Should Thailand Have A Uk Welfare System?

[transam]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

1. Does that bother you ?

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

3. Have you a problem with UK natives taking care of their ''own'' ?

[AntMan1]

8 million or so arriving in 12 years is an utter joke, we haven't got the infrastructure for it or the need for them, but lefty's are intent on the destruction of England and do seem content with their work despite the fact most are against it. Yesterday you pointed out that most arent westerners in Thailand are on some form of temporary visa thus are effectively tourists, yet today you infer to these people as now being something else as theyre living in a foreign country .... make your mind up.

This is an odd mix isn't it.

Ranting about foreigners in your own country (presumably from Thailand - someone else's country).

Sorry if you can't get your head around the idea that if you are issued a Vacation Visitor Visa - you are legally on a Vacation Visit. - The clue is in what the Thai Government chose as a definition for the visa and a definition of the circumstances under which it is issued.

I am in England, Ive no problem with limited immigration clearly its vital, but 8 million people more often then not unskilled is destabilising for a society, clearly your one of the genius who think otherwise .... bet you wouldn't want to live amongst them in Bradford/Rotherham or similar places.

We being as i only go to Thailand on holiday these days then i am clearly a tourist, i was pointing out how yesterday on a thread you called such repeat visitors tourists, yet on this thread implied they are immigrants.

[AntMan1]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

I bet if you were ever to suffer a severe long term disability you will also head back to England expecting others to fund your existence, and please don't tell me private insurance will cover such costs as it won't

[AntMan1]

So you mean out of about 35 million people of working age there weren't a few Brits who could do the job and it was only foreigners who could, im thinking that you don't want to pay to train people as being the sole reason you imported foreigners. Lets be honest most jobs in the oil industry aren't difficult the money is good due to the locations/conditions one is expected to work in. But the oil industry is full of jumped up types who like to create the illusion that their job is some kind of black art that only the chosen few can do.

Most jobs in the Oil Industry are indeed pretty straight forward - But by no means all. So when someone with some of those non straightforward, highly technical skills comes along, the right experience, the right attitude it makes sense to hire them - Regardless of where they come from.

You maybe right there might be some of those 'Jumped up types' of people, you are almost certainly wrong when you say they fill the industry. And you are entirely right, there is no black art to any of the O&G business - in a varying scale depending upon which end of the business the 'Black Art' boils down to 'Professional Education/Training, Experience, Connections and a willingness to get off your @ss and do something in life.

Feel free to join us.

Im working in this industry so i can get out of it <deleted> to living in the desert or on a rig half my life! I'd agree that it isnt full of jumped up types, most are decent as youve got to get along with people you live with day in day out, but it has far more <deleted> then most industries, i put it down to often semi skilled people being putting in positions of power due to having the ability to kiss arse, and the good money they earn going to their heads making them think they're more clever then what they are! But then i am a cynic.

Edited December 13, 2012 by AntMan1

[transam]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

I bet if you were ever to suffer a severe long term disability you will also head back to England expecting others to fund your existence, and please don't tell me private insurance will cover such costs as it won't

Think he is in blighty, permanent, hence the negativity towards those who want to live and take chances for an adventure in a far of land at no cost to the UK whilst they are in that far of place.

[NeverSure]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

I bet if you were ever to suffer a severe long term disability you will also head back to England expecting others to fund your existence, and please don't tell me private insurance will cover such costs as it won't

Right now I receive Social Security and Medicare which I paid for for 50+ years (yes I started working at age 14, not counting my paper route from age 12) and I still pay $125 US per month for my Medicare Advantage. I will have no problem returning to the US to collect if needed.

As a matter of fact, in LOS I lose my Medicare and the government gets a big break from something I paid for.

I would have no problem receiving food stamps and housing assistance either after paying taxes all of those years and watching it be wasted.

I don't think I'll ever need government "assistance" beyond the SS and Medicare I paid for, but I would return to the States for a serious medical condition. I paid for it.

[GuestHouse]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

1. Does that bother you ?

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

3. Have you a problem with UK natives taking care of their ''own'' ?

Point 1.

No it does not bother me in the least Transam - The question is rhetorical, but if you need me to explain the answer to you.

You, and others, leap onto the bandwagon of ranting and raving against welfare abuse - and of course trot out the usual diatribe that foreigners only come to the UK to sponge of the hardworking native (read white Anglo Saxon) tax payer.

