17,000 Nurses Threaten To Go On Strike In Thailand

[Buchholz]

...My GF is a cardiac surgery nurse... It's really made us consider her redoing her education in America where she can get paid what she's worth.

Some Thai nursing school degrees are accepted for licensure in the US, but beware: the licensing exams in the US - certainly CA - are written in such complex English sentence form that they serve [purposefully, I'm convinced] as trade barriers to non-native English-speaking nurses no matter their level of medical expertise.

Also, nurse hours in the US are maybe no better than here. and your GF would start off at the bottom of the totem pole with night shifts, no matter her seniority here.

We just skipped the whole thing, and my wife left the profession when we decided to have a baby.

About 10 years ago when still living in the States I lived next to a nurse who was originally from the Philippines. In the Philippines she was a doctor, but couldn't pass the U.S. doctor's licensing exam because she said even though she was pretty fluent in her English second language she said she still had problems in understanding many of the questions. However, she did pass the nurse's licensing exam but said even the English in that exam gave her problems/made it tough to pass. If English nursing exams give Filipino's problems, then the great, great majority of Thai's nurses won't have a chance in passing the exam.

The language standards are a necessary requirement. Particularly in the medical field, effective communication is essential, which is why there's no hedging on the standard.

The Philippines and Thailand medical field graduation standards are not the same as in the West. Difficulty encountered by them with qualifying for employment in the West is as much reflective of their knowledge shortcomings as it is with any language difficulties.

It still doesn't stop many (thousands) from successfully getting hired there, but it's tough.... and for good and justifiable reasons.

Anyway, going back to the specific topic at hand, it's good that this protesting movement goes beyond just shear numbers being hired at specific wages and encompasses a myriad of problems with working conditions.

. .

[jaltsc]

...My GF is a cardiac surgery nurse... It's really made us consider her redoing her education in America where she can get paid what she's worth.

Some Thai nursing school degrees are accepted for licensure in the US, but beware: the licensing exams in the US - certainly CA - are written in such complex English sentence form that they serve [purposefully, I'm convinced] as trade barriers to non-native English-speaking nurses no matter their level of medical expertise.

Also, nurse hours in the US are maybe no better than here. and your GF would start off at the bottom of the totem pole with night shifts, no matter her seniority here.

We just skipped the whole thing, and my wife left the profession when we decided to have a baby.

About 10 years ago when still living in the States I lived next to a nurse who was originally from the Philippines. In the Philippines she was a doctor, but couldn't pass the U.S. doctor's licensing exam because she said even though she was pretty fluent in her English second language she said she still had problems in understanding many of the questions. However, she did pass the nurse's licensing exam but said even the English in that exam gave her problems/made it tough to pass. If English nursing exams give Filipino's problems, then the great, great majority of Thai's nurses won't have a chance in passing the exam.

There is a good reason for these demanding English requirements. With the high ratio of patients to doctors in America, nurses perform most of the ongoing care, including monitoring changes in symptoms reported by the patients. They are also expected to notice and report changes in the patients' behaviors and speech. This is in addition to many duties they are overqualified to perform (sponge bats, changing soiled clothes, etc.). The pay is significantly higher in the states, but the hours and duties are grueling.

I doubt many people go into nursing for the pay. The vast majority want to help others. This is just as true in Thailand. However, this is not a good reason for them to be underpaid and overworked. I doubt many people truly appreciate their skills and dedication until they are patients in a hospital. They deserve what they are asking for, and a good deal more.

[Moruya]

Ah the irony, those posters who were so opposed to the rise in the minimum wage now coming out in support of the nurses.

Yes, the nurses need be treated fairly,and so do all low-paid workers.

Do you think the nurses should be paid the same as burger flippers?

[caughtintheact]

This issue is complicated by a lack of resources, i.e., not enough nurses and not enough money to add them to the permanent rolls. In economic terms there is a high demand for nurses, and low supply of both nurses and money to pay them (not just now, but in the future as well).

The solutions include getting more nurses into service to reduce demand for nurses and to reduce the high number of working hours, plus finding more money to pay for them. Since the 17,000 nurses are in the public sector and seem to want to stay there, if government revenue does not allow for satisfying their demands, then the government will have to find ways to increase revenue, i.e., increasing taxes or borrowing money. When taxes go up, there are many impacts, not only on the nurses. Some impacts may be acceptable and some might be quite harmful to others in the economy, such as consumers, and we are all consumers, and thus often negatively impacted by taxes (not just income tax, but VAT as well).

Being able to add the 17,000 nurses to the ranks of permanent civil servants, however, will not touch the problem of over working them. That issue will have to be solved by finding sources of more nurses. If that can be done, it will likely result in more nurses wanting to become civil servants in the future, and another round of tax increases and/or government borrowing, unless enough wealth is being created so that the government is collecting sufficient revenue to compensate.

