Thai Foreign Minister Expresses Concern Over I C J Verdict: Preah Viharn

[geriatrickid]

i have no love for the red fascists either. The reds and the yellows both represent the worst in politics; intolerance, violence and contempt for any view that does not represent their world view.

Odd. Most of the UDD bashers call the reds commies, socialists, leftists etc.

[tragickingdom]

Yes Surapong is from the elite. The elite never accepts the ruling of a court, just like Surapong does not like it when news people including the yellow shits puppets of the Nation does report about the slaughter in the South. If you do not talk about it, it is not happening is his slogan.

It is about time that the ruling class from whichever color set a decent example and accepts rulings that go against them.

[Thai at Heart]

i have no love for the red fascists either. The reds and the yellows both represent the worst in politics; intolerance, violence and contempt for any view that does not represent their world view.

Odd. Most of the UDD bashers call the reds commies, socialists, leftists etc.

Well, when classifying this type of thing they are meant to have some ideology. Unfortunately, the reds don't really fit because it comes into accusations of issues that can't be discussed.

Very clever from the yellows, they have painted the reds into being something that they probably aren't.

[Bluespunk]

i have no love for the red fascists either. The reds and the yellows both represent the worst in politics; intolerance, violence and contempt for any view that does not represent their world view.

Odd. Most of the UDD bashers call the reds commies, socialists, leftists etc.

i don't. fascism as it emerged in germany through the nazi party claimed to represent the workers, it had right and left wing factions. in reality it cared for nothing but the lunatic whims of it's leader.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Bluespunk

[rubl]

What happened? Only two weeks ago we still had

"Of course, at the moment, there is a sense of deja-vu among the Thai top leaders that the relatively calm situation along the Thai-Cambodian border and the camaraderie-ties between Prime Minister Hun Sen and de facto Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra would positively influence the outcome of the International Court of Justice hearing in The Hague."

http://www.thaivisa....tested-in-2013/

[Thai at Heart]

What happened? Only two weeks ago we still had

"Of course, at the moment, there is a sense of deja-vu among the Thai top leaders that the relatively calm situation along the Thai-Cambodian border and the camaraderie-ties between Prime Minister Hun Sen and de facto Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra would positively influence the outcome of the International Court of Justice hearing in The Hague."

http://www.thaivisa....tested-in-2013/

Trying to pop the PADs balloon before it floats, whilst knowing that the ICJ will judge in Cambodia favour.

[anon467367354]

I wonder if they could share the temple as a demonstration of good faith and an example to the world how two countries can get along.

[Thai at Heart]

I wonder if they could share the temple as a demonstration of good faith and an example to the world how two countries can get along.

Yes and snow fell today in bangkok.....

[whybother]

I wonder if they could share the temple as a demonstration of good faith and an example to the world how two countries can get along.

Yes and snow fell today in bangkok.....

It's been colder, but I didn't think it was that cold.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[Thai at Heart]

I wonder if they could share the temple as a demonstration of good faith and an example to the world how two countries can get along.

Yes and snow fell today in bangkok.....

It's been colder, but I didn't think it was that cold.

Sent from my HTC phone.

Well, a convivial sharing of a few rai (how many is it actually) is never going to happen.....

there is an irrational hatred of losing a centimetre to Cambodia, irrespective of any judgement. expect protests asap.

[Thait Spot]

It is absolute madness to accuse Thaksin of being the cause of this dispute. Abhisit and his crew misjudged the boldness of the PAD nationalists that sought to provoke Cambodia. I suggest that what he thought would be nice rallying point for the nation to get behind his unpopular government, quickly got away from him. Nothing like a violent confrontation wth a defined enemy to unite the nation. The problem is that the local Thais had no ethnic hatred to their Cambodian brothers and sisters. The Bangkok elite brain trust miscalculated.

I see the red underpants brigade has conveniently forgotten how relations between the Thaksin government and Cambodia were so good the Thai embassy was incinerated

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[bigbamboo]

The red and yellow activists are the problem not the people who are lead through the nose by them.

Of course without the absent dictator neither would exist and Thailand would be the peaceful country it sometimes was.

[khunken]

I'm sure the red shirts could organise a 'little' bit of intimidation outside the ICJ court if a benefactor stumped up some money.

[indyuk]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

This issue was resolved by the ICJ more than 50 years ago. Thailand had 50 years to appeal the verdict yet as far as I can see Thailand never filed an appeal. Thailand respects the law. If a plaintiff misses a sunset date for appeal it's usually over. Thailand is privileged in having a late appeal accepted after sunset. If the verdict goes with Thailand she will be most fortunate. After all everybody knows that successive Thai governments ignored the appeal until World Heritage Status was awarded to the Prear Virhear Temple. Then what of the other two temple sites on the Thai Kamer Border? Lets make peace not war.

