Air Pollution - Smoke, Smog, Dust 2012-2013 Chiang Mai

[Mapguy]

Late in the past burning season, Tywais started a thread very similar to this thread, but I have modified his title slightly to help people further.

Why now? There is one fire now large enough to be spotted by the NASA FIRMS satellites. For the information of newcomers, it is not unusual to see burning start in December. Given the current government's new policy of subsidies for rice production, it will be interesting to see what might happen.

Rice straw is being burnt now. One large fire's latitude and longitude are noted below. There will be more fires. Lots more.

18.934 98.956

If you are new to all this, or haven't really done any research before, you will find a lot of information (as well as opinion and frustration) on this thread: <<Smoke, Smog, Dust 2012 Chiang Mai >> . Sometimes there are even suggestions about what you can do as an individual. There are several previous threads, some of which also contain additional solid sources of information ( as well as opinion and argument). Just search likely words or terms within this TV local forum, and you will pick up most of it. You will have to winnow the wheat from the chafe yourself; or should I say rice from the straw!

So, let the conversation continue !! Perhaps more ways can be thought of to help do something to solve this problem than just complain about it!

Edited December 6, 2012 by Mapguy

[MESmith]

Burning in full swing out in the rice fields around our place. Always starts around now.

[MESmith]

Mapguy, nothing will happen. They, the Thai people don't care, not concerned. I've driven behind school buses, actually pickup trucks with a cover / cage on the back, belching black smoke out the exhaust pipe. If you've ever ridden in the back of a sangteaw you'll know that the smoke will be sucked into the back of the truck. These kids will breathe this sh1t every school day. Nothing will change. The country is f#$%ed. Nothing we can do, except don't come here or clear out, if that's an option

[Tywais]

Late in the past burning season,

I don't consider February late when I started it, it was actually unseasonably early - I Posted 2012-02-16 23:11:30

But you sure got a head start on it though.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I'm flying out Feb 15, its a guess when it gets bad but that is my guess and come back in June or something.

I think it would be mostly okay after about April 1.... Lots of variations.

if someone could accurately forecast the bad air periods in CM. I would pay for that.

[Tywais]

May as well put up the running satellite fire map then. This updates automatically every 8 hours on the screen here. Last February's topic with links to various sites and topics.

[naboo]

Save the moaning for February, please! The cold season hasn't yet begun, although there was a nice cool breeze an hour or so ago.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yup.. they are confusing a regional pollution & climate problem with their neighbor burning some leavesm or his field: Local temporary issue vs regional issue across 3-4 countries.

Yesterdays PM-10 figure..... : 24.1 ; could see Doi Inthanon from downtown.

Anyway, can't hurt to have the topic ready for when we do hit February/March. I too plan to take a holiday in March, it's a sh*t month.

Edited December 6, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[daoyai]

I see it as a reminder to enjoy the present conditions..... this too shall pass and all that.

[SoloFlyer]

What happened to that campaign group? Shouldn't they and others concerned but starting to ramp up the no-burning campaign before it actually starts, if it hasn't already?

[Mapguy]

For the record, the first satellite-identified blaze award for the season goes to a rice farmer just east of San Pong and NE of Mae Rim.

PDF FIrst Fire.pdf

Edited December 7, 2012 by Mapguy

[MESmith]

Yup.. they are confusing a regional pollution & climate problem with their neighbor burning some leavesm or his field: Local temporary issue vs regional issue across 3-4 countries.

Yesterdays PM-10 figure..... : 24.1 ; could see Doi Inthanon from downtown.

Anyway, can't hurt to have the topic ready for when we do hit February/March. I too plan to take a holiday in March, it's a sh*t month.

