There's A Secret War In Thailand No One's Talking About

[chooka]

Muslims... Bringing peace by slaughtering people for 1400 years!

Christianity, 2000 years of much the same.

The good news is that the atheists are winning. Polytheism is dead, only one more god to go.

Atheists - those are the folks who deny the existence of whatever it is that gives them the right to deny its existence.

I'll follow religion when someone can actually prove the existance of a god. I don't care if it is a greek god, water god, thunder god or a muslim god. Choose anyone and prove they exist and I am in. I mean factually exist and not just in one imgination or fairy world. The Easter Bunny, Father Christmas and the Gods are all just fantasy although I did get a dollar from the Tooth Fairy.

[beautifulthailand99]

I have relatives in Yala and have travelled quite widely around the occupied south - lots of roadblocks and troops but if you stick to the main towns at night and have local support you should be ok. Having seen some of the border towns which are mostly muslim I was surprised to see so many girly bars , massage parlours and freelancers who are no doubt servicing both the locals and Malaysian tourists. I got to thinking that if this was really a religious thing with Bin Laden type supporters who want some pure form of Islamism then why dont they attack these places. Why just Thai targets - the only thing that makes sense for me to undertsand this is that these are southern gangsters and mafia who want Thai interests out of the way so they can control the loot for themselves without interference - and the Thai elite - another set of gangsters in uniforms dont care enough about the South to shed much of their own blood or treasure defending it. It may also be the reason that the muslim insurgents have kept off bombing Bangkok,Pattaya or any of the mainstream Thai areas as this would result in a bloody backlash against them. Just my two-pennyworth of thoughts I have no concrete knowledge other than instinct that this might be the way things are.

[SteeleJoe]

Atheists - those are the folks who deny the existence of whatever it is that gives them the right to deny its existence.

I have rarely if ever seen such a fine example of circular logic. (And that's being kind - in actual fact, it's virtually nonsensical.)

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[osten]

Thailand has the capability to use enough force to secure the South, but intentionally does not.

The reason is because Malaysia (the Muslims) would call on the UN and other human rights groups for help, and it would eventually be found and shed light on what Thailand already knows...the land in question that is being fought over indeed belongs to Malaysia.

Outside pressures would force Thailand to surrender that land, which they do not want to. Therefore, by allowing the problem to continue, Thailand keeps the land.

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Edited January 1, 2013 by osten

[TheGhostWithin]

Despite questionable facts, such as the number of deaths, it is a good thing to see at least an article written by the foreign press. It would be great to see more of such articles and articles that represent the Pattani separatist's background issues and point of view. Something that the Thais squash and ignore.

The way that this "Thai south" thing will come to an end will be after more and more journalists break the truth. When the non-Thais in the southern provinces establish a visible presence in world media things will start to change. Thais will lose their grip and control. Eventually, the Thais will just "walk out." No other choice really.

Have you ever been to the south? I have. My partners aunt and uncle were shot in the field of their farm, gathering vegetables to sell at the weekend market. They were murdered because they were teachers. They were murdered because they were not Muslim. They were murdered because they did not teach under Sharia practice.

All the world media has ever done in violent conflict is inflame the situation and encourage those whom are outgunned (and not always outnumbered) to fight against the system, right or wrong. Exposing issues to the media is not always the answer to resolving conflict. It is not the answer when those you wish to give exposure to are the ones slaughtering innocent men and women in their farming fields, beheading monks in their temples at night and bombing religiously neutral businesses.

Your answer shows a lack of understanding for the conflict in the south of Thailand.

[SteeleJoe]

Thailand has the capability to use enough force to secure the South, but intentionally does not.

The reason is because the Muslims would call on the UN and other human rights groups for help and to pleed their case, and it would be found what Thailand already knows...the land in question indeed belongs to Malaysia. Outside pressures would force Thailand to surrender that land, which they do not want to. Therefore, by allowing the problem to continue, Thailand keeps the land.