What you fail to pick up on is the fact that it is the anti welfare advocates who are peddling the war cry you stomp along to.

You totally miss the point that welfare is under attack, not from scroungers, but from people who make great efforts to undermine public support for welfare. It is not welfare scroungers who are under attack, nothing this government or any government has done addresses welfare fraud (beyond at a superficial level) - Welfare is, in the meantime being rolled back for everyone.

Hence my rhetorical question.

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

No it does not, because I do not believe millions of non natives are claiming benefits they never contributed towards.

Does it bother you that millions of non natives are contributing to the national coffers, contributing to the national economy and running the National Health Service for you?

Does it bother you that Britain's top 100 rich list includes almost no 'Native British' people and those 'Native British People' it does include have had their wealth passed down to them for centuries, some since the time of the Norman invasion.

Does it bother you that many of the people who actually did fight for what 'Britain has and what Britain stands for' where not Native British?

Point 3.

I have absolutely no problem with Native British taking care of their own - apart from the fact that if the non native British were removed from the UK the economy would collapse and the NHS would fold through a lack of staff, be that cleaners, nurses, technicians, doctors, surgeons.

The fact is (wake up and smell the coffee) the UK could not function without immigrants - The good old Native Brits could not take care of themselves without the huge contribution immigrants make to the nation.

Enjoy your time in Thailand, enjoy living in someone else's country - enjoy ranting about other people living in yours.

Do I need to explain "Hypocrisy" for you?

[GuestHouse]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

I bet if you were ever to suffer a severe long term disability you will also head back to England expecting others to fund your existence, and please don't tell me private insurance will cover such costs as it won't

Can I suggest you read response no. 3 in the following thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/600546-what-do-you-consider-wealthy/ and inwardly digest its meaning.

[StreetCowboy]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

I bet if you were ever to suffer a severe long term disability you will also head back to England expecting others to fund your existence, and please don't tell me private insurance will cover such costs as it won't

Right now I receive Social Security and Medicare which I paid for for 50+ years (yes I started working at age 14, not counting my paper route from age 12) and I still pay $125 US per month for my Medicare Advantage. I will have no problem returning to the US to collect if needed.

As a matter of fact, in LOS I lose my Medicare and the government gets a big break from something I paid for.

I would have no problem receiving food stamps and housing assistance either after paying taxes all of those years and watching it be wasted.

I don't think I'll ever need government "assistance" beyond the SS and Medicare I paid for, but I would return to the States for a serious medical condition. I paid for it.

It seems to me that you feel hard done by with the government that you and your peers elected. We're are lucky, in the West, that we get to choose the government that we toil under, but the quid pro quo is that we get the government that we collectively choose.

SC

[GuestHouse]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

I bet if you were ever to suffer a severe long term disability you will also head back to England expecting others to fund your existence, and please don't tell me private insurance will cover such costs as it won't

Think he is in blighty, permanent, hence the negativity towards those who want to live and take chances for an adventure in a far of land at no cost to the UK whilst they are in that far of place.

Transam, I urge you not to do that.

Stop dreaming up lives for people you don't know in order to fit the dreamed up life into your own prejudicial views. If you don't know, don't make it up, simply don't comment. You'll not look so foolish that way and a look a lot less twisted into the bargain.

Edited December 13, 2012 by GuestHouse

[transam]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

1. Does that bother you ?

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

3. Have you a problem with UK natives taking care of their ''own'' ?

Point 1.

No it does not bother me in the least Transam - The question is rhetorical, but if you need me to explain the answer to you.

You, and others, leap onto the bandwagon of ranting and raving against welfare abuse - and of course trot out the usual diatribe that foreigners only come to the UK to sponge of the hardworking native (read white Anglo Saxon) tax payer.

What you fail to pick up on is the fact that it is the anti welfare advocates who are peddling the war cry you stomp along to.

You totally miss the point that welfare is under attack, not from scroungers, but from people who make great efforts to undermine public support for welfare. It is not welfare scroungers who are under attack, nothing this government or any government has done addresses welfare fraud (beyond at a superficial level) - Welfare is, in the meantime being rolled back for everyone.

Hence my rhetorical question.

