An Ambulance Siren Should Have Been Blaring: Thai Editorial

[LuckyLew]

Good to see the people running this country caring so much for everyone the govern

Disgraceful

But have to add, drivers in Thailand do not give way to sirens ...

Hope a full recovery is had

[thaikahuna]

The doctor's first rule is do no harm. The second is do not lose face to an untrained medic who is not as well trained. The medics need to have the authority to think outside the box which clearly cannot be done here without the approval of someone with authority.

I hope the man pulls through also.

[timewilltell]

"It is difficult to decide which is more disturbing - the human or the ethical aspects of Sakol's case. This is a strange world, after all, in which people will nurse injured stray animals back to health and yet shrug off an event involving injured humans, like what happened at Parliament on Thursday.

The medics involved must have been junior, but what have they been taught and from whom did they learn? Being heartless and unethical requires no lessons, to be sure. They don't teach us in school to save our own skin first, but that doesn't mean we can't quickly learn the lesson"

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This isn't about being human or ethical, but more the cultures of societies.

This is a clear example of the differences between collectivistic and individualistic societies.

The majority of Western societies are individualistic, and the East collectivistic.

In this frame of reference, there was little wrong action in the thoughts of the Thai team, be they young as questioned, or elder.

It is difficult for most to perceive what was going through their minds, as most members here come from individualistic backgrounds.

Apply a little psychology, at least when writing such reports, because your assumptions are individualism based, and don't include the minds of the collectivistic.

-mel.

Hmm I am not so sure the Asians are a more collectivistic society - from what I have seen Thai people are the some of the most selfish people I have come across - look at the way they drive, the way anything you want involves payment and just general observation. It is the Thai way to do favours only if they benefit you or may benefit you later - otherwise forget it. Personally I would put this society as an individualistic one rather than as you have described it.

[Briggsy]

Join a 'bodysnatching foundation', buy an old estate car, put loads of stickers on your vehicle, put on a boiler suit, fit a flashing light and a loud siren (plenty of shops specialise in doing this) and immediately...

Your vehicle has become an ambulance and you.....

have become a paramedic.

No need to worry about training or equipment or anything like that.

[fakename]

Why do you need to get an estate car, just get an old pick-up. Your right about the stickers, they are very important. I dont know about the flashing lights though, since everyone already has them. Funny to see the police on patrol on Jomtien beach road, with their flashing lights, dont they even understand those are supposed to be used for an Emergency?

But also another angle that we should look at, is that maybe a lot of these ambulances are actually not on an emergency call, but just want to get through the traffic. Could Thai drivers know this, or at least they suspect this is the case. Of course its stupid anyway, to try and guess is an ambulance really on an emergency run or not.

[lahgon29]

Sirens? I have yet to see any motorist yield to an emergency vehicle here.

Correct, in the seven years I have lived here, I have seen plenty of ambulances with flashing lights, but have never seen a vehicle pull in to let one pass.

Some years back a friend was a junior copper in Sydney had a front seat ride in an ambulance carrying a serious RTA victim. Amused himself by noting number plates of vehicles not attempting to clear the way and spent the afternoon sending out almost 50 infringement notices. IMHO ambulances should have a camera activated by siren for just this purpose.

I was an inner city Brisbane paramedic for 27 yrs, and I could count on 1 hand the amount of cars that made no effort to move. I'm not counting the ones frozen and unable to move who just slam their brakes on. Sydney sounds like a mini Thailand, or maybe just "another" over enthusiastic copper!

[Pormax]

After doing the Thai driving test and told my answer was wrong as when not to drive (I ticked after having a drink)and that the correct answer was 'If you think you are going to have a heart attack' I had assumed that as this was decided by people in some sort of power that all in a similar position would have this incredible insight to the future and be forewarned if they are going to fall ill.

As they had not booked the ambulance for say 4pm that day surely it could have been used for the journalist.

[Tomtomtom69]

Thailand is the only country where I have seen an ambulance (with lights flashing) queuing to pay a freeway toll. This says much about the 'Land of S......'.

Haha! That is so ridiculous. But when will this country join the 21st century and eliminate cash toll booths? While "EasyPass" is a start, it ain't really an EasyPass when you have to slow down to a crawl and wait for a barrier to open that is only 0.2 seconds faster than paying by cash. Not to mention the idiots who reverse when they realize they've ended up in the wrong lane (I'm talking about the bozos that don't have an EasyPass), slowing down everyone behind them.