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You might want to do some reading on counter-insurgency (or just look at the world around you and it's history) if you think the application of force on its own can or will suffice to solve the problem.

Oh, and such appeals have already been made to the UN and elsewhere.

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Edited January 1, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[terryp]

NO Thai Govenments care; it so far from Bangkok ...but see how they all run around when something like Bali takes place and sadly this must be high on the sepratists agenda, look what happend in BKK a few years ago on New Years Eve

[osten]

I am not implying force would solve the problem (just look at US in the Middle East). I was merely unerring that Thailand has no incentive to solve the problem because it would lead to a consequence they don't want.

Even though appeals may have already been lodged, Thailand has a stronger case if they can still point to Muslim attacks on the locals.

If you know any affluent Thai families who will tell you the truth about the reason the problems in the south continue, they will tell you this also.

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Edited January 1, 2013 by osten

[TheGhostWithin]

@steelejoe,

Are Muslims not allowed to have their own schools if they give the same subjects and live up to the same standards as normal schools ? If not i can understand part of their frustration not that it is worth bombing and killing over. I am however not a believer in strict Muslim (or any other religion) schools (when they promote intollerance).

I am an Athiest, I come from a family of Christians. My family resent my decision to be Atheist. The reason I grew up Atheist, was because I had friends of various religions, and felt upset that I would be forced to disassociate with them simply due to a conflict in beliefs. If I have no beliefs, then I can have friends in ANY religion - except for Islam. In Islam, I am still a Kaffir, for I am a non-believer.

In the Koran, I would be given the choice to convert. If I refuse, I would be killed. No other religion I have ever encountered has written within its' pages a clear path on how to convert or cleanse by force. Only Islam.

Is this what you would deem "moderate"? Teaching children that they must swear by all words of the holy book, including to convert or kill, is moderate and acceptable for you? It is something I could never have my children learning.

[SteeleJoe]

@steelejoe,

Are Muslims not allowed to have their own schools if they give the same subjects and live up to the same standards as normal schools ? If not i can understand part of their frustration not that it is worth bombing and killing over. I am however not a believer in strict Muslim (or any other religion) schools (when they promote intollerance).

I am an Athiest, I come from a family of Christians. My family resent my decision to be Atheist. The reason I grew up Atheist, was because I had friends of various religions, and felt upset that I would be forced to disassociate with them simply due to a conflict in beliefs. If I have no beliefs, then I can have friends in ANY religion - except for Islam. In Islam, I am still a Kaffir, for I am a non-believer.

In the Koran, I would be given the choice to convert. If I refuse, I would be killed. No other religion I have ever encountered has written within its' pages a clear path on how to convert or cleanse by force. Only Islam.

Is this what you would deem "moderate"? Teaching children that they must swear by all words of the holy book, including to convert or kill, is moderate and acceptable for you? It is something I could never have my children learning.

I am somewhat mystified at your tolerance for the faith of everyone but Muslims - to the extent that you can have friends only with people who aren't Muslim - as I find the Christian position only marginally (though significantly) more acceptable: my wife and children, as well as hundreds of millions of people around the world - no matter how good and decent or what they do for the betterment of their community or the world - are all condemned to an eternity of agony and suffering.

However, in day to day reality, that makes no more difference in my interaction with Christians than the teachings of the Koran do with my very amicable daily interaction with Muslims.

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[TheGhostWithin]

Thailand has the capability to use enough force to secure the South, but intentionally does not.

The reason is because Malaysia (the Muslims) would call on the UN and other human rights groups for help, and it would eventually be found and shed light on what Thailand already knows...the land in question that is being fought over indeed belongs to Malaysia.

Outside pressures would force Thailand to surrender that land, which they do not want to. Therefore, by allowing the problem to continue, Thailand keeps the land.

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Can you supply the proof you have which confirms the three southern states (I assume that you know what you are talking about and that these are the states you are talking about - Pattani, Narathiwat and Yala) are infact sovereign territories of Malaysia and are being illegally occupied by Thailand?

