Handing 2010 Cases Over To International Criminal Court Discussed: Thailand

[Roadman]

Can't any of the posters on here see that there is a possibility that the government simply want the investigation to be seen as impartial and independent? If the government were to try these cases in Thai courts and the decision reached went against your preconceived notions of what happened, would you support the verdict and say it was a fair...I don't think so...you would argue that the verdict was tainted and fixed by the government.

Well you can't fix the ICC, and any verdict from them would carry much more weight internationally. Surely if you want the truth to come out, you would want the investigators to be unbiased and impartial?

MY money is on the following scenario: the government has investigated thoroughly and knows that the red shirts will be exonerated and that the army and Abhisit (who lied consistently throughout the confrontation) will be found at fault. Therefore the government doesn't want this tainted or buried, but wants it out in the open and untainted...hence they want the ICC to come in and endorse their feelings.

ONe of the more sensible comments I read said that the ICC would not take the case because it is political...that may be right, but maybe they will want to help reconciliation by taking a firm position. The ICCs verdict will not help people with blinkers on...their minds are made up already, but it will sway some of the less partisan, and open minded types, if, indeed there are any left in Thailand.

Actually, most of the people responding to this thread aren't objecting to the ICC taking an impartial look at this case, they are deriding the PT government's efforts to manipulate the ICC by telling them "Look into this case, but don't look into that case".

Agreed.

But I do not see how the ICC can take any one event out of the lead up and actual events of 2010 to only find a government guilty, and not also as the recent thai report tabled found that the UDD and Reds were just as guilty. One only has to recall Sah Dueang before he was dealt to spouting of his mouth on international news media about who was in charge and it was up to him to say when it was over. Somehow I think this is just time buying bull crap and will never get anywhere near the ICC as the Dubai master mind behind the whole deal will also be fingered by a more subjective non thai body.

[koosdeboer]

" The government is seeking an investigation by the ICC into the Democrat-led administration's involvement in the killings"

So the only thing they want to be investigated is the involvement of the democrat led government not the involvement of the red shirts or men in black.

​Double standards again?

[Nickymaster]

Can't any of the posters on here see that there is a possibility that the government simply want the investigation to be seen as impartial and independent? If the government were to try these cases in Thai courts and the decision reached went against your preconceived notions of what happened, would you support the verdict and say it was a fair...I don't think so...you would argue that the verdict was tainted and fixed by the government.

Well you can't fix the ICC, and any verdict from them would carry much more weight internationally. Surely if you want the truth to come out, you would want the investigators to be unbiased and impartial?

MY money is on the following scenario: the government has investigated thoroughly and knows that the red shirts will be exonerated and that the army and Abhisit (who lied consistently throughout the confrontation) will be found at fault. Therefore the government doesn't want this tainted or buried, but wants it out in the open and untainted...hence they want the ICC to come in and endorse their feelings.

ONe of the more sensible comments I read said that the ICC would not take the case because it is political...that may be right, but maybe they will want to help reconciliation by taking a firm position. The ICCs verdict will not help people with blinkers on...their minds are made up already, but it will sway some of the less partisan, and open minded types, if, indeed there are any left in Thailand.

Actually, most of the people responding to this thread aren't objecting to the ICC taking an impartial look at this case, they are deriding the PT government's efforts to manipulate the ICC by telling them "Look into this case, but don't look into that case".

Agreed.

But I do not see how the ICC can take any one event out of the lead up and actual events of 2010 to only find a government guilty, and not also as the recent thai report tabled found that the UDD and Reds were just as guilty. One only has to recall Sah Dueang before he was dealt to spouting of his mouth on international news media about who was in charge and it was up to him to say when it was over. Somehow I think this is just time buying bull crap and will never get anywhere near the ICC as the Dubai master mind behind the whole deal will also be fingered by a more subjective non thai body.

Most probably it has been said numerous times but this ICC (one off ) thing is just a show to:

1. Keep the Reds happy. Apparently the millions (from the 2010 protest), tablets, rice buying etc they received is not enough for them.

2. To a lesser extent, put pressure on Abhisit to accept Thaksin's whitewash bill.

[Baerboxer]

Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul will discuss with other agencies on Thursday the draft recognition of the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court to probe the deaths of 98 people during the crackdown on red-shirt protesters in 2010.

Why doesn't the Cousin Foreign Minister just simply advocate blanket ratification of the Rome Statute, instead of this one-off, pick and chose, tactic?

