Another Sorry Story

[Oak]

Very easy for the young guy not to remember, or admit anything .

He doesn't need to remember or admit anything, the incident was captured on CCTV and clearly shows a speeding driver crashing into them from behind. It could not be more cut and dried.

If you watched the video in its entirety, the police tried to pretend for a while that the video did not exist, and threatened to hold his passport. Once he lawyered up and let them know he had the footage, they let him go. Disgusting.

Sure I watched several times, but I look at it as not complete , I also do not have a blinkered attitude.

[carmine]

The young lady is gone, sad & no discussion will change that.

Just amazed at some people's attitude & comprehension.

To softgeorge,chooka, chrissables & co:

where do you practice your field of accident investigation?

Where are your so called colleages?

All very quick to blame the Thai man & the Thai system, but you see no fault at all in the Austarlian's situation.

As mentioned before, being Australian,according to you, should have had sense to follow rules & regulations drummed into him over the years

You sir are as biased as they come, Australians ,you only have a singular blinkered view. Very easy for the young guy not to remember, or admit anything . As the time goes on it's a coping mechanism & justifying the situation to himself.

I wonder what the poor's parents attitude towards him would be if they were aware of all the facts & not what was told by him and the sensationalised TV program.

So far:

Driving licence? ( Bike or International )?

Drinking?

Eratic driving?

No helmets?

I do feel very sorry for them, but I also believe in fair reporting & comments from in your words such knowledgable, educated & trained people.

This is all very well but where do you stand on extorting large sums of money from victims?

Sure Carmine. I as a foreigner it's against my grain, I live here so I tend to accept the cultural quirk as previously explained.

I also understand his reaction to that propsal / request.

But I still fail to understand where the document he was asked to sign was a confession, it was never shown, as far as I can see no one else has seen it or the translation, his interpratation.

Why was the Australian Embassy not advised of his dilemna? Was there any feeling of guilt?Surely he would have been insured, a quick call would have given him an idea on procedures.

No mention of funds transferring hands,only it would have cost so much .......................................

Too many unanswerd questions & loopholes for anyone to pass a justified judgement.

Some of the posters on here, treat some foreignerswith a hollier then thou attitude.

Whats the "cultural quirk" you mention?

[Oak]

What cultural quirks I mention? Oh my who hasn't been reading the last few posts & just itching for a sensless argument. You obviously do live here, most of your comments are anti Thai, so I will not waste my time indulging you.

[carmine]

What cultural quirks I mention? Oh my who hasn't been reading the last few posts & just itching for a sensless argument. You obviously do live here, most of your comments are anti Thai, so I will not waste my time indulging you.

Yes you sound like you live here or have been for a couple of months atleast. No i didn't think you'd have an arguement to my question! And such a stupid apologist comment about me making anti thai comments. You sound rather stupid young man. Its not anti thai to make a comment saying extortion is wrong is it! No ofcourse its not. Its not anti thai to say you disagree with an innocent party being blamed (because they are a guest in the country) is wrong is.

Its purely being against dishonest anti social behaviour. Get over yourself and please don't do the thais the huge diservice as implying such behaviour is part of their cultural quirks because its not

[Oak]

What cultural quirks I mention? Oh my who hasn't been reading the last few posts & just itching for a sensless argument. You obviously do live here, most of your comments are anti Thai, so I will not waste my time indulging you.

Yes you sound like you live here or have been for a couple of months atleast. No i didn't think you'd have an arguement to my question! And such a stupid apologist comment about me making anti thai comments. You sound rather stupid young man. Its not anti thai to make a comment saying extortion is wrong is it! No ofcourse its not. Its not anti thai to say you disagree with an innocent party being blamed (because they are a guest in the country) is wrong is.

Its purely being against dishonest anti social behaviour. Get over yourself and please don't do the thais the huge diservice as implying such behaviour is part of their cultural quirks because its not

Perhaps reading your comment & posts over the last few years have given me the right to make a comment about your blinkered , racist attitude.

