Asia's Endangered Species: The Expat

[mrtoad]

But pavements in the UK are covered in dog shit.

[andrew]

Take a walk into Jools bar in Suk soi 4.

All the "this place would fall apart if we werent here" types have long since departed these shores.

Replaced by, Thais who are better educated and qualified, plus can speak two languages and are versed in local etiquette.

I remember hearing the old, "I dont need this job they can stick it up their effin ass", its quite embarrassing to watch a grown man cry and grovel for any position once he is told, "theres the runway, have a nice flight home".

Why would educated career minded thais frequent Jools bar in soi 4?

Good question.

Aren't (weren't) they journalists?

A few years ago I often noticed bilingual Thais in Jools. I assumed they worked for the BP.

But I might be hopelessly wrong. I never spoke to them.

[aussiebebe]

This article is spot on; the investor Jim Rogers once gave a group of students blunt career advice to go to China and learn Chinese - turns out he wasn't far wrong. Asbury Marsden recently surveyed the job requirements for finance positions in Hong Kong and a staggering 40% of them require the applicant to speak Mandarin. It's hardly a surprise given that so many of the biggest IPOs come out of China but it's especially sobering given that we're talking about a place that may overtake the city of London in terms of the number of finance sector jobs as soon as the next couple of years.

[rene123]

Interesting topic. I was just talking to a fellow tonight who has worked as a teacher in China for 6 years. He had some VERY interesting points of view, and one was not to confuse Hong Kong with the mainland Chinese.

[NeverSure]

The idea that Thais will take over all of the good and high level jobs in industry in Thailand is laughable. It hasn't happened in mainland China.

We all know of the shit that's produced in China, unless it is set up and supervised by Westerners. I don't see anyone flocking to buy cheap scooters that are made in China.

Does anyone want to buy a car that's designed and manufactured solely by Thais? Would anyone in a Western country buy a car, even a Japanese brand, that's manufactured in Thailand?

Why don't Honda and Toyota build cars, with much cheaper labor than Japan, in Thailand and then import them into the West? No, Honda Accords and Toyota pickups and Camrys are made in the US. The only consumers who will accept third world shit are third world people.

Yes, land, labor, power and all have gotten so expensive in Japan that it's cheaper to build in the US, which hasn't forgotten how to manufacture things. Neither has Canada which makes some cars for GM.

Thailand is so far away from being able to put it's people on the same stage as the West that it won't happen in my lifetime.

[farang000999]

It is a very popular theme. The rise of the East and the collapse of the West.

Hopefully, at some point Thailand will get sidewalks and smoothly paved roads.

Your mean the kind of sidewalks and smoothly paved roads Great Britain had when it was the world's most powerful economy and half its population lived in abject poverty?

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Come again!

During the 1st and 2nd industrial revolutions and at the height of the Empire, poverty was widespread in Britain.

The post I responded to seemed to imply that sidewalks and smoothly paved roads are somehow indicative of a nation's economic ascension so I used the UK as an example of how the two have little bearing on the other.

Should I dumb it down a little more for you?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Thaivisa Connect App

No I am just saying with all the money flowing into the country it'd be nice if the Thai gov could provide basic amenities, such as school buses and sidewalks for it's people. Or will we have to wait another 100 years?

[farang000999]

This article is spot on; the investor Jim Rogers once gave a group of students blunt career advice to go to China and learn Chinese - turns out he wasn't far wrong. Asbury Marsden recently surveyed the job requirements for finance positions in Hong Kong and a staggering 40% of them require the applicant to speak Mandarin. It's hardly a surprise given that so many of the biggest IPOs come out of China but it's especially sobering given that we're talking about a place that may overtake the city of London in terms of the number of finance sector jobs as soon as the next couple of years.

It's shocking that they have not already overtaken London for finance jobs. The country exists for the purpose of being a tax shelter/business center.

[NeverSure]

It's shocking that they have not already overtaken London for finance jobs. The country exists for the purpose of being a tax shelter/business center.

Only for the few. In a country of what, 1.3 billion people (?) a tiny fraction benefits and the masses are still in abject poverty. This is true of 3rd world countries and it keeps them 3rd world.

