Thai Airways: No Plan To Review Orders For New Dreamliner Jet

[webfact]

DREAMLINER

No plan to review orders for new jet

NONGNAPAS MAIPANIT

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Thai Airways International has reaffirmed its plan to purchase the Boeing 787, more commonly known as the Dreamliner, despite a series of operational problems faced by carriers currently using the new aircraft.

Chokchai Panyayong, THAI's senior executive vice president for strategy and business development, yesterday said that although the national airline had no Dreamliners in service at the moment, it did have eight on order for delivery between 2014 and 2017.

Four of the aircraft, all eight of which are to be used for regional flights in Asia, are scheduled for delivery next year.

The Dreamliner has been facing a number of operational problems, most recently with Japan's All Nippon Airways needing to make an emergency landing because of a battery problem.

ANA said a cockpit message showed battery problems and a burning smell had been detected in the cockpit and the cabin, forcing a 787 on a domestic flight to land at Takamatsu airport in western Japan.

The 787 Dreamliner is Boeing's newest and most technologically advanced jet, and the company is counting heavily on its success.

Since its launch, which came after delays of more than three years, the plane has been plagued by a series of problems, including a battery fire and fuel leaks.

ANA and Japan Airlines are major customers for the jet, and among the first to fly it.

"Our technicians are now working hand in hand with the Boeing company in solving problems that have occurred in the aircraft and we have primary information about the Dreamliner," Chokchai said.

"We believe Boeing will be able to solve all problems before the delivery of the aircraft to Thai Airways is made. The company has no plan to review any purchase order for the Boeing 787 aircraft at this moment."

On another matter, Smud Poom-On, THAI's director for emergency/crisis response, said that while heavy snow in Japan had caused many flights to be cancelled, operations on THAI's Bangkok-Narita and Bangkok-Haneda routes had been continuing as normal.

Most of the snow-affected flights were domestic daytime operations, which was when the bulk of the snow had fallen, he added.

-- The Nation 2013-01-17

[bigbamboo]

They may not be safe but they are cheap.

[1weatherman]

As with any new technology you probably don't want to be the first in line to get it. Many airlines think the same. Wait awhile until the bugs are worked out. JAL and ANA got the planes with the bugs as they took the first orders. United has 7? of the planes and no problems so far. By the time Thai gets delivery the problems should be fixed. You'd hope so or Boeing will be getting a lot of cancelled orders.

[lomatopo]

United has 7? of the planes and no problems so far.

Note that, as of today Jan. 16, 2013, the FAA (U.S. aviation regulator) has grounded all 787'es which currently only impacts UA.

UA has had some issues with the 787, I remember at least one resulted in "diversion" to MSY back in early December, after a sudden loss in power and altitude.

The Li-ON battery issue seems to be the most concerning at present? One hopes that the 787 ends up with the enviable safety record of the 777, which has suffered no hull losses, and no fatalities to date. Yes, there was a close call at LHR.

FAA grounds Boeing 787s to address risk of battery fires

Published January 16, 2013Associated Press

Aug. 26, 2011: A 787 Dreamliner sits on the tarmac at Boeing Commercial Airplanes manufacturing facilities at Paine Field, Everett, Washington during the jetliner's certification event. (REUTERS)

WASHINGTON – The federal government grounded Boeing's newest and most technologically advanced jetliner Wednesday, declaring that U.S. airlines cannot fly the 787 again until the risk of battery fires is addressed.

The Federal Aviation Administration's emergency order affects only United Airlines, the lone U.S. carrier to operate 787s. United said it would put passengers on other aircraft and work closely with the FAA and Boeing to review its fleet of six Dreamliners.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/16/faa-grounds-boeing-787s-to-address-risk-battery-fires/

[webfact]

U.S. grounds Dreamliners over fire risk

Washington (CNN) -- U.S. regulators Wednesday ordered airlines to stop flying their Boeing 787s until they can show they've fixed a fire risk linked to battery failures aboard the closely watched Dreamliners.

The move by the Federal Aviation Administration follows an emergency landing in Japan that prompted that country's two major airlines to ground their fleets of 787s, and a similar problem aboard a Dreamliner on the ground in Boston nine days earlier.

"The battery failures resulted in release of flammable electrolytes, heat damage, and smoke on two Model 787 airplanes," the FAA announced Wednesday evening. [more...]

Full story: http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_t1

-- CNN 2013-01-17

[WhizBang]

Is it not LiIon batteries, that we the humble paying public, are NOT allowed to place in our checked luggage due to their potential fire hazzard? If LiIon batteries are perceived as being so dangerous, why is Boeing using them in the aircraft?

[lomatopo]

Is it not LiIon batteries, that we the humble paying public, are NOT allowed to place in our checked luggage due to their potential fire hazzard? If LiIon batteries are perceived as being so dangerous, why is Boeing using them in the aircraft?

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

Jet fuel probably represents a potential fire hazard, and I assume we, the humble paying public are not allowed to carry it in our checked bags.

[UbonOz]

Just read the US has banned the 787 flying, another ANA 787 made an emergency landing yesterday in Japan.

[Thait Spot]

I think we've all seen cases online where lithium ion batteries ignite. Does anyone know how big these particular cells are?

Seems to occur when the membrane between the electrolytes is breached.

Are electric cars using them too?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[EyesWideOpen]

Somewhat ironic that the batteries are made in Japan.......... They are Yuasa batteries. Sad to see that

the massive outsourcing for 787 parts is not going well. Boeing should have done more in house.

Also scary to see that some 787 parts are made in China.

Edited January 17, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[astanhope]

These initial problems are not "show stoppers" and will be overcome without much difficulty.

