Three Detained In Abortion-Clinic Raid

[Lite Beer]

Three detained in abortion-clinic raid

The Nation on Sunday

PATTAYA: -- Police yesterday arrested three people in a raid on an abortion clinic in Pattaya. The body of a female foetus aged around five months recently aborted by a 20-year-old woman was found at the clinic.

Police arrested Arkhom Sarnmano, 31, a motorcycle taxi driver who took the woman to the clinic, as he had allegedly been hired to take many pregnant women to undergo abortions there. Also arrested was Jitra Masiyapak, 21, the clinic's receptionist, and Somjai Buasaen, 45, who allegedly performed the abortion for the woman. The foetus was found in a black plastic bag nearby.

Somjai reportedly confessed that she had operated the clinic for years and had been arrested four times. She was released on bail and reopened it as she earned a lot of money from it, she said. Each abortion cost at least Bt10,000.

Police claimed the actual owner of the clinic was Charnwit Sattayaprasert, a physician who had fled an arrest warrant. Somjai was his assistant, they said.

-- The Nation 2012-11-25

[FOODLOVER]

What are these women to do when they have no income, no employable skills, husbands run off? Men made these ridiculous laws! Vote out the Thai GOP! Women have rights too!

[Markaew]

To me, it's not a matter of women's right to choose, it's pure economics. Many of these women can't afford more children and I know personally there are women using coat hangers to abort. Very dangerous. Many can't afford the pills to abort or even get them. The government needs to legalize abortion for the safety of women.

[lizardtongue]

Whilst I agree with the previous posts, women can obtain free contraception, it takes two to tango!

Rather than have illegal abortion clinics perhaps they should have side street vasectomy dens clinics?

[FOODLOVER]

Whilst I agree with the previous posts, women can obtain free contraception, it takes two to tango!

Rather than have illegal abortion clinics perhaps they should have side street vasectomy dens clinics?

This was tried once, the poor chaps tongue came out out looking like a lizard!

[jaltsc]

Whilst I agree with the previous posts, women can obtain free contraception, it takes two to tango!

Rather than have illegal abortion clinics perhaps they should have side street vasectomy dens clinics?

Those vasectomy clinics will be empty, but the ones next door injecting paraffin into penises will have lines around the block. However, if it renders them impotent, who cares how it's accomplished? In this case stupidity attains the same goal as responsibility.

[DP25]

Whilst I agree with the previous posts, women can obtain free contraception, it takes two to tango!

Rather than have illegal abortion clinics perhaps they should have side street vasectomy dens clinics?

They already are clinics in Thailand that perform free vasectomies. Thailand has been offering free vasectomies to people for decades in order to lower the birth rate. I believe the clinic associated with Cabbages and Condoms performs them for example.

[asiawatcher]

Such an important raid to make headlines, when there are many in Thailand. But aborting at 5 months is very dangerous. It does not state if Somjai was a doctor or male nurse etc. The plight of the women is also very serious and should be their choice but not through a backyard life threatening situation.

[DocN]

It is high time, that Thai- men are held responsible for their "offspring"! Not only in theory, but enforcing it! I guess, that would get unwanted pregnancies down to a record low.

[Payboy]

I say to those who are against abortion - okay, don't have one.

[abhaya]

I imagine if these deadbeat dads were forced to pay child support, they'd think twice before dipping their wicks, or at least suit up. This said it is on the onus of women (I know it's not fair but it is just a fact), to take responsibility for their bodies and their reproductive functions. Expecting guys to do it, especially in Thailand just ain't gonna happen. As been oft said if men could get pregnant the human race would died out a long time ago. Women should be given the right to choose!

[ridkun]

Make it legal. I'm not a girl but even it's legal I believe no girls will want to go through that scary process anyway. But first thing we might have to shut up those high class women who are shouting 'immoral!' first.

[phuturatica]

I didn't realise abortion clinics were illegal?

I thought it was acceptable to have an abortion in Thailand?!

