Briggsy Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Just rode the bus yesterday from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai. Spotted several fires that looked like the farmer was simply burning off the rice stubble/residue. Question for those that know more about rice farming here; Why don't they just plow the crop residue back into the soil? I'm not a farmer but I always understood that when you plow the crop residue back into the soil it improves the soil. Is it the cost or effort of plowing again? It is cost. Ploughing costs money either by contracting the job out to somebody else or using your own equipment will incur a fuel cost. Just leaving it means a bigger job when the field is to be resown. Thanks, Briggsy! I have to admit I cheated. Information was courtesy of my girlfriend who knows a lot more about rice farming than I ever will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman77 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I plan to make a journey to pai! How was the situation of the smoke this year in march and now? Does the smog come also to the hill tribe village on a higher sea level ? Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I plan to make a journey to pai! How was the situation of the smoke this year in march and now? Does the smog come also to the hill tribe village on a higher sea level ? Pai is worse than Chiang Mai. (The further you get towards the North / Burma, the worse it gets). Right now it's brilliant weather, but in March it's potentially very nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESmith Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I plan to make a journey to pai! How was the situation of the smoke this year in march and now? Does the smog come also to the hill tribe village on a higher sea level ? Pai is worse than Chiang Mai. (The further you get towards the North / Burma, the worse it gets). Right now it's brilliant weather, but in March it's potentially very nasty. The Pai area is very beautiful when green. ie during the rains & just after, like now. By March it'll be dry & brown And probably very smokey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Shouldn't we separate the burning that represents people trying to stay warm from the rest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESmith Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Shouldn't we separate the burning that represents people trying to stay warm from the rest? They should be supplied with electric blankets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman77 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Very bad.. The rose of the north will be destroyed sadly.. What I miss in this topic is the situation in Burma! Maybe the people have no other chance like to burn there rice fields, that new one growth Or some people make the fire like in pelaponese Greece year ago! How big was the cloud last year, is it true it spread over 500 km? Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I don't know what is happening but I stepped out on my balcony and hit by an acrid thick cloud of smoke. Eyes burning and just for the brief time outside my clothes and the room smell badly now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 'Tis the season to be...smoky! Fa-la-la-la-la la-la-la la! And you thought you had to wait until February! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 'Tis the season to be...smoky! Fa-la-la-la-la la-la-la la! And you thought you had to wait until February! Appears to be very localized and bad luck with a breeze as 15 minutes later it is ok again. It was seriously bad at that time though that my wife went through and shut all the doors and windows and complaining you can't even breath outdoors. My eyes are still suffering and the bedroom still smells. February is the more global issue rather than this brief localized burn. Don't know where it came from but my wife thinks field clearing not far from our previous house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapout Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 They have started burning the rice stubble fields and any overgrown lots that are deemed burnable (this does not seem to take in dry or potential complete burn) so vast smoke cloud is the result. Guess last years burning ban is forgotten, not extended, ignored, or for the other fellow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman77 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 When i Talk , With the locals about this problem , many told me, for us it is normal only tourists are so sensitive! But I still don't understand why 5 or 7 years before smoke was not same problem now! Sadly I have many friends in Chiang Mai , but this year nearly 2 month in the city was enough! Now I stay in the north east far away from the cloud.. Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 You might ask why burning is not done in Issan. By the way, someone asked if there weren't some guidance on the benefits of plowing under straw (or collecting it). There is on the PCD web site. Not certain how many farmers might peruse that web site. Nor do people clearing forest land to crop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Burning and smoke/air pollution in CM. Thanks for the heads up, I would never have guessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Just came along the back road from the 121 towards Ban Tawai passing Koolpunt 9 golf and every field had been burnt or was burning! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khwaibah Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 You might ask why burning is not done in Issan. By the way, someone asked if there weren't some guidance on the benefits of plowing under straw (or collecting it). There is on the PCD web site. Not certain how many farmers might peruse that web site. Nor do people clearing forest land to crop it. Burning is done in Issan.. Just not as much. As I speak I can look out and see a few fires.