U S Gun Lobby Issues Point-Blank 'no' To Gun Control

[webfact]

US gun lobby issues point-blank 'no' to gun control

WASHINGTON: -- The most powerful gun lobby in the United States has ruled out any support for greater regulation of firearms or ammunition magazines in the wake of the Sandy Hook school massacre.

Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice-president of the National Rifle Association (NRA), said planned legislation to outlaw military-style assault weapons and large-capacity magazines was "phony" and would not work.

He repeated the NRA's call to place an armed guard in every school and argued that prosecuting criminals and fixing the mental health system, rather than gun control, were the solutions to America's mass shooting epidemic.

On December 14, a disturbed local man, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, killed his mother in their Newtown, Connecticut home before embarking on a horrific shooting spree at a local elementary school.

He blasted his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School and shot dead 20 six- and seven-year-old children and six adults with a military-style assault rifle before taking his own life with a handgun as police closed in.

The bloodshed, the latest in a string of mass shootings in the United States, has reopened a national debate on the country's gun laws, which are far more lax than in most other developed nations. [more...]

Full story: http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-gun-lobby-issues-pointblank-no-to-gun-control-20121224-2bu1d.html

-- The Sydney Morning Herald 2012-12-24

[keith101]

i wonder if the powers to be of the gun lobby would react differently if their children are gunned down in the same way shame shame shame on the gun lobby and nra

[DocN]

What a surprise!

I am sick and tired of 1 week of discussing this matter with some hard- headed gun- lovers!

Do me a favor: next time there will be a massacre of the Sandy Hooks - kind, next time there will be a mall- shooting, next time a toddler dies, because a gun went of accidentally...spare me your crocodile tears! Spare me your "R.I.P. little angel", spare me your heartfelt condolences!

You had the chance to FINALLY make a difference and you failed miserably!

History will judge you...I guess, in 2 months or so!

[BookMan]

The gun lobby has a vested interest in selling guns and allowing unfettered access and ownership of guns wherever possible. It is THE GUN LOBBY!

Of course they would not support a ban on the ownership any guns

[Baloo22]

The National Rifle Association (NRA) is defending the rights of U.S. citizens, specifically the rights enumerated in the Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights. I will not surrender my rights because of the actions of a mentally deranged criminal. For decades now the liberals have proceeded with their efforts to "mainstream" mentally ill persons and, in some cases, prevent the mandatory medication such persons when medical professionals have prescribed such medication as necessary. This, and multiple other liberal policies, have much more to do with these tragic incidents than gun ownership.

[submaniac]

History will judge you...I guess, in 2 months or so!

Uhhhh...what happens in 2 months? I didn't get the memo.

It may be beneficial for you to relax a little more. I find target shooting helps calm my nerves. You should try it.

[gl555]

Don't blame the gun lobby alone, it's dumb.

Immediately after the tragedy last week, 42% of Americans polled were still against gun control as compared to the 49% for. You may not like it but almost half of Americans still do not want gun control.

Personally, I don't think gun control works in the US. You have 300 million guns in circulation there and any crazy or criminal can easily get one illegally. Gun control only helps penalise the ones who want to get a gun legally. I am all for a total gun ban but obviously alot of Americans are against it and the law would never pass. Even if it did, how do you enforce that ban when there are already 300 million guns out there?

Edited December 24, 2012 by gl555

[rubl]

"NRA's LaPierre: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun""

http://www.washingto...a921_story.html

[submaniac]

Even the anti-gun people in the United States can recognize one singular thing: the genie is already out of the bottle. 300 million guns. 150 million owners. Even if some law was passed banning ALL guns and requiring citizens to turn them in, do you think people would really comply? I for one would rather be a criminal disobeying an illegal law.

There are still other obstacles besides the gun lobby and the 2nd amendment. For one, there's the ex post facto clause of the constitution, meaning laws cannot retroactively create a crime. Another problem is that congress has no general police powers, but only enacts legislation if it affects interstate commerce.

What this means is this: in 1986 congress enacted a law banning the sale of fully automatic firearms for civilian purchase or ownership. Any fully automatic rifle made and registered before enactment of the law is still legal to sell and own. Congress could not get rid of the previous guns sold prior to the enactment of the law. Even if gun control laws were passed, it will do nothing in regards to the guns already sold and on the market

[BeforeTigers]

The National Rifle Association (NRA) is defending the rights of U.S. citizens, specifically the rights enumerated in the Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights. I will not surrender my rights because of the actions of a mentally deranged criminal. For decades now the liberals have proceeded with their efforts to "mainstream" mentally ill persons and, in some cases, prevent the mandatory medication such persons when medical professionals have prescribed such medication as necessary. This, and multiple other liberal policies, have much more to do with these tragic incidents than gun ownership.

See kids, if the gun nuts could just stick with factual arguments without going off on an ant-"liberal" (whatever that word means) conspiracy rant maybe they'd have a little more credibility.

I lean liberal, but not on the Second Amendment. I support balanced gun rights.

