Cars Bring Bangkok To Standstill

[ALFREDO]

I have heard rumours about people who bought on finance having the rebate paid in instalments but everyone i know who has taken advantage of this scheme, has been paid in one lump sum, and they all bought of finance, so i don't know whether it is true...

My GF bought a car in that scheme in her brothers name.

Paid with down payment 30 % and monthly installments. The Tax is paid back after a year, in one sum.

I think, that is the way, how it is done.

[rixalex]

500.000 or 600.000 Baht, for a car, why? You can go a step lower. Why need a Jazz?

Installments started with a first payment of 15 % 60.000 Baht and car prices start with 380.000 - 430.000 Baht for "Eco cars, with small engines"

E-20 Gasoline.

Yes you are right, there are cheaper cars included in the scheme than the Jazz. I merely quoted to Jazz costs by way of an example. The same principle applies to the cheapest March at 380,000. The rebate for that is 64,000. Had the rebate come off the sticker price, that would of made its selling price 316,000, and thereby even more affordable for those on lower incomes.

[rixalex]

I have heard rumours about people who bought on finance having the rebate paid in instalments but everyone i know who has taken advantage of this scheme, has been paid in one lump sum, and they all bought of finance, so i don't know whether it is true...

My GF bought a car in that scheme in her brothers name.

Paid with down payment 30 % and monthly installments. The Tax is paid back after a year, in one sum.

I think, that is the way, how it is done.

Yep that's my understanding.

[rubl]

Data on the effect of 'road space rationing' seems not consistent, but mostly shows a positive effect which can be completely lost in a few years time when the number of cars increases. In Thailand enforcing such a rationing would be interesting to say the least. 'Do you know who I am?'

Wiki has this on Beijing, the last part shows Thailand is not the only country where polls can have predictable results.

"Reception of policies

According to a survey ordered by the officials conducted by a third party institute in 2010, 90.4% of the surveyed people are in favor of end-number license plate policy and would like to continue practicing the policy, but according to a similar survey conducted by Sina.com 82.9% of the interviewed opposed the End-number License Plate Policy, with only 14% in favor, having a 76% difference from the official survey."

http://en.wikipedia....ning_in_Beijing

[Thai at Heart]

The interesting thing is that the dealers don't actually ask if people have a license. To get a gun you need plenty of licenses, but a car none. I wonder what Toyota or Honda head office would make of a press story that they are selling cars to people without licenses and thus void insurance.

Purchasing and owning a car and driving a car has to be the same person, why?

How, rich people make that than, who have chauffeurs-drivers?

I think, a lot of Thai wives and GF's of Falangs and Expats could not purchase a car than with their spouses money!

Most have no driver license!

My GF has none, but a car since 6 years and she never drives herself! So, no problem!

(Ex GF since 10 years and no license!)

My, I think civilized Western country, -Austria-, has no problem with it, when you buy a car and register it in your name.

Regardless if you have a driving license or not!

Must the "Company XXXX Ltd." who buys and registers a car in her name, also drive the car?

Would be impossible anyway!

Regarding insurance, not the owner is insured, but the car and the owner has to take care, that only drivers with a licence use the car!

PS: The 31.12.2012 is the deadline, for the "Tax payback"-after a year, deal, to order a car, as far as I understand.

The possible delivery date of the car, can be late as March 2013!

No new orders for that scheme can be made anymore!

The minimum the Sellers should do is check that the person driving the car from the showroom has a license.

I would wager that a good percentage don't.

[LaoPo]

My, I think civilized Western country, -Austria-, has no problem with it, when you buy a car and register it in your name.

Regardless if you have a driving license or not!

Austria with 8,5 million people cannot be compared with Thailand with 67 million people and a megacity like Bangkok with around 10 million people. .

Vienna (Wien) has a mere 1,7 million people

[ALFREDO]

The minimum the Sellers should do is check that the person driving the car from the showroom has a license.

I would wager that a good percentage don't.

You could be right, about the "good" percentage,

but that is TH, who cares much, the seller, does not want to confront his customer in any way.

