Passport Conundrum

[the cougal]

Girl has UK and Thai Passports and Thai ID card

Has had Thai and UK passports for 10 years

Thai Passport expires March 2013

Apparently to get renewed Thai passport have to have both parents present or if mother not there must have mothers actual ID card and Tabian Baan!

Mother missing 4 years Where? who knows?

So no chance of mother being present,nor availability of ID card. Tabian Baan etc....apparently cannot get new passport without this documentation!! Is this really true?

So....if child leaves LOS on UK passport...can obviously return on UK passport. What happens when she returns? Maybe gets tourist visa on strength of UK passport? ..but she is Thai. So when she wants to leave again...on UK passport what will they say.....overstay? How can I overstay when I am Thai?

Any thoughts?

[beano2274]

are her parents divorced, as mother missing for 4 years is a reason for divorce.

So just before her Mum disappeared she got a new passport. If mum and dad divorced the parent having custody can apply with the document from the Ampur.

[lopburi3]

Yes can enter Thailand on foreign passport and a one year extension of stay would be available on evidence of Thai nationality even if here on a foreign passport so there is no need for overstay.

[mahjongguy]

"Apparently to get renewed Thai passport have to have both parents present or if mother not there must have mothers actual ID card and Tabian Baan!"

Is that statement really true?

[lopburi3]

Depends on age and there are alternative procedures that might be available (but suspect father is not Thai so that likely makes it more difficult).

[Soutpeel]

"Apparently to get renewed Thai passport have to have both parents present or if mother not there must have mothers actual ID card and Tabian Baan!"

Is that statement really true?

Not true...she only needs her old passport, Thai ID and Tabian Baan to renew an existing passport

[Mario2008]

For a minor ( person under 20 who is not married) both parents must sign the passport application. Only when 1 parent has sole custody that parent can sign the papers alone.

One could contact the Thai consular affairs department, paspsort office to see if soemthing can be done. But the rules are as stated above.

The only step available would be to apply for sole custody based on the mother not being availeble. Don't know if that woud work, as a Thai judge is reluctant to give sole custody.

[Mario2008]

"Apparently to get renewed Thai passport have to have both parents present or if mother not there must have mothers actual ID card and Tabian Baan!"

Is that statement really true?

Not true...

The actual rules are stated here: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Both parents must consent, the ID-card and tabien baan is not giving consent. Either both parents go to the paspsort office or only one parent goes and the other one signs the form for consent. I believe this must be stamped at the amphur for verification.

[Soutpeel]

"Apparently to get renewed Thai passport have to have both parents present or if mother not there must have mothers actual ID card and Tabian Baan!"

Is that statement really true?

Not true...

The actual rules are stated here: http://www.mfa.go.th...s-Applicat.html

Both parents must consent, the ID-card and tabien baan is not giving consent. Either both parents go to the paspsort office or only one parent goes and the other one signs the form for consent. I believe this must be stamped at the amphur for verification.

sorry missed the bit about the child, TV's have problem saying Thai girl when they mean Thai lady...your correct

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Got a Q related to: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

All of this seems to apply to issuance of the original passport. So, how about renewing or obtaining a new passport? The individual, under 20 years of age, I guess, would have already gone through the gyrations to get the original one. Need to do it all again for a renewal?? The MFA instructions aren't clear on this, or I just missed it.

??

Mac

[Mario2008]

as far a I know, renewing or getting a new passport requires the consent of both parents.

[Arkady]

If the mother cannot be found, the girl may have to live on her UK passport till she is 20 when she can get a Thai passport without parents' consent. Since she can still get her ID card renewed, she can liven in Thailand with all benefits of a Thai citizenship such as education and healthcare. As others have mentioned, she can keep on getting one year extensions of stay from Immigration in British passport under existing rules on production of ID card and tabien baan. Minors can't be charged with overstaying but it is better to do things legally to prevent her from a being hassled and delayed at Immigration when she wants to leave the country. Even when she gets a Thai passport, she should leave on the British one and come back on the Thai one to close out the visa in the British one. Nowadays they are capable of detecting it when someone is trying to leave on a brand new Thai passport after entering on a foreign one and they can fine you for overstaying. The argument that you are Thai doesn't get you off the fine, as they will argue that you chose to enter as a foreigner.

[the cougal]

Yes can enter Thailand on foreign passport and a one year extension of stay would be available on evidence of Thai nationality even if here on a foreign passport so there is no need for overstay.