That way the ICC can investigate all potential cases, not just the ones that don't involve the kinfolk of the Cousin Foreign Minister.

.

You answer your own question. PTP want to cherry pick the cases they ask ICC to investigate. Note the wording - "The government is seeking an investigation by the ICC into the Democrat-led administration's involvement in the killings". A very specific term of reference. Do not investigate the killings per se, but only the Democrats involvement; do not investigate other parties possible involvement or those terrorists inciting violence, and burning the city.

I suspect the ICC will give them the appropriate answer when they put this request forward.

[Baerboxer]

The government is seeking an investigation by the ICC into the Democrat-led administration's involvement in the killings.

Implying the democrats were responsible? What involvement? Reds were armed, firing M79 grenades, burning Bangkok. Do you think that will not be revealed as to the true intention of the red rabble? I would love to see the adjudication on this from the ICC once and for all.

The ICC are unlikely to want to be involved. But, you are right. There is a strong suggestion here that the democrats were involved and that there is evidence so strong that the PTP are happy to ask the ICC to investigate. The PTP know the chances of the ICC accepting are slim - but hope lots of people will believe "there's no smoke without fire" and that the PTP must have evidence or they would not ask the ICC. All "smoke and mirrors" but quite effective political trickery. Wonder who the mastermind is?

[Baerboxer]

Can't any of the posters on here see that there is a possibility that the government simply want the investigation to be seen as impartial and independent? If the government were to try these cases in Thai courts and the decision reached went against your preconceived notions of what happened, would you support the verdict and say it was a fair...I don't think so...you would argue that the verdict was tainted and fixed by the government.

Well you can't fix the ICC, and any verdict from them would carry much more weight internationally. Surely if you want the truth to come out, you would want the investigators to be unbiased and impartial?

MY money is on the following scenario: the government has investigated thoroughly and knows that the red shirts will be exonerated and that the army and Abhisit (who lied consistently throughout the confrontation) will be found at fault. Therefore the government doesn't want this tainted or buried, but wants it out in the open and untainted...hence they want the ICC to come in and endorse their feelings.

ONe of the more sensible comments I read said that the ICC would not take the case because it is political...that may be right, but maybe they will want to help reconciliation by taking a firm position. The ICCs verdict will not help people with blinkers on...their minds are made up already, but it will sway some of the less partisan, and open minded types, if, indeed there are any left in Thailand.

You really believe what you've written? A government that is openly raping the country, lining its own pockets, ignoring the law and admits to lying repeatedly is concerned about seeing fair play and justice?

How about this scenario someone as conjectured evidence and the PTP are arrogant enough to believe the ICC can be persuaded to just look at the little piece of the picture it wants to show? They obviously judge everyone by their own standards.

I don't gamble - otherwise I would happily accept your money.

[smedly]

The government is seeking an investigation by the ICC into the Democrat-led administration's involvement in the killings.

Implying the democrats were responsible? What involvement? Reds were armed, firing M79 grenades, burning Bangkok. Do you think that will not be revealed as to the true intention of the red rabble? I would love to see the adjudication on this from the ICC once and for all.

The ICC are unlikely to want to be involved. But, you are right. There is a strong suggestion here that the democrats were involved and that there is evidence so strong that the PTP are happy to ask the ICC to investigate. The PTP know the chances of the ICC accepting are slim - but hope lots of people will believe "there's no smoke without fire" and that the PTP must have evidence or they would not ask the ICC. All "smoke and mirrors" but quite effective political trickery. Wonder who the mastermind is?

Mate there's no question who was involved, I'll spell it out for you

The sitting government

The Red Shirt movement

Thaksin S

The Thai Police

The Thai Army

................. The list goes on but you get the idea

Extreme measures were taken to end an extreme civil disturbance, you could say there was right and wrong on both sides, did the Army use unnecessary force ? were they justified if under armed attack ? did the reds have arms ? did they use them ?

I think most people know the answer to the four questions above - further to that - did the sitting government do all they could to prevent deaths during the disturbances, was it the responsibility of the government to end the disturbance ? should the government have just ignored the disturbances and let it continue unchallenged, should the reds have packed up and gone home when the government gave them what they asked for ? why didn't they ?

For me those last two questions are the key - who ordered the protestors to remain and set the scene for a showdown that resulted in deaths on the streets of Bangkok ? and in my opinion a devicive and planned ending to incite more hatred.