I read once, long time, a decade or two ago, in -Readers Digest- about Asia's worst drivers. I forgot which country got the first price,

but, I remember, that it was written, that Indonesia had than, nearly 7 Million registered cars, but only, 2,5 Million drivers licenses issued.

[Breville]

"When is the crackdown on gridlock going to start? There's been so many successful crackdowns on everything else that surely BKK will be gridlock free in 90 days after a crackdown is declared!".........Did you not hear the news ? Takki has sent word from his fortress in exile that there is to be a crackdown on crackdowns. Also he has sent congrats to Yingluck for sorting out this problem of slow moving traffic in Bangkok by actually bringing it to a grinding halt. The next 500,000 cars will be stacked on top of the 7 million parked on the city streets now.

[ALFREDO]

My, I think civilized Western country, -Austria-, has no problem with it, when you buy a car and register it in your name.

Regardless if you have a driving license or not!

Austria with 8,5 million people cannot be compared with Thailand with 67 million people and a megacity like Bangkok with around 10 million people. .

Vienna (Wien) has a mere 1,7 million people

Our logic is a different one.

Regardless how many people a country, or a city has,

that - my quote, was, only about that possibility to register cars, motorbikes ect. in the name of somebody, who has no driver license.

If the law is not enforced, that driving without license is forbidden and brings heavy fines, in US-a big! country, very fast a Prison sentence, at least with a good possibility a night or weekend in prison, (No judge, no bail?!)

You do not need any Law!

Edited January 11, 2013 by ALFREDO

[LaoPo]

My, I think civilized Western country, -Austria-, has no problem with it, when you buy a car and register it in your name.

Regardless if you have a driving license or not!

Austria with 8,5 million people cannot be compared with Thailand with 67 million people and a megacity like Bangkok with around 10 million people. .

Vienna (Wien) has a mere 1,7 million people

Our logic is a different one.

Regardless how many people a country, or a city has,

that - my quote, was, only about that possibility to register cars, motorbikes ect. in the name of somebody, who has no driver license.

If the law is not enforced, that driving without license is forbidden and brings heavy fines, in US-a big! country, very fast a Prison sentence, at least with a good possibility a night or weekend in prison, (No judge, no bail?!)

You do not need any Law!

Register cars/motorized vehicles in someone's name who has NO drivers license is, in itself, a rather weird system and should have a better control.

Why would anyone register a car in her/his name when he/she doesn't drive?

The system is open for criminality.

[ALFREDO]

Register cars/motorized vehicles in someone's name who has NO drivers license is, in itself, a rather weird system and should have a better control.

Why would anyone register a car in her/his name when he/she doesn't drive?

The system is open for criminality.

Please, show me countries, where the law is - "Only allowed to buy a car and register a car in your name when you have driving license."

I am sure, I show you more countries, where that is possible, without any problem!

Thanks.

Regarding your question-

Because,

I have the money - but no interest or fear in driving, never made a license, do not want to make one,

so give the car to somebody who drives it for me,

let him/she drive with it, family member, children, spouse ect. Do not want they own the car!

Most countries, EU-all? have no problem with that decision!

Edited January 11, 2013 by ALFREDO

[rubl]

My, I think civilized Western country, -Austria-, has no problem with it, when you buy a car and register it in your name.

Regardless if you have a driving license or not!

Austria with 8,5 million people cannot be compared with Thailand with 67 million people and a megacity like Bangkok with around 10 million people. .

Vienna (Wien) has a mere 1,7 million people

True, true. With these figures Austria has 20% of its population in Vienna, Thailand 15% in Bangkok. Next we'll check on the China figures

Mind you, a gridlock is a gridlock

[LaoPo]

My, I think civilized Western country, -Austria-, has no problem with it, when you buy a car and register it in your name.

Regardless if you have a driving license or not!

Austria with 8,5 million people cannot be compared with Thailand with 67 million people and a megacity like Bangkok with around 10 million people. .

Vienna (Wien) has a mere 1,7 million people

True, true. With these figures Austria has 20% of its population in Vienna, Thailand 15% in Bangkok. Next we'll check on the China figures

Mind you, a gridlock is a gridlock

If it only was so easy rubl...

There are some 16,7 million vehicles* in Austria (Pop. just 8,5 million).

