Premier League Clubs To Be Forced To Break Even.

[Chicog]

Not sure if this is going to be anything but cosmetic, but interesting to see who opposes it:

The 20 Premier League chairmen have agreed in principle for clubs to have to break even, despite some opposition at a meeting on Tuesday.

However the exact details of the spending controls has yet to be agreed - specifically around how much wealthy owners can put into the club to cover losses, sources close to the process have disclosed.

The club chairmen have now asked PL executives to bring back detailed plans on the spending controls for the next meeting on February 6, and on proposals to cap wage rises for players in the short term.

It is understood Manchester City, Fulham and Aston Villa remained opposed to any controls but approval by only 14 of the 20 clubs is needed for the moves to go through.

[mjj]

I'm interested to see what the rules will be. Just a blanket break even rule would just be wrong in my view, all this will do is keep the top teams at the top and the bottom team down.

Not that it would ever happen, but I would like to see most of the money made in the epl be distributed evenly amongst all the teams with just a few ways to make more money over another team.

Man united have the biggest attendances, can charge sponsors more, sell more shirts, etc than the Wigans of the world, so how could Wigan ever challenge? I know they don't now, but should a moneybags come along they could. If a blanket break even rule applied they never will.

[SantiSuk]

Its a h_ll of a lot more complicated than it sounds. The easier way to restore some kind of balance between aspirations of all teams would be wages caps, like they have in the NFL (American 'football'). I can't see that working in the more international world of proper football because the EPL needs to maintain competitivenes vs a whole lot of other national leagues and shackling their ability to compete for the best players would be feircely resisted.

Continuing a system that allows rich owners to gift in capital which is then used for revenue earning doesn't change the present distortions - surely that has to be clamped down on. But then having owners, some of whom take money out of the club vs others who leave it in is also a distortion. [Not many do take money out of their clubs despite the fans belief otherwise]. Theoretically there should be a requirement for clubs to return a dividend on capital to the owners if we really want to restore parity - that would go down like a lead balloon with the fans - as it has done with MUFC fans whose club is in essence paying out a return on owners capital, albeit through debt capital. Look at how their fans feel that the owners are robbing the club blind (probably are cos the interest rates are probably penal, but in essence I can't see why fans should expect owners not to make a reasonable return out of their investments). Then you get the ridiculous situation at Arsenal where the fams complain about Kroenke not giving enough financial backing to the club whereas in reality he has not taken one red cent out of the club, preferring to hope to see the value of his investment grow without drawing down on it.

Breaking even is a nice imprecise term with lots of scope for accountants to fiddle the numbers (how quickly do you write off player signing on fees against the profit & loss account? How quickly do you depreciate the stadium facilities? Has a big bearing on 'breaking even'. I forsee lots of detailed rules ahaead with lots of scope for clever accountants to find ways around the rules.

My brain hurts too much to suggest something that will work. Product of being back in the UK and picking up some dam_n cold virus within 24 hours of landing (God - how I hate European winters - let me go back to the warmth now please)!

[tw25rw]

Maybe it's time they shared gate receipts 50/50. They already do it for cup games.

[rijit]

Maybe it's time they shared gate receipts 50/50. They already do it for cup games.

the gate split used to be 50/50 for all games until the big boys all voted against it

And I believe the wording of the of the fifa thingy is something like clubs must show acceptable efforts to be breaking even in 3 years, from the intermittent chats on various podcasts chat i've heard about it, that the consensus of opinion was there was plenty of room for clubs to 'escape', for the time being anyway.

[smokie36]

