Thinking About Leaving? How About You....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I have heard too many stories, (true ones),

Me, too,...

And even untrue ones,...

Scary, isn't it?

I'm packing. See you in Cambodia,...

From the frying pan to the fire? An uncle of my wife was heavily involved in silk trading in Cambodia. He was also a "somebody" in the government there.

His entire family was murdered. He is now in Australia.

Be careful man.

Rgrds

Mr Vietnam

Absolutely true Mr Vietnam...absolutely true. And it is the dark ages there in many ways. Let 'em go....they can whine elsewhere.

[Zendesigner]

bluecat,

i thought by your post's in a different thread , That they all were so wonderfull here ??

So why go to cambodia?

B

[dr_Pat_Pong]

bluecat,

i thought by your post's in a different thread , That they all were so wonderfull here ??

So why go to cambodia?

B

A masochist perhaps

[davidm]

I can understand someone choosing to relocate to Malaysia, even though it's not a place I wish to return to any time soon. If you're really adventurous and streetwise, perhaps Vietnam might be a good destination. But Cambodia? Why on earth would any leave Thailand for that place? Don't get me wrong, beautiful country and some of the people are very nice. We should all be aware of what's wrong with the place, though.

[Bluecat]

bluecat,

i thought by your post's in a different thread , That they all were so wonderfull here ??

So why go to cambodia?

B

A masochist perhaps

[Bluecat]

bluecat,

i thought by your post's in a different thread , That they all were so wonderfull here ??

So why go to cambodia?

B

Sorry Zendesigner.

I was feeling so lonely, so different,...

I was longing for the love of my peers on this forum.

But you found the truth, you busted me.

(Hmmm, maybe Cambodia was a bit too much,...)

Oh well! No matter what happens, there is always death. Napoleon

[DaveYo]

Cambodia to me is a bad bad dude of a place for expats to want to live there. The living conditions are primitive, and a heck of a lot more illegal activity is going on in that country than it is in Thailand or even Vietnam.

For me, this is the last place I would want to ditch myself into unless I want to hide and live like they do in that country.

Also if you think the Hilton is bad in Thailand, what do you think Cambodia will or might be??? Whew.

Also another example is phone rates which is really up in the sky from what I found out checking here. They don't have their phone system set up as well as in Thailand or the Philippines.

Try paying something like the $4.00 to $5.00 range per minute.( Calls from USA)

The news from Mr. Vietnam concerning some person there is somewhat shocking yet I would have to believe it to be very true even though I never set foot in that country ever in my life. One of those reasons is what I saw on the news such as Dateline from their film clips. I am glad I haven't.

Daveyoti

[Axel]

DaveYo, I was nearly going to complain, but than you said, you never have been to Cambodia.

OK, fine. But, if you have a chance to go, go there. Start in Siem Reap.

Now, we must separate what we want, live or fight politics?

If you want a life, why not. It's cheap, adventerous, different. So What?

Perhaps, it is like Vietnam 10 years ago. And btw, Vietnam is great today, they even have KFC (ok, at the moment sell only fish, no chicken)

Hey, I visit all those countries very regularly and don't have problems. Sorry for mrvietnam2001, but this is something local, it happened in Chicago back in 1922, too.

[mrvietnam2001]

Sorry for mrvietnam2001, but this is something local, it happened in Chicago back in 1922, too.

LOL! You couldn't pay me enough to live in Chicago in 2004 Axel!

But certainly Chicago in 1922 was a better place to live than Cambodia.

I agree about "visiting" Siem Reap though.

That was funny !

Mr Vietnam

[utapaortnab]

I haven't been in Cambodia since my old Viet Nam War years. Things were friendly enough back then to entice me to return. ....lol

But I have returned to Pattaya Beach for a 35th trip since living there in 71-72.

And as I grew up in Lafayette Indiana and once lived in Prospect Heights for a short period of time, I agree with NOT living in Chicago

Ken Bower

Veteran Human Being

[djinn]

I plan to have my OA visa next month and I forecast to stay in the kingdom 10 or 11 months each year.

The bars closing time will have no impact on my decision.

Having to pay tax in Thailand will impact it.

I posted a thread about this;but no real answer came

So I will participate at a friend's meeting over Brazil here in Belgium, next week.They are involved in investments there.

If the tax issue is not resolved soon,I plan to spend 6 months in Thailand this year.The rest will be between Brazil and PI for determining which suits the best my living style.

