CONSTITUTION REVIEW

40 senators to propose 2 charter changes

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The so-called Group of 40 Senators announced yesterday that it supported the amendment of individual articles of the existing Constitution, rather than writing an entirely new charter, to avoid exacerbating social rifts.

The group announced at a press conference that it would start by proposing amendments to Article 237 and Article 117 to do away with party dissolution as a penalty for election fraud, and to allow senators to be elected for two consecutive terms.

Joining the press conference were Paibul Nititawan, Prasarn Maruekapitak, Jetn Siratharaonon and Nirand Praditthakul, all appointed senators.

Paibul told the press conference that amending certain articles was a better solution than the passage of the charter-amendment bill, which is now pending its third reading in Parliament.

A coalition panel entrusted with studying measures to amend the charter has announced it will recommend that the government push for the third reading of the amendment bill in the next parliamentary session. The amendment bill is aimed at setting up a new Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) to write a new charter.

Paibul said his group would draft a new bill to change the two articles next week. His group would then seek 128 signatures from MPs and senators to sponsor the bill and submit it to Parliament President Somsak Kiartsuranont immediately.

Paibul said his group believed that Article 237 should be amended to abolish the party dissolution penalty in case of election fraud, but that the five-year political ban for the party leader and executives should stay.

He said Article 117, which prohibits a senator from being elected for two consecutive terms, should be amended to lift the ban.

Paibul said the two articles had caused concern among parliamentarians, so they should be improved in a spirit of brotherhood and friendship and efforts made to seek a common stand.

The proposal to amend the two articles is not motivated by a conflict of interest, but is aimed at preventing confrontations in society that may lead to violence, the senator said.

He said the charter-amendment bill, which is pending its third reading, was seen as being aimed at helping just one person.

But Noppadon Pattama, a legal adviser to Thaksin Shinawatra, yesterday denied that the proposed rewriting of the charter was aimed at helping the former prime minister.

Noppadon said the Group of 40 Senators and the Democrat Party were paranoid to believe such a thing. He said the coalition panel has not yet submitted its recommendation on whether to pass the third reading of the bill.

Noppadon said the Pheu Thai Party had promised in its election campaign that it would establish a CDA to write a more democratic charter for the benefit of the country.

So, if a new charter is written, it would be for the benefit of the entire country, not just for Thaksin, he said.

-- The Nation 2012-12-07

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

Could you be specific about which sections of the current constitution were amended by the junta and cause your vitriolic ire?

Doesn't parliament propose and senate vet the laws?

Who checks the senates proposals?

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

Could you be specific about which sections of the current constitution were amended by the junta and cause your vitriolic ire?

The answer is simple. A constitution which does not benefit the Shinawatra Clan must be flawed. Khun Noppadon already admitted that the charter rewrite is aimed at whitewashing Thaksin.

”Paibul said his group believed that Article 237 should be amended to abolish the party dissolution penalty in case of election fraud..”

And so REAL democracy returns to Thailand.

Look people. Democracy is not a religion. It is not like some venerable God that must be put above all else at any cost. In the TS case we had a clear case of rampant corruption and a parliamentary dead-lock that was resolved by a bloodless coup, and democratic power returned power to the family of the deposed PM within one year of the bloodless coup, hardly the scenario that everyone paints of a power-hungry military junta.

In a country with a better functioning legal system you may be able to wait until the courts or elections resolve such an issue that faced Thailand but why must you people insist on majority rules. More accurately what most people describe as a democracy is actually a republic. The difference between a democracy and a republic is that in the former a majority rules and can create whatever laws/consitution they wish with the power of their votes, whether purchased or not. In the latter, the rule of law prevails. A simple majority does NOT give dictatorial powers that some are trying to achieve under Thai Democracy.

In addition, it is common knowledge that PT buys votes. Not only at the grass roots level but at the pooyai level as well. If you stand for grass roots farmers rights as I do as an organic farmer, then you certainly cannot be for the PT flavor of "democracy" and populism. We are witnessing a train wreck here and the wealthy invisible hand couldn't care less if he takes down all of Thailand with his current policies.