Do you really think that there are 3,34 million -20%- vehicles in Vienna on a population of 1,7 million?

* http://www.abs.gov.a....nsf/mf/9309.0/

But, I agree, a gridlock is a bloody gridlock

Edited January 11, 2013 by LaoPo

[Curt1591]

Still insist that it isn't the number of cars, but the lack of any intelligent driving.

People stop/park in traffic lanes, block intersections, and drive using two lanes.

They fail to yield to oncoming traffic. Instead, they merge slowly, until cars finally have to stop to avoid hitting them. In the mean time, everyone else swerves around them, into the other traffic lanes.

When a brake light flashes, it's not a signal to slow down, but a signal to switch lanes.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Curt1591

[inquisitive]

Two schools of thought as I see it. Those who think it is a bad idea but have not a clue why and have minimal advanced education and none in any form of formal economics and those who think it is a good idea who have PhD's in economics and many years of experience in Asian economics.

I have explained to you on many occasions, on various threads on this topic, why i think the idea was ill-conceived and badly thought out, and every time i do, you respond with something that complete ignores those issues, and instead you just repeat your mantra: the intention was to sell more cars, more cars have been sold, it worked!, everyone's a winner, case-closed type celebratory proclamations, that would i'm sure make government spokespeople beam with pride.

Anyway, for the last time of repeating, here are a few of my concerns:

1) Small Japanese cars already sell like hot cakes here, and it is quite possible that when looking at the bigger picture in a few years time, the same number of cars will have been sold as would have without the scheme, just that there will be a big spike last year and a dip that begins later on this year when the scheme ends. And for the sake of having that spike, millions of baht in lost tax revenue. Are we really sure these cars didn't already have customers in the wings, that have simply opened their cheque books a few months earlier than they otherwise would have done?

2) Why not help create a new market for an industry that needs help? And if not, if the government is so set on the motoring sector, why not a product that really pushes forward the green issue. For example, rather than setting a maximum limit for engine size at 1.5l, why not set a limit for minimum mpl that helps speed up into the market a new greener product, not the same old products that need no help being sold? Or if the limit is to do with engine size, why not make it a bit more radical - 1.2 or 1.0l for example? Less number of cars sold, perhaps yes, but smaller greener cars that may not have otherwise found custom.

3) By gearing the scheme in such a way that the sticker price remained exactly the same, with money returned after one year, it meant that people who took advantage of the scheme were people who most likely could already afford the purchase. Why not take the money off the sticker price, and allow those who couldn't afford to buy a Jazz at 600k baht, but who could afford to buy a Jazz at 500k, actually buy one? This way you not only open up a new customer base that previously didn't exist, you help poorer people who need help. And no, i'm not talking about encouraging people who can't afford to buy a car, buy one, i am talking about people who can't afford a 600k car but who can afford a 500k car.

4) The stipulation of it being the person's first car was largely a complete waste of time, as it was easily abused simply by putting the car in the name of an old aunt who couldn't drive and had never bought a car.

The scheme should have been restricted in a different way, perhaps in a way that excludes the wealthy and that rewards the working classes. I'm not sure how this could be done, but what i do know is, from many people in my area, the first car stipulation really was a waste of time, and all it has meant is that now thousands of people are driving around in new cars that they are paying for, but that don't belong to them, rather some distant relative.

I don't think the scheme was all bad, and i give the government credit for at the very least, sticking to a pre-election promise, even if the entire premise of the pre-election promise was simply to win votes, but i can see problems and flaws, and i think with a bit more forethought, a much better scheme could have been devised. That's all i'm saying.

1. Would cars have sold without the scheme? Who cares. You'll never prove it one way or the other. Useless to discuss.

2. The green issue is for wackadoodle Western types. This is Asia. Green does not sell in Asia with the exception of Australia and Japan and I'm not really sure about Japan. At any rate no matter how much you jump up and down you will not fit Thailand into an Australian mold.