I was cautious with investments in Thailand.I only bought a car.And if I have to go elsewhere,I will easely sell it.

[mrvietnam2001]

I was cautious with investments in Thailand.I only bought a car.And if I have to go elsewhere,I will easely sell it.

Or leave it behind. Isn't a big deal.

You were smart.

Mr Vietnam

[Sunbelt Asia]

Another view from a businessman who post on another Forum. I understand, hes an old timer and has been here in Bangkok over 10 years..

Showtime is correct. Just because things are changing, if they are changing, does not mean that there are not a lot of new oppurtunities that are going to be out there as a result of these changes.

A lot of uncertainty about how, when and if. But, the certain fact is that Thailand is changing. The economy is growing, there is less housing vacancy in the farang area and real estate values are skyrocketing.

As I look out my window I see 5 very active construction projects withing 600 meters of my window. Two high rises, two mansions and one Hotel. This morning, at 7AM on a clear cool morning, I had to close my windows and doors while I was reading my newspapers to clear the sound of Backhoes and hammers.

Maybe it's all going to fall apart in the future but right now, I've never had so many really solid good oppurtunities on my platter at one time. I am passing on things that would have made me drool with anticipation in the past. Not enough time, not enough staff, not enough entrepeneurial energy and not enough capital to take advantage of everything. Showtime is right on target.

I'm not sure I like many of the changes. And I am not making light of the plight of many of my friends whose ambitions may be seriously sidelined by these changes. But, the times they are a changin' and we must adapt. You can piss and moan about the good old days or you can get excited about the myriad new oppurtunities developing. Who moved my Cheese?

It will never be the same and we will never go back to the "Good old days" but that was inevitable, wasn't it? Has anything anywhere ever stayed the same for long? Saigon, Rio, Phnom Penh, Manilla?

[Dutchy]

Nothing against sunbelt, "Now is the time to do business", but here's another quote from today's Nation.

"ABN Amro Holding had wanted to reduce its stake in the Bank of Asia (BOA) - and eventually pull out of the Thai unit - for some time, but the government's Financial Master Plan forced the Dutch giant move much faster than it had wanted to.

It has been known in financial circles for at least three years that ABN Amro wanted to sell its stake in the Thai bank - which it bought five years ago - but was waiting for the market to turn around so that it could get a satisfactory price.

Analysts estimate the foreign bank paid an average of Bt7 per share for its several purchases of BOA shares, which now total 80.77 per cent of total shares. BOA's stock price over the past few years, however, has rarely reached Bt7. The stock closed at Bt5.55 yesterday. The bank's return on equity and net profit remained in negative territory from 1998 to 2002. Only last year did they turn positive.

ABN Amro was counting on continued improvement to boost BOA's share value before selling its stake. However, the recently approved Financial Master Plan forced it into a corner.

The plan gives foreign financial institutions six months to decide between keeping a branch here or holding a stake in a domestic bank. This is called the "one presence" guideline.

With such a short timeframe, ABN Amro had very few choices. Last week it put its entire stake in BOA up for open bidding."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/page.news....ess=1&id=108562

[pnustedt]

I don't understand how you can look at a report regarding one poorly performing company and deduce that it is a reason not to invest in a country.

It is a fact that the SET is one of the worlds' best performing stock exchanges over the past few years and, thankfully, I have been investing in it and made a lot of money (in my own modest way).

[Sing_Sling]

I don't know where Sunbelt get shis info, but Thailand is a long way from becoming a business hub for S/E asia, let alone Asia in total. One good indicator is how many MNC's have their regional HQ's in any given country - Thailand is not one of the contenders.

Hong Kong and Singapore still lead the pack by quite a margin and this has to do with many factors, among them being the general knowledge of English. Sorry, but Thailand simply does not cut it even in this basic category.

Compare airports:

Chep Lap Kok and Changi vs Don Muang

This alone is taken into consideration when chosing an HQ. Add to this, levels of corruption, infrastructure, renomee (still an important factor), work ethic, . . .

Thailand is undoubtedly a beautiful place, but in international terms it simply cannot compete - any company making their choice based simply on lower salaries and rental is looking at the wrong indices.

I can only speak fom experience, but if an expat is sent o HK, Tokyo or Singapore it is a step up. If the posting is Manila., Bangkok or Jakarta it is considered a step down.

Please, Sunbelt, provide me with a lits of MNC's with their regional headquarters in Bangkok.