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

No it does not, because I do not believe millions of non natives are claiming benefits they never contributed towards.

Does it bother you that millions of non natives are contributing to the national coffers, contributing to the national economy and running the National Health Service for you?

Does it bother you that Britain's top 100 rich list includes almost no 'Native British' people and those 'Native British People' it does include have had their wealth passed down to them for centuries, some since the time of the Norman invasion.

Does it bother you that many of the people who actually did fight for what 'Britain has and what Britain stands for' where not Native British?

Point 3.

I have absolutely no problem with Native British taking care of their own - apart from the fact that if the non native British were removed from the UK the economy would collapse and the NHS would fold through a lack of staff, be that cleaners, nurses, technicians, doctors, surgeons.

The fact is (wake up and smell the coffee) the UK could not function without immigrants - The good old Native Brits could not take care of themselves without the huge contribution immigrants make to the nation.

Enjoy your time in Thailand, enjoy living in someone else's country - enjoy ranting about other people living in yours.

Do I need to explain "Hypocrisy" for you?

Load of tosh as usual.

Will read again tomorrow, but for now, how do the non natives become the top 100 richest ? Where has their money come from ? Why don't they make that vast amount of money in their own country ?

[transam]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

I bet if you were ever to suffer a severe long term disability you will also head back to England expecting others to fund your existence, and please don't tell me private insurance will cover such costs as it won't

Think he is in blighty, permanent, hence the negativity towards those who want to live and take chances for an adventure in a far of land at no cost to the UK whilst they are in that far of place.

Transam, I urge you not to do that.

Stop dreaming up lives for people you don't know in order to fit the dreamed up life into your own prejudicial views. If you don't know, don't make it up, simply don't comment. You'll not look so foolish that way and a look a lot less twisted into the bargain.

Are you in Thailand ?

[GuestHouse]

Will read again tomorrow, but for now, how do the non natives become the top 100 richest ? Where has their money come from ? Why don't they make that vast amount of money in their own country ?

They get to be in the top 100 richest by being richer than everyone not in the Top 100 richest (Doh!)

I've no idea where the money comes from, there's too much of it to keep track of, but I do know they have chosen to bring large wedges of it with them to the UK.

(Meanwhile Native Brit's idea of getting rich is dreaming of winning the lottery).

Most have made their money in their own country, but once you get into the billions these people are running multinational businesses - Does that make sense you you?

[GuestHouse]

Are you in Thailand ?

It's starting to dawn on you isn't it.....

[inthepink]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

1. Does that bother you ?

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

3. Have you a problem with UK natives taking care of their ''own'' ?

Why don't you bring some figures to this debate? Are you sure that immigrants in the UK as a whole receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes? If you are not sure then I can only assume you are a bigot.

[NeverSure]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

1. Does that bother you ?

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

3. Have you a problem with UK natives taking care of their ''own'' ?

Why don't you bring some figures to this debate? Are you sure that immigrants in the UK as a whole receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes? If you are not sure then I can only assume you are a bigot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2089696/Immigrants-claiming-UK-benefits-report-Stop-abuse-British-hospitality.html

I know of no Western country which isn't being raped by immigration except perhaps Canada and they are tight about immigration. Certainly the US is drowning supporting Mexican and S. American immigrants.

[StreetCowboy]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

1. Does that bother you ?

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

3. Have you a problem with UK natives taking care of their ''own'' ?

Why don't you bring some figures to this debate? Are you sure that immigrants in the UK as a whole receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes? If you are not sure then I can only assume you are a bigot.

I'd not rely on such weakly founded assumptions. And furthermore, how do his own personal shortcomings affect the debate. For all we know or care, he may also be a pederast and a presbyterian. So what? Answer his posts, rather than assassinating his character through prejudice and abuse

SC

[inthepink]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

1. Does that bother you ?

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

3. Have you a problem with UK natives taking care of their ''own'' ?

Why don't you bring some figures to this debate? Are you sure that immigrants in the UK as a whole receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes? If you are not sure then I can only assume you are a bigot.