It was my understanding that although Thailand did not take this area by force, and that Malaysia did not surrender these areas under duress, that these provinces are legally Thai territory - and that at the time of the handover, locals were infact reasonably happy for this to take place as Thailand was wealthy in comparison to Malaysia and provided more support to the area than the rulers all the way in Kuala Lumpur were prepared to.

[simple1]

Unfortunately, more and more conflicts around the world have that common denominator.......muslim.

Need I say more?

This is war being prompted from the side lines by the Bashir crowd from Indonesia, their belief is for a secular state btwn Malaysia and Thailand, that's a cause of concern

Abu Bakar Bashir from Indonesia? He is an islamic extremist & will not be wanting a secular state.

[DP25]

@steelejoe,

Are Muslims not allowed to have their own schools if they give the same subjects and live up to the same standards as normal schools ? If not i can understand part of their frustration not that it is worth bombing and killing over. I am however not a believer in strict Muslim (or any other religion) schools (when they promote intollerance).

There are government sponsored Islamic schools in Thailand. Especially in the south. There are even government run colleges of Islamic studies. They aren't forcing any Muslims to bow before statues of Buddha. There are also Islamic schools attached to Mosques, just like with Buddhist schools attached to temples and Christian schools attached to churches. There is plenty of choice. The spokesman for the terrorist group is lying to gain sympathy.

Many parents of children in the south don't WANT their child to go to some Mosque school where they only read the Koran for 8 hours a day, and prefer they go to a public school where they can at least attempt to learn other subjects.

[SteeleJoe]

Unfortunately, more and more conflicts around the world have that common denominator.......muslim.

Need I say more?

This is war being prompted from the side lines by the Bashir crowd from Indonesia, their belief is for a secular state btwn Malaysia and Thailand, that's a cause of concern

Abu Bakar Bashir from Indonesia? He is an islamic extremist & will not be wanting a secular state.

I just assumed the poster was confused about the meaning of "secular" (ie thought it meant the opposite of what it does).

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[submaniac]

Can you supply the proof you have which confirms the three southern states (I assume that you know what you are talking about and that these are the states you are talking about - Pattani, Narathiwat and Yala) are infact sovereign territories of Malaysia and are being illegally occupied by Thailand?

The Southern Provinces are not property of Malaysia. It is a bit of a complicated situation historically, but in a nutshell: the way that kingdoms and kings worked in Southeast Asia is a bit different than what people think of in Europe and the way it is now. Now there is one King of Thailand, for the entire country, which is a unified country. Before, each city/regional area had a King. For example Naruasuan was the King of the city of Ayuthaya. And he was a subordinate King to the King of Burma, and he rebelled.

Historically, the Southern Provinces was once separate kingdom(s). see:

http://www.thailandd...d_kingdoms.html

The South was briefly independent for a while, then unified under King Taksin in the 1700's.

Edited January 1, 2013 by submaniac

[simple1]

Thailand has the capability to use enough force to secure the South, but intentionally does not.

The reason is because Malaysia (the Muslims) would call on the UN and other human rights groups for help, and it would eventually be found and shed light on what Thailand already knows...the land in question that is being fought over indeed belongs to Malaysia.

Outside pressures would force Thailand to surrender that land, which they do not want to. Therefore, by allowing the problem to continue, Thailand keeps the land.

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Can you supply the proof you have which confirms the three southern states (I assume that you know what you are talking about and that these are the states you are talking about - Pattani, Narathiwat and Yala) are infact sovereign territories of Malaysia and are being illegally occupied by Thailand?

It was my understanding that although Thailand did not take this area by force, and that Malaysia did not surrender these areas under duress, that these provinces are legally Thai territory - and that at the time of the handover, locals were infact reasonably happy for this to take place as Thailand was wealthy in comparison to Malaysia and provided more support to the area than the rulers all the way in Kuala Lumpur were prepared to.