Unfortunately it is still seen as a place with beautiful beaches, pat pong and the golden traingle.

I love to vacation in Thailand, but my monthly business trips to Bangkok are something I dread.

[Bluecat]

I don't know where Sunbelt get shis info, but Thailand is a long way from becoming a business hub for S/E asia, let alone Asia in total.  One good indicator is how many MNC's have their regional HQ's in any given country - Thailand is not one of the contenders. 

Hong Kong and Singapore still lead the pack by quite a margin and this has to do with many factors, among them being the general knowledge of English.  Sorry, but Thailand simply does not cut it even in this basic category. 

Compare airports:

Chep Lap Kok and Changi vs Don Muang 

This alone is taken into consideration when chosing an HQ.  Add to this, levels of corruption, infrastructure, renomee (still an important factor), work ethic,  . . .

Thailand is undoubtedly a beautiful place, but in international terms it simply cannot compete - any company making their choice based simply on lower salaries and rental is looking at the wrong indices. 

I can only speak fom experience, but if an expat is sent o HK, Tokyo or Singapore it is a step up.  If the posting is Manila., Bangkok or Jakarta it is considered a step down. 

Please, Sunbelt, provide me with a lits of MNC's with their regional headquarters in Bangkok. 

Unfortunately it is still seen as a place with beautiful beaches, pat pong and the golden traingle.

I love to vacation in Thailand, but my monthly business trips to Bangkok are something I dread.

Are you Singaporean?

I said it before but one of the most efficient company on this planet, i.e. Toyota is investing billions of Baht in Thailand.

Why not in Singapore or Hong Kong?

As much as I agree that Singapore is a very well organized country and with a population that is English educated, it is just TOO SMALL and TOO EXPENSIVE.

I spent 9 years there working for a European company before we also moved all our people to Thailand,...

Are we as stupid as Toyota?

I hope so,...

[Sunbelt Asia]

Don Muang, may be old but it still is the busiest in Southeast Asia and the 22nd busiest airport in the world.

Guess you haven't heard of the new little airport that is being built… called THE SUVANABHUMI AIRPORT that will be open 587 days… at an investment of 120 billion baht ($US 2.7 billion) It will be 500,000 sqm (world's largest for a single terminal complex - the roof trellis will also be the largest of its kind). By 2010 it will handle 112 flights per hour and accommodating 100 million passengers each year.

Ernst & Young, KPMG, Ogilvy & Mather. Coca-Cola, Motorola,. Microsoft, Kimberly-Clark, IBM, Bayer, American Standard, American Express, 3M, Bank of America, Bloomberg, Chevron, Citibank, Cisco, Colgate, Palmolive, Compaq, Conoco, Dow Corning, General Motors, Dow, Dupont, Eli Lilly, General Electric, Proctor-Gamble, Unocol, and Kellogg just to name a few are all located in Thailand.

Amcham meeting the other night and everyone I spoke with spoke highly of the Thai economy. The key is "manufacturing and exports." The words I heard over and over again why it’s flat out trying to keep up with the demand that has been created in Thailand. These days indeed are exciting times.

Greg Lange

Managing Director

Sunbelt Asia

www.sunbeltasia.com

[meemiathai]

Ernst & Young, KPMG, Ogilvy & Mather. Coca-Cola, Motorola,. Microsoft, Kimberly-Clark, IBM, Bayer, American Standard, American Express, 3M, Bank of America, Bloomberg, Chevron, Citibank, Cisco, Colgate, Palmolive, Compaq, Conoco, Dow Corning, General Motors, Dow, Dupont, Eli Lilly, General Electric, Proctor-Gamble, Unocol, and Kellogg just to name a few are all located in Thailand.

What are they? Never heard of

[Sing_Sling]

Sigh, I knew it would come to this, why do you seem to be taking this so personally? This is not a Thailand bashing exercise on my part, I happen to be very fond of the country and its people.

Actually I was born in Thailand in 1961 when my father was posted there with our foreign service, and as such it is a special place for me.

What we are talking about has nothing to do with sentimentality, simply economics.

Bluecat - No, I am not Singaporean. I'm a European expat on my 5th international assignment which last, on average, 4 years:

Paris, Amsterdam, Sydney, Hong Kong and now Singapore. But thank you for quoting my entire post, it is flattering.

Singapore is indeed very small, but it is very efficient, guaranteed services, efficient public sector, solid political climate and the list goes on.