When you throw out your blind support of the undefined god of democracy, at what point do you say that a simple majority is not enough to give one party the power to take the country down in a ball of flames? Because if you open your eyes now, you will see that is exactly what is happening.

Either TS wins by getting his $$ back and his amnesty, or Thai will be a social and financial mess.

Democracy should not have to mean throwing all common sense out the window.

Edited December 7, 201213 yr by pattayaorganic

”Paibul said his group believed that Article 237 should be amended to abolish the party dissolution penalty in case of election fraud..”

So......pattayaorganic,

So, why wouldn't one get rid of all those who benefited from election fraud. The whole party should be held accountable for something like this; I would think? I guess that's common sense talking and why would anyone here pay attention to that. Dissolving the would ensure you got rid of all the bad apples and force the party to police themselves?????? Maybe????

Let me ask a serious question to you all. The citizens of this country may not be able to do anything about this amendment (legally), but do you really think that they will be happy with knowing that the current party and all those afterward would be able to cheat AND stay in power. I have a hard time believing Thais would want their vote to count for nothing, but what do I know.

I think this amendment process will take months to finish and with all the DSI investigations going on, and the fact that the rice, computer, and wage policies have yet to do any good for the common man; PTP might loose the support they have when they ask people if it's ok to CHEAT to win the election.

Your thoughts?

This group of 40 is like turkey farmers voting for Christmas to take place once a month.

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

Could you be specific about which sections of the current constitution were amended by the junta and cause your vitriolic ire?

Someone - above - doesn't know what he's writing about. The current constitution is the only one ever voted upon by the Thai people and it was accepted. If that's not democracy then I don't know what is. It's the anti-democratic & pro-criminal amendments that PTP want to do that should be ripped up & burnt.

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

Could you be specific about which sections of the current constitution were amended by the junta and cause your vitriolic ire?

You mean the Constitution that the Military Junta had written and then stated only a Yes vote on the Referendum would lead to election? I'm with you, how could anybody possibly find fault with that?

Also would that be the 40 Senators who were appointed by the Military Junta, who are not required to be elected. All seems perfectly normal to me, mind you I do have posters of Stalin and Hitler up in my room, the left and right heels of totalitarianism, both roads lead to the same ideal of subjugation of the masses by a bureaucratic elite.

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

You can keep your odd democracy.

Personally I'm for the pure and just kind

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

Could you be specific about which sections of the current constitution were amended by the junta and cause your vitriolic ire?

Someone - above - doesn't know what he's writing about. The current constitution is the only one ever voted upon by the Thai people and it was accepted. If that's not democracy then I don't know what is. It's the anti-democratic & pro-criminal amendments that PTP want to do that should be ripped up & burnt.

Voting under duress and with an instruction from the military to vote yes ????

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

Could you be specific about which sections of the current constitution were amended by the junta and cause your vitriolic ire?

Someone - above - doesn't know what he's writing about. The current constitution is the only one ever voted upon by the Thai people and it was accepted. If that's not democracy then I don't know what is. It's the anti-democratic & pro-criminal amendments that PTP want to do that should be ripped up & burnt.

Voting under duress and with an instruction from the military to vote yes ????

Propaganda cut with bilirubin

Noppadon said the Pheu Thai Party had promised in its election campaign that it would establish a CDA to write a more democratic charter for the benefit of the country.

So, if a new charter is written, it would be for the benefit of the entire country, not just for Thaksin, he said.

Reilly says it al doesn't it.

A clever piece of rhetoric putting Thaksin in second place rather than the first place as the reason for tampering with the constitution.

Thaksin s aide has actually told the truth for once. Bet his employer doesn't even understand the truth.

Be hell to pay for Noppadon if and when Thaksin and his brown nosing acolytes ever actually cotton on to the statement.

Edited December 7, 201213 yr by siampolee

Now that thailand has been restored to Democratic governance, there is no way that a crooked constitution, written and imposed by a hi so backed coup-mongering military junta , can be allowed to remain.

What did they call it "coup law"?

It wants ripping up and burning, its an insult to anyone with an ounce od democracy in them

Could you be specific about which sections of the current constitution were amended by the junta and cause your vitriolic ire?

