Tensions Flare As Protesters Urge Yingluck To Quit: Thailand

[batanha]

I was wondering how long it would take the yellow shirts to come back. It took longer than I thought, but here they are. I hope the airports will be protected this time and that we'll have no repeat of what happened 4 years ago.

[asiawatcher]

As far as I can see, the Thai people have the government they deserve.

Sadly you are right.

[badmedicine]

This whole red/yellow, Thaksin/Amnart, Police/Army thing has always been a turf war between two rival mafias. Let them fight it out at the polliing station, not the streets.

Most Thais I know see it that way and are totally uninterested in which bunch of devious thiefs are in charge; they are only brought into the fray when people start doing things that affects their livelihoods, like blockading the airport or surrounding Siam Square.

[DocN]

@GentlemanJim

What?

The question was -and I quote- "What makes the rally illegitimate? "

But you are right: next time , i will answer all possible questions, who may be connected to that question, in the guys mind, who asked that question!

My bad!

[stoli]

I didn't see any truck crashing through a barrier on Thai TV

I would like to know if anyone saw the truck. If they were ramming a barricade with a truck, were they yellow shirts, or red shirts (trying to inflame the situation), in the truck? The police were doing their job correctly if violence was taking place, so you can't really blame them if there was a truck. I had read that with the government invoking the ISA that no recording devices would be allowed, so the truth may be hard to come by.

[chadintheusa]

Anyone living in Thailand for the past decade has witnessed a series of protests and surely has heard people on both sides call for coups and deaths and revoloutions of all sorts. They have urged their followers to occupy government buildings, airports, public spaces. We have seen grenade attacks, gunfire in the streets, and many people die. Some may be shocked at such antics and feel that a protest that uses these tools would be illegitimate. Here in Thailand that is what happens because it has been effective. The current government decided that it would actively undermine this protest even before it started. Yes what the Pitak Siam was calling for was not a good option, but the government gave them what they wanted and demonstrated how heavy handed they were and how intolerant of any dissent they are.

[chadintheusa]

I was wondering how long it would take the yellow shirts to come back. It took longer than I thought, but here they are. I hope the airports will be protected this time and that we'll have no repeat of what happened 4 years ago.

The Pitak Siam group may contain some of the yellow shirts, but it is simplistic to label it as a yellow shirt movement. It doesn't have the backing of all the people who are opposed to the current regime. Thinking purely in terms of red and yellow will not allow for a solution to be found.

[Tanaka]

As I've said before this is all about elite wealthy factions wanting to get more even more ill gotten wealth through controlling the governmnet and being able to steal from the Treasury. As someone once said behind every fortune is a crime, and greed certainly knows no bounds, this is just about money and power.

You don't have to like the Yingluk government but they were legally and convincingly elected, as such it is their turn to get their snouts in the trough and they certainly are. 20,000 is not a great turnout, the mood of the people will not yet tolerate the army having a coup and handing power back to Abhisit like last time. However no doubt that time will come, then we just get the new regime just like the old one, who could really give a sh*t which group robs the country blind? After all nothing of actual significance ever changes.

No, there were not legally elected. Using bought votes and intimidation to win an election does not make it legal.

[whybother]

I didn't see any truck crashing through a barrier on Thai TV

I would like to know if anyone saw the truck. If they were ramming a barricade with a truck, were they yellow shirts, or red shirts (trying to inflame the situation), in the truck? The police were doing their job correctly if violence was taking place, so you can't really blame them if there was a truck. I had read that with the government invoking the ISA that no recording devices would be allowed, so the truth may be hard to come by.

[zydeco]

Anyone living in Thailand for the past decade has witnessed a series of protests and surely has heard people on both sides call for coups and deaths and revoloutions of all sorts. They have urged their followers to occupy government buildings, airports, public spaces. We have seen grenade attacks, gunfire in the streets, and many people die. Some may be shocked at such antics and feel that a protest that uses these tools would be illegitimate. Here in Thailand that is what happens because it has been effective. The current government decided that it would actively undermine this protest even before it started. Yes what the Pitak Siam was calling for was not a good option, but the government gave them what they wanted and demonstrated how heavy handed they were and how intolerant of any dissent they are.

As someone not involved with either side, I do wonder if the government has made this a thousand times worse. Behind the scenes, the army must feel humiliated and disgraced. It has nothing to do with the rally organizer pe se but with the symbol of national authority seemingly being given over to the police. The army, in effect, has been told to shut up, put on parades, and leave the defense of the country to policeman. It's like the SS state establishing rule over the Wehrmacht. What will the army do in light of the immense loss of face they have just suffered? Best for all outsiders to just sit back and watch, I think, instead of take sides.