Sunbelt - I was talking about regional hubs and HQ's, I never mentioned that there are no regional offices in Bangkok - of course there are, it would be ludicrous to exclude such a populous country with large amounts of government spending. However, how many of the companies you listed have their Asian HQ (!) in Bangkok?

Without doubt there are some, particularly in the manufacturing sector, but this is changing as well due to many companies moving their manufacturing base to the PRC for obvious reasons.

Airports - is the quality of an airport really measured only by the amount of passengers moving through it? If you look under cargo, Singapore is in 9th place and Bangkok is not in the top 10, or even 15. But these figures aside, what counts in an airport is efficiency. One can only hope that the new airport will be better, but is inefficiency inherent in the system?

If so, then it's just a rose by any other name.

[Jimbo]

Although Sunbelt often posts great information one should take some of their comments with a grain of salt. Their business depends on folks investing money in Thailand if its a business or house. Lets be fair, there are other countries with excellents future and although I love Thailand, I can immagine their being better places to invest your money

[mrvietnam2001]

Lets be fair, there are other countries with excellents future and although I love Thailand, I can immagine their being better places to invest your money

Yes and Vietnam is one of those alternatives and it's catching up fast. Vietnam is watching Thailand very closely and so is the USA watching Vietnam very closely and is now Vnams biggest ttading partner in just under a year and a half of the free trade agreement.

Let's not forget the US Cruise Missile ship traveling down the Saigon River from Vungtau to Saigon a couple months ago sporting the US AND Vietnam flags simultaneously excorted by 2 Vietnamese Navy Ships sporting the Vietnamese AND USA flag simultaneously. You better believe that was a signal to Beijing and elsewhere.

We can get into political changes on the horizon but even from an ease of long term stays, Vietnam blows Thailand away in that area.

I loved Koh Samui from the time I landed there. The sheer beauty of the island drew me to shipping a container of my things there, getting a house overlooking the gulf, and making a real attempt at setting up retirement there. But wow, what a pain in the rear end the whole place became and I am so glad the foreign owner rejected my all cash offer to buy that place.

Gonna be a lot of changes thruout Asia in the next few years is my bet.

Rgrds

Mr Vietnam

[Axel]

....Mr Vietnam

Do me a favour man, IT IS A SECRETE!

Anyway, I agree with you and do so while still remembering the time I paid US$ 5.00 airport tax and had to walk up an unused VN airline staircase to get out.

You can compare Thailand wih VietNam by many things, but my bet goes on VietNam. They still work and have sanook in the Cuchi tunnels after dark.

[mraloha]

i enjoyed reading all the comments today. i have lived here with my ederly mother for three years. i took her out of a nursing home in the US and brought her here because it was costing us 10,000 dollars a month and she was not getting that good of care. i honestly have had fantasies latly about moving back to the US. i do find this country to be very nationalistic. my mother and i are moderatly wealthy and don't have to work. all of our money is in stocks and bonds in the US and it will stay there. the only money i invest here is what i have too. i am not making anymore big purchases, because i would like to pull out of here eventually. but i belive i can stay here as long as i keep my mouth shut and kiss ass. it is good here in allot of ways, my mother gets great care here, she is healthier now than she was in the 10k a month nursing home in the US.

i do think that the whole world sucks in a way now, and realize that we all suffer our own darma for the things that we do, so those who we see as being greedy, scary or rude will suffer in there own way or probly are suffering in their own way. i guess living here in thailand i just chalk it all up, as many farang do, its the thais country and i have no rights here really, i am at their mercy. i don't like living in the US, but it is more democratic than here.

[kwiz117]

To All those who do not like Thailand:

Are we trying to say that Thailand or any other Asian Country for that sake, is 'Good" or "Bad" based on the way they treat Western or Foreign people?

Remember, Respect/non Respect, Racist/non Racist, Bad/Good have totally Different meanings.

For me, the policies of Thai Govt are Racist.

They are very materialists like some Western Countries. This is like who is taking more Flesh out of each other type of a situation.

Also they are very opportunistic. I do not trust any Thai Guy but Thai Girls, I can trust. That's my experience here. (Well..I am not in to Bars and Night life)

For example, If I go and live in an Western Country, I will get a relatively lower Salary coz I am Asian and I will understand it.

Anyway, in a western country, I will get more than what I can get compared to from where I am. But life is not that what I get and what I did not get in Material or Money terms.