[Unwisemonkey]

I find abortion to be barbaric and murderous. I am pro-life. However it's not an opinion I think should be mandated by governments or individuals with agendas because I believe civil liberties trump opinions such as these. Furthermore Thailand has a long way to go in the way of securing a woman's rights as a human being. Let alone a host of other civil rights for individuals. I was not always pro-life either but in a country that has only prospered since giving women more reproductive rights, Thailand needs to quit persecuting women and the people who choose to aid them in making such a difficult decision. Otherwise you'll end up with dead mothers and fetus's as they force them further into underground clinics and unsafe procedures.

[Unwisemonkey]

It is high time, that Thai- men are held responsible for their "offspring"! Not only in theory, but enforcing it! I guess, that would get unwanted pregnancies down to a record low.

I agree for the most part, but there is a culture of shutting a father out of the child's life completely when things go sour; regardless of mitigating circumstances. The pendulum swings both ways and while there are probably a majority of detestable deadbeat Dads out there in the LOS there are also good fathers out there that get a raw deal. What father is going to feel compelled to pay monies and never see the child they love, while the maternal family openly chastises the father in front of the child, and he has no rights to making any meaningful decisions about the child's welfare. In affect paying to let the child be raised in a manner that the father thinks is inappropriate. Thai men get a raw deal as much as any Farang. The ideology of maternal wisdom trumping all is just as bad here as it is in the west and there are several cases, even recently that illustrate this: What of the boy who killed his mother for not allowing him to play video games. The father was much more sensitive to the needs of the boy and warned his ex to not chastise him. Another case about a year ago involved a police officer who dutifully came to visit his children living with his ex every weekend. The police officer couldn't take the alienation anymore and ended up murdering his ex. Murder of course is not justifiable but it illustrates my point, There seems to be no accountability for both parties. The vile actions and words spoken from a woman's mouth, can not be ignored.

[DP25]

I didn't realise abortion clinics were illegal?

I thought it was acceptable to have an abortion in Thailand?!

It's restricted, only a limited number of clinics can legally do it. Only permitted for health reasons, which includes mental health, or rape. Strangely there are cheap legal clinics, yet people still go to these expensive illegal clinics like in the article

[geriatrickid]

Whilst I agree with the previous posts, women can obtain free contraception, it takes two to tango!

Rather than have illegal abortion clinics perhaps they should have side street vasectomy dens clinics?

Not exactly. Effective emergency contraception such as Plan B is difficult to obtain and is not free. (Plan B prevents the attachment of a fertilized egg to the uterine tissue. It is not an abortion drug.) Plan B is basically a hormone that is a supervised OTC in many countries.

Standard contraception is not foolproof. Condoms can break, the "pill" can sometimes not work and there can just be circumstances such as rape where the rapist doesn't bother with a condom. Sometimes women that think they will be able to carry a pregnancy through have a life changing event such as the loss of employment or the refusal of the father to help. Women do not wake up with a desire to go and have an abortion. It is often an emotionally exhausting and stressful event.

[geriatrickid]

I didn't realise abortion clinics were illegal?

I thought it was acceptable to have an abortion in Thailand?!

It's restricted, only a limited number of clinics can legally do it. Only permitted for health reasons, which includes mental health, or rape. Strangely there are cheap legal clinics, yet people still go to these expensive illegal clinics like in the article

For reference sake, it is illegal to have an abortion for;

Foetal impairment (e.g. a foetus with no brain, or deformed) or for Economic or social reasons.

Many of the large hospitals will not perform abortions and in those that do, patient privacy is not necessarily respected.

[geriatrickid]

I didn't realise abortion clinics were illegal?

I thought it was acceptable to have an abortion in Thailand?!

Nope. Next to impossible for rural area women to access an abortion even if the woman's life is in peril.

[DP25]

Whilst I agree with the previous posts, women can obtain free contraception, it takes two to tango!

Rather than have illegal abortion clinics perhaps they should have side street vasectomy dens clinics?

Not exactly. Effective emergency contraception such as Plan B is difficult to obtain and is not free. (Plan B prevents the attachment of a fertilized egg to the uterine tissue. It is not an abortion drug.) Plan B is basically a hormone that is a supervised OTC in many countries.

I don't remember the brand here, but you can get morning after pills in almost every pharmacy in Thailand. It's like 100 baht, but no isn't free.