You mean the Constitution that the Military Junta had written and then stated only a Yes vote on the Referendum would lead to election? I'm with you, how could anybody possibly find fault with that?

Also would that be the 40 Senators who were appointed by the Military Junta, who are not required to be elected. All seems perfectly normal to me, mind you I do have posters of Stalin and Hitler up in my room, the left and right heels of totalitarianism, both roads lead to the same ideal of subjugation of the masses by a bureaucratic elite.

As for the 'faulty' 2007 constitution, it seems it not that much different from the 1997 version and even clearifies unclear parts. The amnesty for the coupmakers is a bit of a blot on it though.

http://www.thailawfo...sititution.html

BTW regarding 'would that be the 40 Senators who were appointed by the Military Junta', my answer is "not sure". The military government stepped down after the December 2007 elections, Senators have only a single six year term and now it's December 2012. It is possible, but to just assume goes a bit too far. Who will do the digging on this interesting detail ?

ADD: wiki link on Thai Senate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_of_Thailand

Edited December 7, 201213 yr by rubl

”Paibul said his group believed that Article 237 should be amended to abolish the party dissolution penalty in case of election fraud..”

So......pattayaorganic,

So, why wouldn't one get rid of all those who benefited from election fraud. The whole party should be held accountable for something like this; I would think? I guess that's common sense talking and why would anyone here pay attention to that. Dissolving the would ensure you got rid of all the bad apples and force the party to police themselves?????? Maybe????

Let me ask a serious question to you all. The citizens of this country may not be able to do anything about this amendment (legally), but do you really think that they will be happy with knowing that the current party and all those afterward would be able to cheat AND stay in power. I have a hard time believing Thais would want their vote to count for nothing, but what do I know.

I think this amendment process will take months to finish and with all the DSI investigations going on, and the fact that the rice, computer, and wage policies have yet to do any good for the common man; PTP might loose the support they have when they ask people if it's ok to CHEAT to win the election.

Your thoughts?

So you'd be quite happy for the Democrat Party to have been banned in their entireity in 2009 when Samut Prakan MP-elect Soracha Weerachart-wattana was red carded for vote buying (so tacky, distributing money attached to her name cards) - Yes?

”Paibul said his group believed that Article 237 should be amended to abolish the party dissolution penalty in case of election fraud..”

So......pattayaorganic,

So, why wouldn't one get rid of all those who benefited from election fraud. The whole party should be held accountable for something like this; I would think? I guess that's common sense talking and why would anyone here pay attention to that. Dissolving the would ensure you got rid of all the bad apples and force the party to police themselves?????? Maybe????

Let me ask a serious question to you all. The citizens of this country may not be able to do anything about this amendment (legally), but do you really think that they will be happy with knowing that the current party and all those afterward would be able to cheat AND stay in power. I have a hard time believing Thais would want their vote to count for nothing, but what do I know.

I think this amendment process will take months to finish and with all the DSI investigations going on, and the fact that the rice, computer, and wage policies have yet to do any good for the common man; PTP might loose the support they have when they ask people if it's ok to CHEAT to win the election.

Your thoughts?

So you'd be quite happy for the Democrat Party to have been banned in their entireity in 2009 when Samut Prakan MP-elect Soracha Weerachart-wattana was red carded for vote buying (so tacky, distributing money attached to her name cards) - Yes?

IF the leadership of the Democratic Party had been found to be involved in vote buying rather than an individual member, it would be legally correct to apply the relevant laws and disband the party, ban it's executives for five year. Just like when the court decided on the PPP in December, 2008

http://www.rte.ie/ne...2/thailand.html

Now this group of 40 senators wants to change the relevant article in the constitution. Unknown to me what they want to change it into. A party disbanment should be only under very clear situations, otherwise only the party members involved should be prosecuted and/or banned. IMHO.

Edited December 7, 201213 yr by rubl

Noppadon said the Pheu Thai Party had promised in its election campaign that it would establish a CDA to write a more democratic charter for the benefit of the country.

So, if a new charter is written, it would be for the benefit of the entire country, not just for Thaksin, he said.

Reilly says it al doesn't it.

