Thai Students Poor In Math, Science.

[lujanit]

Thai youth win 2 golds at International Junior Science Olympiad

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, Dec 11 - Thai contestants won two gold, three silver and one bronze medal at the 9th International Junior Science Olympiad which ended yesterday in the Iranian capital of Tehran.

The two Thai gold medalists in the December 1-10 games are Veerapat Yosamornsunthorn and Apichartmethi Choteratanapitak both from schools in Bangkok, according to the Promotion of Academic Olympiads and Development of Science Education Foundation.

The three silver medalists are Siradanai Rimsakorn, Sirachat Charoenkasemvit from Bangkok, and Chonlanat Pheutpaiboon from a school in Hat Yai.

Thailand’s sole bronze winner is Chitipat Phetmunee also from Hat Yai School.

The Thai competitors returned to Bangkok today. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-12-11

Congratulations to these students. I really hope that they and their peers have every opportunity to pursue their chosen studies should they wish.

The problem in Thailand is certainly not the intellect of the students however the opportunity to learn. This maybe anyone of the following reasons or a combination of several. Some lazy teachers, some uneducated teachers, some incompetent teachers, crap teaching materials and/or facilities and an attitude by some parents/guardians that education is not a pre-requisite to a better standard of living.

Should I dare mention that certain political forces know that keeping the vast population uneducated and therefore poor is beneficial to their election status?

Maybe things have changed, however when I spent several months in the north-east a short time back I was amazed at the number of children not going to school. I got to know a few teachers and the dedicated ones told me that many parents considered school a waste of time when these children, particularly older ones could be helping on the farm. Such a short sighted attitude, however it is hard to blame the parents who are on a subsistence existence.

IMHO the blame lies at the feet of the politicians.

[DocN]

All this stuff has nothing, nada, zero to do with what they eat!

It is simply down to an educational system that fails its students on an everyday basis.

[Newguy70]

They are conditioned to fail in all major subjects so what does one expect. It's callled dumbing them down. The big boys now what they are doing, and they will keep doing it as long as the people allow it.

I know a lot of teachers and there are a lot of teachers here on Thai Visa and I don't think any of them, myself included ever tried to dumb a child down in Thailand or condition them to fail. I spent a lot of extra hours with the children helping them to get better grades and enjoy school. Perhaps you could give us your source of this failing practice. I know a lot of Thai educators who would also like to know.

Dear "Eyes Wide Shut"

Maybe you are at an international school where the children you have encountered are the exception. However, any g******** school that I have ever stepped into is hmmmmm. Do I really need to spell it out for you.

Source: Step into any number of non international schools and you will have your source. It's called observation. Nothings keeping you from visiting other g********* schools during the day to make this observation.

Look at the system that's in place, and how a large percentage of the sheep follow it. They are conditioned only to follow the order, their duty. Not to attempt to think outside of the box, and change it from within. It's a dig at the SyStEm as a whole, and if you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem...

Kind Regards,

Edited December 12, 2012 by Newguy70

[Thai at Heart]

In the other paper yesterday, it reported that the "new" education minister is going to change the curriculum. Again... Yawn.

I have to say, my kids are in bi-lingual Thai curriculum school, and they seem to be doing Ok, however, this is all relative of course. In terms of mathematics, they are certainly on top of the curriculum, but then again, I suppose the 5 years of extra abacus class they did helped enormously. I just can't help feeling that they don't value basic mathematics as something that is going to be worth anything in the future. But then again, there was a great article I read about them re-jugging the maths curriculm in the UK, back to something more traditional, and in it they interviewed a Singaporean mathematics teacher.

His point was, that a kid has to learn the basics by rote at the start so that they become proficient in the basics of maths, once that happens, they become confident in their work and can start to "enjoy" mathematics. This endless feeling that maths is a chore, probably comes from the fact that times tables, long division aren't drummed into them young enough, so that they aren't proficient in going ahead with more complicated stuff.

The Daily Telegraph’s interview with Professor Lianghuo Fan who has taught maths in China, Singapore and now Britain crystallised the reasons for this country’s struggle with maths.“Teachers in Britain,” he said, “are sometimes afraid of their pupils being bored by maths. Of course you have to make maths interesting, but that should come once pupils feel comfortable with the subject, once they have developed the fundamental skills.”

Or as the former High Master of St Paul’s School said: “The way they teach mathematics in Singapore is brilliant ... but when you examine how they do it, it is nothing new, nothing we didn’t use to do until the Sixties. Out there I saw good teachers using traditional methods that include rote learning – not a phrase you even hear in British classrooms today.”