I'd not rely on such weakly founded assumptions. And furthermore, how do his own personal shortcomings affect the debate. For all we know or care, he may also be a pederast and a presbyterian. So what? Answer his posts, rather than assassinating his character through prejudice and abuse

SC

I did answer his post - I questioned the fact that immigrants cost more than they contribute in the United Kingdom. Unless they do, it is irrelevant that some of them are claiming benefits.. He is making ridiculous generalisations about immigrants that without any hard facts amount to nothing more than bigotry. He could be all the other things that you mention but they are not relevant to this argument, whereas his possible intolerance toward immigrants most certainly is.

If you have nothing constructive to add to the argument, why are you posting anyway? I don't need advice from you on how to think or what to say.

[inthepink]

I wonder how many TV members have in truth a return home to living on welfare ahead of them?!

1. Does that bother you ?

2. Does it not bother you that millions of non natives can live off the stuff I/we fought, worked and paid for in the UK ?

3. Have you a problem with UK natives taking care of their ''own'' ?

Why don't you bring some figures to this debate? Are you sure that immigrants in the UK as a whole receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes? If you are not sure then I can only assume you are a bigot.

http://www.dailymail...ospitality.html

I know of no Western country which isn't being raped by immigration except perhaps Canada and they are tight about immigration. Certainly the US is drowning supporting Mexican and S. American immigrants.

Your link refers to the number of immigrants claiming benefits and the amount that they are claiming, but like every other article of that nature, makes no attempt to quantify the other side of the coin.

[StreetCowboy]

...

I'd not rely on such weakly founded assumptions. And furthermore, how do his own personal shortcomings affect the debate. For all we know or care, he may also be a pederast and a presbyterian. So what? Answer his posts, rather than assassinating his character through prejudice and abuse

SC

I did answer his post - I questioned the fact that immigrants cost more than they contribute in the United Kingdom. Unless they do, it is irrelevant that some of them are claiming benefits.. He is making ridiculous generalisations about immigrants that without any hard facts amount to nothing more than bigotry. He could be all the other things that you mention but they are not relevant to this argument, whereas his possible intolerance toward immigrants most certainly is.

If you have nothing constructive to add to the argument, why are you posting anyway? I don't need advice from you on how to think or what to say.

I'm just saying that to assume he is a bigot is not justified on the basis of one lapse in the statistical rigour of his arguments. Your own assumptions are your own business, but to offer an accusation of bigotry on the grounds of poor statistical analysis may convince the ignorant and easily swayed amongst us, but in fact is mere demagogary and diatribe.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you, I am merely offering constructive criticism that you may better frame your discourse

SC

[inthepink]

...

I'd not rely on such weakly founded assumptions. And furthermore, how do his own personal shortcomings affect the debate. For all we know or care, he may also be a pederast and a presbyterian. So what? Answer his posts, rather than assassinating his character through prejudice and abuse

SC

I did answer his post - I questioned the fact that immigrants cost more than they contribute in the United Kingdom. Unless they do, it is irrelevant that some of them are claiming benefits.. He is making ridiculous generalisations about immigrants that without any hard facts amount to nothing more than bigotry. He could be all the other things that you mention but they are not relevant to this argument, whereas his possible intolerance toward immigrants most certainly is.

If you have nothing constructive to add to the argument, why are you posting anyway? I don't need advice from you on how to think or what to say.

I'm just saying that to assume he is a bigot is not justified on the basis of one lapse in the statistical rigour of his arguments. Your own assumptions are your own business, but to offer an accusation of bigotry on the grounds of poor statistical analysis may convince the ignorant and easily swayed amongst us, but in fact is mere demagogary and diatribe.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you, I am merely offering constructive criticism that you may better frame your discourse

SC

It wasn't an accusation, it was, as I clearly stated, an assumption on my part. As for statistical rigour / analysis, he didn't quote any statistics that I noticed. Millions of people claiming benefits I think was what he said. According to the article that Never Sure posted a link to, the figure is around 371,000. Somebody else mentioned that 8 million immigrants have arrived in the UK over the last 12 years. You do the maths.

Thanks for your constructive criticism but it's really not necessary. However, to return the favour, may I suggest you look up the definition of demagoguery (I'm assuming that's the word you were going for). If anybody is appealing to people's prejudices to further their argument it certainly isn't me.

Edited December 13, 2012 by inthepink

[elliss]

one thing for sure,

the uk is borrowing money , to feed the work shy, and support the zeuro zone.

consequently the uk has a national debt , which WHEN the loan is recalled ,

and it will be , the social dependancy culture will abruptly end.

thailand is more self reliant than the U.K. and does not have a massive debt burden .

once upon a time , i was proud to be british .

now we are a minority group , in our own country.

