Future Of Gay Culture In Thailand

[Ijustwannateach]

This will be a little long, but please bear with me. I want to compare present day Thai gay culture with slightly outdated Japanese gay culture and ask what our readers predict.

I am privileged to know a number of very long-term gay foreign residents of Japan (as well as quite a number of Japanese gays).

From my discussions with them, I have learned that quite some time ago (we're talking as long ago as the postwar era), Japanese gay life was quite different from what it is today. One of my friends recalls being in Osaka in the 50s, when there were no blatantly "gay" bars to speak of- he would go to Shinsaibashi (still a nightlife area today) and visit any old bar or pub. If he met a guy he liked, he would invite him home- no checking about whether he was gay or not. Usually his invitation would be accepted. When they arrived at his home, he would make a pass at the guy- and he told me almost every time things simply went smoothly from there. The few times that the guy he invited home was surprised or hadn't understood the intentions of this foreigner, the typical reaction was to laugh and go to bed with him anyway. Some other friends of mine confirm this report, commenting also that the *straight* Japanese were wild and eager partners, never mind the "gays."

Nowadays, with greater Westernization and adoption of Western academic perspectives, there is a greater "gay consciousness" in Japan along with current liberal Western models of sexuality. There are also gay bars, gay ghettos, and a certain exposure of the public to gay issues and lifestyles through the media. You wouldn't go to a "straight" bar expecting to meet any old guy and take him home...

The political consciousness of gays is not as great in Japan as in English-speaking countries, but it is developing along... there are HIV hotlines, support groups, hospices, and so forth run and staffed by Japanese.

However...

Once I was in a really blue-collar pub-bar (a yatai-mura- served lovely food and all the beer and sake you could handle) with a mixed group of coworkers and friends, not all of whom knew I was gay. As I was drinking at a counter with them, a big, healthy young man in his 20s who'd obviously had a few came up and started hugging and clinging to me (unfortunately, I didn't uniformly inspire this behavior in Japanese young men). Now, this was clearly a very, very straight kind of place- but in Japan behavior under the influence of alcohol is sort of pre-forgiven as a way for people to blow off steam, so no one would have taken it seriously in the morning. If I had been by myself, maybe I *would* have talked to him more or invited him home. Anyway, I was a bit embarrassed but it wasn't unpleasant so I just let him hug me and hugged him back. Suddenly one of the Japanese girls sitting next to me said to me in English, somewhat unpleasantly, "Oh, he must be gay." *IMMEDIATELY* the young man backed off, denying in Japanese and broken English that he was "gay." It took the Western category to restrain his behavior.

And, there was a strange friendship I had from my gym in Osaka... an achingly beautiful young office worker who had been a swim team champion in his college days invited me to his home, and we would drink a lot, and then exchange massages. It never went further than that, but my visits to his home always included these long, comprehensive sessions of body contact. He got married just after I left Japan.

But on the other hand...

Even the Japanese attitude towards nudity is changing in certain situations. In locker rooms or the beach or the pool, they cover themselves carefully with their towels to change into their suits or out of their gym clothes. However, in traditional public baths or hot springs, whoosh! Off go the clothes and you sort of hide your naughty parts in front with a tiny, tiny towel.

Now for the Thai connection....

It has often been remarked that Thais do not fit into the same stereotypical sexual "boxes" that the English-speaking world has made for itself. (There is some disputation that Westerners themselves actually fit those boxes, but in general those are the categories through which many people tend to

express opinions about sexuality). For example, it has been remarked that "straight" men in Thailand are not always averse (and rarely averse in the extremely homophobic way that many English-speaking straight men are) to having sex with other men, or kathoeys. I can imagine the scenario of "meeting the straight guy while drinking and winding up in bed" mentioned by my Japanese-expat friends as being quite common here.

Furthermore, although there are a number of gay bars the scene is still quite small compared to the gay population; and gay political/social consciousness could be reasonably described as "nascent." I do have one friend who is active as one of the "rainbow" groups who goes around giving seminars on safe sex, etc.

As a less important comparison on the nudity issue, at my gym the Thais are still quite shy even in the locker room- they not only hide their naked bodies, but even their underwear-clad bodies, under their towels.

Things are changing a little bit- there is more consciousness of gay issues, and also a certain homophobic political edge developing. One of my older friends blames the upper and middle class bourgeouis for this, as they are more concerned with "Westernization" and the foreign perception of Thailand.