[Thai at Heart]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

This issue was resolved by the ICJ more than 50 years ago. Thailand had 50 years to appeal the verdict yet as far as I can see Thailand never filed an appeal. Thailand respects the law. If a plaintiff misses a sunset date for appeal it's usually over. Thailand is privileged in having a late appeal accepted after sunset. If the verdict goes with Thailand she will be most fortunate. After all everybody knows that successive Thai governments ignored the appeal until World Heritage Status was awarded to the Prear Virhear Temple. Then what of the other two temple sites on the Thai Kamer Border? Lets make peace not war.

considering that the original map God knows how many years ago was approved by the highest authority, its a wonder that challenging it, isn't lese majeste.

There is a reason Thailand accepted this map at that time.

[unanimosity]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Didn't the Khmers build the temples at Ayutthaya to? That's a fair chunk of land to give away because "it's theirs".

The main reason that the Thais have an issue with the temple, is because, as per treaties with the French when they controlled Cambodia, the temple is on Thai soil. The treaties used the watershed as the border, but for some reason some maps that were produced move off the watershed around the temple.

The courts ruled that the temple belongs to Cambodia, which Thailand has accepted, but the court didn't rule on the land around it. Thailand won't just give their land away.

What would you do if your neighbour built a fence in the process taking some of your property?

Well, for starters, if he didn't want to buy an easement for six figures, thank him for the nice fence and then store trash and garbage on his side but on my land and threaten him with a law suit if he tries to move or destroy my new fence.

[whybother]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

This issue was resolved by the ICJ more than 50 years ago. Thailand had 50 years to appeal the verdict yet as far as I can see Thailand never filed an appeal. Thailand respects the law. If a plaintiff misses a sunset date for appeal it's usually over. Thailand is privileged in having a late appeal accepted after sunset. If the verdict goes with Thailand she will be most fortunate. After all everybody knows that successive Thai governments ignored the appeal until World Heritage Status was awarded to the Prear Virhear Temple. Then what of the other two temple sites on the Thai Kamer Border? Lets make peace not war.

This case wasn't brought to ICJ by Thailand, but by Cambodia.

On 28 April 2011 Cambodia submitted to the Court a request for interpretation of the sentence that gave the sovereignty of the millennial temple on 15 June 1962 to Cambodia, but let surrounding land to be discussed by both countries in a bilateral dialog.

http://asiancorrespo...-vihear-temple/

Cambodia's 2011 request to the ICJ: http://www.icj-cij.o...s/151/17196.pdf

1962 Judgement: http://www.icj-cij.o...s/151/17196.pdf

Edited January 2, 2013 by whybother

[FarangTalk]

The Hindu Khmer temple of Preah Vihear is on the Cambodian immigration card. It is iconic to the Khmer people and a National symbol of Cambodia.

The Thais have a long history of trying to claim Cambodian land, often with the use of force, as was seen in 1941 when the fascist dictator Phibun invaded Cambodia (then Indo-China) while France was engaged in fighting WWII.

Victory Monument in Bangkok celebrated this 'achievement' which was short lived as Thailand was forced to hand back all the land when they ended up on the losing side of WWII.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

[whybother]

The Hindu Khmer temple of Preah Vihear is on the Cambodian immigration card. It is iconic to the Khmer people and a National symbol of Cambodia.

The Thais have a long history of trying to claim Cambodian land, often with the use of force, as was seen in 1941 when the fascist dictator Phibun invaded Cambodia (then Indo-China) while France was engaged in fighting WWII.

Victory Monument in Bangkok celebrated this 'achievement' which was short lived as Thailand was forced to hand back all the land when they ended up on the losing side of WWII.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

Are you sure it's not Angkor Wat on the immigration card?

[Arkady]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Didn't the Khmers build the temples at Ayutthaya to? That's a fair chunk of land to give away because "it's theirs".

The main reason that the Thais have an issue with the temple, is because, as per treaties with the French when they controlled Cambodia, the temple is on Thai soil. The treaties used the watershed as the border, but for some reason some maps that were produced move off the watershed around the temple.

The courts ruled that the temple belongs to Cambodia, which Thailand has accepted, but the court didn't rule on the land around it. Thailand won't just give their land away.

What would you do if your neighbour built a fence in the process taking some of your property?

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Didn't the Khmers build the temples at Ayutthaya to? That's a fair chunk of land to give away because "it's theirs".

The main reason that the Thais have an issue with the temple, is because, as per treaties with the French when they controlled Cambodia, the temple is on Thai soil. The treaties used the watershed as the border, but for some reason some maps that were produced move off the watershed around the temple.

The courts ruled that the temple belongs to Cambodia, which Thailand has accepted, but the court didn't rule on the land around it. Thailand won't just give their land away.

What would you do if your neighbour built a fence in the process taking some of your property?