Malaya was a British colony, it was not an independent country called Malaysia who were consulted for their agreement to the transfer of territory. It was a decision solely made by the UK and Siam. The Malay population in the three Deep South provinces were not consulted for the transfer of territory to Thai sovereignty by the British at the time of the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909. One of the geopolitical drivers for the treaty was to keep the Thais onside as a buffer with the French in Indochina.

EDIT: To put this in a wider context, the British & French were at the same time busily dividing up North Africa, Near and Middle East. When objections were raised by the local rulers military force was used to keep them inline, plus divide and conquer. Usual stuff for the time...

Edited January 1, 2013 by simple1

[Potosi]

The hypocrisy drags on seemingly forever, and this DT article is part of it. For starters, 'Muslim insurgency/terrorism' is false labeling. Their religion isn't the issue, even here in Pattaya there is a bloody Mosque. Their Malay language and culture are being quashed. Muslim-terrorism fear mongers have covered and lied about the causes of the conflict every single day for the last eight years. Is it a war? 5,400 victims in 8 years, many of them perished in massacres by the security forces. Thats 675 on average per year in the 3 provinces, 225 in one province. Now it's difficult to get statistics on crime in Thailand, here is a website that says more than 20,000 murders with firearms per year. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

Can we estimate the total number of homicides at 30,000 per year, including those beaten to death, knifed, strangled etc.? Thailand has 76 provinces, so we get an average of 395 homicides per province. It's far more likely to become the victim of a homicide or traffic accident in Pattaya, than of a bomb in the South. And that's what this 'war' is also being used for, to keep crime and traffic risks under the rug. Of course there are no tourists anymore in the South. That's the land of trigger-happy security forces with assault guns and grenades, and a shoot-first-ask-questions-later policy.

[TheGhostWithin]

I am somewhat mystified at your tolerance for the faith of everyone but Muslims - to the extent that you can have friends only with people who aren't Muslim - as I find the Christian position only marginally (though significantly) more acceptable: my wife and children, as well as hundreds of millions of people around the world - no matter how good and decent or what they do for the betterment of their community or the world - are all condemned to an eternity of agony and suffering.

However, in day to day reality, that makes no more difference in my interaction with Christians than the teachings of the Koran do with my very amicable daily interaction with Muslims.

My standpoint exists, because no other religion openly records within its pages that one must choose to convert or pass into the afterlife. No other religion converts by force. We can look at the Crusades, which were a response to years of Muslim aggression on Christian holy lands. But neither of these are relevant. The three states are not holy lands and Thais for the most part are not Christian. This is Islam fighting a war against a war against Buddhism here in Thailand, a war against Hinduism in India, a war against Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism in China, a war against Christians in Iraq, which has now led to a war of Muslims against each other.

Please state a single religion of which the teachings specifically encourage such open aggression against every other religion and I will stand silent.

[SteeleJoe]

I am somewhat mystified at your tolerance for the faith of everyone but Muslims - to the extent that you can have friends only with people who aren't Muslim - as I find the Christian position only marginally (though significantly) more acceptable: my wife and children, as well as hundreds of millions of people around the world - no matter how good and decent or what they do for the betterment of their community or the world - are all condemned to an eternity of agony and suffering.

However, in day to day reality, that makes no more difference in my interaction with Christians than the teachings of the Koran do with my very amicable daily interaction with Muslims.

My standpoint exists, because no other religion openly records within its pages that one must choose to convert or pass into the afterlife. No other religion converts by force. We can look at the Crusades, which were a response to years of Muslim aggression on Christian holy lands. But neither of these are relevant. The three states are not holy lands and Thais for the most part are not Christian. This is Islam fighting a war against a war against Buddhism here in Thailand, a war against Hinduism in India, a war against Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism in China, a war against Christians in Iraq, which has now led to a war of Muslims against each other.

Please state a single religion of which the teachings specifically encourage such open aggression against every other religion and I will stand silent.

Why am I supposed to support a position I have not put forth as being my own?

