidest ideas ever...Its not like doctors at public hospitals are rolling in money. Most of them have to open their own clinics or freelance at private hospitals just to get by.

How about just increasing the general tax rate from about 7% to say 10-12% so that the government generates more revenue and can then pay public sector workers more, and attract a better calibre of people to serve the public.

I'm not even gonna go into the effect corruption at a governmental level has on the funds available to those (more important people) lower down the food chain.

Or get rid of rice pledging,there would be more than enough to give all a pay rise-OH but wait TIT

[DeepInTheForest]

The public health minister appears to be playing game of pitting one similar group of people against the other (i.e.., nurses against doctors) which can play well in Thai society in that no one wants to be seen as conflicting or impacting someone else, especially someone close to them. One poster already said it in that state doctors are not getting rich....the doctors and nurses I'm personally familiar with work very long hours at least 6 days a week, have their own small clinics they open for a few hours on a few days every week to supplement their hospital incomes, and don't live in mansions or anything close to it. This govt is not going to improve the working conditions and salaries of state medical personnel unless pushed to do so through public demonstrations and medical personal protests. And the nurses (and doctors) need to be out in front protesting---but that generally goes against the Thai society way of thinking unless its politically related. Will be interesting in how serious the nurses, and now maybe the doctors, are about their cause....I hope they are serious and just don't whimper back into the hospitals.

We rarely fail, as posters, to underestimate the political activism and acumen of Thai people.

http://www.channelne...1231663/1/.html

http://www.abc.net.a...-on-job/4345604

To say that nurses are not politically active, or somehow are afraid to upset the social fabric by voicing and pressing their demands, is demonstrably untrue, as the links show.

Edited November 19, 2012 by DeepInTheForest