That is only partly right. The 1904 treaty between France and Siam did agree in principle that the border would follow the watershed along the Dangrek Mountains but the precise demarcation of the border was left to a French-Siamese Mixed Commission and they did in fact go and survey the border together. Since the Siamese had no expertise in map making, they left that job to the French who produced a map in 1907 showing the temple as being in French territory and presented it to the Siamese government in Bangkok. Receipt of the map was acknowledged by the King to the French minister in Bangkok but no objection was raised by the Siamese regarding the border demarcation. The map was thus added to the treaty as an annex to to show the demarcation of the border that had been agreed by the joint commission.

I haven't looked at the map myself but I assume that the French must have included enough territory around it to make access practical. However, the ICJ for some reason didn't touch on this point in the 1962 judgment. If my guess is correct, it seems likely that the court will now put right its earlier omission and rule that the French showed the surrounding 4 sq km to be in French territory too. If so poor Suraphong's worst fears may be realised and Thai people won't understand the ruling. However, I think the reason that most Thais won't understand it is because they coudn't give a dam_n about it. I have not discussed it with many Thais who even knew which Thai province it adjoins, let alone had any interest in the case. The Thais who actually live there just want stability, so they can benefit from the border trade and the tourists visiting the temple.

[nurofiend]

The average Thai could could give a flying bleep about this temple......For the foreign minister to even suggest otherwise shows the complete disconnect of a Thai politician from the people. Every court decision regarding this temple has been in favor of Cambodia, not really sure why Thailand continues to make a fool of themselves over this issue.

I have been to this temple from the Cambodian side two years ago. The site is certainly scenic but as temples go was a bit weak. Both sides are using this as a wag the dog scenario when it suits them, causing lots of needless deaths on both sides. It makes me sick to watch it. The Khymers built the dam_n temple, it is theirs....Not really sure why Thailand has kicked up such a fuss about the couple square kilometers of land it sits on. They should be far more worried about the thousands of square kilometers of land they have lost in southern Thailand ........

Didn't the Khmers build the temples at Ayutthaya to? That's a fair chunk of land to give away because "it's theirs".

The main reason that the Thais have an issue with the temple, is because, as per treaties with the French when they controlled Cambodia, the temple is on Thai soil. The treaties used the watershed as the border, but for some reason some maps that were produced move off the watershed around the temple.

The courts ruled that the temple belongs to Cambodia, which Thailand has accepted, but the court didn't rule on the land around it. Thailand won't just give their land away.

What would you do if your neighbour built a fence in the process taking some of your property?

That is only partly right. The 1904 treaty between France and Siam did agree in principle that the border would follow the watershed along the Dangrek Mountains but the precise demarcation of the border was left to a French-Siamese Mixed Commission and they did in fact go and survey the border together. Since the Siamese had no expertise in map making, they left that job to the French who produced a map in 1907 showing the temple as being in French territory and presented it to the Siamese government in Bangkok. Receipt of the map was acknowledged by the King to the French minister in Bangkok but no objection was raised by the Siamese regarding the border demarcation. The map was thus added to the treaty as an annex to to show the demarcation of the border that had been agreed by the joint commission.

I haven't looked at the map myself but I assume that the French must have included enough territory around it to make access practical. However, the ICJ for some reason didn't touch on this point in the 1962 judgment. If my guess is correct, it seems likely that the court will now put right its earlier omission and rule that the French showed the surrounding 4 sq km to be in French territory too. If so poor Suraphong's worst fears may be realised and Thai people won't understand the ruling. However, I think the reason that most Thais won't understand it is because they coudn't give a dam_n about it. I have not discussed it with many Thais who even knew which Thai province it adjoins, let alone had any interest in the case. The Thais who actually live there just want stability, so they can benefit from the border trade and the tourists visiting the temple.

The Thais who actually live there just want stability, so they can benefit from the border trade and the tourists visiting the temple.

of course they do, it's only the deeply nationalist and fascist PAD who seem to have the big problem with it.

[nurofiend]

i have no love for the red fascists either. The reds and the yellows both represent the worst in politics; intolerance, violence and contempt for any view that does not represent their world view.

Odd. Most of the UDD bashers call the reds commies, socialists, leftists etc.

Well, when classifying this type of thing they are meant to have some ideology. Unfortunately, the reds don't really fit because it comes into accusations of issues that can't be discussed.

Very clever from the yellows, they have painted the reds into being something that they probably aren't.

clever from the yellow leaders yes, but the yellow rank and file ate it up hook, line and sinker, so not so clever from them.

[nurofiend]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

and do so overtly...