A clever piece of rhetoric putting Thaksin in second place rather than the first place as the reason for tampering with the constitution.

Thaksin s aide has actually told the truth for once. Bet his employer doesn't even understand the truth.

Be hell to pay for Noppadon if and when Thaksin and his brown nosing acolytes ever actually cotton on to the statement.

I think what Noppadon actually want the people believe is that Thaksin is good for the country, hence when he can come back the country will reap the profits.

i suggest he should only be allowed to make a statement once a year...........on the 1st of April.

”Paibul said his group believed that Article 237 should be amended to abolish the party dissolution penalty in case of election fraud..”

So......pattayaorganic,

So, why wouldn't one get rid of all those who benefited from election fraud. The whole party should be held accountable for something like this; I would think? I guess that's common sense talking and why would anyone here pay attention to that. Dissolving the would ensure you got rid of all the bad apples and force the party to police themselves?????? Maybe????

Let me ask a serious question to you all. The citizens of this country may not be able to do anything about this amendment (legally), but do you really think that they will be happy with knowing that the current party and all those afterward would be able to cheat AND stay in power. I have a hard time believing Thais would want their vote to count for nothing, but what do I know.

I think this amendment process will take months to finish and with all the DSI investigations going on, and the fact that the rice, computer, and wage policies have yet to do any good for the common man; PTP might loose the support they have when they ask people if it's ok to CHEAT to win the election.

Your thoughts?

So you'd be quite happy for the Democrat Party to have been banned in their entireity in 2009 when Samut Prakan MP-elect Soracha Weerachart-wattana was red carded for vote buying (so tacky, distributing money attached to her name cards) - Yes?

IF the leadership of the Democratic Party had been found to be involved in vote buying rather than an individual member, it would be legally correct to apply the relevant laws and disband the party, ban it's executives for five year. Just like when the court decided on the PPP in December, 2008

http://www.rte.ie/ne...2/thailand.html

Now this group of 40 senators wants to change the relevant article in the constitution. Unknown to me what they want to change it into. A party disbanment should be only under very clear situations, otherwise only the party members involved should be prosecuted and/or banned. IMHO.

Its an impractical rule. This is one rule that needs cleaning up.

I think any candidate should have to submit their tax returns for the previous 3 years to be able to contest.

Edited December 7, 201213 yr by Thai at Heart

”Paibul said his group believed that Article 237 should be amended to abolish the party dissolution penalty in case of election fraud..”

So......pattayaorganic,

So, why wouldn't one get rid of all those who benefited from election fraud. The whole party should be held accountable for something like this; I would think? I guess that's common sense talking and why would anyone here pay attention to that. Dissolving the would ensure you got rid of all the bad apples and force the party to police themselves?????? Maybe????

Let me ask a serious question to you all. The citizens of this country may not be able to do anything about this amendment (legally), but do you really think that they will be happy with knowing that the current party and all those afterward would be able to cheat AND stay in power. I have a hard time believing Thais would want their vote to count for nothing, but what do I know.

I think this amendment process will take months to finish and with all the DSI investigations going on, and the fact that the rice, computer, and wage policies have yet to do any good for the common man; PTP might loose the support they have when they ask people if it's ok to CHEAT to win the election.

Your thoughts?

So you'd be quite happy for the Democrat Party to have been banned in their entireity in 2009 when Samut Prakan MP-elect Soracha Weerachart-wattana was red carded for vote buying (so tacky, distributing money attached to her name cards) - Yes?

IF the leadership of the Democratic Party had been found to be involved in vote buying rather than an individual member, it would be legally correct to apply the relevant laws and disband the party, ban it's executives for five year. Just like when the court decided on the PPP in December, 2008

http://www.rte.ie/ne...2/thailand.html

Now this group of 40 senators wants to change the relevant article in the constitution. Unknown to me what they want to change it into. A party disbanment should be only under very clear situations, otherwise only the party members involved should be prosecuted and/or banned. IMHO.

I think that if the party conspires to cheat in an election they all should pay the price. I wouldn't want to see a junior member or the leader take the fall while the group continues. I couldn't trust any of them knowing they lied and cheated their way into power.