Smoke, Smog, Dust 2013 Chiang Mai

[chiang mai]

The US this,the US that, the US is great, for goodness sake NS, this is a thread about pollution in Chiang Mai, the entire world does not revolve around the US, believe it or not.

[noikrit]

Feel sorry for you " Northerners" Truly , you move to your "country" paradise and get inundated by smog and haze .. Nothing is gonna change for the better fast unfortunatly, that's the locals and mother natures choice .... BIP ... Breathe In Peace ..

[chiang mai]

Feel sorry for you " Northerners" Truly , you move to your "country" paradise and get inundated by smog and haze .. Nothing is gonna change for the better fast unfortunatly, that's the locals and mother natures choice .... BIP ... Breathe In Peace ..

To be perfectly honest, the weather and climate that exists here for at least nine months out of the year actually makes those six to eight weeks in the burning season quite tolerable.

[thailiketoo]

Before you get all upset by this seemingly short-sighted policy, consider the enormous socioeconomic problems complicating a solution in a primarily agricultural country that lead to such a "patently absurd" official partial solution. Also consider burning of agricultural waste in so-called economically-developed countries. Can you guess which ?

"Also consider burning of agricultural waste in so-called economically-developed countries. Can you guess which ?"

No I can't guess. Have any links?

The US for instance grows a lot of rice. Primarily that is in delta areas such as the Sacramento River near Sacramento and toward San Francisco, and in the famous swamp areas around New Orleans and the Everglades in Florida.

The US banned burning in 1991, to be phased out by 2000. Now the only way to get a permit is to prove that crop harming disease is present, and that only burning will kill it. Link

The US is huge, these areas have coastal wind influence, and a little bit of burning hurts no one. It is totally unlike SE Asia.

A problem with rice straw is that despite best efforts by scientists even in universities, there's little commercial value for it. The answer for most is to plow it in and let it compost. However in soils that never or rarely dry out, there is anaerobic decomposition which sours the soil. Farmers with this type of soil struggle the most.

I can remember when fields were burned before anyone cared. It wasn't just rice either. Those who grew grass seed for lawns always burned the fields to remove disease and weeds so that their seed would be pure. I can't recall anyone burning corn stalks because it is a grass and makes a good winter feed supplement for ruminants such as cattle. It is harvested green and made into "silage."

So who are these so-called developed countries which treat their air as SE Asia does? I will be sad to learn.

Where is rice grown?

Arkansas ranks first among the six major rice-producing states, accounting for approximately 48 percent of the U.S. rice production.

The USDA actively supports rice farming in Arkansas with various subsidies and programs. In 2010, rice subsidies in Arkansas totaled $189,171,838, the majority of which was in the form of direct payment. However, the USDA also supports Arkansas rice farmers in the form of other economic programs such as production flexibility and commodity certificates, which cost the government over $1 billion and $790 million in subsidies, respectively, from 1995-2010.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/osceola-ar/TC3RRC1S740FTRHD6

The EPA will come down quickly on a factory for polluting the air. Yet, these farmers seem to think they are above the law. It appears to me that they do not care that this smoke is making people sick. I have a grandchild that suffers terribly from allergies and asthma. When they burn the fields a lot of people have trouble breathing. Those who suffer the most are children and the elderly. Everyone needs to call the EPA, their congressmen, or anyone else who can help. This is a serious situation, and it needs to stop.

http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/151540/

Crop residue burning occurs in all fifty states, including Alaska. In the contiguous United States nearly 20% of land is dedicated to crops. Depending on where a farmer lives, he or she may simply wake up and decide to burn without any requirements from local, state, or federal laws or agencies. In both Arkansas and Idaho, local officials have reported seeing farmers set fire to old tractor tires and then drag these burning tires across the field in order to burn residues.

Now ya all know the rest of the story.

Edited November 4, 2013 by thailiketoo

[Mapguy]

To answer you, Neversure, you may not be sure ( to judge by your handle ) , but I am on this point. Link, my patootie! How about firsthand reports from the foothills surrounding the valley ?! And, I was totally surprised to find another later post about agricultural rice field burning in the USA! Maybe the American Congressional conservatives ought to really get off their ass and provide more funding for the EPA rather than trying to starve it out of existence!

So, you guessed which country! But there is no prize!

The place of which I spoke is the Sacramento Valley of California. Otherwise, you had a lot of interesting things to write in your post, some quite useful, in my view, in a few different ways. You are certainly correct, for example, when you say that the USA is not Thailand. Northern and Central Plain Thai farmers (except the big interests) are definitely not the same as Sacramento Valley farmers!