Thank you

Child has had UK and Thai passports from birth. I think the rules about both parents being required to be present for renewal are clear. However you say 'alternative procedures might be possible?? ...Like what??

Yes Dad is British and Mother Thai. Married in the UK. So can only get divorced in the UK..extremely difficult and expensive if mother can not be found for service of papers etc......though there are reasons for not doing so...if the father dies Mum can get UK pension...and who knows then Mum might re-appear!! Might even then choose to look after daughter??! No, probably not! If minor with Thai nationality cannot overstay what is the need for visa/extension?

Arkady:

" Even when she gets a Thai passport, she should leave on the British one and come back on the Thai one to close out the visa in the British one"

Yes..She has always left on both passports so no problems with entry to UK/Europe and returned to LOS on Thai passport

[lopburi3]

Overstay would be recorded and entered on passport even for those under 15 but no fine would be collected under current policy and no adverse repercussions. But who can predict the future? Much better to pay the 1,900 baht fee each year to remain legal.

Alternative would a paper allowing the other parent to obtain without both parents having to be present (which is frequently done). In this case likely not an option if totally missing but suspect legal court action might be a possibility for a Thai couple but perhaps not for a foreigner.

[Arkady]

It is a little known fact that Thai district offices are empowered to divorce couples married overseas, if both are present. A British friend married his Thai wife in Malaysia and got divorced in a Thai district office using a translation of the Malaysian marriage certificate notarised by the Thai Foreign Ministry. With a notarised translation of his divorce certificate into English he is good to go anywhere in the world and no need to do it again in Malaysia. I think this is possible with perhaps a bit of persuasion, if you are on any type of one year extension visa, so you can argue that you live here. Conversely a UK court will likely refuse to hear a divorce case, if the couple are not both resident in the UK. Where you were married actually has much less bearing than where you are resident when you want to get divorced.

Just a thought but, if you have the budget, it might be worth paying a private investigator to try to trace the mother and offer her some kind of settlement to sign requisite papers for divorce, passport, custody etc. She might even have passed away or moved abroad.

I think it would be hard for her to collect your UK pension (assuming you refer to state pension) if she outlives you, unless she is resident in the UK. There are threads about this in TV that point out the difficulties made for foreign widows resident overseas claiming this. For starters they need to get a UK social security number which is going to be hard for someone living overseas who can't easily get a visa to come to the UK.

[ubonjoe]

I think if there is proof she has been absent for 4 years the divorce could be done without her. You should contact a lawyer to check on your options for this.

[the cougal]

It is a little known fact that Thai district offices are empowered to divorce couples married overseas, if both are present. A British friend married his Thai wife in Malaysia and got divorced in a Thai district office using a translation of the Malaysian marriage certificate notarised by the Thai Foreign Ministry. With a notarised translation of his divorce certificate into English he is good to go anywhere in the world and no need to do it again in Malaysia. I think this is possible with perhaps a bit of persuasion, if you are on any type of one year extension visa, so you can argue that you live here. Conversely a UK court will likely refuse to hear a divorce case, if the couple are not both resident in the UK. Where you were married actually has much less bearing than where you are resident when you want to get divorced.

Just a thought but, if you have the budget, it might be worth paying a private investigator to try to trace the mother and offer her some kind of settlement to sign requisite papers for divorce, passport, custody etc. She might even have passed away or moved abroad.

I think it would be hard for her to collect your UK pension (assuming you refer to state pension) if she outlives you, unless she is resident in the UK. There are threads about this in TV that point out the difficulties made for foreign widows resident overseas claiming this. For starters they need to get a UK social security number which is going to be hard for someone living overseas who can't easily get a visa to come to the UK.

Thank you, again.

Can you trace the source/documentation of your suggestion that the Amphoe could authorise/process a divorce? Of course it is unlikely that both could be present! Have received advice from barrister that a UK court would accept a suit on the basis that the mother has abandoned the child. But also said might have problem then with draconian UK social services!! We have her ID number and Tabian Baan but nobody much here interested in discovering whether these are current.

As to UK pension...she has a UK Social Security number and LTR in UK...and have confirmation in writing from Universities Superannuation/Teachers Pension that there is no requirement for her to reside in UK..(might be of help to someone else, this) also for child...of course UK state pension does not apply as she is 35!....but she could get a widow's allowance!

Anyway it seems that with Thai ID card and UK passport child is pretty secure.

[ubonjoe]

You can get divorced here but as I wrote before you will need to contact a lawyer.

With proof that mother has abandoned her child you could also get custody of your child which would resolve the passport problem.