So, here's the question: IS my suggestion that Japanese sexuality 40-50 years ago was similar to many aspects of present-day Thai sexuality reasonable, or not, and why? If it is reasonable, is Thailand headed towards a "modernisation/Westernisation" of sexual concepts along the lines of Japan's changes in the last few decades, or is it going in another direction (what?)? And, which ever way you *think* it will go, is this the direction you think it really *should* go or not?

"Steven"

[toptuan]

Having worked in Japan for a decade (recently) I am aware of some of the history you mention. My impression of Japan was a very sexually up-tight culture (until they got drunk, as you experienced! Or until they could bury their heads in a "manga" cartoon magazine which contained the most sexually explicit and sadistic images I have ever imagined.). And yes, I see Thailand going exactly the same way of the westernization of concepts concerning sexuality.

As to whether it "should" or not is really irrelevant to what will actually happen. "Should," of course represents my personal value judgement. So here goes...

One thing that definitely attracted me to Thailand was its over all relaxed attitudes toward sexuality, particularly the gay world. Additionally, I like how straight guys openly express physical affection without the homophobic reactions you'd get in the west. There's a certain innocence to it that is like a breath of fresh air.

But, I see a change, too. I notice how the more "worldly-wise" university student is more conscious of these issues with even shades of mild homophobia. It seems directly proportional to his/her westernization. There is almost none of it in the younger ages, particularly in rural areas.

Because of these "westernization" issues on sexuality and male-male affection, I love visiting Laos which is yet 20-30 years behind Thailand in westernization. A handsome, probably straight, young Lao man sat down next to me on a crowded bus going out into the countryside from Vientienne. As we chatted, he held my hand in a totally non-sexual but very sweet friendly-intimate way as we bounced along the country roads. He talked delightedly about his vocational training in the city, his family, his future desire to marry and have a family. So open, so un-selfconscious of coming across, "too friendly" or "too intimiate" or (horrors) "too gay". It was just a sweet meeting of two strangers who shared their lives for a couple hours in a warm, friendly, accepting environment with no social or mental "baggage" attached.

I've had a few experiences like that in Thailand--never in Bangkok, but usually upcountry.

As Bangkok westernizes, and, more slowly, the rest of Thailand follows suit, I do see the lines being drawn on sexual pidgeon-hole-ing. I fully expect it to be as uptight as Japan or the west in a decade or two. It's a sad development to me. Time to start a LaoVisa.com, I guess.

[ProThaiExpat]

In the four years I have been here, I have noticed the same trend. As the "westernization" of Thailand evolves, so do the adopted attitudes.

Example, although not necessarily all pervasive, is gay.com. While I was abroad four years ago, I spent a great deal of time in the Bkk chat room talking to Thais, rarely was there any mention of age in what a Thai wanted in a partner.

Today, as you can see for yourself, many Thais have age restrictions on their "want" list. Coming from a very age conscious society in the west, I find this development indicative of "westernization" of the gay culture.

The notion that the "country-side" has yet to assimilate this "westernization" is valid in my view, so those who desire to go back five years or more to reverse this "westernization" of gay culture in Thailand, are wise to get out of BKK to do their "shopping".

[Steve2UK]

No first-hand experience of Japan (although I studied the language at university for a couple of years), so I'll confine this to my take on the changes in Thailand since I first visited in the 80's.

I certainly agree with PTE about the growing tendency for a Thai guy to set age limits in his online dating profile (and not just on gay.com). Thankfully, it hasn't yet reached the Western attitude where anything older than 35 seems to be one step from oblivion.............

Similarly, the gym-bunny cult (as in "let's compare six-packs") seems to be spreading from the gay west. Come to that, I remember when you just didn't see bare flesh in online dating profiles - usually only a smiling guy in a T-shirt and jeans with his friends. Now, there's a plethora of near-porn "here's everything" pics. Of course, digital cameras have a lot to do with that - not many of us were that ready to drop our "candid" films into the shop for processing .

I also agree about the BKK versus the rest of LOS comparison. During frequent stays in Hua Hin in the 90's, I reckoned I could always spot the BKK Thai visitors - they were the ones without the T-shirts both on the beach and in the water. Part of my (continuing) Thai learning curve was when I gave a smart T-shirt as a gift to a Hua Hin Thai friend; the first time I saw him wear it was a few days later when he changed into it (under a towel) to go swimming with me............

Factors like these lie behind my liking for Chiang Mai and other up-country parts of LOS as compared with BKK, Phuket, Pattaya etc; to me, it's more the "real" (less westernised) Thailand that I appreciate - but it does look like the reality is changing.