Why would I care if you stand silent or not?

But carry on ignoring what I actually did post and posting self-righteous non sequiturs in response if it pleases you.

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[submaniac]

Actually Simple1 also brings up another good point:

"Malaysia" (or parts of it) had already been colonized by the West. Malacca was originally subjugated by Portugal beginning in 1511, and eventually belonged to Great Britain. Great Britain didn't leave until the 1960's. So when anyone makes a claim that the Southern Provinces were stolen or belong to Malaysia, what you ignore is that Malaysia wasn't itself a country and was itself subject to other countries. The Southen Provinces weren't "stolen" by Thailand from Malaysia. "Malaysia" didn't exist, and it was ultimately an agreement between Thailand and England that shaped the control of the Southern Provinces.

[TheGhostWithin]

[snip]

Their Malay language and culture are being quashed. Muslim-terrorism fear mongers have covered and lied about the causes of the conflict every single day for the last eight years. Is it a war? 5,400 victims in 8 years, many of them perished in massacres by the security forces. Thats 675 on average per year in the 3 provinces, 225 in one province.

[/snip]

Were these deaths by the Oso (government sponsored security forces) Muslim or Buddhist deaths? I was not aware of such figures. Where have you discovered this?

I have to say that many Oso have also lost their lives as a result of insurgent attacks.

Many Buddhist villages are armed by the government, and undergo firearms training if they opt for it. Some villages have sand bagged guard houses with 24 hour armed guards. Last year they found the body of one man in the south, the last man in the village (80 years old or so), beheaded and the last member of his village which was not murdered.. he refused to leave after Muslims had attempted to force him from his land. Just an example of the near one-sided savagery of the insurgency. I can show you photos of what radical Islam and Yaba traffickers bringing their goods from Malaysia into Thailand through the jungles does to normal people..

[whybother]

Thailand has the capability to use enough force to secure the South, but intentionally does not.

The reason is because Malaysia (the Muslims) would call on the UN and other human rights groups for help, and it would eventually be found and shed light on what Thailand already knows...the land in question that is being fought over indeed belongs to Malaysia.

Outside pressures would force Thailand to surrender that land, which they do not want to. Therefore, by allowing the problem to continue, Thailand keeps the land.

Why would the area belong to Malaysia? Thailand controlled it before Malaysia existed.

[Tatsujin]

The ruling class are only concerned about Bankok, anywhere else is not important!

But the so-called 'ruling class' is not running the country....and for a short stint, haven't done so for the last decade.

Oh, really?

[simple1]

[snip]

Their Malay language and culture are being quashed. Muslim-terrorism fear mongers have covered and lied about the causes of the conflict every single day for the last eight years. Is it a war? 5,400 victims in 8 years, many of them perished in massacres by the security forces. Thats 675 on average per year in the 3 provinces, 225 in one province.

[/snip]

Were these deaths by the Oso (government sponsored security forces) Muslim or Buddhist deaths? I was not aware of such figures. Where have you discovered this?

I have to say that many Oso have also lost their lives as a result of insurgent attacks.

Many Buddhist villages are armed by the government, and undergo firearms training if they opt for it. Some villages have sand bagged guard houses with 24 hour armed guards. Last year they found the body of one man in the south, the last man in the village (80 years old or so), beheaded and the last member of his village which was not murdered.. he refused to leave after Muslims had attempted to force him from his land. Just an example of the near one-sided savagery of the insurgency. I can show you photos of what radical Islam and Yaba traffickers bringing their goods from Malaysia into Thailand through the jungles does to normal people..

Before you go any further you really need to acquaint your self with the history of the Deep South regards the current situation as your understanding appears to be flawed,. read post 52 & 56.