Edited December 13, 2012 by elliss

[StreetCowboy]

one thing for sure,

the uk is borrowing money , to feed the work shy, and support the zeuro zone.

consequently the uk has a national debt , which WHEN the loan is recalled ,

and it will be , the social dependancy culture will abruptly end.

thailand is more self reliant than the U.K. and does not have a massive debt burden .

once upon a time , i was proud to be british .

now we are a minority group , in our own country.

I'm proud to be British as well, but that has never depended on whom I was stood amongst. To be honest, if you rely on other people for your pride in your nation, then you are on a slippery slope that perhaps only Scottish rugby fans could help you climb

SC

[Chittychangchang]

To bite or not to bite that is the question.....

The vast majority of immigrants that work in the UK work dam_n hard doing the jobs brits don't care for ie: care homes/ cleaning/ farm labouring to start.

The question of the burdining welfare state is being blown out of proportion here when you take into account the overseas aid and war on terror.

The main concern for the UK goverment and the ever growing elderly baby boomer population is the BLACK HOLE in the pensions pot.

Who else's tax's is going to support the OAP's pensions when they are living in Spain or Thailand? The hard working migrant/immigrant to the U.K.

Who else's tax's is going to support the OAP's when they return to their U.K care home to be bed bathed when they are infirm and who's goina give the bed bath?

The Thai social welfare system is family and that is the system i opt for any day!

[samran]

8 million or so arriving in 12 years is an utter joke, we haven't got the infrastructure for it or the need for them, but lefty's are intent on the destruction of England and do seem content with their work despite the fact most are against it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom

I wish you blokes would do a bit more reseach before throwing around numbers and scaring the natives. Or are you the natives who are easily scared?

8 million. Oh the sky is falling. 8 million. Oh those bloody darkies and gypos coming to take over our country. 8 million. I can't count

The UK population has grown by 3.991 million since the start of 2001.

Of that, the natural change (the difference between births and deaths) is about 1.8 million.

So basically, to reach the figure of 3.991million more people in the UK is that you'd need around 2.2m people new to the UK over the past 12 years.

So on a net net basis - that is 182,000 new arrivals to the UK every year.

Or for the more simple minds who I've lost to this point. Of those 8 million who arrived. Nearly 6million of them left.

So the came, worked, paid taxes into your system (or paid international rates of school fees), probably didn't claim a penny of benefit cause they weren't allowed to.

My wife and I were two of those 6 million who came and went. Got jobs straight away. Paid tax, council tax. VAT etc etc. 'No recourse to public funds was stamped in my UK Greencard when I lived there.

And of the ones who remain? No doubt most of them are working hard to fill that demographic time bomb we see below... I mean, who else is going to pay your pension and your heating allowance? You think previous governments set that money aside for you? hahahaha!

Yesterday you pointed out that most arent westerners in Thailand are on some form of temporary visa thus are effectively tourists, yet today you infer to these people as now being something else as theyre living in a foreign country .... make your mind up.

Aye, but in your quiter moments, i bet most of these people wish they could easily have Thai 'immigrant visa' instead of non-immigrant visa stamped into their passports.

But even then, they'd still refuse to be classed as a smelly immigrant. No....they are EXPATS!

[ajarnpot]

Look I know people complain about the long waiting times, I know its tough, but what would the UK do if it were to give it away?

For a start a lot of tax payers money is spent on this, 2nd will the English skills of the locals be up to it?

[inthepink]

8 million or so arriving in 12 years is an utter joke, we haven't got the infrastructure for it or the need for them, but lefty's are intent on the destruction of England and do seem content with their work despite the fact most are against it.

http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

I wish you blokes would do a bit more reseach before throwing around numbers and scaring the natives. Or are you the natives who are easily scared?

8 million. Oh the sky is falling. 8 million. Oh those bloody darkies and gypos coming to take over our country. 8 million. I can't count

The UK population has grown by 3.991 million since the start of 2001.

Of that, the natural change (the difference between births and deaths) is about 1.8 million.

So basically, to reach the figure of 3.991million more people in the UK is that you'd need around 2.2m people new to the UK over the past 12 years.

