Any Way For Girlfriend To Stay In Uk Long Term Without Getting Married?

[donprestige]

Hi All,

Been trying to decipher all of the information on the UKBA site and forum stickies but struggling to get a definitive answer to my question. This beng is there any viable way to move my girlfriend of almost 2 years to the UK to live with me without the need get on one knee. I get the feeling the answer is a big fat NO but hoping for some way.

A bit of background to assist....

We've been togther since March 2011 and since then I've visited 7 times and she has been to the UK on a Visit Visa. I'm 28 and while I'm happy with the relationship and its progress I have timetable in mind for stuff like kids and marriage which would be atleast 2-3 years from now as my current focus is on my career and it gaining some stability as I have worked in quite a few locations in the last 4 years and am finally settled back in London. Fortunately, I have a well paid job which is multiples of this 19K figure I keep seeing mentined for settlement visas so while here she nor I would need recourse to public funds. However, I believe that as we have not lived together for 2 years unmarried partners visa is not possible. As a lot of people struggle with we're at that stage where we want to make the next great leap by moving in together but the distance makes it impossble.

We've had a few considerations. First I considered a move to Asia as it would be much easier for me to work over there than for her to secure employment in Europe. However, Bangkok is extremely difficult to enter as the employment laws are quite protectionist. Hong Kong, Singpore, Malaysia and Indonesia are options but its quite a drastic move for us to both attempt moves outside our own countries for a couple of years to tick a box and she works in fashion which is notoriously hard to get in to, let alone move to markets where there is no industry. Also roles in those areas are requirning Mandarin or local language skills to a greeater degree now. We have considered continuing with Visit Visas route until we are ready to marry but as she has a mortgage for her house in Bangkok, car and dog its not really feasible or fair to expect her to continually take 6 months out of every year staying in the UK while maintaining her property, etc in Thailand. And renting out a 3 bedroom house for short stints would be very unlikely to happen. We have been thinking that if she came to the UK for one of the 11 month English Language courses this would in effect kill a few birds with one stone by improving her english skills in general, a first step in getting ready for requirements of future visa language requirements and allows us to live together for a sustained period of time. Once gain its not really long enough to avoid the issues from the last idea. Having a 10 month lease on a 3 bedroom family home isn't attractive to renters. However, selling up and packing in your life for 11 months with no security beyond that isn't really fair or viable. Only alternative outside that is to for her to apply as an entrepreneur but I would prefer her to first swat up on her english for a year and it would also require her selling up over in Thailand first to ensure she would have enough funds in her bank account for the visa which require funding of 50K amongst other things but no guarantee that it would be approved.

Any ideas would be great or even better a difinitive answer

Thanks

[Hawkinschris]

Sorry, but it's a NO unless you get married!

If there were, I am sure a lot of people on here would have done this!

I also believe that you must have lived together for 4 years to qualify for an unmarried partners visa (i might be wrong)

Edited January 8, 2013 by Hawkinschris

[liveforever]

i think the only option would be the fiance visa, but there are people who more about that than me.

kind regards

[Hawkinschris]

i think the only option would be the fiance visa, but there are people who more about that than me.

kind regards

Fiance Visa is only valid for 6 months

[MAJIC]

The main way of having your GF stay with you the longest term possible seems to be,to apply for a Settlement Visa.(2 years and 3 months from issue)

I am enclosing a link to the Settlement Visa Application form SET M ,if you go to page 6 you will see the following details:

1. SPOUSE

2. CIVIL PARTNER

3. UNMARRIED PARTNER

4. SAME SEX PARTNER

Which indicates the form SET M covers any of the 4 Applicants Partnership Status.

The main criteria seems to be the length of the relationship, and if it can be proven to be genuine.

A brief phone call to the UK BA to confirm this would be advisable,as I could be wrong, and this Visa may not be the most suitable for you and your particular circumstances?

http://www.ukba.home...setm0420091.pdf

Good Luck

Edited January 8, 2013 by MAJIC

[7by7]

To qualify as unmarried partners you would need to have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the previous two years.

From UK Settlement Visa Basics.

Unmarried and same sex partners.

Unmarried partners are male and female, same sex partners are, well the same sex!

To qualify for this the couple need to show that they have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years. Short periods apart are acceptable, but one partner living in Thailand and the other in the UK and just visiting regularly would not be.

Like a spouse and civil partner’s visa, it is valid for 33 months and after 30 months in the UK the Thai partner applies for a 30 month extension and after this they can apply for ILR.