Its a h_ll of a lot more complicated than it sounds. The easier way to restore some kind of balance between aspirations of all teams would be wages caps, like they have in the NFL (American 'football'). I can't see that working in the more international world of proper football because the EPL needs to maintain competitivenes vs a whole lot of other national leagues and shackling their ability to compete for the best players would be feircely resisted.<br /><br />Continuing a system that allows rich owners to gift in capital which is then used for revenue earning doesn't change the present distortions - surely that has to be clamped down on. But then having owners, some of whom take money out of the club vs others who leave it in is also a distortion. [Not many do take money out of their clubs despite the fans belief otherwise]. Theoretically there should be a requirement for clubs to return a dividend on capital to the owners if we really want to restore parity - that would go down like a lead balloon with the fans - as it has done with MUFC fans whose club is in essence paying out a return on owners capital, albeit through debt capital. Look at how their fans feel that the owners are robbing the club blind (probably are cos the interest rates are probably penal, but in essence I can't see why fans should expect owners not to make a reasonable return out of their investments). Then you get the ridiculous situation at Arsenal where the fams complain about Kroenke not giving enough financial backing to the club whereas in reality he has not taken one red cent out of the club, preferring to hope to see the value of his investment grow without drawing down on it.<br /><br />Breaking even is a nice imprecise term with lots of scope for accountants to fiddle the numbers (how quickly do you write off player signing on fees against the profit & loss account? How quickly do you depreciate the stadium facilities? Has a big bearing on 'breaking even'. I forsee lots of detailed rules ahaead with lots of scope for clever accountants to find ways around the rules.<br /><br />My brain hurts too much to suggest something that will work. Product of being back in the UK and picking up some dam_n cold virus within 24 hours of landing (God - how I hate European winters - let me go back to the warmth now please)!

Good post Santi. I really don't know that there is an enforceable answer other than the current market forces etc.

Bit windy on this island in Trang tonight.

[carmine]

Maybe it's time they shared gate receipts 50/50. They already do it for cup games.

Why? Why should your team for example benefit from bigger teams that attract bigger attendances? Theres no justification for that. None whatsoever.

Sounds like you lot are on the ponce for tranfer funds because the Dildo Twins don't want to spend their own cash.

[mjj]

Maybe it's time they shared gate receipts 50/50. They already do it for cup games.

Why? Why should your team for example benefit from bigger teams that attract bigger attendances? Theres no justification for that. None whatsoever.

Sounds like you lot are on the ponce for tranfer funds because the Dildo Twins don't want to spend their own cash.

Because all of the 20 teams in the epl are playing a part in making it a success.

Aren't you bored with the monopoly a few teams have got on all the trophies and successes?

[carmine]

Maybe it's time they shared gate receipts 50/50. They already do it for cup games.

Why? Why should your team for example benefit from bigger teams that attract bigger attendances? Theres no justification for that. None whatsoever.

Sounds like you lot are on the ponce for tranfer funds because the Dildo Twins don't want to spend their own cash.

Because all of the 20 teams in the epl are playing a part in making it a success.

Aren't you bored with the monopoly a few teams have got on all the trophies and successes?

No thats just Chelsea and City ruining it by spunking obsene amounts of money.

Why should we, for example give West ham haof the gate receipts and free parking for their caravans to help them along?

What needs to happen my friend to even things out is clubs like yours being pulled into line by FFP. I very much doubt though that it will be properly and sucessfully implemented.

[mrbojangles]

Maybe it's time they shared gate receipts 50/50. They already do it for cup games.

Why? Why should your team for example benefit from bigger teams that attract bigger attendances? Theres no justification for that. None whatsoever.

Sounds like you lot are on the ponce for tranfer funds because the Dildo Twins don't want to spend their own cash.

Because all of the 20 teams in the epl are playing a part in making it a success.

Aren't you bored with the monopoly a few teams have got on all the trophies and successes?

Albeit I agree all 20 teams do play a part. Do you think viewers around the world really care about watching WBA v Wigan? I don,t mean to be disrespectful to the smaller clubs but it really is about the bigger clubs. When the smaller clubs get relegated i doubt the viewing change. But if say MU, Liverpool and Arsenal all dropped out, there would be a dramatic fall off in viewing figures. Look at the Rangers situation in the SPL

[carmine]

Maybe it's time they shared gate receipts 50/50. They already do it for cup games.

Why? Why should your team for example benefit from bigger teams that attract bigger attendances? Theres no justification for that. None whatsoever.

Sounds like you lot are on the ponce for tranfer funds because the Dildo Twins don't want to spend their own cash.

Because all of the 20 teams in the epl are playing a part in making it a success.

Aren't you bored with the monopoly a few teams have got on all the trophies and successes?

Albeit I agree all 20 teams do play a part. Do you think viewers around the world really care about watching WBA v Wigan? I don,t mean to be disrespectful to the smaller clubs but it really is about the bigger clubs. When the smaller clubs get relegated i doubt the viewing change. But if say MU, Liverpool and Arsenal all dropped out, there would be a dramatic fall off in viewing figures. Look at the Rangers situation in the SPL

Thats so disrespectful!