This is what will keep Thailand 3rd world. The few rake in profits and under the table payoffs, and the rest either labor long hours for little, or have almost nothing.

China is coming up against a brick wall. It can't afford to feed its people. The few and privileged hoard the wealth and look wealthy. China is hoarding gold when it should be spreading capitalism to its people. The few have capitalism and are getting wealthy, the many are in trouble. The beneficiaries are foreign investors and the local privileged few.

Thailand doesn't have trouble feeding its people as long as the diet is grown locally. Thailand is fortunate about food because it is everywhere. Feeding the people has nothing to do with government policy or income for the people. In China it does.

When China has to buy food, it's rice, and then they begin to export the better and more expensive items. China is exporting a lot of food; anything from honey to orchard crops. Then it buys rice to feed the masses who may be the same people who grow the crops they can't afford to eat.

[expatdreamer]

The idea that Thais will take over all of the good and high level jobs in industry in Thailand is laughable. It hasn't happened in mainland China.

We all know of the shit that's produced in China, unless it is set up and supervised by Westerners. I don't see anyone flocking to buy cheap scooters that are made in China.

Does anyone want to buy a car that's designed and manufactured solely by Thais? Would anyone in a Western country buy a car, even a Japanese brand, that's manufactured in Thailand?

Why don't Honda and Toyota build cars, with much cheaper labor than Japan, in Thailand and then import them into the West? No, Honda Accords and Toyota pickups and Camrys are made in the US. The only consumers who will accept third world shit are third world people.

Yes, land, labor, power and all have gotten so expensive in Japan that it's cheaper to build in the US, which hasn't forgotten how to manufacture things. Neither has Canada which makes some cars for GM.

Thailand is so far away from being able to put it's people on the same stage as the West that it won't happen in my lifetime.

I guess that makes Australians and New Zealanders "third world people"

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/honda_now_built_in_bangkok

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-05-02/ford-opens-thailand-plant-to-expand-southeast-asian-export-hub

[NeverSure]

I guess that makes Australians and New Zealanders "third world people"

http://www.carsguide...uilt_in_bangkok

http://www.businessw...sian-export-hub

Well, if they don't can't design and build their own cars, then they're on a par in that area with Thailand I guess. Thailand and Australia build cars only because someone else designs them and the equipment to make them with, and then sticks around to show them how.

How's Australia's passenger aircraft design and manufacturing coming along?

[expatdreamer]

I guess that makes Australians and New Zealanders "third world people"

http://www.carsguide...uilt_in_bangkok

http://www.businessw...sian-export-hub

Well, if they don't can't design and build their own cars, then they're on a par in that area with Thailand I guess. Thailand and Australia build cars only because someone else designs them and the equipment to make them with, and then sticks around to show them how.

How's Australia's passenger aircraft design and manufacturing coming along?

The Australian car industry has designed and built their own cars many times (Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon for decades), but it's pretty hard to compete with $1.12 labour hour rates

http://www.workplaceinfo.com.au/payroll/payments-and-expenses/112-an-hour-thai-workers-are-bait-for-aussie-car-firms

Many are predicting the end of local car manufacturing in Australia within the next 10 or so years - it would not surprise me. I simply wanted to answer you when you asked "Would anyone in a Western country buy a car, even a Japanese brand, that's manufactured in Thailand?" - it seems many in Australia are happy to do so.

[lazygourmet]

In my field - hospitality industry - the salary package fracture has been definetly done during the end of 90's crisis.

Getting paid in rupiah - i was living in Bali - and being forced to travel cattle was not as sexy as before... but we adapted quickly!

[cdnvic]

Try to discuss the topic without berating each other please. A few posts that got personal had to be removed.

[theblether]

It is a very popular theme. The rise of the East and the collapse of the West.

Hopefully, at some point Thailand will get sidewalks and smoothly paved roads.

Your mean the kind of sidewalks and smoothly paved roads Great Britain had when it was the world's most powerful economy and half its population lived in abject poverty?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Thaivisa Connect App

Come again!

During the 1st and 2nd industrial revolutions and at the height of the Empire, poverty was widespread in Britain.

The post I responded to seemed to imply that sidewalks and smoothly paved roads are somehow indicative of a nation's economic ascension so I used the UK as an example of how the two have little bearing on the other.