So back to basics seems, probably the way forward.

[Skywalker69]

Instead of spending lots of money on "toy-pads" the should have educated the tachers instead.

[noob7]

Thai Students Poor In Math, Science.

How can that be? I'm not convinced!

In every mobile is a calculator, every smartphone has google.

Next thing, they telling us, there are bad English skills to expect.

[JetsetBkk]

On the bright side, a Thai couple I know have a brilliant daughter. She is about 52nd in all of Thailand for her exam results (she's about 16), about 25th in southern Thailand and about 12th in all of Phuket. She is simply a good, hard working girl. In fact, her mother has to make her stop studying and take a day off to have a holiday. I have helped her with her English and when she comes across a word that she doesn't know, it is amazing how she figures out how to pronounce it and what it means.

If only more kids were like her.

[notmyself]

Now I know why they need a calculator to figure out the change for a 65 baht purchase using a 100 baht note.

Even when I ask the price of something in Thai, they still sometimes reach for the calculator and enter the amount. ??

Same at the local 'mom and pop' shop close to where I live. The daughter runs it, she would be mid 20's and judging by the pictures hung around the place has a degree in some subject. A year or so ago I went in for a couple of bits and pieces but she couldn't find the calculator so in the end asked ME how much it came to. Shocking.

[DocN]

Now I know why they need a calculator to figure out the change for a 65 baht purchase using a 100 baht note.

Even when I ask the price of something in Thai, they still sometimes reach for the calculator and enter the amount. ??

Same at the local 'mom and pop' shop close to where I live. The daughter runs it, she would be mid 20's and judging by the pictures hung around the place has a degree in some subject. A year or so ago I went in for a couple of bits and pieces but she couldn't find the calculator so in the end asked ME how much it came to. Shocking.

...just one remark in their defense: if they show you the calculator, that is (as I see it), because you might be farang and might not be able to understand numbers, bigger than "10". I think, THAT PARTICULAR PART has nothing to do with being stupid or uneducated...it is actually to help YOU understand.

On everything else, you are right, of course!

[notmyself]

Now I know why they need a calculator to figure out the change for a 65 baht purchase using a 100 baht note.

Even when I ask the price of something in Thai, they still sometimes reach for the calculator and enter the amount. ??

Same at the local 'mom and pop' shop close to where I live. The daughter runs it, she would be mid 20's and judging by the pictures hung around the place has a degree in some subject. A year or so ago I went in for a couple of bits and pieces but she couldn't find the calculator so in the end asked ME how much it came to. Shocking.

...just one remark in their defense: if they show you the calculator, that is (as I see it), because you might be farang and might not be able to understand numbers, bigger than "10". I think, THAT PARTICULAR PART has nothing to do with being stupid or uneducated...it is actually to help YOU understand.

On everything else, you are right, of course!

Fair comment. Seems like magic to her when I can add up say 10 items in my head but given she has a degree of some sort it really shouldn't.

A calculator is often used as a communication tool to good effect.

[FarangTalk]

Instead of spending lots of money on "toy-pads" the should have educated the tachers instead.

They equate being able to 'play Facebook' on a tablet equates to IT savvy and education.

[spidermike007]

Now I know why they need a calculator to figure out the change for a 65 baht purchase using a 100 baht note.

Even when I ask the price of something in Thai, they still sometimes reach for the calculator and enter the amount. ??

Great point. I spent 10 minutes explaining basic math to my girlfriend. Admittedly she is very sharp. But, in ten minutes she was converting foreign currencies into thai baht, and doing math in her head. She had never done that before. She graduated from high school and studied math for years. So, perhaps the math education she received was too rote, and not creative enough? If I could break things down for her in 10 minutes, why did she go through several grades of math, and never figure our how to use shortcuts, and decimal replacement abbreviations in her head before? How any other Thais suffer from this same problem? How much is it holding the country back? If South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Japan can all excel at math and science, why can't Thailand? It is a shame, as the country has so much potential, but it seems little in the way of creativity when it comes to education? I hope the new education minister can make a difference.