I will now go away & ponder the meaning of " stupid" as you have labeled me.

[Rooo]

Enough with the personal attacks. if you can't keep it civil , do not post.

[TPI]

I watched the full video and read the article. Jamie Keith says; (“I was vulnerable and they were obviously after one thing and one thing only, it was my money. It was a way to bribe my way out of it"). But was it? That was only his opinion, but nowhere has he mentioned that the police actually asked him for money or how much money was involved.

Also the fact is that the couple were not wearing helmets, which is a negligent act and against the law, plus considering that the couple had been out during that night, it is possible that they had been drinking, as many of the pictures of them out dining in the video have an alcoholic drink on the table.

If you look carefully at the video, it appears that Jamie Keith did not indicate he was going to turn right and the other motorcyclist attempted to over take him, then suddenly Jamie Keith pulls sharply over to the right, hence the collision.

Another point is, that although the other party was also not wearing a helmet, there is no mention of the extent as to what injuries he sustained during the impact? Because I very much doubt that the guy actually got up and simply walked away from this.

These are only my observations and it appears that the couple were not entirely blameless regarding this tragic event and therefore unjustified in portraying the other party and the police as the complete wrong doers in this case, plus the allegations being made against the police here are unfounded without any evidence to back it up.

Extremely tragic and my heartfelt condolences go out to the girl’s finance and all others concerned.

As usual with these themes, I hope the emphasis will not turn towards Thai bashing and as a platform for those who have extreme prejudices about Thailand as a whole to air their views.

The question should be, were the police right to place the blame solely on Jamie Keith? As he allegedly claims? ALLEGELY. As after perusing the video and article, in my opinion the police were justified in this case to want to bring charges against him and also in my opinion, I believe Jamie Keith got off lightly, that’s legally, because tragically he has lost his finance, and will never recover from that.

Obviously you didn't watch the Father of the girl when he mentioned $15K-30K, I'm just wondering what satanee dum ruat you are attached to?? In almost any country in the world it is a serious offence to hit someone from behind, wearing a helmet or not regardless! It is accepted at law to be prima facae to the charge of careless driving!!

[BlackWolf]

I watched the full video and read the article. Jamie Keith says; (“I was vulnerable and they were obviously after one thing and one thing only, it was my money. It was a way to bribe my way out of it"). But was it? That was only his opinion, but nowhere has he mentioned that the police actually asked him for money or how much money was involved.

Also the fact is that the couple were not wearing helmets, which is a negligent act and against the law, plus considering that the couple had been out during that night, it is possible that they had been drinking, as many of the pictures of them out dining in the video have an alcoholic drink on the table.

If you look carefully at the video, it appears that Jamie Keith did not indicate he was going to turn right and the other motorcyclist attempted to over take him, then suddenly Jamie Keith pulls sharply over to the right, hence the collision.

Another point is, that although the other party was also not wearing a helmet, there is no mention of the extent as to what injuries he sustained during the impact? Because I very much doubt that the guy actually got up and simply walked away from this.

These are only my observations and it appears that the couple were not entirely blameless regarding this tragic event and therefore unjustified in portraying the other party and the police as the complete wrong doers in this case, plus the allegations being made against the police here are unfounded without any evidence to back it up.

Extremely tragic and my heartfelt condolences go out to the girl’s finance and all others concerned.

As usual with these themes, I hope the emphasis will not turn towards Thai bashing and as a platform for those who have extreme prejudices about Thailand as a whole to air their views.

The question should be, were the police right to place the blame solely on Jamie Keith? As he allegedly claims? ALLEGELY. As after perusing the video and article, in my opinion the police were justified in this case to want to bring charges against him and also in my opinion, I believe Jamie Keith got off lightly, that’s legally, because tragically he has lost his finance, and will never recover from that.