No confusion, whatsoever. The topic title refers to air pollution, not just smog. Yes, the skies are clear at the moment, but pollution, whether from burning, vehicle exhausts, or dust is a problem locally, once the rains finish. I'm not talking about the smog, which will come later. Yesterday, late afternoon, I made a rare trip into town, up on the 9th floor. Terrific view of the distant hills. However, in the middle distance you could see the smoke from burning in residential areas just south of the city, near the river. It wasn't going anywhere - no wind. Just hanging around the local area. This happens most days. AQI readings at a measuring station don't mean much to people getting smoked.

[Briggsy]

They have put up some new posters with a picture of a child and some kind of slogan saying, "Daddy, please don't burn off the rice stubble for the sake of my health," or something like that. I drove past it somewhere in Chiang Mai province.

[Thailand]

They have put up some new posters with a picture of a child and some kind of slogan saying, "Daddy, please don't burn off the rice stubble for the sake of my health," or something like that. I drove past it somewhere in Chiang Mai province.

Combine it with this one for zero effect!

[Mapguy]

They have put up some new posters with a picture of a child and some kind of slogan saying, "Daddy, please don't burn off the rice stubble for the sake of my health," or something like that. I drove past it somewhere in Chiang Mai province.

Combine it with this one for zero effect!

I agree. No politician is ever going to miss a chance to get his or her face on a billboard! However, public education --- positive encouragement for change --- is needed. Negative publicity also can help over time. Last season, there was some really good TV coverage of egregious burning being done on the Central Plains. The schools are important. Getting the children on board is one contribution to change that has helped in many countries in the past. All in all, there are limits to what can be done, but pounding away at the message does apparently help.

Enforcement of existing regulations is another route. Start arresting people and taking them to court. There are some interesting systemic problems with enforcement. One, for example, is the limitation of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment which has no enforcement authority. Last year, a poster (Ricky Ward, the "Tree Guy") reported that in the parks only a few and certain officers had authority to fight fires.

My favorite enforcement story comes from the (cough! gag!) 2006-2007 season when the Burmese general in charge on the border with Mae Hon Song Province was down at the southern end of his region. He wanted to go north but was told flying was impossible due to the burning, so he drove north arresting more than 200 farmers en route!

The economic impact of change on farmers makes a difference. There is the added cost of turning the land. Now, with the subsidies for rice farmers brought in by the current government stimulating more planting, one wonders what the result on the ground (and in the air) will be. People are even getting caught smuggling in rice from neighboring countries !!

This is not totally a Thai problem. This is a multinational SE Asian regional problem (primarily because of similar rice-based rural economies in Laos and Myanmar), but to blame neighboring countries is rather pointless, especially when so much can be done in Thailand, and certainly in the four NW provinces which are so obviously guilty as well as sorely affected. Otherwise, multinational regional discussions are going on.

So, what to do? On a personal level with neighbors, confrontation can be difficult (and not necessarily successful), but local encouragement and comment can be helpful over time. More generally, make noise: report fires. GPS is super popular and readily available. Most if not all mobile phones geotag photos. Take a photo, turn it in. Pass a fire on the road? Report its location to authorities. SPAM the guv! Just keep making noise.

Other ideas, anyone? Before we get to the bad days ahead?

PS. Buy filter paper for your air conditioners now! That filtering won't protect you from the really insidious particulate matter, but the house will be cleaner! Lots of hints about protecting yourself with air cleaners and various masks on last season's thread:

Edited December 7, 2012 by Mapguy

[SoloFlyer]

^ send these geotagged pics to where?

[KRS1]

Mapguy, nothing will happen. They, the Thai people don't care, not concerned. I've driven behind school buses, actually pickup trucks with a cover / cage on the back, belching black smoke out the exhaust pipe. If you've ever ridden in the back of a sangteaw you'll know that the smoke will be sucked into the back of the truck. These kids will breathe this sh1t every school day. Nothing will change. The country is f#$%ed. Nothing we can do, except don't come here or clear out, if that's an option

in Houston every other person is a redneck driving a pickup belching out smoke.

God i need to get out of TX.

[Mapguy]

^ send these geotagged pics to where?

Good question. Here's one place to start: http://www.pcd.go.th/Info_serv/Hotline/default.cfm

More to come.