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limegreenpatato Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 If they really want to stop this,,,which im guessing they dont. If your caught with fires on your land, your land now belongs to the government and you get kicked off or massive fines and sending people to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapout Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 The rice farmer is burning, yes, but this has been one of the self inflicted wounds, of incompentent politicians, decisions/meddeling. The farmer use to use the straw from rice crop to mulch the garlic crop which was planted as a winter cash crop. Virtually all the straw was used from a rice rai to a rai of garlic. There was/is a small market for staw as filler for livestock, bedding, etc so there was little unused/needed straw. In the mid 2000's China started shipping garlic and other farm produce to Thailand at a cheaper price than the Thai farmer could produce it, farm production changed and the smoke/pollution problems have multiplied. along with other man made decisions which have produced further problems. Add the millions of vehicles put on the Thai roads during the same time frame (with little thought to pollution production/reduction) and we reap what we sow. We have all probably experienced the pointing finger of blame in Thailand. With much of the rest of the world working to reduce/modify pollution from various sources, while making their methods available to the world, why would we expect the class act people running this country to learn from others mistakes nor listen to well meaning advice, when they can divert attention with that artthoritive fickle finger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmuc Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks, slapout. Good post. - In our province(Phrae) many of the farmers use the straw to cover the new planted water melons. If I may cite you: 'The farmer use to use the straw from rice crop to mulch the garlic crop which was planted as a winter cash crop...' Fires near and far, have a look at Fire Mapper. - But it really seems to be a question of money as Briggsy's girlfriend says(# 31). Additionally there might be some laziness too. MESmith said in # 29: 'There are a few balers around, baling the straw for cattle, but most farmers just burn.' Absolutely right, would solve many problems. So who might advise/help them to do the right thing? I don't know. Burning season 2012, if I remember correctly, indeed brought a lot of smoke from Myanmar and Laos. I don't think it's only the Thai farmers who act like 'always'. Especially west of the Thai-Myanmar border there is slash and burn, an ongoing and strengthening process. If there would be any political will to stop the burning in Thailand, Myanmar or wherever on this earth, it would be very easy to localize the burnings(e.g. 18.9, 98.9). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 By the way, the fires in that vicinity (See 18.9 98.9) have continued for some time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldeBellPedr Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 We drove up from Chiang Mai this morning and are now in Mae Sai. In lots of locations on the way up, particularly around Wieng Papao, the air quality was as bad as it gets in March and its not yet January even! There were several huge fires and any number of small ones. The authorities simply don't care. The only ones who could be instructed to do anything about the burning are the police and they are not going to bother poor farmers who can't pay substantial fines. Madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck2 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) 'Tis the season to be...smoky! Fa-la-la-la-la la-la-la la! And you thought you had to wait until February! Appears to be very localized and bad luck with a breeze as 15 minutes later it is ok again. It was seriously bad at that time though that my wife went through and shut all the doors and windows and complaining you can't even breath outdoors. My eyes are still suffering and the bedroom still smells. February is the more global issue rather than this brief localized burn. Don't know where it came from but my wife thinks field clearing not far from our previous house. It's hard to find the reason for this smoke, only by your photo. The duration of the smoke may be a hint for chemicals or plastic. I don't know if you ever smelled the plastic smoke. Here in the mountainous area of the Mae Hong Son Province the people light a fire to dispel the mozzies at daytime or have it in exchange for a heater, as the temperature is only about 10 - 15° by midnight until morning. But I guess the latter will not apply for CM. In our area the strow burning did not yet start at all. It is still to wet because we have a dense fog every morning Edited December 18, 2012 by puck2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropico Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Regarding to smog, dust, and smoke........ I think nobody is very interested about the issue. Yesterday I was cycling to Doi Suthep as usual and after passing the zoo and the first temple where everybody stops to pray, I started smelling something like burned plastic or tires. It was a nasty smell that continued until the national park box after the temple. The burning was coming from a house near by the NP box but nobody seemed very concerned with it. Few seconds of inhalation made me feel sick and my eyes were burning. Beside this incident, I also noticed that every night around my home, the smell of burned plastics and charcoal have increased since a month ago and this forced me to live with closed windows. I am not sure if you noticed the beautiful sunsets very orangey color, well that's because of a thick layer of smoke, smog, and dust above the city. If you travel to Doi Suthep in the afternoon around 5 pm and you look from the viewpoint just before Doi Suthep temple you will notice a thick, grey layer. With all the burning, constructions sites and traffic a lot of pollutants are pumped into the air and it is just going to get worse very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Bob Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Just rode the bus yesterday from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai. Spotted several fires that looked like the farmer was simply burning off the rice stubble/residue. Question for those that know more about rice farming here; Why don't they just plow the crop residue back into the soil? I'm not a farmer but I always understood that when you plow the crop residue back into the soil it improves the soil. Is it the cost or effort of plowing again? It is cost. Ploughing costs money either by contracting the job out to somebody else or using your own equipment will incur a fuel cost. Just leaving it means a bigger job when the field is to be resown. Thanks, Briggsy! They plough with the same tractor whether they burn or not. I doubt it makes the slightest difference. There are a few balers around, baling the straw for cattle, but most farmers just burn. I worked in Iowa for a year and found out that they can plow corn stocks back into the soil because the corn stalks have value as a fertilizer. They couldn't do the same with wheat stalks because there was no nutritional value in them at all. In fact retilled wheat fields would yield less wheat per acre. The wheat stalks were ground and used as a filler or dilluter for expensive stock feeds like wheat mids/ground corn. Another interesting tidbit of info I gleamed during my year in hell was that most of Iowa's corn isn't for human consumption it goes to feed mills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 What would get things going would be the U.S. consulate to publish