If people read what you have said carefully, it is interesting what they learn. For example, how long it took to "phase out" burning in California. Now, think about phasing out agricultural burning in Thailand, a economically-developing country with poor regulatory history with so many poor farmers sweating for a meager living. Unfortunately, it is also a country, like all others who can certainly do much better to act, it seems, that never really computes and acts upon the eventual societal costs of preventative public health. Now, it seems, to speak more broadly, the Chinese government is really becoming very concerned about it's air pollution problems, which are truly catastrophic for the public health of huge populations.

But let's get back to the point. While interesting that the purpose of this thread is to discuss the problem in Chiang Mai and, I think fairly, to extend it to the problem that is not only valid here but also in adjoining rice-growing regions/countries.

Just to remind you, apparently a Californian, we also have serious problems with dry season forest fires, like California (and Australia, for that matter). Hope you don't have a home in one of the vulnerable California canyons. Or if you do, that you can afford the insurance. Here, people, especially the poor, just get burned out. No insurance.

So, if you have something constructive to add about the problem in Chiang Mai, then I hope you will continue to post. Otherwise, I am sure you'll find some environmentally-conscious thread covering the issue more broadly elsewhere.

Cheers!

Edited November 4, 2013 by Mapguy

[Jose]

Related:

Girl, 8, is China's youngest lung cancer case - heavy pollution blamed for extremely rare case.

[Mapguy]

http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=2582

Ah, the annual "kick off" in Chiang Mai's efforts to eliminate air pollution! Or, as a cynic might say, another showy pseudo-effort --- this one including a stage show (!) that is nothing really more than kicking the can down the road.

What is needed to make measurable progress in substantially lessening or eliminating serious air pollution is indeed complicated and difficult, but this sort of official approach is really absurd.

Further news article reflecting the apparent uselessness to date of such government campaigns with some limited discussion:

http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=2610

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Given that the worst originates in areas outside of Thailand, it's hard to see why anyone would expect miracles from any campaign, government or otherwise.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Meanwhile, in Northern India...

(This is right now in the Delhi area)

PM10 levels are completely beyond anything ever experienced in the Thai smog season, and that's including insane places like Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Son.

[Mapguy]

Yes, Winnie, in Delhi, and in any other rapidly carbon-based energy-powered countries which are experiencing industrial growth. Delhi is nothing compared to some Northern Chinese industrial cities.

Yes, Winnie. Here in Thailand (Say, here, more specifically, in Northern Thailand, it is not so bad as in some other countries. It isn't.

Yes, Winnie, here in Chiang Mai, in Northern Thailand, the air pollution is perhaps most often not so bad as in the bordering provinces, such as in Mae Hong Song and Chiang Rai, much (if not all !) of the time.

But, Winnie, air pollution HERE is still a problem which, seasonally, can be quite bad. It definitely contributes to the death of some people. For many, many others, it causes a huge increase in respiratory disease. Some people say it is not a personal problem for them. What about the huge number of people who do suffer?

Winnie, most of us who live and work in Chiang Mai can not escape from the seasonal air pollution by traveling to better places when it is really noxious to be here.

For those who wish to retire here, or those with small children, please understand some realities that you will face.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ of course; not disagreeing with any of that. I was just amazed to see it affect Delhi in that way, with values double that of the worst Chiang Rai or Mae Hong Son have seen. Not saying there isn't a serious problem in Northern Thailand.

[chiang mai]

But what is the state of air pollution in Ulan Bator, I feel it's important to understand that in order to fully appreciate the CM picture fully, anyone?

[angledream]

thank you for your information and report.

[Jose]

Related:

Shanghai Orders Cars Off Roads as Pollution Exceeds Scale

Wuxi Air Pollution: Real-time Air Quality Index (AQI)

[Mapguy]

Yes, Jose, the situation in recent days in Eastern China is truly extreme --- and much worse than experienced here in Chiang Mai. Very, very rarely --- and only for very short spells does it get that bad in Chiang Mai, but that is still not good news for people in Chiang Mai. Be thankful, but...

Don't ignore the problem here because it is worse elsewhere If you'll excuse the phrase, it can be "breathtaking."

There are answers to solve such problems. They aren't easy ones. But they do start with individual initiative. That initiative could be to goad government, to help support existing concerns about the social and economic costs of air pollution. That sounds stuffy! Just keep pushing.

Don't stay mute. There is no Thai national conspiracy to pollute the air. Concerned people are aware. Support that. Support action for change. Change is hard.