I have my own reasons. But it sure as hell isn't a blind allegiance to the party or some ridiculous pseudo-intellectual circular reasoning: They don't want us to have guns, therefore we need guns, and also they're evil.

Use your own heads. Don't base your argument on conspiracy fantasies.

[BookMan]

The National Rifle Association (NRA) is defending the rights of U.S. citizens, specifically the rights enumerated in the Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights. I will not surrender my rights because of the actions of a mentally deranged criminal. For decades now the liberals have proceeded with their efforts to "mainstream" mentally ill persons and, in some cases, prevent the mandatory medication such persons when medical professionals have prescribed such medication as necessary. This, and multiple other liberal policies, have much more to do with these tragic incidents than gun ownership.

You can still have the right to bear arms Baloo22, but why does it need to be the right to bear such powerful and unneccessary weapons?

[BookMan]

Even the anti-gun people in the United States can recognize one singular thing: the genie is already out of the bottle. 300 million guns. 150 million owners. Even if some law was passed banning ALL guns and requiring citizens to turn them in, do you think people would really comply? I for one would rather be a criminal disobeying an illegal law.

There are still other obstacles besides the gun lobby and the 2nd amendment. For one, there's the ex post facto clause of the constitution, meaning laws cannot retroactively create a crime. Another problem is that congress has no general police powers, but only enacts legislation if it affects interstate commerce.

What this means is this: in 1986 congress enacted a law banning the sale of fully automatic firearms for civilian purchase or ownership. Any fully automatic rifle made and registered before enactment of the law is still legal to sell and own. Congress could not get rid of the previous guns sold prior to the enactment of the law. Even if gun control laws were passed, it will do nothing in regards to the guns already sold and on the market

So because there are guns out there already people should give up and not bother to reduce the unnecessary personal ownership of high powered guns?

[chuckd]

I am sick and tired of 1 week of discussing this matter with some hard- headed gun- lovers!

Go to "Start" on your computer. You will find a window that says "Turn off computer". Click this and your problem is solved.

No more discussions.

[submaniac]

So because there are guns out there already people should give up and not bother to reduce the unnecessary personal ownership of high powered guns?

You mean like pro-gun advocates pointing out the futility of fighting against them such that the gun control advocates give up trying to push through laws which we oppose?

Ummm...yeah kind of.

[F430murci]

Of course, prudent thing would be security plus gun control. These whack jobs are trying hard to make things such a mess that there is no going back and they also fully understand a small but very vocal percentage of population can be manipulated with fear and bs rhetoric most intelligent forward thinking individuals can only shake their heads in amazement at ala Bush axis of evil et al speeches for many years.

Haha, these people probably think Amish mafia is unscripted and Bigfoot is an ancient alien. American greed and patriotic paranoia at it's finest.

Edited December 24, 2012 by F430murci

[BookMan]

So because there are guns out there already people should give up and not bother to reduce the unnecessary personal ownership of high powered guns?

You mean like pro-gun advocates pointing out the futility of fighting against them such that the gun control advocates give up trying to push through laws which we oppose?

Ummm...yeah kind of.

It's a bit of a defeatist attitude don't you think?

'We already have all these guns, so let's not bother to restrict them at all'.

Most people outside of America think they have a problem with their gun ownership laws. Of course that is from the outside looking in and these opinions hold little or no sway with the American public.

Much like so many TV opinions about how Thailand could run its country 'better' I expect.

[mania]

Even if some law was passed banning ALL guns and requiring citizens to turn them in, do you think people would really comply? I for one would rather be a criminal disobeying an illegal law.

There is a well known saying in America if

ever there was any confiscation of guns.

"Sorry I had a boating accident all were lost"

[PREM-R]

Doesn't the second amendment state something like "while it may be necesary to raise a millitia then a citizen of the USA has to right to keep and bear arms". Would it be fair to say that in modern day America the millitia would be the National Guard in which case only members of that organization would be able to "keep and bear arms" under the constitution and Joe Public would have no rights to keep guns at all.

Edited December 24, 2012 by PREM-R

[JDGRUEN]

Anti Gun people in the USA or around the world can rant and rave all they want. Anti Gun U.S. politicians can bluster and boast but the 2nd. Amendment to the U.S. Constitution will not be changed. It would take a super majority of the U.S. House and Senate and the majority of 50 states to ratify any change to any part of the Constitution ... So bottom line on the subject of gun control or gun bans ... IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... The SCOTUS - Supreme Court of the United States in recent times clarified that U.S. individual citizens have a Constitutional Right to own a gun. Also in recent times strict gun laws in Washington D.C. and Chicago have been struck down. Any attempt to ram through new strict gun control legislation will only result in lengthy court cases - which will likely result in the new gun control laws being struck down - based on previous case law... So - I suggest gun control advocates where ever they are - take a deep breath and get over it ... There will be a lot of chest pounding in the coming months - but net net over the coming one - two - three years - nothing will change - we in the USA will keep our guns and will take them where State law allows not Federal law... I suggest anti gun people should concentrate on making it easier to commit, confine and force medicate pyschotic unstable people, fund and place trained armed security guards in schools and allow gun trained teachers - school officials to carry concealed guns inside the school..