Should I dumb it down a little more for you?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Thaivisa Connect App

???

Surreal..........just surreal.

[wamberal]

This article is spot on; the investor Jim Rogers once gave a group of students blunt career advice to go to China and learn Chinese - turns out he wasn't far wrong. Asbury Marsden recently surveyed the job requirements for finance positions in Hong Kong and a staggering 40% of them require the applicant to speak Mandarin. It's hardly a surprise given that so many of the biggest IPOs come out of China but it's especially sobering given that we're talking about a place that may overtake the city of London in terms of the number of finance sector jobs as soon as the next couple of years.

Far more finance positions in Hong Kong would require proficiency in Cantonese, the local dialect, of course.

I worked as an expat for many years, mostly in Hong Kong, and I can say with absolute certainty that the proportion of foreign executives on full expatriate terms is miniscule now. The playing field is now even, obviously locals do have the language advantage, but usually locals and foreigners are on similar terms and conditions for similar jobs and foreigners will only be employed when there is no local who can fill the position, or where highly specialised knowledge or experience must be imported.

[theblether]

This article is spot on; the investor Jim Rogers once gave a group of students blunt career advice to go to China and learn Chinese - turns out he wasn't far wrong. Asbury Marsden recently surveyed the job requirements for finance positions in Hong Kong and a staggering 40% of them require the applicant to speak Mandarin. It's hardly a surprise given that so many of the biggest IPOs come out of China but it's especially sobering given that we're talking about a place that may overtake the city of London in terms of the number of finance sector jobs as soon as the next couple of years.

Far more finance positions in Hong Kong would require proficiency in Cantonese, the local dialect, of course.

I worked as an expat for many years, mostly in Hong Kong, and I can say with absolute certainty that the proportion of foreign executives on full expatriate terms is miniscule now. The playing field is now even, obviously locals do have the language advantage, but usually locals and foreigners are on similar terms and conditions for similar jobs and foreigners will only be employed when there is no local who can fill the position, or where highly specialised knowledge or experience must be imported.

I agree with everything your saying, however there are still serious structural weaknesses in many Asian management structures, and it will be a long time, if ever, before they get sorted out.

I was reviewing some documents earlier today and I reckon there will be a mass movement against Third World imports soon, along the lines of the anti-Child labour campaign that took place a few years ago. People in the West are starting to wise up to a lot of the malpractise and disgusting working conditions in the Eastern factories, as well as the anti-competitive practises that take place. I could go on for hours about it but let's just say that people forecasting the demise of the West have a touch of the Mark Twain's about them.

.

[NeverSure]

This article is spot on; the investor Jim Rogers once gave a group of students blunt career advice to go to China and learn Chinese - turns out he wasn't far wrong. Asbury Marsden recently surveyed the job requirements for finance positions in Hong Kong and a staggering 40% of them require the applicant to speak Mandarin. It's hardly a surprise given that so many of the biggest IPOs come out of China but it's especially sobering given that we're talking about a place that may overtake the city of London in terms of the number of finance sector jobs as soon as the next couple of years.

Far more finance positions in Hong Kong would require proficiency in Cantonese, the local dialect, of course.

I worked as an expat for many years, mostly in Hong Kong, and I can say with absolute certainty that the proportion of foreign executives on full expatriate terms is miniscule now. The playing field is now even, obviously locals do have the language advantage, but usually locals and foreigners are on similar terms and conditions for similar jobs and foreigners will only be employed when there is no local who can fill the position, or where highly specialised knowledge or experience must be imported.

Hong Kong is its own animal. It's had capitalism for 100 years now. I would hardly call it third world as it has one of the highest per capita incomes anywhere. Financially it can't be compared to mainland China. It has had more freedom for its people than most Asian countries too. I think it has about two laws, LOL.

Its people are far more advanced and competitive than the average Chinese or Thai. They are also industrious individually. It's too bad China didn't take a lesson from them 50 years ago. We might not have a communist China or so many in poverty, and their products would be first rate. With its far better land resources, if Thailand had taken a lesson from Hong Kong 50 years ago, it would be one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

The Thais have been held back in so many ways that it would take them 50 years to catch up if they were working on it for everyone, which they aren't yet.