An electronic toll collection point, as employed in numerous places around the world (Singapore, Australia, the USA etc.) doesn't require drivers to slow down much, they can just drive through and a beeping sound inside their toll collection units will alert them that the toll has been paid. Traffic jams are elminated and ambulance drivers get through. Not only that, but the tollway operators can still charge them, but this time with a good conscience (since they are not delaying the ambulance drivers, but can still get money anyway). This technology is not new and Australia has used it for something like 10 years.

[Tomtomtom69]

"It is difficult to decide which is more disturbing - the human or the ethical aspects of Sakol's case. This is a strange world, after all, in which people will nurse injured stray animals back to health and yet shrug off an event involving injured humans, like what happened at Parliament on Thursday.

The medics involved must have been junior, but what have they been taught and from whom did they learn? Being heartless and unethical requires no lessons, to be sure. They don't teach us in school to save our own skin first, but that doesn't mean we can't quickly learn the lesson"

----------------------

This isn't about being human or ethical, but more the cultures of societies.

This is a clear example of the differences between collectivistic and individualistic societies.

The majority of Western societies are individualistic, and the East collectivistic.

In this frame of reference, there was little wrong action in the thoughts of the Thai team, be they young as questioned, or elder.

It is difficult for most to perceive what was going through their minds, as most members here come from individualistic backgrounds.

Apply a little psychology, at least when writing such reports, because your assumptions are individualism based, and don't include the minds of the collectivistic.

-mel.

Hmm I am not so sure the Asians are a more collectivistic society - from what I have seen Thai people are the some of the most selfish people I have come across - look at the way they drive, the way anything you want involves payment and just general observation. It is the Thai way to do favours only if they benefit you or may benefit you later - otherwise forget it. Personally I would put this society as an individualistic one rather than as you have described it.

That is true in many ways. Although I am no anthropologist (although I have taken courses and read books related to culture, doing business internationally and anthropology, all of which are related in some ways), but the way I understand it is that in general a Thai or Asians in general living in Asia don't want to upset the group dynamic, but in general the "group" refers more to people they know rather than society at large - so don't assume that talking about the "group" means we are talking about society - we aren't. The average Thai cares about family, relatives and friends/business associates/work colleagues in that order. Rarely would they go out of their way to help a stranger especially if it involves a great deal of personal sacrifice in terms of time, money or is otherwise considered inconvenient. In general however, not even taking into account those factors (time, money, inconvenience etc.) a stranger is not considered part of the group and since that stranger will likely never again interact with your average person here (at least that's the thinking) there is also no point in being helpful towards that stranger. Only if that stranger should become a familiar person by becoming a friend or business associate would a Thai start caring about them. However, you will probably see Thais helping strangers in more isolated areas particularly if it looks like nobody else can come to assist them. In general though, don't expect many people to offer help; passing the buck to others is more likely, if there are other people around (which would be the case in urban areas).

Another thing I've noticed is that despite what seems like many young Thais often have a lot of friends compared to their western counterparts, this is somewhat of an illusion. Since it is a group based culture and you often see many people going out with each other, obviously any one individual can't possibly have enough time or opportunity to get to really know any other individual. What this means is that friends are not as close to each other as in the west. Yes sure, Thais are friendly towards others and they may seem to make friends quickly, but in many western countries if you can make friends with someone, even if it takes a long time, once you are friends you will usually be friends with those people for life. They will write you Christmas cards (and if one year they forget, you wonder why), they will call you on your birthday and they will want to see you when they come to your town (in the event you don't live in the same place). If you ever become very sick and nobody else is around to help, they will drive 20km from work to where you are to accompany you to the hospital. The Thais on the other hand, tend to lose friends as quickly as they make them and no one here seems to write Christmas cards (or hehe let's say New Year's cards or any other sort of cards, given we're talking about a Buddhist country) and in general don't seem to be as close to their friends like in the west. Let's call it the concept of "krieng jai" which basically means being considerate towards each other. I've heard Thais say they are "krieng jai" meaning they don't want to impose yet being helpful towards friends and in some cases going out of your way to be helpful is what being friends is all about.

As mentioned above, Thai people are inclined to help people in a certain order - you may find them very caring towards their parents, brother sisters or other relatives, but should a friend become injured or sick, they won't generally rush to their aid as quickly as a friend would towards another friend in the west. Yes, they probably will help out their friend, particularly if they are very sick and it doesn't inconvenience them too much, but in all likelihood if we're talking about an emergency situation, I can't imagine too many Thais would leave their home or work etc. to tend to a sick friend and take them to hospital UNLESS they are very close to them and/or they are in relative proximity to them (or the friend begs them to the point they become annoyed and so are forced to help). In general, Thais would more likely just tell their possibly panic stricken friend to call an ambulance themselves and the friend(s) will see them later at the hospital. While I haven't experienced anything like that so far, I have encountered some situations where even supposedly close Thai friends of some have been a little less than helpful when I have requested certain help (it wasn't hospital or medical related though) but this surprised me as it made me immediately change my opinion of them.