Thaksin, the OP's Thai Foreign Minister and Thaksin cousin Surapong, Hun Sen

still, looked like abhisit tried to be his mate at least.

trouble is when you're well know to be in bed (with the well opposed and hostile to the issue) PAD leaders and do things like invite them to your home to discuss the preah veah and land dispute issue, it might just cause some hostility and sour relations.

but of course we all know, like everything else, it's all thaksins fault........

interestingly, i do recall posters slating thaksin for his 'friendly looking photos' with hun sen.

Edited January 2, 2013 by nurofiend

[A Member]

Goodness, someone has dared to criticize Thailand. Of course the Thai public will react, well when some politician tells them to

[Halion]

Just more bloody sabre ratteling to give a pretence of nationalism and deflect from more pertinent and serious issues.

These dam politicians continue to play a game of smoke and mirrows with the local population.

Actively taking actions on the restive south would be of far more benifit to Thailand as a nation, however, these clowns lack the reslove ,ability and intelligence to even scratch the surface of a real problem.

Self aggrandizing, self serving and utterly useless. Violent death, destruction and social and social mayhem reign supreme in the southern states and nothing constructive is done by these gallant leaders.

[paymaster]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

Can anyone tell me if there is a connection between big T,as you call him, and Hun Sen in the developement of that tourist island of the Sth coast of Cambodia. Perhaps the financier holds some control over the Cambodian PM enabling a softer approach to the Preah Viharn issue.

Then there is of course the Thai funded highway to the vicinity of the island resort.

[Buchholz]

I'm sure the red shirts could organise a 'little' bit of intimidation outside the ICJ court if a benefactor stumped up some money.

Red Shirt Leader and government employee Dokjik is probably compiling ICJ judges and their families addresses and phone numbers as a pre-emptive precaution.

[Nickymaster]

I like that what the last government did. How about what bigT did to get his buddy Hun Sin to do to cause nothing but trouble for Mark over this bare piece of land. Very interesting that as soon as Yingruck elected most all activities around this temple came to an end and nothing but agreement, on both sides, Big T will sale out Thailand on this deal.

and do so overtly...

Thaksin, the OP's Thai Foreign Minister and Thaksin cousin Surapong, Hun Sen

still, looked like abhisit tried to be his mate at least.

trouble is when you're well know to be in bed (with the well opposed and hostile to the issue) PAD leaders and do things like invite them to your home to discuss the preah veah and land dispute issue, it might just cause some hostility and sour relations.

but of course we all know, like everything else, it's all thaksins fault........

interestingly, i do recall posters slating thaksin for his 'friendly looking photos' with hun sen.

The pictures show very different situations. Thaksin and Surapong met Hun Sen for personal gains. AV met Hun Sen for diplomatic reasons.

(I like how excited the girl in the back gets when she sees 2 of Asia's largest violators of human rights shake hands)

[bigbamboo]

I wonder if they could share the temple as a demonstration of good faith and an example to the world how two countries can get along.

What you mean like locals did before it became a world heritage site?

[Arkady]

The Hindu Khmer temple of Preah Vihear is on the Cambodian immigration card. It is iconic to the Khmer people and a National symbol of Cambodia.

The Thais have a long history of trying to claim Cambodian land, often with the use of force, as was seen in 1941 when the fascist dictator Phibun invaded Cambodia (then Indo-China) while France was engaged in fighting WWII.

Victory Monument in Bangkok celebrated this 'achievement' which was short lived as Thailand was forced to hand back all the land when they ended up on the losing side of WWII.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

The Hindu Khmer temple of Preah Vihear is on the Cambodian immigration card. It is iconic to the Khmer people and a National symbol of Cambodia.

The Thais have a long history of trying to claim Cambodian land, often with the use of force, as was seen in 1941 when the fascist dictator Phibun invaded Cambodia (then Indo-China) while France was engaged in fighting WWII.

Victory Monument in Bangkok celebrated this 'achievement' which was short lived as Thailand was forced to hand back all the land when they ended up on the losing side of WWII.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

I don't think many Bangkok Thais are aware of what Victory Monument commemorates. It is an inconvenient episode of history that has been wiped from the school text books like Thailand's collaboration with Japan in the Second World War, the 1976 Thammasat Uni massacre and many other embarrassing events. Actually the Franco-Thai War of 1941 ended in a draw, not a real victory for Thailand. The Thai army and air force did overwhelm the thinly stretched and under supplied Vichy French colonial troops to the North but the French Navy won a decisive victory in the naval battle of Koh Chang in the South. The war would have continued and the Thai position would have deteriorated, if the Japs had not forced the French to conceed Battambang province and the adjoining territories to Thailand.

Another little studied feature of Thailand's participation in the Second World War is that, in exchange for its assistance in the Japanese invasion of Malya, the Japanese allowed Thailand to annex the four Malay states of Kedah, Kelamantan, Tregganu and Perlis were Thai rule was deeply resented and unpopular. They were also allowed to annex the Shan States of Burma.