Obviously you didn't watch the Father of the girl when he mentioned $15K-30K, I'm just wondering what satanee dum ruat you are attached to?? In almost any country in the world it is a serious offence to hit someone from behind, wearing a helmet or not regardless! It is accepted at law to be prima facae to the charge of careless driving!!

Thai TV chanel 3 had a story of this accedent in the morning news. Just now my wife told me that the same TV chanel in the evening news told that the police chief had been sacked. seems thar justice hav occured.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Rooo

[Tony121]

The thai guy was a cleaner at one of the hotels so very unlikely he would of had the money or influence to bribe the police.

[Rooo]

Thai TV chanel 3 had a story of this accedent in the morning news. Just now my wife told me that the same TV chanel in the evening news told that the police chief had been sacked. seems thar justice hav occured.

Here you go.

Thank you Blackwolf.

[chooka]

I watched the full video and read the article. Jamie Keith says; (“I was vulnerable and they were obviously after one thing and one thing only, it was my money. It was a way to bribe my way out of it"). But was it? That was only his opinion, but nowhere has he mentioned that the police actually asked him for money or how much money was involved.

Also the fact is that the couple were not wearing helmets, which is a negligent act and against the law, plus considering that the couple had been out during that night, it is possible that they had been drinking, as many of the pictures of them out dining in the video have an alcoholic drink on the table.

If you look carefully at the video, it appears that Jamie Keith did not indicate he was going to turn right and the other motorcyclist attempted to over take him, then suddenly Jamie Keith pulls sharply over to the right, hence the collision.

Another point is, that although the other party was also not wearing a helmet, there is no mention of the extent as to what injuries he sustained during the impact? Because I very much doubt that the guy actually got up and simply walked away from this.

These are only my observations and it appears that the couple were not entirely blameless regarding this tragic event and therefore unjustified in portraying the other party and the police as the complete wrong doers in this case, plus the allegations being made against the police here are unfounded without any evidence to back it up.

Extremely tragic and my heartfelt condolences go out to the girl’s finance and all others concerned.

As usual with these themes, I hope the emphasis will not turn towards Thai bashing and as a platform for those who have extreme prejudices about Thailand as a whole to air their views.

The question should be, were the police right to place the blame solely on Jamie Keith? As he allegedly claims? ALLEGELY. As after perusing the video and article, in my opinion the police were justified in this case to want to bring charges against him and also in my opinion, I believe Jamie Keith got off lightly, that’s legally, because tragically he has lost his finance, and will never recover from that.

Obviously you didn't watch the Father of the girl when he mentioned $15K-30K, I'm just wondering what satanee dum ruat you are attached to?? In almost any country in the world it is a serious offence to hit someone from behind, wearing a helmet or not regardless! It is accepted at law to be prima facae to the charge of careless driving!!

Thai TV chanel 3 had a story of this accedent in the morning news. Just now my wife told me that the same TV chanel in the evening news told that the police chief had been sacked. seems thar justice hav occured.

Sacked or transfered?

[BigC]

been all over channel 3 this story last night and this morning. they havew moved the cheif og police to another amper

[Tropicalevo]

Transferred. Standard practice whilst an investigation is carried out.

Article in 'the paper that we cannot mention'.

[Boater]

Transferred. Standard practice whilst an investigation is carried out.

Article in 'the paper that we cannot mention'.

Bbk post or Phuket wan , we can mention the paper , just not link to them

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Tropicalevo]

Bkk Post web site.

[Boater]

Bkk Post web site.

Thanks ...

[Rooo]

Tourist condemns Thai police injustice

• Published: 30/11/2012 at 03:40 PM
  
• 
  

Thai police are again under fire overseas after an Australian TV report about a man who lost his girlfriend in an accident and was then allegedly framed by police on Koh Samui.

Tragedy in Thailand, an episode of the popular TV show A Current Affair on Australia's Channel 9 network, accused Thai police of injustice and corruption.

Police responded on Friday by reopening the case and transferring the chief of the station in charge of the original investigation. However, the chief denied allegations of corruption.