[KuhnPaen]

Pim goes to the ST room 2 times a day/ 6 days a week, and makes 2,500 baht each time. She also earns 40 baht per lady drink and she sells 10 per day/6 days per week. Her apartment costs 5,000 baht/month, and she blows 30,000 baht on random garbage she doesn't need. She also sends her mother 10,000 baht each month to pay down her gambling debt, and she gives her Thai BF 20,000 baht per month for his motorcycle payment and drinking tab. How much money will Pim's farang BF have to send via Western Union each month so Pim can quit work at the bar so she can maintain her lifestyle and save enough extra to buy a new house in Surin?

See? They are good at math.

Edited December 12, 2012 by KuhnPaen

[Cheesekraft]

more+more=more, what more is there?

[easybullet3]

Really? .... I never saw that coming.

[kevvy]

Good job they are so good at English then

this is Thailand and their language in Thai ..if they dont speak English then bad luck for us , do we all speak Thai

[bkk_mike]

If you look closer at those numbers, it seems that Primary kids in the East of Thailand do OK - but drop down after several years at school (which would suggest the schools there are an issue), but in Bangkok, the numbers actually look OK for the Secondary students.

Of course the numbers are mostly abysmal in the rest of the country, so if Thailand wants to do better in the league tables, they need to start spending money on education outside of Bangkok. (but Bangkok is where all the Education Ministry's civil servants children are, so that's not going to happen).

[theajarn]

STOP THE PRESS! How did I not realize this after eight years of teaching in a public secondary institution???

Oh wait. I thought the headline said "GOOD" not "POOR" so what's the news here? What's the matter? Everything is PERFECT as far as the government is concerned!!

And Thais KNOW they must OBEY their leaders... it's bad to question them. After all, the people DO pay taxes to them.. which means that they're that awesome (because they did a lot of good in their previous life, that's why they're awesome).

[osiboy]

Now I know why they need a calculator to figure out the change for a 65 baht purchase using a 100 baht note.

Even when I ask the price of something in Thai, they still sometimes reach for the calculator and enter the amount. ??

I've always wondered about this, as kids in Thai schools (government programs) are not allowed to use calculators (ridiculous in itself), even at grade 12 level. So if they can't do mental maths, then what did they learn at school? Do they need a pencil to do the simplest calculations?

yes

[theajarn]

They are conditioned to fail in all major subjects so what does one expect. It's callled dumbing them down. The big boys now what they are doing, and they will keep doing it as long as the people allow it.

I know a lot of teachers and there are a lot of teachers here on Thai Visa and I don't think any of them, myself included ever tried to dumb a child down in Thailand or condition them to fail. I spent a lot of extra hours with the children helping them to get better grades and enjoy school. Perhaps you could give us your source of this failing practice. I know a lot of Thai educators who would also like to know.

There's a nice book with exactly that title: "Dumbing Us Down" by John Taylor Gatto. In it he argues that compulsory education is a tool for politicians to control the minds of the population. I dunno about the US system (which the book is based) but the scenario sure fits perfectly with Thailand! It was a real eye-opener for me, and the driving force behind my decision to leave this ignorant, controlled country. I'd rather teach spoiled rotten brats in the States than clueless Thais who don't care about their own country.

All the good teachers are going. We just can't fight it, and the government obviously wants us (the good teachers) out of the country. They change the system all the time to make it hard for experienced teachers to stay. New, inexperienced teachers are fine -- the less we educate the masses, the happier the Thai Government is... because it makes it easier to control a dumb population that doesn't think for itself or care about itself.

Ask any Thai about corruption...

[chiangmaikelly]

They are conditioned to fail in all major subjects so what does one expect. It's callled dumbing them down. The big boys now what they are doing, and they will keep doing it as long as the people allow it.

I know a lot of teachers and there are a lot of teachers here on Thai Visa and I don't think any of them, myself included ever tried to dumb a child down in Thailand or condition them to fail. I spent a lot of extra hours with the children helping them to get better grades and enjoy school. Perhaps you could give us your source of this failing practice. I know a lot of Thai educators who would also like to know.

There's a nice book with exactly that title: "Dumbing Us Down" by John Taylor Gatto. In it he argues that compulsory education is a tool for politicians to control the minds of the population. I dunno about the US system (which the book is based) but the scenario sure fits perfectly with Thailand! It was a real eye-opener for me, and the driving force behind my decision to leave this ignorant, controlled country. I'd rather teach spoiled rotten brats in the States than clueless Thais who don't care about their own country.

All the good teachers are going. We just can't fight it, and the government obviously wants us (the good teachers) out of the country. They change the system all the time to make it hard for experienced teachers to stay. New, inexperienced teachers are fine -- the less we educate the masses, the happier the Thai Government is... because it makes it easier to control a dumb population that doesn't think for itself or care about itself.