[johnnynmonic]

I find abortion to be barbaric and murderous. I am pro-life. However it's not an opinion I think should be mandated by governments or individuals with agendas because I believe civil liberties trump opinions such as these. Furthermore Thailand has a long way to go in the way of securing a woman's rights as a human being. Let alone a host of other civil rights for individuals. I was not always pro-life either but in a country that has only prospered since giving women more reproductive rights, Thailand needs to quit persecuting women and the people who choose to aid them in making such a difficult decision. Otherwise you'll end up with dead mothers and fetus's as they force them further into underground clinics and unsafe procedures.

So at what age should a child be before they are protected by law? Should we have a trial period, say, five months, and if the mother doesn't find it convenient, she has the right to off them? No offense, but if you're pro-life, it doesn't make sense to say "I think it's murder, but other people must have their civil liberties." If it's murder [and it is], it's wrong.

[asiawatcher]

The right to lifer's here can make a case for sure. Circumstances surrounding pregnancies and the termination of same, is no easy decision if you are Thai. It falls back on their beliefs and especially about merit in the future to appease the past and their karmic destiny.

Unless you have been a party to participating in aborting a pregnancy you will not understand or even come close to the anguish by the majority of mothers let alone the fathers. Most Thai girls when finding out they are pregnant, want to keep their offspring. It is a drastic act usually brought on by destitution and despair. A foetus is fully developed by 12 weeks and from that point on just gets larger in the womb. To terminate at 20 weeks is an horrific act. But the right for the decision should still be up to the individual/s, as sad as that can be.

[Unwisemonkey]

I find abortion to be barbaric and murderous. I am pro-life. However it's not an opinion I think should be mandated by governments or individuals with agendas because I believe civil liberties trump opinions such as these. Furthermore Thailand has a long way to go in the way of securing a woman's rights as a human being. Let alone a host of other civil rights for individuals. I was not always pro-life either but in a country that has only prospered since giving women more reproductive rights, Thailand needs to quit persecuting women and the people who choose to aid them in making such a difficult decision. Otherwise you'll end up with dead mothers and fetus's as they force them further into underground clinics and unsafe procedures.

So at what age should a child be before they are protected by law? Should we have a trial period, say, five months, and if the mother doesn't find it convenient, she has the right to off them? No offense, but if you're pro-life, it doesn't make sense to say "I think it's murder, but other people must have their civil liberties." If it's murder [and it is], it's wrong.

My point is it's not my decision to make for another person regardless of my beliefs, and people will continue to do it anyways. The best possible outcome for everyone and society is without dispute to give women avenues of choice be it abortion which I find horrific or adoption, or whatever choices are available. We can not live in the dark ages on this topic don't be so naive. Women have been aborting pregnancies for hundreds of years and now we have advanced enough to make it safe instead of risking the death of two people. I'd love for the world to be ideal and every unwanted pregnancy could be brought to term and into an adoptive loving family, but that's just not the real world. Go to an orphanage in Bangkok (I have) and you'll see what happens to these unwanted children if they are brought into this world. They are victims of human trafficking and who know's what horrors they have had to endure.

[oldthaihand99]

It's restricted, only a limited number of clinics can legally do it. Only permitted for health reasons, which includes mental health, or rape. Strangely there are cheap legal clinics, yet people still go to these expensive illegal clinics like in the article

So if a Thai girl wants an abortion, is this all she has to do, either:

1. Say she was raped, or

2. Pretend to be "mental", or

3. Bribe a doctor?...or

4. Go to an illegal clinic.

How cheap are abortions at the "cheap legal clinics"? 30 baht? 1000 baht?

Edited November 25, 2012 by oldthaihand99

[oldthaihand99]

Nope. Next to impossible for rural area women to access an abortion even if the woman's life is in peril.

Really, how difficult can this be?

A. Just say she was raped or act mental (crazy or suicidal)? Thai women are great actresses.

B. Or take a bus to a city for a cheap abortion?

[DP25]

It's restricted, only a limited number of clinics can legally do it. Only permitted for health reasons, which includes mental health, or rape. Strangely there are cheap legal clinics, yet people still go to these expensive illegal clinics like in the article

So if a Thai girl wants an abortion, is this all she has to do, either:

1. Say she was raped, or

2. Pretend to be "mental", or

3. Bribe a doctor?...or

4. Go to an illegal clinic.

How cheap are abortions at the "cheap legal clinics"? 30 baht? 1000 baht?

