Increasing The Ph Level Of A Swimming Pool With Ammonium Bicarbonate

[geoffphuket]

I've read on several sites that Sodium Bicarbonate can be used to raise the Ph level in a swimming pool. Problem is, my local supermarket only sells large packs of Ammonium Bicarbonate and I'm wondering if this is basically the same stuff....I've done the 'wiki' search etc, and there is a chemical difference between the two, although it's use in cooking is much the same. Can anyone WITH EXPERIENCE offer advice please?

[Rimmer]

Moved to Swimming Pool Forum

[geoffphuket]

Moved to Swimming Pool Forum

Thanks. I couldn't find it listed on the home page, which I have now.....burried in the depths :-)

Edited November 21, 2012 by geoffphuket

[geoffphuket]

None of you experts out there can help? LOL

[Naam]

there is Sodium Carbonat Na2CO3 (Soda Ash) which is normally used to increase the pH of pool water, available in pool shops and there is Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3 which is... baking powder but can also be used to raise the pH.

[SantiSuk]

there is Sodium Carbonat Na2CO3 (Soda Ash) which is normally used to increase the pH of pool water, available in pool shops and there is Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3 which is... baking powder but can also be used to raise the pH.

Just a comment on my experience, not challenging your 30 years pool experience Naam - I can only muster one twentieth of that

Yep - soda ash is usually the one used for increasing pH and its usually cheaper than Sodium Bicarbonate. Sodium Bicarbonate is usually used to raise Total Alkalinity (a different animal to pH). When I use it I do not notice it having any significant effect on my pH levels so maybe at best it would be a very cost-inefficient alternative to soda ash.

I buy my sodium bicarbonate at Tesco (baking powder) in 300g pouches by the way, at 11.5 baht. 25% ish more expensive than a 25kg sack from a pool shop, but if you live in Issaan you sometimes have to make do!

Edited December 12, 2012 by SantiSuk

[Naam]

Sodium Bicarbonate is usually used to raise Total Alkalinity (a different animal to pH).

those were the days when i checked total alkalinity and a dozen other "important parts per million" mea culpa! nowadays i don't even own a proper test kit except for Cl and pH

[SantiSuk]

With half a lifetime of pool experience I can imagine that you stick your nose over the pool, flare it Eastwood-style, dab a finger in and lick it, then come up 95% accurate anyway

[SantiSuk]

there is Sodium Carbonat Na2CO3 (Soda Ash) which is normally used to increase the pH of pool water, available in pool shops and there is Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3 which is... baking powder but can also be used to raise the pH.

Just a comment on my experience, not challenging your 30 years pool experience Naam - I can only muster one twentieth of that:D

Yep - soda ash is usually the one used for increasing pH and its usually cheaper than Sodium Bicarbonate. Sodium Bicarbonate is usually used to raise Total Alkalinity (a different animal to pH). When I use it I do not notice it having any significant effect on my pH levels so maybe at best it would be a very cost-inefficient alternative to soda ash.

I buy my sodium bicarbonate at Tesco (baking powder) in 300g pouches by the way, at 11.5 baht. 25% ish more expensive than a 25kg sack from a pool shop, but if you live in Issaan you sometimes have to make do!

Tesco have just put their sod bicarb pouches up to 17 baht - a 50% increase. They must have wondered why all their cooking aid powder was flying off the shelf in bulk quantities!

Its the 25kg sack next then.

[jbrain]

there is Sodium Carbonat Na2CO3 (Soda Ash) which is normally used to increase the pH of pool water, available in pool shops and there is Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3 which is... baking powder but can also be used to raise the pH.

Just a comment on my experience, not challenging your 30 years pool experience Naam - I can only muster one twentieth of that:D

Yep - soda ash is usually the one used for increasing pH and its usually cheaper than Sodium Bicarbonate. Sodium Bicarbonate is usually used to raise Total Alkalinity (a different animal to pH). When I use it I do not notice it having any significant effect on my pH levels so maybe at best it would be a very cost-inefficient alternative to soda ash.

I buy my sodium bicarbonate at Tesco (baking powder) in 300g pouches by the way, at 11.5 baht. 25% ish more expensive than a 25kg sack from a pool shop, but if you live in Issaan you sometimes have to make do!

Tesco have just put their sod bicarb pouches up to 17 baht - a 50% increase. They must have wondered why all their cooking aid powder was flying off the shelf in bulk quantities!

Its the 25kg sack next then.