Ask any Thai about corruption...

So you taught at a government school? What grade level? How many teachers are leaving?

[chooka]

Just saw on the Australian ABC News that Australian students are rating well below students of S/E Asia (International ratings) when it comes to Maths and Science. Don't worry Thailand you are getting a better education than Aussie kids. Australia is ranked 28 in educational quality on world standards, Thailand is 22.

[backtonormal]

They are conditioned to fail in all major subjects so what does one expect. It's callled dumbing them down. The big boys now what they are doing, and they will keep doing it as long as the people allow it.

I know a lot of teachers and there are a lot of teachers here on Thai Visa and I don't think any of them, myself included ever tried to dumb a child down in Thailand or condition them to fail. I spent a lot of extra hours with the children helping them to get better grades and enjoy school. Perhaps you could give us your source of this failing practice. I know a lot of Thai educators who would also like to know.

You should not need to know you are in the system. All children pass because most of the time in school is spent being indoctrinated in the culture and they have not got enough time to learn. Take the following examples. In the Uk children go to school for 190/1 days per year in Thailand its less than 160. Of the 160 how much is wasted on cultural activities. Wasted is maybe the wrong word but for sure you can take off at least another 40-50 days with 2 weeks of sport days, religous festivals, meetings etc and etc. So every year they are falling 0.5 of a year behind. Secondly in the Uk they start primary level at 4 here its six. Do the maths. So when western students are walking home with the degree paper so are the Thai students (with half the education).

Its not the fault of most western teachers its the system. Too much of childrens time is wasted on creating "thainess"

[notmyself]

You should not need to know you are in the system. All children pass because most of the time in school is spent being indoctrinated in the culture and they have not got enough time to learn. Take the following examples. In the Uk children go to school for 190/1 days per year in Thailand its less than 160. Of the 160 how much is wasted on cultural activities. Wasted is maybe the wrong word but for sure you can take off at least another 40-50 days with 2 weeks of sport days, religous festivals, meetings etc and etc. So every year they are falling 0.5 of a year behind. Secondly in the Uk they start primary level at 4 here its six. Do the maths. So when western students are walking home with the degree paper so are the Thai students (with half the education).

Its not the fault of most western teachers its the system. Too much of childrens time is wasted on creating "thainess"

Lots of truth there. Not an absolute but I'd say the average 13 yo Thai who finished free school leaves with the academic knowledge and ability of an 8-9 yo in the west. If they manage to get more schooling until say 22 then it would equate at best to a western kid just out of high school. The money spent on 'tablets for all' could and should have been better used.

[robokop]

Well when the Science Minister himself managed to convince the population (not forgetting some on TV as well!), that he could expedite the flow of water from a raging river by sticking boats in it and turning the engines on, we have the answer really! It makes the achievement by the youngsters who won the medals all the more amazing and praiseworthy.

That is almost as bad as teaching Global Warming being a Scientific Fact. A little more complicated than sticking boats in the water for flow of water control.

[chiangmaikelly]

They are conditioned to fail in all major subjects so what does one expect. It's callled dumbing them down. The big boys now what they are doing, and they will keep doing it as long as the people allow it.

I know a lot of teachers and there are a lot of teachers here on Thai Visa and I don't think any of them, myself included ever tried to dumb a child down in Thailand or condition them to fail. I spent a lot of extra hours with the children helping them to get better grades and enjoy school. Perhaps you could give us your source of this failing practice. I know a lot of Thai educators who would also like to know.

You should not need to know you are in the system. All children pass because most of the time in school is spent being indoctrinated in the culture and they have not got enough time to learn. Take the following examples. In the Uk children go to school for 190/1 days per year in Thailand its less than 160. Of the 160 how much is wasted on cultural activities. Wasted is maybe the wrong word but for sure you can take off at least another 40-50 days with 2 weeks of sport days, religous festivals, meetings etc and etc. So every year they are falling 0.5 of a year behind. Secondly in the Uk they start primary level at 4 here its six. Do the maths. So when western students are walking home with the degree paper so are the Thai students (with half the education).