airborne particulate data and information on carcinogenic air pollution in Chiang Mai on a daily basis a la Beijing embassy style. Unfortunately Thailand is an Asian Pacific military ally of the U.S. so no chance of that. Maybe the Saudis could do it......through a front organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 They have put up some new posters with a picture of a child and some kind of slogan saying, "Daddy, please don't burn off the rice stubble for the sake of my health," or something like that. I drove past it somewhere in Chiang Mai province. Combine it with this one for zero effect! I agree. No politician is ever going to miss a chance to get his or her face on a billboard! However, public education --- positive encouragement for change --- is needed. Negative publicity also can help over time. Last season, there was some really good TV coverage of egregious burning being done on the Central Plains. The schools are important. Getting the children on board is one contribution to change that has helped in many countries in the past. All in all, there are limits to what can be done, but pounding away at the message does apparently help. Enforcement of existing regulations is another route. Start arresting people and taking them to court. There are some interesting systemic problems with enforcement. One, for example, is the limitation of the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment which has no enforcement authority. Last year, a poster (Ricky Ward, the "Tree Guy") reported that in the parks only a few and certain officers had authority to fight fires. My favorite enforcement story comes from the (cough! gag!) 2006-2007 season when the Burmese general in charge on the border with Mae Hon Song Province was down at the southern end of his region. He wanted to go north but was told flying was impossible due to the burning, so he drove north arresting more than 200 farmers en route! The economic impact of change on farmers makes a difference. There is the added cost of turning the land. Now, with the subsidies for rice farmers brought in by the current government stimulating more planting, one wonders what the result on the ground (and in the air) will be. People are even getting caught smuggling in rice from neighboring countries !! This is not totally a Thai problem. This is a multinational SE Asian regional problem (primarily because of similar rice-based rural economies in Laos and Myanmar), but to blame neighboring countries is rather pointless, especially when so much can be done in Thailand, and certainly in the four NW provinces which are so obviously guilty as well as sorely affected. Otherwise, multinational regional discussions are going on. So, what to do? On a personal level with neighbors, confrontation can be difficult (and not necessarily successful), but local encouragement and comment can be helpful over time. More generally, make noise: report fires. GPS is super popular and readily available. Most if not all mobile phones geotag photos. Take a photo, turn it in. Pass a fire on the road? Report its location to authorities. SPAM the guv! Just keep making noise. Other ideas, anyone? Before we get to the bad days ahead? PS. Buy filter paper for your air conditioners now! That filtering won't protect you from the really insidious particulate matter, but the house will be cleaner! Lots of hints about protecting yourself with air cleaners and various masks on last season's thread: http://www.thaivisa....012-chiang-mai/ I'm puzzled about this. Most houses now have split air conditioners, and no ability to draw in air from outside. In other words, they re-circulate the air already in the house. So how will this reduce the pollution problem? It would be nice to be able to filter incoming air, but I don't see how. If air con filters are available, do they reduce the efficiency? Obviously they're going to slow down the clogging up of the existing filter. It would be interesting to read peoples' comments and also the availability of the filters if they're different from the ones in the air con units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 'Tis the season to be...smoky! Fa-la-la-la-la la-la-la la! And you thought you had to wait until February! Appears to be very localized and bad luck with a breeze as 15 minutes later it is ok again. It was seriously bad at that time though that my wife went through and shut all the doors and windows and complaining you can't even breath outdoors. My eyes are still suffering and the bedroom still smells. February is the more global issue rather than this brief localized burn. Don't know where it came from but my wife thinks field clearing not far from our previous house. It's hard to find the reason for this smoke, only by your photo. The duration of the smoke may be a hint for chemicals or plastic. I don't know if you ever smelled the plastic smoke. Here in the mountainous area of the Mae Hong Son Province the people light a fire to dispel the mozzies at daytime or have it in exchange for a heater, as the temperature is only about 10 - 15° by midnight until morning. But I guess the latter will not apply for CM. In our area the strow burning did not yet start at all. It is still to wet because we have a dense fog every morning Many western countries prohibit burning in built-up areas. There are specific warnings for where rubbish is burned. 1) burning of copper-arsenate treated pine is totally banned, as it releases arsenic. 2) burning of almost all plastics releases carcinogens and other nasties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I'm puzzled about this. Most houses now have split air conditioners, and no ability to draw in air from outside. In other words, they re-circulate the air already in the house. So how will this reduce the pollution problem? It would be nice to be able to filter incoming air, but I don't see how. Because no matter how well you seal your house, the smoke/dust will still find its way in. The internal filter recirculates the internal, polluted, air and cleans it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 The som-tam lady, fount of all knowledge on things Thai, tells me that she understands one of the government's projects to enhance the tourist-experience is to burn more rubbish, and thus ensure a steady supply of photogenic red/orange sunsets during the peak tourist-season. I tried to explain, coughing as I spoke, that clean air can also be a perceived-benefit for tourists, ensuring that they thus live to return home, .and tell others what a nice place Chiang Mai is ! But she didn't hear me, and carried on poking the charcoal-BBQ, instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limegreenpatato Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 You can't even see Doi Sutep today. Usually it's not this bad until, march.....any idea why it's different this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts