New Year Resolution - Time For Some Self Control

[Tolley]

Go and waste you money if you wish.

Thanks - I'll do that .

\

Diabetes is one disease where people who learn about it do better than people who go to see doctors. People who self study usually end up doing what they need to do to "cure" themselves. People who are lazy and rely on doctor's advice more often than not end up on diabetic medication.

I've seen posts on here by diabetics (of many years with bad numbers) who rely on doctors who don't have the slightest clue how to interpret basic numbers. It's shameful. It's sad. It's wrong.

Good luck! You're going to need it. It's your money to waste.

P.S. The doctor who first tested me (he didn't notice the result as he was focused on liver and kidney numbers - I had to ask him "don't you think my blood sugar is a bit high") was diabetic and I saw him down at the supermarket with a trolley full of chocolate.

Yep you have to take control of your own health and dont depend on doctors for everything. It is your life and your body it pays to do your own research.

[SlyAnimal]

I was thinking tonight, as I was eating dinner, that it's probably worthwhile asking about good vs bad foods.

My diet does primarily, at present, revolves around eating the food I like (Although trying to generally choose healthier options), but reducing the portion size (regular sized portions, but only eating half of the rice) and reducing the frequency (2 meals a day, no snacks, except occasionally some fruit).

To help me choose some of the healthier options, when I'm choosing my meals, can you give me a rough idea on if any of these are extremely healthy / unhealthy etc. Some of them I know are unhealthy, but have listed them anyway so that there's something to compare them to (e.g. other meals that I eat might be equally as unhealthy, or worse, so I might be avoiding some of them while eating even worse alternatives).

These are the meals I regularly eat (I've put a phonetic of the Thai name + rough translation, as everyone probably knows each by different translations)

Dum Ma Muang (Spicy mango salad)

Dum Thai (Spicy Papaya Salad with peanuts)

Yum Mu Yor (Spicy onion and processed pork salad)

Yum Mu Grob (Spicy onion and crispy pork salad)

Pad Pak Mu (Vegetables with pork)

Ka naa Mu Grob (Fried Crispy Pork with Chinese Kale)

Gai Pad Met Ma Muang (Chicken with Cashew Nuts)

Kra pow Mu (Pork with Basil)

Yum Blah Duke <deleted> (Deep fried fish with a spicy mango salad)

Gai Tort (Fried chicken)

Pad Thai

Quoi Te Ow Mu (Pork noodle soup)

Quoi Jub (Noodle soup)

And likewise the fruit which I like to eat/snack on:

Bananas

Watermelon

Mango

Grapes

Lum Yai

Pineapple

Cucumber (I don't eat them much now, but thinking about it, it might be healthier than some others? and I do like them)

(And if these fruits aren't particularly good for a diet, are there any which might be better?(And which are also cheap/easily available in Thailand))

Likewise, does a fried egg with a meal make much of a difference?

Edit: Added 2x "Yum" meals which I also eat.

[Tolley]

I was thinking tonight, as I was eating dinner, that it's probably worthwhile asking about good vs bad foods.

My diet does primarily, at present, revolves around eating the food I like (Although trying to generally choose healthier options), but reducing the portion size (regular sized portions, but only eating half of the rice) and reducing the frequency (2 meals a day, no snacks, except occasionally some fruit).

To help me choose some of the healthier options, when I'm choosing my meals, can you give me a rough idea on if any of these are extremely healthy / unhealthy etc. Some of them I know are unhealthy, but have listed them anyway so that there's something to compare them to (e.g. other meals that I eat might be equally as unhealthy, or worse, so I might be avoiding some of them while eating even worse alternatives).

These are the meals I regularly eat (I've put a phonetic of the Thai name + rough translation, as everyone probably knows each by different translations)

Dum Ma Muang (Spicy mango salad)

Dum Thai (Spicy Papaya Salad with peanuts)

Pad Pak Mu (Vegetables with pork)

Ka naa Mu Grop (Fried Crispy Pork with Chinese Kale)

Gai Pad Met Ma Muang (Chicken with Cashew Nuts)

Kra pow Mu (Pork with Basil)

Yum Blah Duke <deleted> (Deep fried fish with a spicy mango salad)

Gai Tort (Fried chicken)

Pad Thai

Quoi Te Ow Mu (Pork noodle soup)

Quoi Jub (Noodle soup)

And likewise the fruit which I like to eat/snack on:

Bananas

Watermelon

Mango

Grapes

Lum Yai

Pineapple

Cucumber (I don't eat them much now, but thinking about it, it might be healthier than some others? and I do like them)

(And if these fruits aren't particularly good for a diet, are there any which might be better?(And which are also cheap/easily available in Thailand))

Likewise, does a fried egg with a meal make much of a difference?

Lot of fried and deep fried food there. If you want to eat thai food that is healthy you need to cook it yourself at least that way you can control the ingredients. Your current diet is a walking time bomb.

[tropo]

I was thinking tonight, as I was eating dinner, that it's probably worthwhile asking about good vs bad foods.

My diet does primarily, at present, revolves around eating the food I like (Although trying to generally choose healthier options), but reducing the portion size (regular sized portions, but only eating half of the rice) and reducing the frequency (2 meals a day, no snacks, except occasionally some fruit).

To help me choose some of the healthier options, when I'm choosing my meals, can you give me a rough idea on if any of these are extremely healthy / unhealthy etc. Some of them I know are unhealthy, but have listed them anyway so that there's something to compare them to (e.g. other meals that I eat might be equally as unhealthy, or worse, so I might be avoiding some of them while eating even worse alternatives).

These are the meals I regularly eat (I've put a phonetic of the Thai name + rough translation, as everyone probably knows each by different translations)

Dum Ma Muang (Spicy mango salad)

Dum Thai (Spicy Papaya Salad with peanuts)

Pad Pak Mu (Vegetables with pork)

Ka naa Mu Grop (Fried Crispy Pork with Chinese Kale)

Gai Pad Met Ma Muang (Chicken with Cashew Nuts)

Kra pow Mu (Pork with Basil)

Yum Blah Duke <deleted> (Deep fried fish with a spicy mango salad)

Gai Tort (Fried chicken)

Pad Thai

Quoi Te Ow Mu (Pork noodle soup)

Quoi Jub (Noodle soup)

And likewise the fruit which I like to eat/snack on:

Bananas

Watermelon

Mango

Grapes

Lum Yai

Pineapple

Cucumber (I don't eat them much now, but thinking about it, it might be healthier than some others? and I do like them)

(And if these fruits aren't particularly good for a diet, are there any which might be better?(And which are also cheap/easily available in Thailand))

Likewise, does a fried egg with a meal make much of a difference?

Lot of fried and deep fried food there. If you want to eat thai food that is healthy you need to cook it yourself at least that way you can control the ingredients. Your current diet is a walking time bomb.

I thought it was a pretty good diet. I think "walking time bomb" is a bit harsh.

There's lots of vegetables and salad in there.

I don't believe the way they fry food here is bad. Have a look around at the generally thin population. It's not the oil that is fattening people up and they don't normally smoke the oil when they fry.

I don't have time to go into specifics right now - perhaps in another post later.

[SlyAnimal]

Cool, just when you have time Tropo

Most of the ones which I think are particularly unhealthy (e.g. Mu Grob / Yum Blah Duke <deleted>), I haven't eaten much since I started my diet. But I will still eat them sometimes, just I try to have other choices. Main thing I'm wondering, is that some of them are probably less healthy than what I think (e.g. The salads, which I generally have been thinking of as "healthy" choices, are "sweet" salads, in that they are primarily Mango or Pappaya, so might be very sugary? Thus could be just as bad as some of the things I consider "unhealthy"? And something like Yum Mu Yor, which has a lot of processed pork in it, I have no idea whether this is good or bad.

So I guess the main thing I'm looking for, is to sorta point out what is probably the best, what is the worst and what is in between.

And as well, if eating them spicy is of benefit or not? I read that chilli increases your metabolism, not sure if it's true or not, but I generally like to eat most of these reasonably spicy, and would probably increase the chilli portion in the ones which aren't spicy if I knew it would indeed increase my metabolism.

[robblok]

I would not last long on a diet like that though i like the foods. I need to be in control of my food to a higher level. This is not needed for everyone but for me it is. I think you have to find out if you loose weight on this its ok if not remove some stuff.

Unlike Tropo i don't think the foods are that healthy, they can be if prepared yourself and fried with better oils. I would not eat these kind of things at the "cheap" food stalls as they don't use the best oils ingredients. That does not mean the food is bad but you cant expect that much for the price your paying (im making assumptions on where you eat here).

Anyway just check how you go on this diet and adapt it. Personally i eat the laab moo or laab gai as that is a spicy salad with almost no additives. I stay away from most deep fried stuff because i have seen the oils. Same like the oils they fry or bake in are usually the cheapest they can find. However if you can get your GF to cook and buy her some ricebran oil and good ingredients then it works a lot better. It all depends how the stuff is prepared and how you respond to it. Some people can get away with a lot more and still have results others struggle a bit more. That is life its not always fair.

[Tolley]

Deep fried foods in who knows what oil, heavy sugared food and highly salted food and white rice that is not a good diet in any mans language.

You need to cook you own food so you know what is going into it.

I would go towards meat with salad and/or veggies and a bit of brown rice.

Further i would limit the fruit especially the high sugar fruits. Nothing wrong with one or two pieces of fruit a day but dont go overboard.

[SlyAnimal]

Deep fried foods in who knows what oil, heavy sugared food and highly salted food and white rice that is not a good diet in any mans language.

Further i would limit the fruit especially the high sugar fruits. Nothing wrong with one or two pieces of fruit a day but dont go overboard.

Cheers, that's a little bit more along the lines of the reply I was looking for.

Although are you able to give me an idea on which of the foods on that list, or even just which fruits, might be the better ones?

I assume that Bananas or Cucumbers would be good snack foods, what else might be good? As I usually try to keep a bunch of the small bananas in the fruit bowl, as I eat maybe 3-5 each day, (The other fruits I normally only eat if my gf buys them for herself), but don't know if there are other similar or better options?

This is a lifestyle change, rather than a full scale diet. Since I expect that since I'm eating roughly 1/2 - 1/3rd of what I was previously, and exercising every day, that this will primarily drive my weight loss, but when I'm eating I would prefer to eat the healthier options where possible (I assume that Mu Grob/Crispy Pork and Yum Blah Duke <deleted>, are probably the most unhealthy on the list, even though they are unfortunately my favourite foods there, so I haven't eaten them much since I started trying to lose weight, but I don't know where the others would likely stack up in comparison).

[SlyAnimal]

What causes Fasting Blood Sugar levels to go down?

I would assume, being Fasting levels, that food wouldn't effect them. I assumed they weren't, but thought I'd continue testing each day to see how losing weight effected them, and to get a more average level. But my levels have dropped down quite considerably.

As although my first 3x fasting readings were 104 102 104, my 4th and 5th readings have been 93 and 90 (mg/DL).

The 93 I assumed was just a random fluctuation, but with this morning's result of 90, I'm not so sure now. If they are affected by food, I assume my levels will just fluctuate depending on how close they are to the weekend (As I am quite relaxed over the weekend with what I eat). As my diet hasn't really changed between since I started doing the tests (Although on Sunday I did have KFC + some bar snacks + 2 beers last Friday, then MK's roast Duck + Crispy Pork (Mu Grop) on Saturday evening, which might have stayed in my system for 2-4 days?).

Exercise wise, I've been doing reasonably similar exercises each day, either rowing (increasing distances each day) or running (Although for the last 2 nights, I've been doing 3x sets of 20 situps just before sleep). I've lost a little over 2 kilos over those 5 days, but I see this as more of a result of the exercise etc, or will this effect my Fasting Blood Sugar as well? (If it did, I'd assume it's still not enough to reduce by blood sugar by roughly 10 mg/DL)

Which of the above do you think might have brought my levels down? (Diet / Regular Exercise / Exercise before sleep / Weight Loss)

[robblok]

The levels go down because of diet (what you eat and all the other things you mentioned) If you can keep them that low that would be a great improvement. But i think diet plays the largest part in it.

As for your weight loss, please remember your weight can fluctuate because of salt levels and how much water you hold. If you eat a lot of carbs on a day you will hold onto more water. So those things can influence your number.

Your weight loss seems to go fast if you can keep up that pace (often people cant i could not either you might hit a platteau) you will be at your goals fast and then you have to keep doing something.

[SlyAnimal]

Yeah my weight fluctuates a bit. Since I like to go away somewhere most weekends, which usually means less exercise and a less restrictive diet (my diet actually seems like a bit of a hybrid of what was described in the interval fasting thread. However mine is more 2:5 not 5:2 (although I didn't read anything about interval fasting previously, although the theory behind it is interesting).

So for the past month, from Monday to Friday I usually lose around 2.5 - 3.5kg, then gain 1 - 2kg on Sat/Sun. So my net weight decreases by around 1.5kg each week

So I see significant losses each day, which makes me feel awesome every weekday, even though I know that it's often simply purging the weekend's excesses. I hope when it plateaus off a bit that I can still keep my motivation to diet/train, or perhaps it will even increase my motivation to train harder.

Although my gains at the weekend do make me feel a bit bad, it is soo good to be able to look forward to eating KFC or pizza etc on the weekend. Although its sorta strange as the thought of being able to eat anything on the weekend is awesome, but I still don't eat anywhere near as much as I did previously, and usually still shy away from most junkfood/soft drinks etc.

Also, as today is the end of the month I think I said I'd post up my progress:

01/01/13 - 112.2kg

31/01/13 - 105.2kg

So 7kg lost so far

[robblok]

Great work, and yes its hard to keep motivated if you hit a plateau Once you are there ill give you some other advice how to break it. It might mean skipping a cheat weekend. Meaning also being strickt that weekend for a while to slowly go through it. Though in a way your cheat weekend is caloric cycling (read up on that)

I am still unsure on the starving reflex and the slowing down of BMR its hard to find answers on that as everyone says something else and there is not much real evidence on it. Of course you use less calories if you dont have to lug around a lot of extra weight and even fat uses some calories.

[poanoi]

Lucky bastard.........i havnt lost a single kilo

[tropo]

What causes Fasting Blood Sugar levels to go down?

I would assume, being Fasting levels, that food wouldn't effect them. I assumed they weren't, but thought I'd continue testing each day to see how losing weight effected them, and to get a more average level. But my levels have dropped down quite considerably.

As although my first 3x fasting readings were 104 102 104, my 4th and 5th readings have been 93 and 90 (mg/DL).

The 93 I assumed was just a random fluctuation, but with this morning's result of 90, I'm not so sure now. If they are affected by food, I assume my levels will just fluctuate depending on how close they are to the weekend (As I am quite relaxed over the weekend with what I eat). As my diet hasn't really changed between since I started doing the tests (Although on Sunday I did have KFC + some bar snacks + 2 beers last Friday, then MK's roast Duck + Crispy Pork (Mu Grop) on Saturday evening, which might have stayed in my system for 2-4 days?).

Exercise wise, I've been doing reasonably similar exercises each day, either rowing (increasing distances each day) or running (Although for the last 2 nights, I've been doing 3x sets of 20 situps just before sleep). I've lost a little over 2 kilos over those 5 days, but I see this as more of a result of the exercise etc, or will this effect my Fasting Blood Sugar as well? (If it did, I'd assume it's still not enough to reduce by blood sugar by roughly 10 mg/DL)

Which of the above do you think might have brought my levels down? (Diet / Regular Exercise / Exercise before sleep / Weight Loss)

Depending on your level of insulin resistance, exercise and diet are no guarantee that you will bring your fasting numbers down by any amount. I've been exercising and controlling diet for many years and my FBS this morning was 112. That changes by the minute. If I take it 30 minutes later it could be 10 points lower. This "upon waking" number is controlled by the liver...which attempts to keep blood sugar levels stable during fasting (sleep) conditions.

Stop obsessing with FBS and start testing after meals. Your FBS numbers are not bad and very difficult to control. The important thing is to see how you handle meals and to bring those numbers down by diet choices.

You have direct control over these numbers and bear in mind that it's the time over 140 mg/dl which causes cellular damage.

Edited January 31, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

Lucky bastard.........i havnt lost a single kilo

It's not down to luck.

[tropo]

Just to add to my last post. After waking up at 112 mg/dl, 1 hour after a fairly high carbohydrate breakfast I measured 95 mg/dl and it will stay below 100 mg/dl for most of the day apart from a few short spikes up to about 120 mg/dl at worst.

At the risk of being a repetitive bore (perhaps I am already ) , it's important for people to understand the futility of stressing about fasting levels. We don't have much control over fasting levels as they are not influenced directly by food intake and insulin release. It is nice to see them coming down, but in my experience over many years of testing they can yoyo up and down for no obvious reasons.

I have noticed an upward trend in these numbers over the last month though, which may be worth mentioning here. I have stopped doing cardio this month to concentrate on a new weight program which is very intense. Perhaps there is a correlation here.

I'm not concerned though, as long as my postprandial readings stay as low as they have been.

[poanoi]

Didnt quite understand: will your blood sugar go up or down due to skipping cardio and focus on weight ?

[SlyAnimal]

So I should probably also measure my blood sugar levels around 1h after eating?

@ Rob - Yeah you're right, what I'm doing does look a lot like caloric cycling. Although it looks like they more recommend maybe separating the high calorie days, to further trick the body, and then trying to do harder workouts on those days. I don't think I'll separate out the days yet, as what I'm doing seems to work for me now, but increasing the exercise I do on the high calorie days is something I was thinking about trying to do already (Simply because it's the weekend so I sometimes have more free time lol).

I'll definitely look into applying that theory more when I want to start building more muscle though (Which will probably be once I've reached my weight goal and also hit a weight loss plateau, but one step at a time for now).

[tropo]

So I should probably also measure my blood sugar levels around 1h after eating?

@ Rob - Yeah you're right, what I'm doing does look a lot like caloric cycling. Although it looks like they more recommend maybe separating the high calorie days, to further trick the body, and then trying to do harder workouts on those days. I don't think I'll separate out the days yet, as what I'm doing seems to work for me now, but increasing the exercise I do on the high calorie days is something I was thinking about trying to do already (Simply because it's the weekend so I sometimes have more free time lol).

I'll definitely look into applying that theory more when I want to start building more muscle though (Which will probably be once I've reached my weight goal and also hit a weight loss plateau, but one step at a time for now).

That's when you should be testing. I'm trying to explain the limited benefit of constantly testing FBS, but I must not be making it clear enough lol.

FBS is influenced by many things. It can be influenced by how well you sleep. i.e. Did you test immediately after waking form a deep sleep, or after hours of light REM sleep or just laying in bed trying to get back to sleep. Cortisol (stress hormone) and other hormones (adrenaline etc) will influence it too. The point is that it will not be directly influenced by what you eat.

Obviously to prevent blood sugar spikes you need to control what you eat - knowledge gained from lots of testing.

Regarding calorie cycling. What's the point? It will balance out in the end. If you eat too much, no matter when you eat it, if you don't burn it you'll store it to be used the next day, week or month. Fat storage is a natural process of the body to store energy. It's only considered "evil" when it becomes a cosmetic problem. Even on the leanest of people fat cells are constantly storing and releasing energy.

You've had a very good month doing what you're doing - why make it complicated?

Edited January 31, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

Didnt quite understand: will your blood sugar go up or down due to skipping cardio and focus on weight ?

I can't answer that yet as I usually do both. I've only cut out the cardio for a short time and I'll be back into it again soon.

You shouldn't be stressing about blood sugar right now. You're completely normal.

[poanoi]

I have issues...i starve and eat pretty much every 3rd hour, except in morning before workout where i eat every 2nd hour, even at night i go up and eat.

I also dont want to starve since i'm building and starving means muscle suffering,

and to further complicate things i'm also a smoker, but since i find the sigs so disgusting, i have to eat or at least drink something to trigger desire for a sig.

Few are the times in my life when i ate this much, and how do i go about that starving sensation ?

[tropo]

I have issues...i starve and eat pretty much every 3rd hour, except in morning before workout where i eat every 2nd hour, even at night i go up and eat.

I also dont want to starve since i'm building and starving means muscle suffering,

and to further complicate things i'm also a smoker, but since i find the sigs so disgusting, i have to eat or at least drink something to trigger desire for a sig.

Few are the times in my life when i ate this much, and how do i go about that starving sensation ?

You're not starving if you eat every 2nd or 3rd hour. If you eat that much you'll probably get fat or stay that way if you already are. I don't see the point of stressing about muscle building if it's covered in fat.

Perhaps you're taking some powerful anabolic steroids? Some of them can dramatically increase appetite. I can't think of any other reason why a person would want to eat that often unless you're just force feeding yourself in the mistaken belief you need to to build muscle.