3. I don't think the rebate is paid 100% after one year.

4. Thais don't care. So why even discuss it. It sounds like a personal problem. Get with the program.

The absolutely only reason I post about this issue at all is to drive home the point that most negative posts here have nothing to do with reality. You make an attempt and I would not classify your post as one of the insulting generalizations meant only to degrade the Thai people and government. Although I really don't see what it has to do with the OP. You seem to want to debate the first buyer incentive program rather than the OP which is “Cars bring Bangkok to a standstill.” The first buyer program is over. What's the point?

It is good to read such a thoughtful discussion, particularly when the writers disagree. Then there's something to be learned, and I thank you both.

1) Meanwhile, I would have to disagree that it is useless to discuss speculation. Frankly, any time we mention what might happen tomorrow, it is ALWAYS speculation. Will the sun come up tomorrow? Speculation. You can be pretty darn sure, but there's always the possibility, no matter how small, that it won't. In fact, you can be just about equally sure that some day it WON't come up. So the bottom line is the belief that ANY program will or would have had a given result is ALWAYS speculative. What's worse, if we're trying to guess whether that result is a "good" one or a "bad" one, we get stopped dead by the fact that there's no way to be sure what would constitute a good or bad result.

So the fact is that dismissing a thoughtful comment on the basis that it is not worth consideration because it is speculative is totally misguided and weak. How else can we learn from the past or choose a course for the future? Trying to PROVE speculation is another matter, but thoughtful discussion is always warranted.

2) The advertisers in Thailand clearly do not agree with you on the notion that "green" is not a selling point. Look around, my friend, and see what the professionals are promoting. They're doing it for a reason, and usually that reason is that they believe it will make them money. Hey, they could all be wrong, but your belief that "green" would not be a selling point is purely speculation.

4) You stated that the rebate program is over, but isn't it in the OP that it's been extended until March? Or did I get that wrong?

So I don't agree with all you've written but I still say it's a pleasure to see the rhetoric in the above exchange seems to be pointed at the issues and not at the posters themselves. (Well, OK, maybe that wasn't exactly true in the comment that implied that anyone disagreeing with you was undereducated, but once you get past that cheap shot the rest is quite thoughtful.) Good on you both.

[inquisitive]

One problem here is that a car is very often more highly regarded than a house or condo. This is why people have repayments on a car that can be up to 90% of their income. They live with relatives & probably have their food & utilities paid for.

It's the opposite attitude to the so-called advanced countries: car first, house second rather than house first & car second.

It's all about face. They can show off their ride to their friends, but most often the friends won't visit their house. Our school car park is full of new cars owned by Thai teacher; the repayments much be equivalent to or more that their monthly salaries. Incredible. Mine was about 1/10 of our family income, paid off 4 years ago.

When I was a young boy in Virginia I went to a white, middle class school just like you'd see on "Leave it to Beaver." Once in a while I would walk the couple of miles home, and the shortest route took me through a small pocket of poor Blacks (this was a long time ago. Heck, they weren't even Blacks back then. They were all Negroes.) Even as a kid I noticed that these homes were run-down shacks built on dirt with trash around the yard, but they all had an old but shiny Cadillac parked out front. My family drove a much cheaper Chevy, but we lived in a middle class neighborhood with well-built and maintained houses with manicured lawns.

I asked my dad why the difference, and he said that the Blacks in that section didn't have enough money to buy a nice house, but they could afford a used luxury car once it was old enough. And once the owner pulled out of their property (they didn't have an actuall driveway), nobody knew what their house looked like, but only saw a man inside an expensive car. So the car was seen by a loat of the world, and the house only by a small group. While he was driving his Cadillac, this poor, uneducated man felt and looked like a rich guy, and so he felt it was worth giveing up on the things my family and yours thought were far more important.

Are you describing the same phenomenum here?

[ALFREDO]

My, I think civilized Western country, -Austria-, has no problem with it, when you buy a car and register it in your name.

Regardless if you have a driving license or not!

Austria with 8,5 million people cannot be compared with Thailand with 67 million people and a megacity like Bangkok with around 10 million people. .

Vienna (Wien) has a mere 1,7 million people

True, true. With these figures Austria has 20% of its population in Vienna, Thailand 15% in Bangkok. Next we'll check on the China figures

Mind you, a gridlock is a gridlock

If it only was so easy rubl...

There are some 16,7 million vehicles* in Austria (Pop. just 8,5 million).