Continued:

.bangkokpost.com/news/local/323942/tourist-condemned-thai-police-for-injustice

Edited December 1, 2012 by Rooo

[chooka]

Tourist condemns Thai police injustice

• Published: 30/11/2012 at 03:40 PM
  
• 
  

Thai police are again under fire overseas after an Australian TV report about a man who lost his girlfriend in an accident and was then allegedly framed by police on Koh Samui.

Tragedy in Thailand, an episode of the popular TV show A Current Affair on Australia's Channel 9 network, accused Thai police of injustice and corruption.

Police responded on Friday by reopening the case and transferring the chief of the station in charge of the original investigation. However, the chief denied allegations of corruption.

Continued:

.bangkokpost.com/news/local/323942/tourist-condemned-thai-police-for-injustice

Was also on radio news in Australia which I listen to. They said that police officers (plural) had been moved and the investigation re opened. DFAT (foriegn affairs) has refused to comment on the case at this stage. The Michelle Smith story was also raised again and the damage to Thai tourism. Not much more at this stage.

I am sure Channel 9 Australia (produced the story in the topic) will be running with a fresh story, shortly.

Edited December 1, 2012 by chooka

[Iusedtocycle]

I am well aware of the rules as it is my job and what I have been doing for years. I have looked at the video numerous times, even with fellow workmates and an expert in accident investigations and prosecutions. The Aussie guy would not be charged with anything the Thai rider would be charged with culpable driving. It is pointless arguing with sofa experts. Your case would be blown clear out of court and you would be made to look like a fool. Sorry but that is just the way it is.

Australian experts of course but this is Thailand and the opinion of the police and courts here would differ. I have shown this video to my Thai gf and her friends, their comment is "why didn't the farang look?". So your claims of "expertise" are irrelevant at the least.

Now I remember you are also the guy that made the comment about "decent educated professionals". I have to admit that made me laugh for a few days. You somehow think that an education makes someone a perfect member of society? Removes them off all urges to drink alcohol and the pleasures there-forth? Don't you know that medical Dr are amongst the group most likely to abuse drugs and alcohol?

I am a "decent educated professional" as are many of the people on this form. I have a degree in Applied Mathematics and work as a highly specialised IT consultant.

<snip>

I do hope I am never in an accident investigated by the likes of you where a unlicensed, probably drunk driver that doesn't follow the basic rules of the road hits into me and I am found guilty because I couldn't' read his mind and predict what he was going to do.

I was hit by a car one time when I was riding my bicycle. The driver was coming the opposite way and cut across in front of me to make a right hand turn and I hit the side of his car. He almost killed me and I couldn't stand up for 5 minutes. After which I spent 10 minutes on the side of the road about to vomit. When I reported it to the police the next day they seemed more concerned about the driver and surprised he didn't want to press charges. I wouldn't doubt you fit in nicely with this crowd. I don't' know what country you are from but I have zero respect for the police in australia. Anytime I have had to deal with them I may as well have been talking to a deaf buffalo. The only time I have had to deal with the police in Thailand, when a minivan of students reversed into my rental car, they were more than helpful and called the car rental company for me to report the accident.

Anyway, I have two australia friends who are barristers, they don't specialise in car incidents, but let me get their opinion. I have serious doubts of your qualifications and think more likely you are just a couch argumentative.

Edited December 2, 2012 by angiud
Going too much hard on the deceased girl

[chooka]

For those that speak thai

[notime]

It's good to see that Thai media has taken this sad story on board. This may help to bring about "some" justice and maybe to change things on Samui a little.