[hellodolly]

They have put up some new posters with a picture of a child and some kind of slogan saying, "Daddy, please don't burn off the rice stubble for the sake of my health," or something like that. I drove past it somewhere in Chiang Mai province.

Combine it with this one for zero effect!

I don't think posters in Chiiang Mai are going to do any thing. Perhaps if they were put up in the rice farmers front yard.

I was under the impresion that the Government was going out and showing farmers a better way to handle the waste. Composition piles and other methods. A few years ago there was an article in a reliable paper (well as reliable as a paper can be) obviousley not the nation. It showed that the small rice faarmer could make more money by using buffalo's instead of machinery. They had set up a school to teach the farmers. It was a ten day course and it took three days to train the buffalo.

[Thailand]

They have put up some new posters with a picture of a child and some kind of slogan saying, "Daddy, please don't burn off the rice stubble for the sake of my health," or something like that. I drove past it somewhere in Chiang Mai province.

Combine it with this one for zero effect!

I don't think posters in Chiiang Mai are going to do any thing. Perhaps if they were put up in the rice farmers front yard.

I was under the impresion that the Government was going out and showing farmers a better way to handle the waste. Composition piles and other methods. A few years ago there was an article in a reliable paper (well as reliable as a paper can be) obviousley not the nation. It showed that the small rice faarmer could make more money by using buffalo's instead of machinery. They had set up a school to teach the farmers. It was a ten day course and it took three days to train the buffalo.

Taken earlier this year.This poster,and others nearby, was in the middle of the rice farmers front yard at a crossroads between the 108 and x country to the 11.

On the opposite corner of the crossroads there was a fire burning!

[Thailand]

^ send these geotagged pics to where?

Good question. Here's one place to start: http://www.pcd.go.th...ine/default.cfm

More to come.

A good start I suppose but would you as a foreigner want to add all your details on a complaint form aimed at Thai's, I know I wouldn't.

I doubt even the Thais themselves would.

We could post photos with times and dates locations on a separate thread perhaps? A certain amount of anonymity.

[Baloo22]

Just rode the bus yesterday from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai. Spotted several fires that looked like the farmer was simply burning off the rice stubble/residue.

Question for those that know more about rice farming here; Why don't they just plow the crop residue back into the soil? I'm not a farmer but I always understood that when you plow the crop residue back into the soil it improves the soil. Is it the cost or effort of plowing again?

[Briggsy]

Just rode the bus yesterday from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai. Spotted several fires that looked like the farmer was simply burning off the rice stubble/residue.

Question for those that know more about rice farming here; Why don't they just plow the crop residue back into the soil? I'm not a farmer but I always understood that when you plow the crop residue back into the soil it improves the soil. Is it the cost or effort of plowing again?

It is cost. Ploughing costs money either by contracting the job out to somebody else or using your own equipment will incur a fuel cost. Just leaving it means a bigger job when the field is to be resown.

[trainman34014]

All around the Hang Dong area they started burning the stubble as soon as they had cut the rice a week or so ago. Most of the smoke is moving toward the mountains and away from the villages and this morning on my bike ride I observed 8 paddy's burning. They do what their families have been doing for hundreds of years before them and no Politician on billboards will convince them to do otherwise. I pass the Yingluck poster every day in one village and right next door there is a family that burns their rubbish in the garden every evening, the smoke billowing all over Yinglucks poster !

[Thailand]

All around the Hang Dong area they started burning the stubble as soon as they had cut the rice a week or so ago. Most of the smoke is moving toward the mountains and away from the villages and this morning on my bike ride I observed 8 paddy's burning. They do what their families have been doing for hundreds of years before them and no Politician on billboards will convince them to do otherwise. I pass the Yingluck poster every day in one village and right next door there is a family that burns their rubbish in the garden every evening, the smoke billowing all over Yinglucks poster !