Interestingly, I've noticed that although in China it's quite similar to Thailand, if you are a considered an important guest or just a member of the larger "circle of family, friends and business/work contacts" that they want to ensure you are well looked after at all times. This seems to be even more important in China than in Thailand.

Case in point: I had an emergency at almost midnight after dislocating my shoulder in China about a month ago. I called my boss and long-term friend even though I already had about 5 people with me just to let her know what happened (note I did not request any additional help). She sent her driver and another company employee to see me there at the hospital, some 20-30km away from where her employee lives. This must have seemed inconvenient for them especially since it was about 12.30am by the time I left the hospital, but no one batted an eyelid nor complained, they just wanted to see me get better, which I did as my condition seemed scary at first but fortunately in the end it was fine. If this had happened in Thailand, I am not sure that anyone else except maybe, and only maybe one or two of my closest friends would have offered to assist me. Sure,the hospitals in Thailand are better than those I encountered in China but that's not the point. It's about getting to the hospital and being looked after by people you know once there.

[Jim walker]

They are voted in to serve the people and do there job’s obviously not very good at serving people or making a simple decision. A decision that a school child could have made

[NoshowJones]

Sirens? I have yet to see any motorist yield to an emergency vehicle here.

Correct, in the seven years I have lived here, I have seen plenty of ambulances with flashing lights, but have never seen a vehicle pull in to let one pass.

Some years back a friend was a junior copper in Sydney had a front seat ride in an ambulance carrying a serious RTA victim. Amused himself by noting number plates of vehicles not attempting to clear the way and spent the afternoon sending out almost 50 infringement notices. IMHO ambulances should have a camera activated by siren for just this purpose.

I was an inner city Brisbane paramedic for 27 yrs, and I could count on 1 hand the amount of cars that made no effort to move. I'm not counting the ones frozen and unable to move who just slam their brakes on. Sydney sounds like a mini Thailand, or maybe just "another" over enthusiastic copper!

Brisbane sounds like a mini Thailand? The Australian IQ is similar to the UK, about 100, Thailand is only about 90. So I must assume IQs don't come in to the equasion here.

[rbrooks]

I will bet you that the Ambulance driver was smiling while he refused service for the poor journalist. Welcome to the LOS. Amazing Thailand.

[rbrooks]

I know an elderly Thai woman here in Florida who is a widow and lives on a pension. She has had a heart condition but is fully covered under her deceased husband's military health care program. I asked her why she did not go back to her country, Thailand. She told me that she would die for sure in Thailand because they do not provide proper medical care in her own country.

[Mudcrab]

I know an elderly Thai woman here in Florida who is a widow and lives on a pension. She has had a heart condition but is fully covered under her deceased husband's military health care program. I asked her why she did not go back to her country, Thailand. She told me that she would die for sure in Thailand because they do not provide proper medical care in her own country.

I smashed...and I mean smashed a knuckle on my hand during Songkran last year.....thought I had dislocated it. After a few weeks I saw a doc in Oz who abused me for not seeing a doc in Thailand when it happened as they are, in her opinion, amongst the best in the world....

[teatree]

I know an elderly Thai woman here in Florida who is a widow and lives on a pension. She has had a heart condition but is fully covered under her deceased husband's military health care program. I asked her why she did not go back to her country, Thailand. She told me that she would die for sure in Thailand because they do not provide proper medical care in her own country.

I smashed...and I mean smashed a knuckle on my hand during Songkran last year.....thought I had dislocated it. After a few weeks I saw a doc in Oz who abused me for not seeing a doc in Thailand when it happened as they are, in her opinion, amongst the best in the world....

There are some very good hospitals in Thailand, but they would be out of the price range of a widow on a pension.

[chooka]

I know an elderly Thai woman here in Florida who is a widow and lives on a pension. She has had a heart condition but is fully covered under her deceased husband's military health care program. I asked her why she did not go back to her country, Thailand. She told me that she would die for sure in Thailand because they do not provide proper medical care in her own country.

I smashed...and I mean smashed a knuckle on my hand during Songkran last year.....thought I had dislocated it. After a few weeks I saw a doc in Oz who abused me for not seeing a doc in Thailand when it happened as they are, in her opinion, amongst the best in the world....

Let me guess, a few to many Changs and you punched a brick wall Just kidding. My/Family Doctor in Australia is actually Thai and a very good Doctor.