[chiang mai]

Even with Europe's guidelines and controls they're still dieing:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/air-pollution-europe-kills-even-guideline-levels-001239827.html

Edited December 9, 2013 by chiang mai

[Mapguy]

What better to do on a rainy day just as the burning season for 2013-2014 gets off to a start than to clean the filters on the air conditioners!

For newcomers in Thailand, particularly in the central and northern provinces, here is a suggestion for the least expensive and effective filter material for air conditioners. Made by 3M, It is called Filtrete. In Chiang Mai, it is available at HomePro stores and probably others including the shop (if it is still there) on the SE side of Wulai Road a few hundred meters from the moat. It is known as the place where Darth Vader buys his masks. Others can provide other places that sell the material.

This material comes in bundles of two packets each. One packet will basically cover three room-sized 9 - 12 BTU units, but buy one more just to have it on hand. It is a popular item late in the season when the smoke really gets bad. Depending on the intensity of the pollution and air conditioner use over time, you probably would want to put in fresh material twice a year, perhaps at the beginning and halfway through the season.

This filter material is reviewed here: http://www.filtrete.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/FiltreteNA/Filtrete/Products/~/A-C-Filter?N=4315+3294573956+3294529207&rt=rud. For more serious filters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA. There is quite a discussion earlier on in this thread or perhaps in the general thread that preceded it covering the 2012 season. Anyway, search "HEPA" to see about air filters. You'll soon see quite a variety of room air filters available in stores, if they aren't already there.

[scotinsiam]

What better to do on a rainy day just as the burning season for 2013-2014 gets off to a start than to clean the filters on the air conditioners!

For newcomers in Thailand, particularly in the central and northern provinces, here is a suggestion for the least expensive and effective filter material for air conditioners. Made by 3M, It is called Filtrete. In Chiang Mai, it is available at HomePro stores and probably others including the shop (if it is still there) on the SE side of Wulai Road a few hundred meters from the moat. It is known as the place where Darth Vader buys his masks. Others can provide other places that sell the material.

This material comes in bundles of two packets each. One packet will basically cover three room-sized 9 - 12 BTU units, but buy one more just to have it on hand. It is a popular item late in the season when the smoke really gets bad. Depending on the intensity of the pollution and air conditioner use over time, you probably would want to put in fresh material twice a year, perhaps at the beginning and halfway through the season.

This filter material is reviewed here: http://www.filtrete.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/FiltreteNA/Filtrete/Products/~/A-C-Filter?N=4315+3294573956+3294529207&rt=rud. For more serious filters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA. There is quite a discussion earlier on in this thread or perhaps in the general thread that preceded it covering the 2012 season. Anyway, search "HEPA" to see about air filters. You'll soon see quite a variety of room air filters available in stores, if they aren't already there.

Thank you Mapguy, I went to Big C on the superhighway yesterday (one near Index) and bought them in Homepro - they are on offer just now 2 packs for the price of 1 - 199 per pack.

They are in the lane with the toilet brushes as you would logically expect.

[wernerfreitag]

Just saw the first big fire in this cold season in Chiang Dao.They start early! About 1 km long and goes up one of the mountains in the forest reserve.

How stupid can these people be?

[millwall_fan]

We drove up to CM from Bangkok yesterday. From Tak onwards there was evidence of burning, from small wayside fires to medium sized conflagrations. LAst night we spent our first night in 3 months in CM - with the window open - it being 4 or 5 degrees cooler than Bangkok and the smell of smoke in the air was unmistakeable. Here we (or rather you, go again.)

[Tokay]

So are they burning already or is this just pollution trapped from low pressure? How depressing. I really love this time of the year and it looks like they are going to ruin it.

[MESmith]

So are they burning already or is this just pollution trapped from low pressure? How depressing. I really love this time of the year and it looks like they are going to ruin it.

The rice fields are ablaze where I live SE of the city.

[Mikey5311]

It's not just the fires, nor the ample amount of petro exhaust. Granted, when your at ground zero, Chiang mai has enough of this. But our problem gets severe when the warm weather comes in. Normally, all the horrid pollution that this city produces will still rise into the atmosphere at various levels, winds, etc. However during warm weather we get an inverse condition greatly added by the fires burning at higher elevations. Chiang mai is actually in a valley. The air above is then warmer than below (inverse condition). This interferes with the dissipation of the crap normally created here.

[MESmith]

Just back from Mae Hong Son area where the air was fairly clear. Not so clear in Pai valley, arrived back in Chiang Mai valley, could hardly see Doi Suthep as we drove south from Mae Rim. Back in San Kamphaeng, no view at all of Doi Suthep.

[Tywais]

I've opened the 2014 Smoke topic here - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/692704-smoke-smog-dust-2014-chiang-mai/