Its not the fault of most western teachers its the system. Too much of childrens time is wasted on creating "thainess"

Japan 243 South Korea 220 Israel, Luxembourg 216 Netherlands, Scotland, Thailand 200 England, Hungary 192 Swaziland 191 Finland, New Zealand, Nigeria 190 France 185 Spain, Sweden, United States 180

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/year-round-school

Edited December 13, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[chiangmaikelly]

You should not need to know you are in the system. All children pass because most of the time in school is spent being indoctrinated in the culture and they have not got enough time to learn. Take the following examples. In the Uk children go to school for 190/1 days per year in Thailand its less than 160. Of the 160 how much is wasted on cultural activities. Wasted is maybe the wrong word but for sure you can take off at least another 40-50 days with 2 weeks of sport days, religous festivals, meetings etc and etc. So every year they are falling 0.5 of a year behind. Secondly in the Uk they start primary level at 4 here its six. Do the maths. So when western students are walking home with the degree paper so are the Thai students (with half the education).

Its not the fault of most western teachers its the system. Too much of childrens time is wasted on creating "thainess"

Lots of truth there. Not an absolute but I'd say the average 13 yo Thai who finished free school leaves with the academic knowledge and ability of an 8-9 yo in the west. If they manage to get more schooling until say 22 then it would equate at best to a western kid just out of high school. The money spent on 'tablets for all' could and should have been better used.

So my Cardiologist who saved my life last year has an education the same as a Western kid just out of high school. Hmmmm.

[noob7]

If you look closer at those numbers, it seems that Primary kids in the East of Thailand do OK - but drop down after several years at school (which would suggest the schools there are an issue), but in Bangkok, the numbers actually look OK for the Secondary students.

Of course the numbers are mostly abysmal in the rest of the country, so if Thailand wants to do better in the league tables, they need to start spending money on education outside of Bangkok. (but Bangkok is where all the Education Ministry's civil servants children are, so that's not going to happen).

"(which would suggest the schools there are an issue)"

In case, you mean by "the schools" all official schools, you don't have to limit it to one region, only! Or 'there' stands for Thailand!?

[Bagwan]

You should not need to know you are in the system. All children pass because most of the time in school is spent being indoctrinated in the culture and they have not got enough time to learn. Take the following examples. In the Uk children go to school for 190/1 days per year in Thailand its less than 160. Of the 160 how much is wasted on cultural activities. Wasted is maybe the wrong word but for sure you can take off at least another 40-50 days with 2 weeks of sport days, religous festivals, meetings etc and etc. So every year they are falling 0.5 of a year behind. Secondly in the Uk they start primary level at 4 here its six. Do the maths. So when western students are walking home with the degree paper so are the Thai students (with half the education).

Its not the fault of most western teachers its the system. Too much of childrens time is wasted on creating "thainess"

Lots of truth there. Not an absolute but I'd say the average 13 yo Thai who finished free school leaves with the academic knowledge and ability of an 8-9 yo in the west. If they manage to get more schooling until say 22 then it would equate at best to a western kid just out of high school. The money spent on 'tablets for all' could and should have been better used.

So my Cardiologist who saved my life last year has an education the same as a Western kid just out of high school. Hmmmm.

Are you suggesting that your cardiologist received no further education after the age of 22?

[chiangmaikelly]

You should not need to know you are in the system. All children pass because most of the time in school is spent being indoctrinated in the culture and they have not got enough time to learn. Take the following examples. In the Uk children go to school for 190/1 days per year in Thailand its less than 160. Of the 160 how much is wasted on cultural activities. Wasted is maybe the wrong word but for sure you can take off at least another 40-50 days with 2 weeks of sport days, religous festivals, meetings etc and etc. So every year they are falling 0.5 of a year behind. Secondly in the Uk they start primary level at 4 here its six. Do the maths. So when western students are walking home with the degree paper so are the Thai students (with half the education).

Its not the fault of most western teachers its the system. Too much of childrens time is wasted on creating "thainess"

Lots of truth there. Not an absolute but I'd say the average 13 yo Thai who finished free school leaves with the academic knowledge and ability of an 8-9 yo in the west. If they manage to get more schooling until say 22 then it would equate at best to a western kid just out of high school. The money spent on 'tablets for all' could and should have been better used.

So my Cardiologist who saved my life last year has an education the same as a Western kid just out of high school. Hmmmm.

Are you suggesting that your cardiologist received no further education after the age of 22?

Are you suggesting that the education a doctor in Thailand receives before the age of 22 is equivalent to a Western High School? Did you really miss my point by that much? Do you know anything about medical education in Thailand?

I mean I know you guys like to bad mouth Thailand but you are being silly.

Edited December 13, 2012 by chiangmaikelly