Thai security forces also carry out false flag as well as extra judicial killings. You will recall the Tea Shop killing when a baby was also killed. The murdered were mainly local Muslims, including the child. Thai military had checkpoints at both ends of the road going through the area who permitted the killers to travel through the security points. Also the two teachers (Buddhist) recently murdered were allegedly carried out in revenge after the murder of two Islamic teachers. So it goes on & on with the propaganda war and tit for tat killings by both sides of the conflict. As many people have said, including the Thai government (mainly ignored by the military) that dialogue and compromise is required for a cessation of the conflict. If not, in my personal opinion the conflict (no facts ) will become more radicalised, as has already been forecast for 2013.

Edited January 1, 2013 by simple1

[gatorsoft]

@steelejoe,

Are Muslims not allowed to have their own schools if they give the same subjects and live up to the same standards as normal schools ? If not i can understand part of their frustration not that it is worth bombing and killing over. I am however not a believer in strict Muslim (or any other religion) schools (when they promote intollerance).

I am an Athiest, I come from a family of Christians. My family resent my decision to be Atheist. The reason I grew up Atheist, was because I had friends of various religions, and felt upset that I would be forced to disassociate with them simply due to a conflict in beliefs. If I have no beliefs, then I can have friends in ANY religion - except for Islam. In Islam, I am still a Kaffir, for I am a non-believer.

In the Koran, I would be given the choice to convert. If I refuse, I would be killed. No other religion I have ever encountered has written within its' pages a clear path on how to convert or cleanse by force. Only Islam.

Is this what you would deem "moderate"? Teaching children that they must swear by all words of the holy book, including to convert or kill, is moderate and acceptable for you? It is something I could never have my children learning.

I am somewhat mystified at your tolerance for the faith of everyone but Muslims - to the extent that you can have friends only with people who aren't Muslim - as I find the Christian position only marginally (though significantly) more acceptable: my wife and children, as well as hundreds of millions of people around the world - no matter how good and decent or what they do for the betterment of their community or the world - are all condemned to an eternity of agony and suffering.

However, in day to day reality, that makes no more difference in my interaction with Christians than the teachings of the Koran do with my very amicable daily interaction with Muslims.

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I think what drives the intolerance of the Muslim religion is there tendency to use violence and terrorism to promote their religion. Certainly in the past, the Christians have been guilty of the same, but that is sometime in the past and no longer prevalent. It is hard to be tolerant of a religion that promotes the slaughter of innocents simply because of their religious views. Not that mystifying.

[SteeleJoe]

[snip]

Their Malay language and culture are being quashed. Muslim-terrorism fear mongers have covered and lied about the causes of the conflict every single day for the last eight years. Is it a war? 5,400 victims in 8 years, many of them perished in massacres by the security forces. Thats 675 on average per year in the 3 provinces, 225 in one province.

[/snip]

Were these deaths by the Oso (government sponsored security forces) Muslim or Buddhist deaths? I was not aware of such figures. Where have you discovered this?

I have to say that many Oso have also lost their lives as a result of insurgent attacks.

Many Buddhist villages are armed by the government, and undergo firearms training if they opt for it. Some villages have sand bagged guard houses with 24 hour armed guards. Last year they found the body of one man in the south, the last man in the village (80 years old or so), beheaded and the last member of his village which was not murdered.. he refused to leave after Muslims had attempted to force him from his land. Just an example of the near one-sided savagery of the insurgency. I can show you photos of what radical Islam and Yaba traffickers bringing their goods from Malaysia into Thailand through the jungles does to normal people..

Before you go any further you really need to acquaint your self with the history of the Deep South regards the current situation as your understanding appears to be flawed...

+1

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[nong38]

It amazes me when I watch the News in Thailand that more importance is not placed on what goes one in the deep south, its almost like its in denial that there is a problem, police taking phots with no people with yabba gets a much better billing as do fatal road accidents, thats Thai editorial for you.

I think the UK and US governements tell you to stay away from the southern provinces but do they actually give a reason for the advice?

There is no easy answer to this problem but it seems that Islam is not compatible with any other religion or following and it is not just the south now is it, remember the trouble on the Mynamar (Burmese) border not so long ago, seems to be a clas between Buddism and Islam, there are rather a lot of them west of Bruma as well.