On the other hand when a 'Native English' speaker comes to Thailand, they get Above Average Salaries and then they expect more.

If the things do not work, then Thailand is bad and if everything is ok then Thailand is the Heaven on Earth.

No country like to invite foreigners to stay and then earn money out of it and take them back with them. So do not expect it and get disappointed.

[Bluecat]

No country like to invite foreigners to stay and then earn money out of it and take them back with them.

I think in the case of Thailand, the balance is much in favour of the country, i.e. the amout of money spent or "invested" by foreigners here far outweigh what they take back with them (if anything,...).

But you are right that that feeling is always present in any country and especially in Thailand where people are on the top of the scale as far as the love of their country is concerned,...

[kwiz117]

Let me tell how other Asian's see Thailand.

In my Country, many people think Thailand and Bangkok are two different countries like Taiwan , Hongkong and China.

As a result of it, many of them think Thailand is an agri Based country like China.

When it comes to Bangkok..many of them think Bangkok is a place where you get Cheap Prostitutes everywhere. Reason is, people in Asia not travel like the way you western guys travel around the world. So they hear things from each other and from Media.

Also they believe that a person who visit Bangkok is always a Sex Tourist. So, when I go home, my friends always tell me to wash my hands before I shake-hand.

Very few of them know that Thailand is a Manufacturing Hub like the way they say in Thai Media. Very few even know Thailand as a Fashion City. All they know is this is a place where they can get cheap cloths and hand carry to re-sell. If you do not believe me, just go to the Indian or Pakistan Airline counters in the Airport and see the Polythene Bags they hand carry packed with Cloths.

So the perception in general about Thailand among other Asian's are not at all good. I see big campaigns in Thailand to build Thai image and promote Thailand. May be those are only for Thai's and not crossing the borders.

But after living here for 4 yrs, I do know the reality. Devil is not so Black like the way my Mother has thought me.

[mijan24]

Dave Y & Mr Vietnam by combining both of your posts on the Philippines the result is almost 100% from my 19+years in & out of the RP.

My ex's brother was a prominent lawyer made his money, sons took over the practice and he took up a judgeship rather than a position as Governor more $peso lucrative- and we spent many a night discussing home ownership Mr Vietnam you are correct.

On the pollution those that have actually visted Manila would remember the smog etc after a day out in downtown Manila when you washed your hair it made you think of a day out in the colliery!!

Law & order Marcos for all of his faults controlled by martial law (curfew) APC's up Mabini down Del Pellar every night bar girls done up to the nines cleaning the streets every morning after being caught out of curfew - but all for the good of the tourist who were treated with respect and he wanted their $'s

It is amazing how one country reflects the other maybe a family tree search is in order?

Regards

mijan24

[astral]

The main problem with Malaysia is the visa situation.

There is no official residence procedure, it is "in the gift" of the Prime Minister.

If you have friend at the right levels and race (ugly word) then you can get it,

but otherwise you will always need a suitcase packed.

If you marry a local girl, the Malayisan government attitude is, " OK, take her back home with you. You are not staying here!"

The racial prejudice puts me off. I did live in KL for 2 years but never liked the political and racial undertones

[Sing_Sling]

Another anecdote to confirm my feelings about business etiquette in Thailand. I happened to call our partner in BKK this morning and he informs me that one of our appointments at CAT has been postponed for business reasons, i.e. the guy in charge will be playing golf, he found out about this not from CAT, but from a sales manager in charge of the account who found out from a mate who works for the manager of the relevant department while they were having a beer . . .

So, not only do they not have the decency to inform our office that the meeting has been postponed, i'e. cancelled for business reasons, but it's for a most pathetic reason, i.e. playing golf. For this we have a specialist engineer flying in from the US. . . Lack of respect for others and a total absence of business etiquette are some of the factors why Thailand is not a regional hub for MNC's - yes, yes, for a few it is, but the exception confirms the rule.

So, really looking forward to my flight tomorrow afternoon - at least the Banyan Tree is a nice hotel . . .

The situation in Malaysia regarding residency is really a mess. As a previous poster mentioned, just because you marry a local doesn't give you the right to residency - especially if the partner is Chinese or Indian. If he/she is Malay (muslim), then a special request can be obtained from an Imam, but still no guarantee, irrespective how long you have been married. Most foreigners go to Hat Yai or Singapore to get their re-entry chop, but doing this too often might also prove problematic in the long run.