[mrbojangles]

But true

[MrRed]

I will tell you what else is true how the Fark can City think they are a big club all of a sudden?

[Hedghog]

If the fans didn't pay the extortionate gate fees,the players would have to take pay cuts.

Vote with your feet,go on strike.

Or follow a real sport,Rugby league.

[Chicog]

I'm interested to see what the rules will be. Just a blanket break even rule would just be wrong in my view, all this will do is keep the top teams at the top and the bottom team down.

Not that it would ever happen, but I would like to see most of the money made in the epl be distributed evenly amongst all the teams with just a few ways to make more money over another team.

Man united have the biggest attendances, can charge sponsors more, sell more shirts, etc than the Wigans of the world, so how could Wigan ever challenge? I know they don't now, but should a moneybags come along they could. If a blanket break even rule applied they never will.

The money is divvied up in a number of ways. IIRC there is a set payment for being in the league; scaled payments depending on finishing position; and money based on TV appearances. There are also parachute payments for relegated teams. And it's all going to near-on double at the end of the season.

What's ridiculous is the Russian and the Arab throwing play money at the game and not giving a sh*t about the impact on wages and transfer fees. But yes, Real Madrid are just as bad. When they were $150m in debt after buying Zidane, Madrid council paid that to "buy" their training ground off them, and also paid for a brand new one.

As with the Etihad deal, these boys will always find a way around it.

[tw25rw]

If the fans didn't pay the extortionate gate fees,the players would have to take pay cuts.

Vote with your feet,go on strike.

Or follow a real sport,Rugby league.

I'm all for that, but the English Super League is awful.

It wasn't that long ago that I paid £5 to stand on halfway. Now you would pay 10x that for the dubious privelege of sitting and watching players who earn as much or more in a week as I do in a year. And to be honest, it's less enjoyable overall.

[mjj]

Maybe it's time they shared gate receipts 50/50. They already do it for cup games.

Why? Why should your team for example benefit from bigger teams that attract bigger attendances? Theres no justification for that. None whatsoever.

Sounds like you lot are on the ponce for tranfer funds because the Dildo Twins don't want to spend their own cash.

Because all of the 20 teams in the epl are playing a part in making it a success.

Aren't you bored with the monopoly a few teams have got on all the trophies and successes?

Albeit I agree all 20 teams do play a part. Do you think viewers around the world really care about watching WBA v Wigan? I don,t mean to be disrespectful to the smaller clubs but it really is about the bigger clubs. When the smaller clubs get relegated i doubt the viewing change. But if say MU, Liverpool and Arsenal all dropped out, there would be a dramatic fall off in viewing figures. Look at the Rangers situation in the SPL

But if there was a more even spread of money, then the WBA vs Wigan match might have some star players in it, which in turn would attract more supporters and bring in more money and an equalibrium could be achieved.

I know many people (Carmine :-)) keep banging on about the Arab and Russian money ruining the sport, but if you take out Chelsea and City, what have you got? Man utd winning every year in every cup.

Naturally I want Chelsea to win everything, but I would enjoy the top clubs monopoly on the sport being diminished. Every year it the same suspects and its dull to have a team hoping to just challenge for a top half of the table or avoid relegation.

For years it was Man U or Arsenal, then Man U and chelsea, now Man U and city (chelsea at a push). And it has been like this for how long? Since before this century! And can you see it changing? I can't.

[tw25rw]

For years it was Man U or Arsenal, then Man U and chelsea, now Man U and city (chelsea at a push). And it has been like this for how long? Since before this century! And can you see it changing? I can't.

Wasn't that long ago it was Liverpool, occasionally alternating with someone else like Villa or Forest. But the PL era has seen them reduced to relative mediocrity (I always dreamt of them going down. I hate Liverpool), and helped Man Utd back to greatness..

[Chicog]

For years it was Man U or Arsenal, then Man U and chelsea, now Man U and city (chelsea at a push). And it has been like this for how long? Since before this century! And can you see it changing? I can't.

Wasn't that long ago it was Liverpool, occasionally alternating with someone else like Villa or Forest. But the PL era has seen them reduced to relative mediocrity (I always dreamt of them going down. I hate Liverpool), and helped Man Utd back to greatness..

Don't be daft, Liverpool got f***ed when they outlawed the goalkeeper picking up the back pass.