[JDGRUEN]

Doesn't the second amendment state something like "while it may be necesary to raise a millitia then a citizen of the USA has to right to keep and bear arms". Would it be fair to say that in modern day America the millitia would be the National Guard in which case only members of that organization would be able to "keep and bear arms" under the constitution and Joe Public would have no rights to keep guns at all.

The Supreme Court of the U.S. has fairly recently ruled that the 2nd. Amendment means that individual Americans have the right to own and bear arms - guns... case closed... the militia argument has been tossed by SCOTUS

[whybother]

The Gun Lobby blames the deaths on "people, not guns", but they won't allow law changes to stop "people" getting guns.

[JDGRUEN]

Of course, prudent thing would be security plus gun control. These whack jobs are trying hard to make things such a mess that there is no going back and they also fully understand a small but very vocal percentage of population can be manipulated with fear and bs rhetoric most intelligent forward thinking individuals can only shake their heads in amazement at ala Bush axis of evil et al speeches for many years.

Haha, these people probably think Amish mafia is unscripted and Bigfoot is an ancient alien. American greed and patriotic paranoia at it's finest.

"Small but vocal percentage" Really Now! Try 100 to 150 MILLION Gun owners - who own somewhere between 200 to 300 Million guns ... No - Not Small - but yes - very vocal ... At nearly 1/2 the total American population and over 1/2 of the American Adult population say - Guns will stay - no limits on the 2nd. Amendment...

[JDGRUEN]

The Gun Lobby blames the deaths on "people, not guns", but they won't allow law changes to stop "people" getting guns.

There are plenty of laws on the books now to determine and restrict who buys a gun - been around for years... and they are enforced.

[Jingthing]

No limits? That's daft. How about selling automatic guns to all comers (any age, no background check, no waiting period) at 7-11s? No limits?

So of course everyone wants SOME limits. And some limits are totally constitutional. Nobody wants to kill the 2nd amendment. The question is about the DETAILS of the limits.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Jingthing

[whybother]

The Gun Lobby blames the deaths on "people, not guns", but they won't allow law changes to stop "people" getting guns.

There are plenty of laws on the books now to determine and restrict who buys a gun - been around for years... and they are enforced.

Some of those laws aren't applied if guns are bought at some places.

[JDGRUEN]

Another factor: Members of the U;S. House of Representatives and Senators (Senate) like to be re-elected to office. They know if they vote for some strict gun control bill that they run a strong chance of NOT being relected next time... The Members of the House have to run for re-election every two years. The House of Representatives has a majority of Republican ... Guess what is Not going to happen in the House...

[JDGRUEN]

No limits? That's daft. How about selling automatic guns to all comers (any age, no background check, no waiting period) at 7-11s? No limits?

So of course everyone wants SOME limits. And some limits are totally constitutional. Nobody wants to kill the 2nd amendment. The question is about the DETAILS of the limits.

There are Federal laws on the books right now that have the restrictions you just listed - and they are enforced... I should have said No more limits..

[Jingthing]

Another factor: Members of the U;S. House of Representatives and Senators (Senate) like to be re-elected to office. They know if they vote for some strict gun control bill that they run a strong chance of NOT being relected next time... The Members of the House have to run for re-election every two years. The House of Representatives has a majority of Republican ... Guess what is Not going to happen in the House...

Yes and that is why the PEOPLE must rise if they really want change and DEMAND change. Not with guns. Not with the NRA. With votes. Many people thought Obama was toast for a second term but the people decided differently. A hard road to control guns? Yes. Impossible? If so, what kind of democracy is that?

[JDGRUEN]

The Gun Lobby blames the deaths on "people, not guns", but they won't allow law changes to stop "people" getting guns.

There are plenty of laws on the books now to determine and restrict who buys a gun - been around for years... and they are enforced.

Some of those laws aren't applied if guns are bought at some places.

The 20 years disturbed young man in the State of CT. tried to buy a gun a few days before the shooting - he was denied. So - somehow he got his mother's legally owned gun and shot her... then he took the rest of them ... He didn't buy a gun legally or illegally - His mother bought the guns Legally --- and STUPIDLY trained her son and did not properly secure them.

[JDGRUEN]

Another factor: Members of the U;S. House of Representatives and Senators (Senate) like to be re-elected to office. They know if they vote for some strict gun control bill that they run a strong chance of NOT being relected next time... The Members of the House have to run for re-election every two years. The House of Representatives has a majority of Republican ... Guess what is Not going to happen in the House...

Yes and that is why the PEOPLE must rise if they really want change and DEMAND change. Not with guns. Not with the NRA. With votes. Many people thought Obama was toast for a second term but the people decided differently. A hard road to control guns? Yes. Impossible? If so, what kind of democracy is that?

Anti Gun Americans are outnumbered significantly - And remember in the November elections 50 Million adult Americans did not vote... and they are not likely to vote to help the Anti Gun people...