Majic, form SET(M) is to apply for ILR. She cannot apply for ILR until she has lived in the UK for the requisite time.

If she did come to the UK as a student then Tier 4 visas can be converted to settlement in the UK, but student visitor visas cannot. But to do so as unmarried partners you would still need to meet the two years living together requirement.

But if she doesn't want to spend lengthy periods in the UK as a visitor due to her property etc.; surely this would apply to studying in the UK as well?

[donprestige]

Thanks all for attempting to help.

7x7, you are right that the stumbling block for the Settlement Visas for Unmarried Partners is this requirement of at least 2 years living together.We're in a catch 22 situation whereby she can't move over without us living together for 2 years, yet we can't live together as she can't come over for 2 years. And while I can possibly get job in parts of S.E. Asia (albeit much more difficult now), Thailand is one of the least likely and no guarantee she would be able to follow elsewhere.

And yes, the same applies to studying. However, its the only route we can think of which will allow us to live together for any real leghth of time and it has the added benefit of her advancing her English Language skills which aside from helping in case we settle long term in the UK is also good for her future career prospects particularly with the roll out of the ASEAN free trade agreements later this year.

But once again, selling up for 11 months just to have to return and start up again is too much to ask of her really given the risk she'd be taking especially as it would not help towards any future Settlement Visa application. This would be the case still even if we were extremely fortunate to somehow obtain, a prospective student visa, student visa and then visit visa back to back to back. It would not meet the 2 year hurdle.

I understand that its difficult to create a system flexible enough to cover every circumstance but if people have the finances and can prove the genuine relationship you would think there would be a way to arrange a temporary stay of 2 years for propsed spouses. We've both got full time jobs but have managed to still som ehow spend in the region of 5 months together out of the last 21 months. Pretty good going and you think it would count for something.

I've sent an email to UKBA via Thailand VFS Helpline address. Guess we will have to see what they come back with.

[donprestige]

And just to add, rushing in to marriage to clear the hurdles is not an option for me although I'm sure my girlfriendwould be well up for that.

I prefer the more steady careful approach to courting. The high divorce rates out there scare me. I want her to have as long as possible to realise I'm not as perfect she thinks I am

[7by7]

I agree that you should definitely not get married just so she can get a visa; only get married because you are both sure that you want it and want to spend the rest of your lives together.

Whilst I agree that the rules can be frustrating for a couple in your position, they are there for a purpose.

The government, through the UKBA, wants to ensure as much as possible that those coming to live in the UK are doing so for a genuine reason. In the case of relationships they want to ensure, as much as possible, that the relationship is genuine and will last.

Hence the requirement for the couple to be married or in a civil partnership or if they are not to have been living together for at least 2 years.

Fiances and prospective civil partners only get a 6 month visa, during which time they have to marry or register their civil partnership and apply again.

These rules have been tightened up over the years due to abuses of the system; the latest change being the increasing of the qualifying period for Indefinite Leave to Remain for partners from 2 years to 5.

None of which helps you, of course.

What I can say is that from my own and others experiences I can assure you that, though sometimes difficult, long distance relationships can work; especially if you are able to visit each other.

So all I can suggest is that you follow that course until you both feel ready to marry.

[Waterloo]

Hi Don

I meet my Wife just over 6 years ago whilst she was a student here in the UK and prior to us marrying we did extend her student visa once.

The advice we were given at the time was that when applying for back to back student visa’s was that UKBA would expect to see progression in the level of educational achievement from one visa to the next.

They obviously want to satisfy themselves that your girlfriend is genuinely studying & attaining qualifications to a sufficient level & not just using this as a device to stay in the country.

With the current focus on bogus colleges I can only imagine they have got even stricter on this matter & from personal experience there was a lot of abuse going on.

Also before considering this option further I would advise checking the costs, my Wife spent a considerable amount of money on her tuition fees alone, and this is not likely to be cheap.

On the plus side unlike most people on here we were very lucky to have the luxury of being able to live together for 2 years prior to getting married.

I also personally know of 3 other couples with very similar stories all of whom are still happily married.

I hope this is of help to you.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Waterloo

[Waterloo]

one other thought all the couples I know started there relationships after they entered the country, not sure how the fact you are in an existing relationship will play out with UKBA

[MAJIC]

To qualify as unmarried partners you would need to have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the previous two years.

From UK Settlement Visa Basics.

Unmarried and same sex partners.

Unmarried partners are male and female, same sex partners are, well the same sex!

