Legal Advice - Severance Pay And Bonus

[Roachiebkk]

Hi

I've been working for a company here for two years and notified them a while ago that I would be resigning end of March to allow them enough time to find a replacement. The GM actually begged me to stay until after the July peak but i told him sorry. So last week he comes into my office and says he politely wants me to leave before that time so they could start afresh with a new person in the new year. I told him the timing wasn't to my suiting. He simply said that my contract would not be renewed after 1st Feb. I then presented my contract which actually states that there is no expiration date so i will carry on until the date I proposed.

Two days later a resignation letter and a cheque for three months salary are pushed across my desk and they want me to leave next week. I took the cheque and signed the letter but than enquired about my annual bonus. My department ran like a dream this year and there is the precedence of previous years bonuses. They have now bluntly said that the three months severance is all you are entitled to and no reason to pay your 2012 bonus.

So long story aside, does anyone know of a lawyer that can look into this for me and have a full grasp of this situation?

Appreciate any advice, if not I'll just leave with my reputation intact, which is more than what this company will.

[anon210]

Well, as you signed a resignation letter, and furthermore sent a resignation notice, you are normally entitled to no severance pay. 3 months is the severance pay after one year service, but you have not told us what the notice period was. If a notice period is foreseen in your contract, then the duration of that notice should be paid in lieu.

http://bic.thaiembassy.sg/node/121

Bonuses are never paid with a severance pay (and quite rightfully so when you resign). You should have resigned after being paid your bonus. If you had a bonus every year, then you might want to say that this was part of your salary. BTW, your severance pay needs to include any and all benefits to which you are entitled.

[h90]

you resign and want a bonus??? You are joking, right?

And to make it worse, you refuse to help them in the peak saison.

You should have done one of two things:

a) resign after getting the bonus in Jan.

when he asked you for help, say: yes of course I stay these few more month to help in the peak and of course I'll train my replacement person during that time.

[Soutpeel]

Take the cheque for the 3 months and run for the hills, you resigned you are not actually entitled to anything in terms of the labour law ie the severance pay and certainly not the bonus

[anon210]

Take the cheque for the 3 months and run for the hills, you resigned you are not actually entitled to anything in terms of the labour law ie the severance pay and certainly not the bonus

Except that if he provided a notice for a given date, and they want him to leave before that date, they must pay him a severance "in lieu" of notice period + severance pay. Typically,

However having signed the resignation letter and taken the check:

Persuading an employee to sign a resignation letter is a common trick used by Thailand employers to avoid having to make severance payments to employees.

Employees should be aware that they will not be entitled to severance pay if they sign a resignation even if they were in fact terminated prior to signing the resignation letter.

http://thailandlabor.com/severance-claim.html

[impulse]

I've been in pretty much the same situation as the OP. Tried to do the right thing by giving plenty of notice before actually leaving. Got pretty much the same results, though the details differed.

Lesson learned: Get the legal advice before taking the action, not after.

Hope it all works out well for you.

Edited December 13, 2012 by impulse

[Roachiebkk]

Well, as you signed a resignation letter, and furthermore sent a resignation notice, you are normally entitled to no severance pay. 3 months is the severance pay after one year service, but you have not told us what the notice period was. If a notice period is foreseen in your contract, then the duration of that notice should be paid in lieu.

http://bic.thaiembassy.sg/node/121

Bonuses are never paid with a severance pay (and quite rightfully so when you resign). You should have resigned after being paid your bonus. If you had a bonus every year, then you might want to say that this was part of your salary. BTW, your severance pay needs to include any and all benefits to which you are entitled.

Well the bonus is for 2012 and should not be in their consideration for savings in the 2013 budget, seems a bit of a trick to save some baht which may be a short term thought. They decided to terminate my contract and pay in lieu of notice, i dont see why that should effect my 2012 bonus.

Anyway, good luck to them

[Soutpeel]

They decided to terminate my contract and pay in lieu of notice.

No legally you resigned...."Two days later a resignation letter and a cheque for three months salary are pushed across my desk and they want me to leave next week. I took the cheque and signed the letter"

[ThaidDown]

Also if you are leaving next week they might claim that you had not been with them for the whole year and, therefore, you were not entitled to a bonus for 2012.

I understand giving them a heads up as to your future plans is trying to be helpful but unless you really know how the company is going to react would suggest, that in future, you only give what is required either legally or written in your contract.

They wanted you to stay on after March which you declined, as is your right, so maybe caused them to toughen their stance ref bonus.

Also, as soutpeel has pointed out, appears that you resigned and was not terminated.

[Hedghog]

Don't see a complaint at all you have been treated fairly.

Three months severance,very genorous.

You were intending leaving going anyway,maybe no bonus was due.

Check out Jaguar Christmas bonus UK.

Bacon or sausage sandwich....

[Roachiebkk]

you resign and want a bonus??? You are joking, right?

And to make it worse, you refuse to help them in the peak saison.

You should have done one of two things:

a) resign after getting the bonus in Jan.

when he asked you for help, say: yes of course I stay these few more month to help in the peak and of course I'll train my replacement person during that time.

Done all that, offered to train replacement, could not hold on until July with my family now living elsewhere. Actually i never even officially gave notice and so as the bonus applies to 2012, what if anything has it got to do with termination of contract?