Let's say that the government is able to find (in the current budget) the revenue to add the 17,000 nurses to the permanent rolls, and also reduces their working hours. Unless a source of more nurses can be found, that will just reduce the number of nurses available at any given time. But life is trade-offs, or, as a famous Nobel Prize winner once said, "There is no free lunch" (no matter how hard we wish it). Try and project the outcomes of too few nurses to meet the needs of patients.

Finding money today to pay for the addition of the nurses to the permanent rolls also means that more money must be found every year (inflation = cost of living increases). Of course governments can borrow money rather than taxing, but eventually have to tax to repay the loans.

The bottom line is that the outcome of the strike will probably address only symptoms, but not the problems, which will rise again at some future date.

[BuddhaMind]

The level of work, care & expertise they provide would be the envy of the USA.

They deserve real jobs, real hours, real respect.

I agree, they deserve a lot more respect. Whenever I've had the unfortunate opportunity to meet them in Thailand, they have been nothing but professional and kind. But knowledgeable? Mmmmmm, I don't think so. So your other line about envy of the USA, I have to disagree. As an American and husband of a registered nurse from California, Thai nurses don't have nearly the extensive training/class time a US nurse is required to have. Now if you're talking about Filipino nurses brought over to the US because of shortages the last decade, well...you have me there, I think most Americans would be envious in comparison to Thais. Filipino nurses in the US are a tough bunch of cookies, not sweet and leave a lot of crumbs. Huh? Though I think Filipino nurses are better trained as well. But certainly not as friendly or caring as a whole.

[Nickymaster]

Without those nice Thai nurses, a visit to a hospital would be worse. Please take care of them.

[atyclb]

Thais don't have male nurses. Do they discriminate in this occupation? They should have more males and trans sexuals. Make more of a circus of it.

There are indeed male nurses, I know one, however the % is low.

[bbradsby]

The level of work, care & expertise they provide would be the envy of the USA.

They deserve real jobs, real hours, real respect.

I agree, they deserve a lot more respect. Whenever I've had the unfortunate opportunity to meet them in Thailand, they have been nothing but professional and kind. But knowledgeable? Mmmmmm, I don't think so. So your other line about envy of the USA, I have to disagree. As an American and husband of a registered nurse from California, Thai nurses don't have nearly the extensive training/class time a US nurse is required to have. Now if you're talking about Filipino nurses brought over to the US because of shortages the last decade, well...you have me there, I think most Americans would be envious in comparison to Thais. Filipino nurses in the US are a tough bunch of cookies, not sweet and leave a lot of crumbs. Huh? Though I think Filipino nurses are better trained as well. But certainly not as friendly or caring as a whole.

I seems clear that you've never personally reviewed the California nursing exam questions, and Philippino nurses are not the subject of my post.

Fact is, some Thai universities' curricula are accepted by California as equivalent to Ca-accredited universities, so their graduates can just proceed directly to the test. That's not my judgement. But the level of grammatical torture in the exam questions was there for obfuscation in my professional, ESL-Certified opinion - a senior Ca Nurses Assn friend who writes & edits books for US Nursing Colleges agreed that exclusionary tactics are in-place against foreign nurses. It is not necessary to have a Bachelor's degree in English to be either fluent in written or spoken Medical English or to be a great nurse. Any good college English teacher would have flunked the test writers due to their use of mind-boggling sentence structure throughout the test.

As to the level of care in US nursing, don't even get me started... been on the receiving end!

[Scott]

I just spent considerable time in the hospital here in Thailand. The standard of nursing care was excellent--every shift and all aspects were great. It was a private hospital with a connection to a nursing school, so it was well staffed and there were plenty of trainees who were present to learn--all very nice and very professional as well.

Filipino and US nurses are not the topic here.

[hellodolly]

Difficult to believe there will be much progress with this situation. There doesn't appear to be any room for government or private graft. Now the rice scheme on the other hand....The government must really hate it when they go up against people who are educated

At the time I am posting this I found it amusing, They are trying so hard to cheat the nurses out of their just rewards while the next post they are looking for 70,000,000,000 Baht.for their in place guaranteed money maker rice scam.

[SouthernMan3]

Thais don't have male nurses. Do they discriminate in this occupation? They should have more males and trans sexuals. Make more of a circus of it.

There goes by sponge bath fantasy.

Is that so ?

Just go buy it if that's what you need !

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed, this topic is not about teachers.

Posts using all caps have been removed as well as replies. If you do not want your post to be deleted, then don't post using all caps as it is bad netiquette.