So on a net net basis - that is 182,000 new arrivals to the UK every year.

Or for the more simple minds who I've lost to this point. Of those 8 million who arrived. Nearly 6million of them left.

So the came, worked, paid taxes into your system (or paid international rates of school fees), probably didn't claim a penny of benefit cause they weren't allowed to.

My wife and I were two of those 6 million who came and went. Got jobs straight away. Paid tax, council tax. VAT etc etc. 'No recourse to public funds was stamped in my UK Greencard when I lived there.

And of the ones who remain? No doubt most of them are working hard to fill that demographic time bomb we see below... I mean, who else is going to pay your pension and your heating allowance? You think previous governments set that money aside for you? hahahaha!

Yesterday you pointed out that most arent westerners in Thailand are on some form of temporary visa thus are effectively tourists, yet today you infer to these people as now being something else as theyre living in a foreign country .... make your mind up.

Aye, but in your quiter moments, i bet most of these people wish they could easily have Thai 'immigrant visa' instead of non-immigrant visa stamped into their passports.

But even then, they'd still refuse to be classed as a smelly immigrant. No....they are EXPATS!

This is the point that many people seem to miss - attracting immigrants is a good thing given the ageing population in the UK and other Western nations (and some in Asia are catching up fast), it's the only way that the welfare state can be maintained in anything like its current format. If Thailand continues to discourage immigration, one day it will have a big problem. There may not be a comprehensive welfare system in place here but when there are less people working than hanging around waiting to die, the economy will suffer.

I love the fact that London is a multicultural melting pot - it makes it a far more interesting place to spend time than if it were not. As for immigrants taking advantage of the welfare state, we simply do not have the figures to prove this is the case (or if we do, nobody has presented them here yet). Anecdotal evidence is not worth a whole lot but when I was living in the UK, the people that really used to annoy me were the natives who lived on council estates, claimed every benefit going and spent their days drinking chemical cider and getting stoned.

I met quite a number of people who had no intention of ever finding a job and none of them were immigrants. Conversely, when I fell on hard times and took whatever temporary work I could find, such as filling propane bottles on a small assembly line, nearly all of my co-workers were eastern Europeans or black. Now I don't think they are in the UK stealing the natives' jobs. I think the natives are too bloody lazy to get off their backsides and do an honest day's work.

As for this effective tax rates nonsense for people coming off benefits, I find it incomprehensible. If I were in receipt of £1000 of benefits a month and I was offered a job for the same money I would take it. I wouldn't need any other incentive other than my personal pride and my disinclination to sponge off others.

EDIT: I'd like to say that when I suggested transam was a bigot earlier in this thread, what I really meant to say was that unless he has access to figures that support his opinion, there is a chance that others may consider him to be leaning that way. I don't know him personally so I couldn't say for sure one way or the other - my post could have been worded better.

Edited December 14, 2012 by inthepink

[Berkshire]

I know of no Western country which isn't being raped by immigration except perhaps Canada and they are tight about immigration. Certainly the US is drowning supporting Mexican and S. American immigrants.

Is this true? About Canada I mean. I'm not Canadian, but from what I understand, Canada has sort of an open-door policy with respect to immigrants. In other words, they welcome them with open arms. Shortage of workers I suppose. If you've ever been to Vancouver, for example, there are tons of Chinese there.

Perhaps a real Canadian can confirm.

[StreetCowboy]

I know of no Western country which isn't being raped by immigration except perhaps Canada and they are tight about immigration. Certainly the US is drowning supporting Mexican and S. American immigrants.

Is this true? About Canada I mean. I'm not Canadian, but from what I understand, Canada has sort of an open-door policy with respect to immigrants. In other words, they welcome them with open arms. Shortage of workers I suppose. If you've ever been to Vancouver, for example, there are tons of Chinese there.

Perhaps a real Canadian can confirm.

It was one of the preferred destinations for HK Chinese who were nervous about the return to the glorious motherland in 1997

[NeverSure]

Not long ago I could drive from the US into Canada no problem, and return at will. Now I have to register at the border and show a passport. It seems so weird. They are also possibly going to search my car. If I don't return, I am a fugitive. How things have changed. Not to say that I blame Canada. I wish the US did the same. I wish the UK did the same.

Agreed, maybe a Canadian can clarify as to why.