This reminds me of what I often read on bodybuilding forums. Young guys stressing about going catabolic while they sleep...as if the body is that inefficient that you start feeding on muscle while you're sleeping.

[poanoi]

Ok thanks, that might help me resist the urge to eat, knowing i won't lose muscle.

Wish there was an Hunger Inhibitor

[robblok]

Like Tropo is saying, the every 3rd hour is a bit crazy. Don't worry about the musles starving if you eat enough its ok. If you eat that much its no wonder you haven't lost any weight.

[SlyAnimal]

Regarding calorie cycling. What's the point? It will balance out in the end. If you eat too much, no matter when you eat it, if you don't burn it you'll store it to be used the next day, week or month. Fat storage is a natural process of the body to store energy. It's only considered "evil" when it becomes a cosmetic problem. Even on the leanest of people fat cells are constantly storing and releasing energy.

You've had a very good month doing what you're doing - why make it complicated?

Yep I agree, I'm not going to complicate it.

At present I unintentionally do my own calorie cycling, and am happy with that, although am looking to increase my exercise on the weekends as I usually have free time. Otherwise I'll keep doing what I'm doing unless my weight loss plateaus off (At which point I'll find something to break the plateau), or once I've reached my goal, if my weight loss plateaus off, then I'll probably look into applying more theory with more of a focus on building muscle. But one step at a time, even if I keep the same weight loss going (Although I assume it'll slow down) it'll take me another 2 months to get to my weight loss goal.

[poanoi]

I have found out a way that is destined to help:

Here is protein powder for a good price in thailand, http://www.club-protein.com/

it is absolutely disgusting, but now go and buy natural youghurt at bigC and a banana,

mix it all together with 0% milk and you get a rather tasty protein shake,

it will replace many a meals for me from now on

[tropo]

I have found out a way that is destined to help:

Here is protein powder for a good price in thailand, http://www.club-protein.com/

it is absolutely disgusting, but now go and buy natural youghurt at bigC and a banana,

mix it all together with 0% milk and you get a rather tasty protein shake,

it will replace many a meals for me from now on

I disagree that it's disgusting. I can mix it straight with milk and it has a pleasant taste and that's using 60 - 70 grams. I just add a little apple sauce or apple juice and it's great. Even straight with water it's quite palatable.

[SlyAnimal]

Just finished the RoiEt mini marathon (10.5km), it wasn't a quick run (1h 6min) but I finished which was my goal, and so now I have a time to compete against for next time also now I know that I can run the distance relatively easily (I didn't need to stop or walk at all). Biggest problem I had was a blister, otherwise I could have probably run further as my pace (which admittedly wasn't quick) didn't sapping my energy too much. I'll feel more confident to increase my training distances a bit further hopefully I can drop my time over 10km in the next couple of months and then maybe try to target a half marathon for May/June or there abouts

[robblok]

Just finished the RoiEt mini marathon (10.5km), it wasn't a quick run (1h 6min) but I finished which was my goal, and so now I have a time to compete against for next time also now I know that I can run the distance relatively easily (I didn't need to stop or walk at all). Biggest problem I had was a blister, otherwise I could have probably run further as my pace (which admittedly wasn't quick) didn't sapping my energy too much. I'll feel more confident to increase my training distances a bit further hopefully I can drop my time over 10km in the next couple of months and then maybe try to target a half marathon for May/June or there abouts

great to have goals like that at the moment my training is a bit less as normal as i hurt my shoulder (minor as far as i see but dont want to get it worse). I think injuries are always something to watch out for. Your blisters are one just be careful it does not get any worse.

You did good i like your progress reports keep it up.

[londoedan]

Just finished the RoiEt mini marathon (10.5km), it wasn't a quick run (1h 6min) but I finished which was my goal, and so now I have a time to compete against for next time also now I know that I can run the distance relatively easily (I didn't need to stop or walk at all). Biggest problem I had was a blister, otherwise I could have probably run further as my pace (which admittedly wasn't quick) didn't sapping my energy too much. I'll feel more confident to increase my training distances a bit further hopefully I can drop my time over 10km in the next couple of months and then maybe try to target a half marathon for May/June or there abouts

Good effort - I've got a 10K in about 3 weeks and if I can get round in about an hour I'll be thrilled.

How did you cope with the heat / humidity ?