[BirdsandBooze]

The only place to change a government is at the ballot box, no matter how much you disagree with the encumbent.

[GentlemanJim]

@ DocN

The very last line of the OP is

"This rally is illegitimate," Red Shirt leader Thida Thavornseth said at a news conference Saturday. "We will come out in force if there is any sign of a coup or the government loses control."

Then the very first post of the thread says

What makes the rally illegitimate? Can't people disagree with the reds? I don't agree with the goals of the Pitak Siam, but they should be able to express themselves without a preemptive crackdown. I remember a time when double standards were a bad thing from the reds point of view.

Pure coincidence maybe? Or directly connected perhaps? Jeez!

[hbullinger]

So the police fired tear gas into the protesters because "they did not comply with the rules!"

Where was the police when the Reds terrorised inner Bangkok? There was so much breaking of rules, starting with the red leaders erecting a stage in the middle of a street junction and barricading 4 streets leading to the stage and how would you classify the burning down of shopping malls in terms of rule breaking

Teargas and water canons could have driven the red mob into the waiting buses, ready to take them back to the Isan and the North free of charge.

[farang000999]

so the leader told them to go home are they back at it tomorrow or this the end of it for the immediate future?

[yoshiwara]

Well maybe when you quoted the question, to put it in perspective you should have quoted what prompted the question.

The question was prompted because Thida has issued a statement saying that the protest is illegitimate. Ergo, your reply as to a possible reason that Thida has made that statement raises some points for consideration regarding 'chadintheusa's' post. If Thida cannot see that calling one protest illegitimate and the protest she was a part of not illegitimate then the whole double standards issue is proved.

There is no reason at all for anyone to be in the slightest way bemused at Thida's behaviour. Thida is a former member of the Thai Communist Party and in whatever guise her happy band parade in, Thida herself retains all the rich tradition of Stalinist doublespeak. Useful for Thaksin and disposable to boot. That she can cheer on the muderous red behaviour in 2010 and segue into calling for the police to clear the streets today would cause her not the slightest twitch.

[GentlemanJim]

so the leader told them to go home are they back at it tomorrow or this the end of it for the immediate future?

The best thing that could happen for the Government is that the yellows mobilize now and take over both airports. The ensuing financial dissaster that will engulf this country as a result of rice pledging/comp tablets/fradulent theft of money for flood preparation can then all be blamed on the yellows for bringing the countries tourism industry to its knees yet again. Result - despite the incredulous level of overt corruption - Reds-good, yellows-bad. Simple really, wow, I could be Thaksins advisor!

[hanuman2543]

"I can't stand they disrespect the monarchy, I want gov. to quit" said a farmer. During red shirt demonstration, farmers shouted "we want democracy". Probably, when rural people will be able to afford proper education inThailand, they will stop being someone else's puppets with 500 baht given under the rice bowl and understand the meaning of 'democratic elected government'.

When will any Thai government provide proper education and not only brainwashing for the rural poor, so that they can exercise their right to vote in a democratic manner?

Edited November 24, 2012 by hanuman2543

[chadintheusa]

The only place to change a government is at the ballot box, no matter how much you disagree with the encumbent.

Kim Jong Il and Saddam Hussein, both were winners at the ballot box. When an election is bought or rigged you can understand why people don't feel that an election is an effective tool in removing the encumbent. It's also hard to remove the leader when he isn't even on the ballot. First it was his brother in law, now it is sister as figurehead, why not the maid? If she's good enough to hold your shares, maybe she can keep your seat warm in parliment too.

[Familyonthemove]

I visited the site this morning. The police tried to stop some protesters with CS gas at Makkawan Bridge, but thousands made it to the site on foot. Most people seemed to be middle aged and all were very well behaved. Using tear gas on them would be like gassing your Auntie.

I couldn't estimate the numbers - but it looked more than the Red Shirt rallies at Central World .... but I'd say they were less determined. I think the better-off protesters at this rally are not as tough as the upcountry farmers at the Red Shirt rally, so the rain may have been a reason that started to leave.

Police formed a barrier at the site entrances - but the main purpose seemed to be to search people's bags for weapons. I can't imagine any of the people I met carrying weapons ..... but I guess in Thailand there can be all sorts going on so best to take care.

[LivinLOS]

"I can't stand that they disrespect the king. I want the government to quit," said 48-year-old farmer Namsai Jantarat from the northern province of Chiang Mai.

Ahh well then.. If some farmer doesnt like them, they better step down then..

This is why the cycle continues, they simply dont understand that in a democratic system, some people have to accept the will of the majority and live with it until the next chance to vote.