Compromise is not a well understood word for some.

[SteeleJoe]

@steelejoe,

Are Muslims not allowed to have their own schools if they give the same subjects and live up to the same standards as normal schools ? If not i can understand part of their frustration not that it is worth bombing and killing over. I am however not a believer in strict Muslim (or any other religion) schools (when they promote intollerance).

I am an Athiest, I come from a family of Christians. My family resent my decision to be Atheist. The reason I grew up Atheist, was because I had friends of various religions, and felt upset that I would be forced to disassociate with them simply due to a conflict in beliefs. If I have no beliefs, then I can have friends in ANY religion - except for Islam. In Islam, I am still a Kaffir, for I am a non-believer.

In the Koran, I would be given the choice to convert. If I refuse, I would be killed. No other religion I have ever encountered has written within its' pages a clear path on how to convert or cleanse by force. Only Islam.

Is this what you would deem "moderate"? Teaching children that they must swear by all words of the holy book, including to convert or kill, is moderate and acceptable for you? It is something I could never have my children learning.

I am somewhat mystified at your tolerance for the faith of everyone but Muslims - to the extent that you can have friends only with people who aren't Muslim - as I find the Christian position only marginally (though significantly) more acceptable: my wife and children, as well as hundreds of millions of people around the world - no matter how good and decent or what they do for the betterment of their community or the world - are all condemned to an eternity of agony and suffering.

However, in day to day reality, that makes no more difference in my interaction with Christians than the teachings of the Koran do with my very amicable daily interaction with Muslims.

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I think what drives the intolerance of the Muslim religion is there tendency to use violence and terrorism to promote their religion. Certainly in the past, the Christians have been guilty of the same, but that is sometime in the past and no longer prevalent. It is hard to be tolerant of a religion that promotes the slaughter of innocents simply because of their religious views. Not that mystifying.

Suggestion:

1) Read the post I was replying to.

2) Read my post again.

3) Post something that actually is relevant to what you have quoted from me.

Or don't do any of that but I personally would prefer that you don't quote me if you are going to ignore context and disregard my point.

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[Pimay1]

I am somewhat mystified at your tolerance for the faith of everyone but Muslims - to the extent that you can have friends only with people who aren't Muslim - as I find the Christian position only marginally (though significantly) more acceptable: my wife and children, as well as hundreds of millions of people around the world - no matter how good and decent or what they do for the betterment of their community or the world - are all condemned to an eternity of agony and suffering.

However, in day to day reality, that makes no more difference in my interaction with Christians than the teachings of the Koran do with my very amicable daily interaction with Muslims.

My standpoint exists, because no other religion openly records within its pages that one must choose to convert or pass into the afterlife. No other religion converts by force. We can look at the Crusades, which were a response to years of Muslim aggression on Christian holy lands. But neither of these are relevant. The three states are not holy lands and Thais for the most part are not Christian. This is Islam fighting a war against a war against Buddhism here in Thailand, a war against Hinduism in India, a war against Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism in China, a war against Christians in Iraq, which has now led to a war of Muslims against each other.

Please state a single religion of which the teachings specifically encourage such open aggression against every other religion and I will stand silent.

Why am I supposed to support a position I have not put forth as being my own?

Why would I care if you stand silent or not?

But carry on ignoring what I actually did post and posting self-righteous non sequiturs in response if it pleases you.

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You guys are quite amusing in your posts. Both self proclaimed athiests but you are beginning to sound like two preachers of different religions trying to convince the other one you are right. Happy New Year.

[oldsailor35]

Every country is at war against something.

U.S has a drug war on its doorstep that's being swept away as a Mexican problem.

This is no different.

Absolutly rubbish ! This problem is all part of the stated intention of Islam taking over the world ! Wherever there are Muslims you will find conflict of some kind or another. It has no correlation with the Mexican drug lords whatsoever.