From what I see on the video I can tell that the total fault for the accident in on the Thai driver from behind. I have been driving motorbike on Samui for the last 7 years and I have Thai motorbike and car driving licenses. It is true that the laws, especially for motor bikes are different here. It is even more true that the traffic culture is different. But, I cannot see anything that the Aussie driver did as different to what the local people do here all the time. Most of them don't have motor bike licenses, most don't wear helmets, most don't know or understand the traffic rules, they use indicators as an option. But one rule that everybody knows, call it "law of the jungle" is to be careful and not drive into other vehicles in front of you. The Thai driver was not only clearly speeding, as the speed limit is 40km in Samui but drove into the motor bike in front of him so, by local Thai standards is at 100 % fault.

Knowing Samui police I totally understand what happened to the Aussie later. The police here like almost everybody else is deeply prejudiced against foreigners and will always believe a Thai. Thai driver most likely told them that the foreigner "suddenly cut in front of him" and caused the accident. This would be enough for the police to squarely put the guild onto the foreign driver. They believe that of course local drivers know better and foreigners know nothing. This would also be easier for them to believe so as it presented an opportunity to extort some money that they need.

The basic pay for a government employee is about 5,000 THB (US$ 170) per month. There is absolutely no way one can survive on that, especially on Samui that is one of the more expensive places in Thailand. Hence all the government employees are "helping themselves" as they can. This is a totally corrupt island. Police officers are known to actually "buy" their positions that come at certain, fixed price tags. The higher the position the bigger the price as greater chances of getting kick-backs. But, of course, "the gentlemen" relived from his police duties would claim no wrong-doings and no corruption. As a result he will only be send to a different police station. As bizarre as this may sound the police in Samui don't even pick up the phone when someone rings. They refuse to make reports. To have them act on anything one must pay them. They are know to go around in plain cloth and actually perpetuate crimes. I've seen them in action supporting out of jail thugs on the extortion mission. I've witnessed them protecting and facilitating "jet-ski scams" and "motor bike scams". I've hear about them even killing people. This is a totally different culture and society that Westerners are more or less familiar with and with what they expect from government institutions. This is an island not only infested with but actually run by corrupt mafia, as a criminal organisation.

The reason why there is no or little news reporting on Samui is that everybody knows about it and is afraid. So, the only thing that can be reported is about how wonderful the local government is by modernising a road or helping some poor people with a free meal. No investigative journalism, no news of abandoned projects, illegal construction, big bribes, people hurt or even murdered. Nobody wants to risk his livelihood by reporting "things like that" and it perfectly fits with the Thai logic of "see no evil, speak no evil". But it is quite all right to "do evil". I believe that some help can only come from elsewhere in Thailand, say Bangkok, where there are some people at the level of sophistication enabling them to understand that corruption is not the most effective way of distributing country's wealth and making economic and social progress. I hope this tragic story will be another step in making some people understand what is going on here.

Edited December 2, 2012 by notime

[chooka]

The Thai Police investigation into Nicole’s fatal accident has been reopened following the airing of “Tragedy in Thailand” on A Current Affair on 27 November.

The Nicole Fitzsimons Foundation would like to take this opportunity to restate its mission of raising travel safety awareness.

Although the family feels the initial investigation into the accident was inadequate and unjust it is important to note we do not see this as a reflection on Thai people or the Thai culture generally.

Whilst we are pleased with these new developments and would like to see justice served for Nicole, we are not letting our hopes get too high just yet and thank everyone for their support at this time.

http://nicolefitzsimons.com/news/thai-police-investigation-reopened

[chooka]

As this is a major thai story and international story, I am curious why this isn't in the Thai news forum for all to see instead in a local news area where only a handful would be privy to.

[John 1]

As this is a major thai story and international story, I am curious why this isn't in the Thai news forum for all to see instead in a local news area where only a handful would be privy to.

It's only another motorbike accident not very interesting just look to Bali and see how many Australian's die there in bike accident's. What justice do they expect a Thai might have made a mistake and run into them for me it's 50 50 blame. On any day just drive from Chaweng to Lamai and observe the way the tourist ride like they have a death wish.

[Rooo]

As this is a major thai story and international story, I am curious why this isn't in the Thai news forum for all to see instead in a local news area where only a handful would be privy to.