Do you really think that there are 3,34 million -20%- vehicles in Vienna on a population of 1,7 million?

* http://www.abs.gov.a....nsf/mf/9309.0/

But, I agree, a gridlock is a bloody gridlock

You know, that you bring here a Link to -AUSTRALIEN- numbers in the posting?

That is more what "you" maybe wanted to show.

http://en.wikipedia....cles_per_capita

So, Austria has more than 3 times the number of cars on the road per capita (per 100.000) people) than Thailand,

so a lot space for more cars in TH!

Bangkok, Phuket, Pattaya ect is not representing all of Thailand!

But, anyway, I do not understand what you want to proof with your lamenting.

My posting was about -REGISTERING and BUYING a car- nothing else!

Here is an interesting statistic

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

Edited January 12, 2013 by ALFREDO

[jbrain]

Solve the problem a little like they do in China's megacities:

* EVEN DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an even number are allowed to drive

* ODD DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an odd number are allowed to drive

If caught, the driver gets a heavy penalty or even take the drivers' license away.

With this system people will get creative and "poll" to and from work to their neighbourhood.

Read my words... .this system will ALSO be installed in Bangkok in the near future; it's the ONLY way out of a strangled city.

Now if only could add the word " enforced " to your sentence. But we all know why that word is missing.

[Robby nz]

As I watch from my bus seat I shake my head in wonder that anyone in their right mind would want to drive in BKK and most of the v-hicls seem to have only one person in them.

Not only because of the traffic but it must be a hell of a job to find a place to park then there is the likelyhood of dings.

There is no need to drive unless its on business delivering something as there is public transport everywhere, skytrain, underground, buses, taxis by the thousand, if you fancy a breath of fresh air you could try a tuk tuk or if you feel suicidal a motor bike taxi.

Them who drive in BKK please tell me why.

[rixalex]

As I watch from my bus seat I shake my head in wonder that anyone in their right mind would want to drive in BKK and most of the v-hicls seem to have only one person in them.

Not only because of the traffic but it must be a hell of a job to find a place to park then there is the likelyhood of dings.

There is no need to drive unless its on business delivering something as there is public transport everywhere, skytrain, underground, buses, taxis by the thousand, if you fancy a breath of fresh air you could try a tuk tuk or if you feel suicidal a motor bike taxi.

Them who drive in BKK please tell me why.

Safety. Using public transport, especially the sort of public transport i used to - minibuses - essentially means placing your life in someone else's hands, and too often those hands seem to be attached to the body of a complete maniac. At least when you drive yourself, you have some control over whether you live, die... or become paralysed from the neck down.

[FarangTalk]

As I watch from my bus seat I shake my head in wonder that anyone in their right mind would want to drive in BKK and most of the v-hicls seem to have only one person in them.

Not only because of the traffic but it must be a hell of a job to find a place to park then there is the likelyhood of dings.

There is no need to drive unless its on business delivering something as there is public transport everywhere, skytrain, underground, buses, taxis by the thousand, if you fancy a breath of fresh air you could try a tuk tuk or if you feel suicidal a motor bike taxi.

Them who drive in BKK please tell me why.

I'm of the same opinion, sold my two vehicles when I moved back into the city centre. Before I was using them for the occasional commute into the city centre from where I lived.

Would never consider owning a vehicle in central Bangkok again. I use buses, MRT, BTS and taxis if necessary. The taxis are the most hassle.

For the Thais it is all about status, good luck to them, but as usual their priorities are ar*e about face.

[LaoPo]

You know, that you bring here a Link to -AUSTRALIEN- numbers in the posting?

Apologize; I was very tired at that moment and made a reading mistake. Sorry

[ALFREDO]

Apologize; I was very tired at that moment and made a reading mistake. Sorry

-LaoPo-

No problem, can happen.

Happens often in Asia, that mix up.

By the way, nice friendly, reaction and posting from you.

[Lammbock]

It's not the cars what is the problem, it is the roads and traffic lights/junction what let traffic come to a complete stand still most of the time.

The wurst case it's when it starts raining. It seem like Thai's can't drive wile it's raining.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Lammbock