To qualify for this the couple need to show that they have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years. Short periods apart are acceptable, but one partner living in Thailand and the other in the UK and just visiting regularly would not be.

Like a spouse and civil partner’s visa, it is valid for 33 months and after 30 months in the UK the Thai partner applies for a 30 month extension and after this they can apply for ILR.

Majic, form SET(M) is to apply for ILR. She cannot apply for ILR until she has lived in the UK for the requisite time.

If she did come to the UK as a student then Tier 4 visas can be converted to settlement in the UK, but student visitor visas cannot. But to do so as unmarried partners you would still need to meet the two years living together requirement.

But if she doesn't want to spend lengthy periods in the UK as a visitor due to her property etc.; surely this would apply to studying in the UK as well?

Yes you are right,my mistake for mixing up the Settlement Visa with ILR.

[donprestige]

Hi Don

I meet my Wife just over 6 years ago whilst she was a student here in the UK and prior to us marrying we did extend her student visa once.

The advice we were given at the time was that when applying for back to back student visa’s was that UKBA would expect to see progression in the level of educational achievement from one visa to the next.

They obviously want to satisfy themselves that your girlfriend is genuinely studying & attaining qualifications to a sufficient level & not just using this as a device to stay in the country.

With the current focus on bogus colleges I can only imagine they have got even stricter on this matter & from personal experience there was a lot of abuse going on.

Also before considering this option further I would advise checking the costs, my Wife spent a considerable amount of money on her tuition fees alone, and this is not likely to be cheap.

On the plus side unlike most people on here we were very lucky to have the luxury of being able to live together for 2 years prior to getting married.

I also personally know of 3 other couples with very similar stories all of whom are still happily married.

I hope this is of help to you.

Thanks Waterloo.

This is something we have been discussing a lot more recently. Its about finding the right course at an ok price. Taking a few years out of her career wont be ideal either partcualry as she's in her early 30's but this is a route that we are discussing if it adds more to her prospects. We're happy but if things ever did go South or something happened to me wouldn't want her to have given up her life and independence.

[Equalizer]

Seems to me you are well enough off to pay the mortgage here and let it sit vacant, what’s her mortgage? 300 quid a month!! It is brick and mortar so the money is going nowhere. Besides you need to understand that you also will need to find out she is also not perfect "no one is perfect" and 5 months together will not cut it. The dog and car is a no brainer as you are telling us 11 months in the UK so these will probably need to go anyway. I say get her the tourist visa, have 6 months to a year together, see if she likes the UK long term. See if you can deal with the fact that no matter how much English she learns you are years and years away from any kind of intellectual conversation. When you are content and ready to marry then you will also be ready to have a child together, if you have a child first there are other avenues you can take without marriage to secure her residence. She will be happy in the knowledge her house is still there for her if the ---- hits the fan.

[7by7]

I say get her the tourist visa, have 6 months to a year together

The maximum time a tourist can spend in the UK is 6 months.

if you have a child first there are other avenues you can take without marriage to secure her residence

I can only think of two;

1. The Zambrano ruling. But the OP and his girlfriend would have to be separated with the child in the care of the mother and the OP taking no interest in the support and upbringing of the child.
   
2. An access to child visa. But for this they, again, would have to be separated, this time with the child in the custody of the OP.
   

Not really what they are looking for, I suspect.

[Equalizer]

I say get her the tourist visa, have 6 months to a year together

The maximum time a tourist can spend in the UK is 6 months.

if you have a child first there are other avenues you can take without marriage to secure her residence

I can only think of two;

1. The Zambrano ruling. But the OP and his girlfriend would have to be separated with the child in the care of the mother and the OP taking no interest in the support and upbringing of the child.
   
2. An access to child visa. But for this they, again, would have to be separated, this time with the child in the custody of the OP.
   

Not really what they are looking for, I suspect.

When i said 6 months to a year together i meant two visits. When i siad other options you have mentioned two already.

[beano2274]

I say get her the tourist visa, have 6 months to a year together

The maximum time a tourist can spend in the UK is 6 months.

if you have a child first there are other avenues you can take without marriage to secure her residence

I can only think of two;

1. The Zambrano ruling. But the OP and his girlfriend would have to be separated with the child in the care of the mother and the OP taking no interest in the support and upbringing of the child.
   
2. An access to child visa. But for this they, again, would have to be separated, this time with the child in the custody of the OP.
   

Not really what they are looking for, I suspect.