[Pimay1]

"I can't stand they disrespect the monarchy, I want gov. to quit" said a farmer. During red shirt demonstration, farmers shouted "we want democracy". Probably, when rural people will be able to afford proper education inThailand, they will stop being someone else's puppets with 500 baht given under the rice bowl and understand the meaning of 'democratic elected government'.

When will any Thai government provide proper education and not only brainwashing for the rural poor, so that they can exercise their right to vote in a democratic manner?

How about when pigs fly.

[alekth85]

Each nation, country, have collective state of mind which reflects their culture and history.

If you think you can impose democracy and you think democracy is the "good" choice universally, then you ... don't know. Stop watching TV go fishing .. I don't know what. You're proof why democracy is failing miserably.

Saddam Hussein was a mate with western politicians, same as Gaddafi was. After they stopped being mates, that is.. after two "dictators" decided to do whatever they want, they got "phased out". So your example sucks. Our system and our world is not what teacher repeated to you in school, or mass media.

And for all u farangs... that shit on Thai political or whatever, system ... why are you here ? Pack up your bags and go to your real democracy. Stop forcing your shit on other nations. Including your beliefs, prejudices and thoughts how things should or shouldn't work.

[EarthAlien]

An estimate of 20,000 as opposed to the anticipated 100K plus would seem to be a major vote for the government.

Violence begets violence so better avoided but it appears that there were those out to cause it in the opposition and itchy trigger fingers on the government side.

Hopefully we will see little more from this lot and just let the elected gov get on with it's job whatever it may be.

Those that are not satisfied with whatever will have an opportunity to vote them out in a couple of years time.

I wouldn't say "a vote for the government" but more a vote against a group whose leader is calling for a coup.

Who hopefully will drift away in to obscurity.

Almost through one whole year without a major problem (Big problems in each of the last 5 I believe?). Would be nice wouldn't it. no coups,floods,coloured clashes etc!

This is just a hiccup and a minor one in comparison to what has passed.

Whilst I share your hopes that this episode is just a passing thing and that it won't further develop I have I stirring feeling that it's more than just a hiccup and that we're likely to see more conflicts arising from this which is just a flashpoint in something deeper which has been brewing since the PTP took government.

As for the past 5 years of interrupted peaceful government,- yes that's a fact, and whilst we're on that topic let's not discount the mother of all peaceful disruptions being caused by the red shirt sympathizer/supporters of this government during April/May 2010.

I would love to see peaceful and sensible government but in view of the way in which this current government came to power via 2010 riots followed by a vote buying campaign (both of which funded and instigated by Thaksin) and coupled with the lack of leadership, proper government and massive cronyism then I'm sorry to say that they probably don't deserve a peaceful right of passage into the next elections.

[marshbags]

Thailand, on 2012-11-24 17:16:48, said:

An estimate of 20,000 as opposed to the anticipated 100K plus would seem to be a major vote for the government.

Violence begets violence so better avoided but it appears that there were those out to cause it in the opposition and itchy trigger fingers on the government side.

Hopefully we will see little more from this lot and just let the elected gov get on with it's job whatever it may be.

Those that are not satisfied with whatever will have an opportunity to vote them out in a couple of years time.

...............................

Thanks to the intimidating scare tactics that the government has been putting out plus telling people not to attend, especially in the last week or so prior to many who would have attended have not.

This will not be a true indication of the support they would have got and it in no way gives a vote of support for the Government.

Add to this the police blockades and thier restrictive and intimidatory actions also acconts for many who have been unable to / prevented from attending.

The potential of this becoming a non peaceful event is down to the propogandist government tactics and whipping up fear and expectation of the infamous arrogant attitude of the police who incidently have made it quite clear who,s side they ae on.

They should most definitely be neutral in the way they police and supervise the meeting and be there to control the situation in a peaceful non intimidatory wayand most certainly not panic or give out signals of a not friendly demeanour, while re asruring those attending they are in control and not incite and encourage violence ect ect.

They are supposed to be policing the supporters and making sure everyone is behaving in a responsivble way, first and fourmost they must lead by example.

Unless the government ban further demonstrations you can count on more taking place and definitely growing in strengthin either this format or another.

As peaceful and democratic as the government allow it to be.

AS for the government doing it,s job, until they start representing ALL Thai as they have been given the authority and they swore to do when they took office, they will continue to get more disatisfaction and unrest, not only from their opposition but many of those who have been dishonestly led and are being misrepresented and seeing broken promises broken or abused, time and time again..

They once again did not take office to soley take care of the needs and demands of Thaksin Shinwatara and as for giving out pittances to thier misguided supporters while syphoning off mega baht to enrich their already bursting at the seems bank accounts, eventually the message will become / start getting across / clear as indeed it is already starting to do.