[StreetCowboy]

This article is spot on; the investor Jim Rogers once gave a group of students blunt career advice to go to China and learn Chinese - turns out he wasn't far wrong. Asbury Marsden recently surveyed the job requirements for finance positions in Hong Kong and a staggering 40% of them require the applicant to speak Mandarin. It's hardly a surprise given that so many of the biggest IPOs come out of China but it's especially sobering given that we're talking about a place that may overtake the city of London in terms of the number of finance sector jobs as soon as the next couple of years.

Far more finance positions in Hong Kong would require proficiency in Cantonese, the local dialect, of course.

I worked as an expat for many years, mostly in Hong Kong, and I can say with absolute certainty that the proportion of foreign executives on full expatriate terms is miniscule now. The playing field is now even, obviously locals do have the language advantage, but usually locals and foreigners are on similar terms and conditions for similar jobs and foreigners will only be employed when there is no local who can fill the position, or where highly specialised knowledge or experience must be imported.

Hong Kong is its own animal. It's had capitalism for 100 years now. I would hardly call it third world as it has one of the highest per capita incomes anywhere. Financially it can't be compared to mainland China. It has had more freedom for its people than most Asian countries too. I think it has about two laws, LOL.

Its people are far more advanced and competitive than the average Chinese or Thai. They are also industrious individually. It's too bad China didn't take a lesson from them 50 years ago. We might not have a communist China or so many in poverty, and their products would be first rate. With its far better land resources, if Thailand had taken a lesson from Hong Kong 50 years ago, it would be one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

The Thais have been held back in so many ways that it would take them 50 years to catch up if they were working on it for everyone, which they aren't yet.

It is thanks to communism that Hong Kong is the thriving city that it is now; nothing else could have attracted the number of hard-working Chinese who made it what it is today.

Most of the expats I work with today are Hong Kong Chinese, on expat packages.

SC

[NeverSure]

It is thanks to communism that Hong Kong is the thriving city that it is now; nothing else could have attracted the number of hard-working Chinese who made it what it is today.

Most of the expats I work with today are Hong Kong Chinese, on expat packages.

SC

Just imagine what China would be today if all of the people had the opportunities that those in Hong Kong did.

[KKvampire]

Just an example. I have a Thai friend who works for a major world oil petroleum company in Bangkok.buying equipment and services worth millions of dollars,not baht.This graduate with a masters degree is paid 25000baht a month,paltry by world standards ,but this company is here in an office building using computers.phones simply because of cost.In the Usa or Aus the staff would be paid 200% more for the responsibilties they have and this person has 6 month contracts renewable if the company deems he/she deserves it

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[Berkshire]

With its far better land resources, if Thailand had taken a lesson from Hong Kong 50 years ago, it would be one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

The irony with this statement is if this had happened, most of the expats on TV wouldn't be able to afford to live in Thailand.

[weegee]

Good post this one....and having spent my last year of employment here in Asian countries, it saddened me a lot, to see a great number of Asians in positions of great importance, without the knowledge to back themselves up....A high education is great but a waste of time if you cant comprehend a situation created by an outside source on a higher level...That will be the downfall, and when it comes, the older expats (the ones young people think are past it) will once again be in high demand, to repair and smooth out the damage caused...IT'S called EXPERIENCE !

My general thoughts...NOT based on facts

Singapore in my books will implode in the next generation ....

Thailand will still be the dumping ground for reject and seconds products from other countries, for many years to come.

China will be a spent force by 2015 economically.

Malaysia will curse the day it's government made the statement years ago....ALL whites out of Asia by 2020

[chiangmaikelly]

Good post this one....and having spent my last year of employment here in Asian countries, it saddened me a lot, to see a great number of Asians in positions of great importance, without the knowledge to back themselves up....A high education is great but a waste of time if you cant comprehend a situation created by an outside source on a higher level...That will be the downfall, and when it comes, the older expats (the ones young people think are past it) will once again be in high demand, to repair and smooth out the damage caused...IT'S called EXPERIENCE !

My general thoughts...NOT based on facts

Singapore in my books will implode in the next generation ....