But at Makro the Mc Garret baking soda is still 12 baht

[SantiSuk]

Thanks for the tip-off JPB. Got myself a few kilos in SiSaket Makro at 12 baht (for 300g). Rip-off barstewards at Tesco then!

Anyone know a pool shop in Bangkok (or nearer to Bangkok than Pattaya) where I can buy 25kg bags of sodium bicarb off the shelf. R&R visit from the Issaan boonies coming up next week!

For some reason my 85 cu.m. pool sucks up about 1.5kg a month to keep it at about 100 ppm total alkalinity. My pH acidity levels go the other way at about the same rate - 2.0 litres a month. No need for me to share materials, as a sack would only last me about 18 months. That said if there is anyone in southern Ubon or in Sisaket provinces who wants to explore joint-buying I have most of my sources lined up for the regular pool chemicals and do collection runs every so often. Not many private pools hereabouts though.

[Chaichara]

'pH Plus' is marketed by va

[Chaichara]

I've seen 'pH Plus' marketed by various pool retailers at anything from Baht 350 to Baht 900 for a 5 Kg tub. It's only soda ash (sodium carbonate) and the price drops to under Baht 20 per kg if purchased in the 25 Kg bags (well, according to the advertisers here). Buying online may incur shipping costs, but it should still work out cheaper and less time consuming than driving round the countryside looking for a supplier between Pattaya and BKK.

[SantiSuk]

I tried to buy a 25kg bag of sodium bicarbonate in Pattaya at the weekend. Four shops, none stocked it. One claimed to and wheeled out a 25kg bag of Soda Ash, giving me that 'falang baa' look when I told then Soda Ash and Sodium Bicarbonate are not the same.

I agree that Soda Ash and Sodium Bicarbonate are close in concept and chemical structure but I am sure that I read, either on a thread in the SP Forum or somewhere else that they are not strictly interchangeable - one raises pH (Soda Ash) and the other Total Alkalinity. If you use Soda Ash to raise Total Alkalinity it may work but it may leave you with a high pH that will need HCL to reduce back down, whereas as far as I can tell Sodium Bicarbonate does not raise pH.

I may do some experiments one day since bulk Soda Ash seems so much easier to find.

[jbrain]

Soda ash raises the TA 1.6 times compared to baking soda ( sodium bicarbonate ), but raise the PH with 10 times compared to baking soda.

There are no pool shops that stock baking soda, and most even don't know the difference. The only chance to find it in big quantities is if you can locate a bakery goods wholesaler.

[SantiSuk]

Soda ash raises the TA 1.6 times compared to baking soda ( sodium bicarbonate ), but raise the PH with 10 times compared to baking soda.

There are no pool shops that stock baking soda, and most even don't know the difference. The only chance to find it in big quantities is if you can locate a bakery goods wholesaler.

Depends what you call a shop:

http://www.thepooldoctorsthailand.com/index.php?cPath=27&osCsid=d81a768bfafa093823708cd1522c8f85

(and one other whose Thai-based internet shop I can't now re-find)

I agree though it seems to be like rocking horse $hit in normal pool shops.

[jbrain]

Soda ash raises the TA 1.6 times compared to baking soda ( sodium bicarbonate ), but raise the PH with 10 times compared to baking soda.

There are no pool shops that stock baking soda, and most even don't know the difference. The only chance to find it in big quantities is if you can locate a bakery goods wholesaler.

Depends what you call a shop:

http://www.thepooldoctorsthailand.com/index.php?cPath=27&osCsid=d81a768bfafa093823708cd1522c8f85

(and one other whose Thai-based internet shop I can't now re-find)

I agree though it seems to be like rocking horse $hit in normal pool shops.

So if you found it at the pool doctors, what's the problem?

Pool doctors is located in Pattaya.

[SantiSuk]

Simply because I overlooked the fact they have a location in Pattaya. Always associated them with Bangkok.

[jbrain]

Simply because I overlooked the fact they have a location in Pattaya. Always associated them with Bangkok.

Have you considered already looking for a bakery wholesale or a bakery in your area? For sure they will have a source as they use it themselves.

[Chaichara]

Most pool shops don't stock sodium bicarb because so few pool owners are aware of what it is for that there is little demand for it. If they do, it's sold under some proprietary name at a grossly inflated price. The best sources are bakery wholesale suppliers or direct from TFAC Group, 103 Soi Lasalle 43, Sukhumvit 105, Bang Na, Bangkok 10260. Price baht 475.00 per 25 Kg bag, but there may be a minimum order quantity. Compare that with pool shop and supermarket prices.