When i said 6 months to a year together i meant two visits. When i siad other options you have mentioned two already.

she can only visit for 6 months in a period of 12 months, so in reality she could go there in Jan to July ( 6 months), then back to Thailand for 6 months, then back to the UK for a further 6 months

[7by7]

^^^^^^^

Indeed. In order to spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK a general or family visitor would need to show an acceptable reason for needing to do so. A desire to be in the UK with her boyfriend would not be considered such.

When i siad other options you have mentioned two already.

As far as I am aware, the only two.

What other options do you think having a child together would give her?

[Waterloo]

Hi Don

I meet my Wife just over 6 years ago whilst she was a student here in the UK and prior to us marrying we did extend her student visa once.

The advice we were given at the time was that when applying for back to back student visa’s was that UKBA would expect to see progression in the level of educational achievement from one visa to the next.

They obviously want to satisfy themselves that your girlfriend is genuinely studying & attaining qualifications to a sufficient level & not just using this as a device to stay in the country.

With the current focus on bogus colleges I can only imagine they have got even stricter on this matter & from personal experience there was a lot of abuse going on.

Also before considering this option further I would advise checking the costs, my Wife spent a considerable amount of money on her tuition fees alone, and this is not likely to be cheap.

On the plus side unlike most people on here we were very lucky to have the luxury of being able to live together for 2 years prior to getting married.

I also personally know of 3 other couples with very similar stories all of whom are still happily married.

I hope this is of help to you.

Thanks Waterloo.

This is something we have been discussing a lot more recently. Its about finding the right course at an ok price. Taking a few years out of her career wont be ideal either partcualry as she's in her early 30's but this is a route that we are discussing if it adds more to her prospects. We're happy but if things ever did go South or something happened to me wouldn't want her to have given up her life and independence.

Hi Don

My wife was 31 when she started studying here, she had had some major life changing events & sold her buisness to pay for her studies, she still has property back home.

In your earlier post you give the impression that if things go well you hope to try for children with your young lady following marriage.

My Wife believes Thai women hit the meneopause earlier than western women, I have no idea if she is right but I believe you are on a bit of a deadline with nature versus your hopes.

My wife came here to study & we became involved afterwards, but 2 back to back student visa's allowed us the following timetable.

2 years living together before a church wedding which we were able to plan without the 6 month constraints of a fiance visa.

2 years of marriage together before our little boy arrived, we now have a little 5 month old girl as well.

As both our children were born here they have full dual citizenship & will be able to pass there UK citizenship on to there own children should they have any.

I note like myself you work in London & that your girlfreind works in the fashion industry, how about a fashion course or a buisness/fashion courses, I'm sure you are aware of londons reputation for fashion these days.

Depending on her current level of english & existing education how about something like a btec or a hnc each would easily cover a 2 year course of study & being modular if things did not work out she could still get something out of it without completeing the full course.

[donprestige]

Seems to me you are well enough off to pay the mortgage here and let it sit vacant, what’s her mortgage? 300 quid a month!! It is brick and mortar so the money is going nowhere. Besides you need to understand that you also will need to find out she is also not perfect "no one is perfect" and 5 months together will not cut it. The dog and car is a no brainer as you are telling us 11 months in the UK so these will probably need to go anyway. I say get her the tourist visa, have 6 months to a year together, see if she likes the UK long term. See if you can deal with the fact that no matter how much English she learns you are years and years away from any kind of intellectual conversation. When you are content and ready to marry then you will also be ready to have a child together, if you have a child first there are other avenues you can take without marriage to secure her residence. She will be happy in the knowledge her house is still there for her if the ---- hits the fan.

I wish Equaliser, her mortagage is almost 3 times that so not too cheap. However, its more the waste of money that would be the result of leaving it empty which I would want to avoid. We have intellectual conversations now as her spoken english is fairly good, studying further would greatly improve this but my concern/focus is much more on the reading/writing skills. Once again I'm no where near ready for kids so that wouldn't be a route I would be looking at.

Hi Don

I meet my Wife just over 6 years ago whilst she was a student here in the UK and prior to us marrying we did extend her student visa once.

The advice we were given at the time was that when applying for back to back student visa’s was that UKBA would expect to see progression in the level of educational achievement from one visa to the next.

They obviously want to satisfy themselves that your girlfriend is genuinely studying & attaining qualifications to a sufficient level & not just using this as a device to stay in the country.

With the current focus on bogus colleges I can only imagine they have got even stricter on this matter & from personal experience there was a lot of abuse going on.

Also before considering this option further I would advise checking the costs, my Wife spent a considerable amount of money on her tuition fees alone, and this is not likely to be cheap.