Thailand will still be the dumping ground for reject and seconds products from other countries, for many years to come.

China will be a spent force by 2015 economically.

Malaysia will curse the day it's government made the statement years ago....ALL whites out of Asia by 2020

The future of Singapore is reflected in the bond and currency markets and economic forecasts; all very positive on the future.

Thailand is home to new factories by Mercedes and BMW, dumping sure sure.....

China spent by 2015? How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?

I think Billy Hughes is dead, isn't he?

[thaibeachlovers]

In as much as there are some dinosaurs that cannot believe that Thais are capable of running successful international companies, it would be a mistake for the Thais to believe they don't need any more foreign management input.

Taking the best from everywhere is good practise, as soon as you think you have it made, your beat.

There are still structural problems within the management structures of many Asian countries, quality control can be patchy, going on diabolical. Anyone involved in importing goods from Asia could tell you bizarre and comical stories about the state some goods arrive in.

On top of that Human Resources are effectively ignored, and health and safety is virtually overlooked. I would say that's a greater problem in China than in Thailand to be fair, but Thailand doesn't demonstrate best practise.

If Asia thinks it kniws it all, it will get a rude shock.

<Human Resources are effectively ignored, and health and safety is virtually overlooked>

I concur.

[thaibeachlovers]

Good post this one....and having spent my last year of employment here in Asian countries, it saddened me a lot, to see a great number of Asians in positions of great importance, without the knowledge to back themselves up....A high education is great but a waste of time if you cant comprehend a situation created by an outside source on a higher level...That will be the downfall, and when it comes, the older expats (the ones young people think are past it) will once again be in high demand, to repair and smooth out the damage caused...IT'S called EXPERIENCE !

My general thoughts...NOT based on facts

Singapore in my books will implode in the next generation ....

Thailand will still be the dumping ground for reject and seconds products from other countries, for many years to come.

China will be a spent force by 2015 economically.

Malaysia will curse the day it's government made the statement years ago....ALL whites out of Asia by 2020

The future of Singapore is reflected in the bond and currency markets and economic forecasts; all very positive on the future.

Thailand is home to new factories by Mercedes and BMW, dumping sure sure.....

China spent by 2015? How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?

I think Billy Hughes is dead, isn't he?

<How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?>

Which country would you prefer to be a citizen of? Who cares if there are high speed trains if you're going to die of air pollution?

[thaibeachlovers]

With its far better land resources, if Thailand had taken a lesson from Hong Kong 50 years ago, it would be one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

The irony with this statement is if this had happened, most of the expats on TV wouldn't be able to afford to live in Thailand.

Closer to Thailand, if it had looked to Singapore as a model, not many of us non working expats would be living here either.

However, if Thailand could have developed the infrastructure of Singapore and kept the sanuk ( now that's a word you don't hear much anymore ) of the 1990s, Thailand would be the best country in the world to live in.

[chiangmaikelly]

Good post this one....and having spent my last year of employment here in Asian countries, it saddened me a lot, to see a great number of Asians in positions of great importance, without the knowledge to back themselves up....A high education is great but a waste of time if you cant comprehend a situation created by an outside source on a higher level...That will be the downfall, and when it comes, the older expats (the ones young people think are past it) will once again be in high demand, to repair and smooth out the damage caused...IT'S called EXPERIENCE !

My general thoughts...NOT based on facts

Singapore in my books will implode in the next generation ....

Thailand will still be the dumping ground for reject and seconds products from other countries, for many years to come.

China will be a spent force by 2015 economically.

Malaysia will curse the day it's government made the statement years ago....ALL whites out of Asia by 2020

The future of Singapore is reflected in the bond and currency markets and economic forecasts; all very positive on the future.

Thailand is home to new factories by Mercedes and BMW, dumping sure sure.....

China spent by 2015? How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?

I think Billy Hughes is dead, isn't he?

<How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?>

Which country would you prefer to be a citizen of? Who cares if there are high speed trains if you're going to die of air pollution?

Interesting question. Given the choice of same size homes and income I would prefer to live in Hong Kong over Sydney. Since I think it is only a matter of time before China buys Australia it's really a moot point anyway isn't it?