[Roachiebkk]

Also if you are leaving next week they might claim that you had not been with them for the whole year and, therefore, you were not entitled to a bonus for 2012.

I understand giving them a heads up as to your future plans is trying to be helpful but unless you really know how the company is going to react would suggest, that in future, you only give what is required either legally or written in your contract.

They wanted you to stay on after March which you declined, as is your right, so maybe caused them to toughen their stance ref bonus.

Also, as soutpeel has pointed out, appears that you resigned and was not terminated.

Actually I was already flying os for a week at Christmas, they used that date. Luckily managed to sell the SR 400 and will lose deposit on condo, after 11 years its time to hang up the boots here. Its a beautiful place with great people mostly and have enjoyed it muchly

[h90]

you resign and want a bonus??? You are joking, right?

And to make it worse, you refuse to help them in the peak saison.

You should have done one of two things:

a) resign after getting the bonus in Jan.

when he asked you for help, say: yes of course I stay these few more month to help in the peak and of course I'll train my replacement person during that time.

Done all that, offered to train replacement, could not hold on until July with my family now living elsewhere. Actually i never even officially gave notice and so as the bonus applies to 2012, what if anything has it got to do with termination of contract?

What has it to do with termination of the contract?

A bonus is given as motivation. Also to bind the employe to the company. What is the point of motivation if you leave? If the bonus is in your contract, of course you have a right to get it. If it is up to the boss than see it with his eyes, what is the point of giving you the money? How does the company get a profit from doing so?

[Soutpeel]

Actually i never even officially gave notice and so as the bonus applies to 2012, what if anything has it got to do with termination of contract?

Yes you did...you resigned in writing and has everything to do with your resignation, as the company will have the position that you are not entitled to the bonus because you resigned.....if you take this to the DOL...first thing they will ask you...did you resign ?.....if answer is yes, which is true in your case..you will not have a leg to stand on in the eyes of the DOL

Count yourself luck you got 3 months severance as legally speaking because you resigned, they were not obligated to pay this out

[Roachiebkk]

you resign and want a bonus??? You are joking, right?

And to make it worse, you refuse to help them in the peak saison.

You should have done one of two things:

a) resign after getting the bonus in Jan.

when he asked you for help, say: yes of course I stay these few more month to help in the peak and of course I'll train my replacement person during that time.

Done all that, offered to train replacement, could not hold on until July with my family now living elsewhere. Actually i never even officially gave notice and so as the bonus applies to 2012, what if anything has it got to do with termination of contract?

What has it to do with termination of the contract?

A bonus is given as motivation. Also to bind the employe to the company. What is the point of motivation if you leave? If the bonus is in your contract, of course you have a right to get it. If it is up to the boss than see it with his eyes, what is the point of giving you the money? How does the company get a profit from doing so?

Hmmm, the bonus is paid to all employees in Thailand for their efforts for that year, thats why its called a Bonus, how many Thai staff just dont come back in the new year after they've received their bonus? Heaps! So nothing to do with motivation, its the 'big thank you' for your 2012 effort.

[Stradavarius37]

You resigned, and are leaving - get going already...

[samran]

you resign and want a bonus??? You are joking, right?

And to make it worse, you refuse to help them in the peak saison.

You should have done one of two things:

a) resign after getting the bonus in Jan.

when he asked you for help, say: yes of course I stay these few more month to help in the peak and of course I'll train my replacement person during that time.

Done all that, offered to train replacement, could not hold on until July with my family now living elsewhere. Actually i never even officially gave notice and so as the bonus applies to 2012, what if anything has it got to do with termination of contract?

What has it to do with termination of the contract?

A bonus is given as motivation. Also to bind the employe to the company. What is the point of motivation if you leave? If the bonus is in your contract, of course you have a right to get it. If it is up to the boss than see it with his eyes, what is the point of giving you the money? How does the company get a profit from doing so?

Hmmm, the bonus is paid to all employees in Thailand for their efforts for that year, thats why its called a Bonus, how many Thai staff just dont come back in the new year after they've received their bonus? Heaps! So nothing to do with motivation, its the 'big thank you' for your 2012 effort.

yeah..... nah.

Even the master of the universe investment bankers wait till AFTER they get their bonus' before moving on.

You were treated extremely fairly given that you resigned.

[GarryP]

If a company no longer wishes to retain your services, it is quite common practice here to request a resignation letter in return for a decent severance package. It prevents the employee from taking the matter to the labor courts, claiming unfair dismissal. I think in your case, as you refused to stay on as long as they wished, they saw no reason to keep you on until the New Year when you would be due your bonus.

Think of your severance as your bonus. As you would eventually have resigned anyway, you would not be due severance pay at such time. That is only due when the company terminates your employment (without cause) and not the other way round.

[samran]

If a company no longer wishes to retain your services, it is quite common practice here to request a resignation letter in return for a decent severance package. It prevents the employee from taking the matter to the labor courts, claiming unfair dismissal. I think in your case, as you refused to stay on as long as they wished, they saw no reason to keep you on until the New Year when you would be due your bonus.

Think of your severance as your bonus. As you would eventually have resigned anyway, you would not be due severance pay at such time. That is only due when the company terminates your employment (without cause) and not the other way round.

otherwise known as swings and roundabouts.