Questions are already being asked about several of their self enriching corrupt laden policies and in particular the rice scheme which rather than making the farmers better off is making them poorer.

In two years time should they continue to stay in power, there will be nothing left in the countries coffers of any significance and democracy as limited as it is in Thailand will have taken on a whole new meaning of dictatorial purportions... Thaksin style

As for seeing a little more of this lot, Thai will most certainly be doing so, along with us farang of course but not of the kind that is benficial to this country and the majority of it,s citizens.

Nothing personal T just a convenient use of your quote to utilise so I can not only offer my reactions to them while providing a bigger more descriptive and bigger picture on my take on them.

May the powers above protect Thailand and it,s citizens from the evil exile who is overseeing this / his government and amazingly openly allowed to do as a criminal fugitive.

marshbags

P.S.

Mnay of us on this forum as fathers and spouses of Thai wives are entitled to an opinion along with voicing opinion and concern as to what the future of this beloved country will be like in thier life times and beyond.

Edited November 24, 2012 by marshbags

[stoli]

I didn't see any truck crashing through a barrier on Thai TV

I would like to know if anyone saw the truck. If they were ramming a barricade with a truck, were they yellow shirts, or red shirts (trying to inflame the situation), in the truck? The police were doing their job correctly if violence was taking place, so you can't really blame them if there was a truck. I had read that with the government invoking the ISA that no recording devices would be allowed, so the truth may be hard to come by.

http://www.thaivisa....00#entry5873805

To: whybother

Thank you so much for the link to the video. Next Question: Where did you get the picture of my golden Retriever! Great picture. Sorry, off topic.

[rijb]

It's a little early for a Dear Santa letter... (see post #54)

Edited November 24, 2012 by rijb

[EarthAlien]

Each nation, country, have collective state of mind which reflects their culture and history.

If you think you can impose democracy and you think democracy is the "good" choice universally, then you ... don't know. Stop watching TV go fishing .. I don't know what. You're proof why democracy is failing miserably.

Saddam Hussein was a mate with western politicians, same as Gaddafi was. After they stopped being mates, that is.. after two "dictators" decided to do whatever they want, they got "phased out". So your example sucks. Our system and our world is not what teacher repeated to you in school, or mass media.

And for all u farangs... that shit on Thai political or whatever, system ... why are you here ? Pack up your bags and go to your real democracy. Stop forcing your shit on other nations. Including your beliefs, prejudices and thoughts how things should or shouldn't work.

I would assert that having an opinion about Thai politics does not infer that one is "shitting" on the Thai political system. Virtually every political system in the world is corrupt in some way or other. Take the US for instance,.. probably the most corrupt of all but at the same time the most sophisticated at hiding it and disguising it as something that it is not. Such systems are not only ripe for criticism (yes... even to the extent of "shitting" on them as they deserve little better) but actually call for criticism by people that would oppose tyranny and corruption.

I may be farang,.. but I live here and have a wife and children here and that qualifies me by my own declaration to express an opinion regardless of whether it is heard as a legal voice or simply one that is willing to be heard.

I long for the day when I can hardly bring to mind the comments left by some members that make the reference "...stop whining, stop interfering, or go home".

This IS home my friend,... and as such I and others like me that have a voice will at least use this forum to make it heard!

Edited November 24, 2012 by EarthAlien

[Toscano]

What a pointless rally , demonstration , riot , call it what you will !!!

If the government is overthrown , there would be a general election ; the result of which would most likely be the same government , led by Yingluck again .

[fabianfred]

I am sure I saw some of those protesters wearing red shirts at an earlier protest. Professionals perhaps ?

They purchased many red shirts hoping to use them to create unrest and point the finger at the opposition....

[brewsterbudgen]

As I've said before this is all about elite wealthy factions wanting to get more even more ill gotten wealth through controlling the governmnet and being able to steal from the Treasury. As someone once said behind every fortune is a crime, and greed certainly knows no bounds, this is just about money and power.

You don't have to like the Yingluk government but they were legally and convincingly elected, as such it is their turn to get their snouts in the trough and they certainly are. 20,000 is not a great turnout, the mood of the people will not yet tolerate the army having a coup and handing power back to Abhisit like last time. However no doubt that time will come, then we just get the new regime just like the old one, who could really give a sh*t which group robs the country blind? After all nothing of actual significance ever changes.

No, there were not legally elected. Using bought votes and intimidation to win an election does not make it legal.

You're very naïve if you think that only applies to one political party in Thailand. The election was monitored and the current government is legal. Presumably another coup would be preferable for some people. Very sad.