On the plus side unlike most people on here we were very lucky to have the luxury of being able to live together for 2 years prior to getting married.

I also personally know of 3 other couples with very similar stories all of whom are still happily married.

I hope this is of help to you.

Thanks Waterloo.

This is something we have been discussing a lot more recently. Its about finding the right course at an ok price. Taking a few years out of her career wont be ideal either partcualry as she's in her early 30's but this is a route that we are discussing if it adds more to her prospects. We're happy but if things ever did go South or something happened to me wouldn't want her to have given up her life and independence.

Hi Don

My wife was 31 when she started studying here, she had had some major life changing events & sold her buisness to pay for her studies, she still has property back home.

In your earlier post you give the impression that if things go well you hope to try for children with your young lady following marriage.

My Wife believes Thai women hit the meneopause earlier than western women, I have no idea if she is right but I believe you are on a bit of a deadline with nature versus your hopes.

My wife came here to study & we became involved afterwards, but 2 back to back student visa's allowed us the following timetable.

2 years living together before a church wedding which we were able to plan without the 6 month constraints of a fiance visa.

2 years of marriage together before our little boy arrived, we now have a little 5 month old girl as well.

As both our children were born here they have full dual citizenship & will be able to pass there UK citizenship on to there own children should they have any.

I note like myself you work in London & that your girlfreind works in the fashion industry, how about a fashion course or a buisness/fashion courses, I'm sure you are aware of londons reputation for fashion these days.

Depending on her current level of english & existing education how about something like a btec or a hnc each would easily cover a 2 year course of study & being modular if things did not work out she could still get something out of it without completeing the full course.

Thanks Waterloo, nice to know things worked out well for you as gives some hope

This is what we have been considering ourselves, we just need to research more and find the right course I guess. Also with the differences that there are with student visa vs Tier 4 visa it makes it a little harder to judge the best route. Under a student visa you can only get an 11 month visa if studying an English Language course. However, the Tier 4 visa which allows someone to study for greater than 12 months usually has higher entry requirements for courses. My girlfriend didn't finish the standard Thai Educational system as she had to leave school to take care of the guardian who brought her up. She instead went a more vocational route by studying at one of the top hair and make up academies which worked out quite well for her and landed her a good job in Thai TV. But her qualifications are now not as Internationally transferable as we would like.

And as you mentioned, London is one of the major Global Fashion Hubs which brings greater competition for jobs but also places on courses. The London Fashion Schools are oversubscribed on courses where tuition is 15-20K a year. However, I think because I have a degree I've been overly focused on getting her the same. I haven't really looked at HND/Btec quailifications. This is something I will look in to further as it will probably prove to be a more fruitfal and more suitable for what she needs

[RAZZELL]

One of you is going to have to sacrifice something

Get your gf an education visa and get her to the UK for two years..then you could get an unmarried partner visa.

On an education visa she could work 10-20 hours a week term-time, more in the holidays, which would help pay her mortgage if she doesn't rent her property out.

RAZZ

[7by7]

Remember that to get a Tier 4 student visa she will need at least 40 points.

Can you Apply?

As a Tier 4 (General) student, you must have 40 points in our points assessment. You can score:

• 30 points for having a valid confirmation of acceptance for studies, which you get for studying a course at an acceptable level with an approved education provider (also known as a 'Tier 4 sponsor'), and for having acceptable English language skills; and
  
• 10 points for having enough money (also known as maintenance or funds) to cover your course fees and living costs.
  

Although she will be allowed to work once in the UK, she cannot use any potential income from that work to help meet the financial requirement.

Full details of what is required can be found at Adult Students Tier 4 (General) and the links from there.

[Waterloo]

Good luck and do let us know how it turns out visa wise

[Grantcr]

I am very interested to hear about your progress too as I am in a very similar position to you.

[Grantcr]

Hi guys,

I have been working on converting the list of registered Tier 4 schools into an excel spreadsheet so I can filter the schools. I have taken the source information from:

http://www.ukba.home...onsorseducation

At the time I made the list only the 24th January 2013 list was available, however there is now a 1st February 2013 list out. Hopefully these lists won't differ much (they both have the same amount of schools).

I have attached the original pdf I worked from and the excel spreadsheet I have created. I hope this is useful to someone.

registerofsponsorseducation.pdf

Tier 4 Schools.xls

I created this in Excel 2010, so let me know if you would like a copy in that format too.

I am currently working on getting the postcodes, but only for London schools. I can post this up too when I am done.

Grant