[weegee]

Good post this one....and having spent my last year of employment here in Asian countries, it saddened me a lot, to see a great number of Asians in positions of great importance, without the knowledge to back themselves up....A high education is great but a waste of time if you cant comprehend a situation created by an outside source on a higher level...That will be the downfall, and when it comes, the older expats (the ones young people think are past it) will once again be in high demand, to repair and smooth out the damage caused...IT'S called EXPERIENCE !

My general thoughts...NOT based on facts

Singapore in my books will implode in the next generation ....

Thailand will still be the dumping ground for reject and seconds products from other countries, for many years to come.

China will be a spent force by 2015 economically.

Malaysia will curse the day it's government made the statement years ago....ALL whites out of Asia by 2020

The future of Singapore is reflected in the bond and currency markets and economic forecasts; all very positive on the future.

Thailand is home to new factories by Mercedes and BMW, dumping sure sure.....

China spent by 2015? How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?

I think Billy Hughes is dead, isn't he?

Hi CMK....as i said...MY thoughts not fact....

Bonds, Currency Markets, economic Forecasts....thats what is the problem throughout the world today isnt it?

I said dumping ground for Rejects and inferior products.....nothing to do with factories and infrastructure,they will come with time.

He didnt make the statement...The Malaysian Government of the time did....didnt they???

Anyhow it's New Year.....hope you have a good one

[chiangmaikelly]

Good post this one....and having spent my last year of employment here in Asian countries, it saddened me a lot, to see a great number of Asians in positions of great importance, without the knowledge to back themselves up....A high education is great but a waste of time if you cant comprehend a situation created by an outside source on a higher level...That will be the downfall, and when it comes, the older expats (the ones young people think are past it) will once again be in high demand, to repair and smooth out the damage caused...IT'S called EXPERIENCE !

My general thoughts...NOT based on facts

Singapore in my books will implode in the next generation ....

Thailand will still be the dumping ground for reject and seconds products from other countries, for many years to come.

China will be a spent force by 2015 economically.

Malaysia will curse the day it's government made the statement years ago....ALL whites out of Asia by 2020

The future of Singapore is reflected in the bond and currency markets and economic forecasts; all very positive on the future.

Thailand is home to new factories by Mercedes and BMW, dumping sure sure.....

China spent by 2015? How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?

I think Billy Hughes is dead, isn't he?

Hi CMK....as i said...MY thoughts not fact....

Bonds, Currency Markets, economic Forecasts....thats what is the problem throughout the world today isnt it?

I said dumping ground for Rejects and inferior products.....nothing to do with factories and infrastructure,they will come with time.

He didnt make the statement...The Malaysian Government of the time did....didnt they???

Anyhow it's New Year.....hope you have a good one

Happy New year to you too. No, I just meant that Billy was of the same mind only with a different race.

[thaibeachlovers]

Good post this one....and having spent my last year of employment here in Asian countries, it saddened me a lot, to see a great number of Asians in positions of great importance, without the knowledge to back themselves up....A high education is great but a waste of time if you cant comprehend a situation created by an outside source on a higher level...That will be the downfall, and when it comes, the older expats (the ones young people think are past it) will once again be in high demand, to repair and smooth out the damage caused...IT'S called EXPERIENCE !

My general thoughts...NOT based on facts

Singapore in my books will implode in the next generation ....

Thailand will still be the dumping ground for reject and seconds products from other countries, for many years to come.

China will be a spent force by 2015 economically.

Malaysia will curse the day it's government made the statement years ago....ALL whites out of Asia by 2020

The future of Singapore is reflected in the bond and currency markets and economic forecasts; all very positive on the future.

Thailand is home to new factories by Mercedes and BMW, dumping sure sure.....

China spent by 2015? How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?

I think Billy Hughes is dead, isn't he?

<How many high speed trains in China? How many in Australia?>

Which country would you prefer to be a citizen of? Who cares if there are high speed trains if you're going to die of air pollution?

Interesting question. Given the choice of same size homes and income I would prefer to live in Hong Kong over Sydney. Since I think it is only a matter of time before China buys Australia it's really a moot point anyway isn't it?

<only a matter of time before China buys Australia>

LOL.

If they want a bargain sale, just stop buying the raw materials and wait till the economy collapses.