It was in the Thai news section with a redirect to this forum.

[Rooo]

As this is a major thai story and international story, I am curious why this isn't in the Thai news forum for all to see instead in a local news area where only a handful would be privy to.

It was in the Thai news section with a redirect to this forum.

Post # 18

[Tropicalevo]

As this is a major thai story and international story, I am curious why this isn't in the Thai news forum for all to see instead in a local news area where only a handful would be privy to.

It's only another motorbike accident not very interesting just look to Bali and see how many Australian's die there in bike accident's. What justice do they expect a Thai might have made a mistake and run into them for me it's 50 50 blame. On any day just drive from Chaweng to Lamai and observe the way the tourist ride like they have a death wish.

Sorry Chooka, and not wishing to be insensitive, but John is correct. A death by motorbike accident is not news in Thailand. Sadly - it happens all of the time. It is not a major news item.

Likewise, motorbike accidents involving tourists in tourist destinations is not news. Again, sadly, it happens every day.

Thailand is a dangerous place to ride a motorcycle. This is more so in the tourist areas. Holidaymakers straight off a plane and onto a motorbike. The roads are covered in sand and grit (or flooded) , and not many riders in Thailand have passed a test to drive a motorbike. It looks easy and fun. It's not.

[mancub]

As this is a major thai story and international story, I am curious why this isn't in the Thai news forum for all to see instead in a local news area where only a handful would be privy to.

It's only another motorbike accident not very interesting just look to Bali and see how many Australian's die there in bike accident's. What justice do they expect a Thai might have made a mistake and run into them for me it's 50 50 blame. On any day just drive from Chaweng to Lamai and observe the way the tourist ride like they have a death wish.

Sorry Chooka, and not wishing to be insensitive, but John is correct. A death by motorbike accident is not news in Thailand. Sadly - it happens all of the time. It is not a major news item.

Likewise, motorbike accidents involving tourists in tourist destinations is not news. Again, sadly, it happens every day.

Thailand is a dangerous place to ride a motorcycle. This is more so in the tourist areas. Holidaymakers straight off a plane and onto a motorbike. The roads are covered in sand and grit (or flooded) , and not many riders in Thailand have passed a test to drive a motorbike. It looks easy and fun. It's not.

All of what you say is true, but the story here is as much about the alleged corrupt handling of the incident by the authorities as the tragic accident itself .

[oldsailor35]

Once again, when will these idiot tourists learn to use helmets. I live here and would not dream of going on my motorbike without a helmet. Driving my car from Maenam to Macro today i saw no less than 11 young tourists on motorbikes without helmets, in fact two of them were racing and overtook me, one on each side and then swung in front of me causing me to brake quickly. These kids think that they are on toys and then when something goes wrong due to their bad driving as with this nasty accident, they try to blame everybody else.

[oldsailor35]

Interesting, wearing a helmet would have stopped the other bike hitting tham at a reported 50 mph. At that speed, a helmet or not make no difference.

You do not know that for sure.

I never said that wearing a helmet would have stopped the bike from hitting them. Stop trying to score cheap points. The poor girl died from head injuries &lt;deleted&gt;.

Not wearing a helmet definitely did not save the unfortunate girl. We will never know if a helmet would have made a difference. It could not have made things worse, but it may have made things better.

I was not trying to score points, but i do tend to be fed up with the must wear a helmet brigade. Yes its the law, i can't argue that. But if saving lives here was important, there are many things which would be better. I i totally disagree with wearing a helet in case some idiot may crash into me! Where is the logic in that!

Yes mate ! a lot of people get fed up with the LAW ! but laws are made for a reason and this reason in particular might just be to protect idiots that think that they have rubber heads, although with some people, i can believe that ! And the reason you have to wear a helmet is because heads when smashed on concrete will usually come off 2nd best. NOT because someone might crash into you..........Duhhhhh !

Edited December 3, 2012 by oldsailor35