You don't even have to pretend to be mental, being stressed out or emotionally unready is enough. The mental health requirement is very lenient, just a formality. By cheap I mean around 1000 baht. Illegal private clinics can be a lot more expensive, a friend's girl paid 8,000 at one. Many people are unaware that legal options exist, the mental health exception was only added in the mid 2000s, and many prefer a private clinic anyway. One woman told me she was afraid the legal place would be like a factory assembly line, and thought the illegal clinic had better service and they'd also perform religious ceremonies for the fetus afterwards.

As for access, there are places in every region of the country to get it done. You might have to take a bus province or two away but that's about it.

[oldthaihand99]

It's restricted, only a limited number of clinics can legally do it. Only permitted for health reasons, which includes mental health, or rape. Strangely there are cheap legal clinics, yet people still go to these expensive illegal clinics like in the article

So if a Thai girl wants an abortion, is this all she has to do, either:

1. Say she was raped, or

2. Pretend to be "mental", or

3. Bribe a doctor?...or

4. Go to an illegal clinic.

How cheap are abortions at the "cheap legal clinics"? 30 baht? 1000 baht?

You don't even have to pretend to be mental, being stressed out or emotionally unready is enough. The mental health requirement is very lenient, just a formality. By cheap I mean around 1000 baht. Illegal private clinics can be a lot more expensive, a friend's girl paid 8,000 at one. Many people are unaware that legal options exist, the mental health exception was only added in the mid 2000s, and many prefer a private clinic anyway. One woman told me she was afraid the legal place would be like a factory assembly line, and thought the illegal clinic had better service and they'd also perform religious ceremonies for the fetus afterwards.

As for access, there are places in every region of the country to get it done. You might have to take a bus province or two away but that's about it.

So, in effect, abortion is essentially legal in Thailand?

Why 1000 baht; what happened to free or 30 baht universal health care in Siam?

Edited November 25, 2012 by oldthaihand99

[DP25]

So, in effect, abortion is essentially legal in Thailand?

Why 1000 baht; what happened to free or 30 baht universal health care in Siam?

It's not covered by the government health plan, so you always have to pay. It isn't difficult to get if you are willing to travel a bit, but it's heavily restricted and only certain places can do it legally. The average hospital will not do it at all unless the mother is dieing.

[oldthaihand99]

So, in effect, abortion is essentially legal in Thailand?

Why 1000 baht; what happened to free or 30 baht universal health care in Siam?

It's not covered by the government health plan, so you always have to pay. It isn't difficult to get if you are willing to travel a bit, but it's heavily restricted and only certain places can do it legally. The average hospital will not do it at all unless the mother is dieing.

Heavily restricted - as in - few places can do it legally? Or few places are willing to do it, as in the hospitals you mentioned? Or both?

Why can "only certain places" do it legally - they are the only ones with doctors qualified to perform abortions?

How is a Thai girl to know where she can obtain a legal abortion virtually on demand?

Edited November 26, 2012 by oldthaihand99

[KuhnPaen]

Going rate on an aborted fetus is 5 grand USD...FYI. They use Them to make Gumon Thong (Ghost baby slaves). Remember that Brit a while back that had 5 of them in his suitcase heading for Taiwan? He wasn't exactly a lone wolf. Thailand has the second highest rate of teen pregnancy in the world, and one of the highest rates of abortions even though it is illegal. Allegedly, 3 years after the abortion, the ghost of the aborted baby comes back to haunt the mother. Thankfully, the local noodle vendor also moonlights as a "ghost fetus appeasement specialist". Usually, some toys or candy will get the spirit to calm down.

Yes, the Thais really believe this.

There's a book on it called "The Haunting Fetus" by Marc L. Moskowitz.

Some freaky stuff.

Bottom line...it's illegal because they are a Buddhist country and abortion is an even greater "sin" than in Christianity. You can't escape Karma, or say a prayer to make it better. All they can do is buy toys and candy for the severely pissed off baby ghost that will plague the mother for years afterward. This is Thailand after all, and even the ghosts here will cut you a deal.