I think I mentioned this before but I lived in another country that had exactly the same problem.It was stopped almost overnight by levying substantial fines on the landowners not the farmers leasing the land.

It is unlikely to work here though as the majority of those that would have to pass such a ruling are the landowners themselves.

[SamSipEt]

Anyway, can't hurt to have the topic ready for when we do hit February/March. I too plan to take a holiday in March, it's a sh*t month.

Me too - leave for while and come back after the rains have started and they have washed a lot of the pollution out of the air.

[Mapguy]

Leaving Chiang Mai, if you can, during the worst of the burning season --- normally mid-February - mid-April --- is certainly rational. That requires being financially able to do so. Some who do have the money still have children in school, jobs they can not leave, and so on. For the poor, they are basically trapped. Those significant downers aside, it is very hard to predict when the worst of it will occur. The season indicated above is a fairly useful estimate. Sometimes, the heavy impact is toward the beginning; sometimes it is toward the end. Accordingly, it is hard to plan exiting North and Central Thailand.

The Chiang Mai valley is basically a bowl surrounded by mountains in which pollution can be trapped by atmospheric conditions of various kinds. it is also a great source of locally-generated pollution. Toward the end of last season's annual discussion of this geomorphic problem, there was some speculation as to how much PM<10 pollution actually is able to enter this bowl from surrounding regions. Mae Hong Song, Chiang Rai and Phayao provinces (in Thailand), Burma and Laos get most of the rap. Very little burning occurs in China. The cold season monsoon winds are basically from the north, if somewhat variable. We need a meteorologist and an expert on the disbursal of PM<10, particularly PM<2.5. The two big questions, perhaps, are how high does it fly and how far does it travel before it settles. Knowing the answers, of course, doesn't solve the problem, but Thailand might focus more on solving its own problem rather than just blaming its neighbors. What's the old saw of environmental action? "Think globally and act locally."

For those new to this problem --- the particulate matter pollution problem, differences in PM<10 and PM<2.5, and so on, there are places (Many suggested in last year's thread) where you can study up. Basically, PM<2.5 is the really nasty stuff. It is not widely measured or reported in Thailand (or in a lot of other places). The scientific conclusion seems to be that is comprises 40 - 60% of PM<10. It is the stuff that is small enough to get into the blood stream. A lot of research is being done now on the effects of short and long-term exposure, and at what levels. Lots of information out there. Take a look.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Mapguy

[Baloo22]

Just rode the bus yesterday from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai. Spotted several fires that looked like the farmer was simply burning off the rice stubble/residue.

Question for those that know more about rice farming here; Why don't they just plow the crop residue back into the soil? I'm not a farmer but I always understood that when you plow the crop residue back into the soil it improves the soil. Is it the cost or effort of plowing again?

It is cost. Ploughing costs money either by contracting the job out to somebody else or using your own equipment will incur a fuel cost. Just leaving it means a bigger job when the field is to be resown.

Thanks, Briggsy!

[MESmith]

Just rode the bus yesterday from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai. Spotted several fires that looked like the farmer was simply burning off the rice stubble/residue.

Question for those that know more about rice farming here; Why don't they just plow the crop residue back into the soil? I'm not a farmer but I always understood that when you plow the crop residue back into the soil it improves the soil. Is it the cost or effort of plowing again?

It is cost. Ploughing costs money either by contracting the job out to somebody else or using your own equipment will incur a fuel cost. Just leaving it means a bigger job when the field is to be resown.

Thanks, Briggsy!

They plough with the same tractor whether they burn or not. I doubt it makes the slightest difference. There are a few balers around, baling the straw for cattle, but most farmers just burn.

[MilesCh]

Two years ago I drove CM to Mae Hong Son in March and everywhere in the mountains fires were burning close to the road. Is this done by the governments to keep wildfires from occurring along the roads? Or is it simply property owners burning the brush to prevent their land from burning? And it's obvious that this smoke blows down to CM, just as it does blow down from Burma.

Edited December 9, 2012 by MilesCh