This plane and those its engineering inspires are what will lead the industry for the next 40 to 60 years. There's never been any safer commercial aircraft.

These early crises are par for the course for such a big project. I predict most of us choosing Dreamliner flights over alternatives when given the choice within five years.

[kerrysum]

Just read the US has banned the 787 flying, another ANA 787 made an emergency landing yesterday in Japan.

Here is a good example of selling off scrap, it is our mistake, but you can buy it on the cheap...... \

kilosierra.... Let's face it t]\Thai Airways isn't exactly the airline of choice anymore.....

[theajarn]

Airbus is having a field day with its A380. I trust Airbus over Boeing anytime.

Unfortunately on my upcoming trip to the States, I only fly the A380 to Dubai... the rest of the way it'll be on a 777. At least the 777 has a good track record... O_O

[theajarn]

These initial problems are not "show stoppers" and will be overcome without much difficulty.

This plane and those its engineering inspires are what will lead the industry for the next 40 to 60 years. There's never been any safer commercial aircraft.

These early crises are par for the course for such a big project. I predict most of us choosing Dreamliner flights over alternatives when given the choice within five years.

Nah, I'll stick with the A380. Airbus seems to have a nicer record... despite that nasty engine explosion (caused by dodgy Rolls Royce engines).

[Card]

OMG, Thai Airways is already one of the unsafest airlines in the world. Couple this with (so far) one of the unsafest airplanes and we could be heading for a disaster or 2.

[spirit47]

"If it's Boeing, I'm not going"

The new "Electrical Power Conversion System" supplied by Thales from France, The System with Li-IO accus is not safety for an plane.

Then a few fuel leaks, and a broken window, they should testing without passengers...

[EyesWideOpen]

These initial problems are not "show stoppers" and will be overcome without much difficulty.

This plane and those its engineering inspires are what will lead the industry for the next 40 to 60 years. There's never been any safer commercial aircraft.

These early crises are par for the course for such a big project. I predict most of us choosing Dreamliner flights over alternatives when given the choice within five years.

Nah, I'll stick with the A380. Airbus seems to have a nicer record... despite that nasty engine explosion (caused by dodgy Rolls Royce engines).

If I were able to pick my in flight aircraft failure, I would certainly go for the minor problems of the 787, versus A380 engine explosions.....

So I will stick with the 787 if I get a chance to fly it.

[NanLaew]

The ANA 787's have been in service for at least 15 months. Seems a bit of a stretch for Boeing to be calling these some sort of 'teething' issues.

[Anon999]

These initial problems are not "show stoppers" and will be overcome without much difficulty.

There's never been any safer commercial aircraft.

Would you care to qualify that with some facts? You may find it very difficult.

[lomatopo]

These initial problems are not "show stoppers" and will be overcome without much difficulty.

There's never been any safer commercial aircraft.

Would you care to qualify that with some facts? You may find it very difficult.

Everyone probably has their own internal, unique measurement of the safety of any mode of transport. But by most accepted measurements the 787 has been in operation for 15 months, with a number of carriers, with tens of thousands of flight hours without any hull loss, or loss of life. Some might qualify that as safe, safer, perfect, etc.

Fuel leaks and cracked windshields are I think, not uncommon occurrences?

Re: outsourcing, Boeing successfully outsourced a lot of the 777 production.

BTW, the 777 has suffered two hull losses: the BA/LHR airframe was written off, as was one of EgyptAir's as a result of a cockpit fire while the plane was on the ground.

[Payboy]

Thai Airways: No Plan

Nothing surprising about that.

[Asiantravel]

Shouldn't the FAA have ascertained the safety of the lithium ion batteries before clearing the airplane for flight after years and years of delays?

The use of new battery technology is among the cost-saving features of the 787, which Boeing says burns 20 percent less fuel than rival jetliners using older technology.

[ginjag]

Shouldn't the FAA have ascertained the safety of the lithium ion batteries before clearing the airplane for flight after years and years of delays?

The use of new battery technology is among the cost-saving features of the 787, which Boeing says burns 20 percent less fuel than rival jetliners using older technology.

Neck and neck, Boeing/Airbus.....suppose both are pushing it to the limit to get the order numbers. just to say we are winning ???? this sometimes does tend to push the boat out too much when you want to bring in a new craft, yes sometimes TOO early, they call it competition.

Thai have over the last 10 years have done very little to get up to date, only now one or two new aircraft are being delivered...they have been leasing planes buying 2nd hand ones from top operetors, and not updating their old 747s from near 20 years ago.

Nisa I read said although the safety record was not so good "Thai had 8 years of profits yes in the black for all that time, so my question is Whwere has the money gone ???? High prices old fleet, and sour safety record ??? Say what you like I stick with Emirates and Etihad and internal--Air Asia

[PTG]

Thai Airways: No Plan

Nothing surprising about that.

I happen to like traveling on Thai as they offer direct flights, be it much more expensive, but that is a price I am happy to pay to avoid a double round of airport rent a cops. We are all different and I just hate them.

Most people are happy to fly on the Airbus A320 aren't they?

Remember the problems it had when it entered service, with the spectacular crashes it had? I reckon that the cuddly boys at Boeing will cuddle up and sort it our quick smart. After all, where would the world be without Boeing?

If it aint Boeing, I aint Going.

[ginjag]

Thai Airways: No Plan

Nothing surprising about that.

I happen to like traveling on Thai as they offer direct flights, be it much more expensive, but that is a price I am happy to pay to avoid a double round of airport rent a cops. We are all different and I just hate them.

Most people are happy to fly on the Airbus A320 aren't they?

Remember the problems it had when it entered service, with the spectacular crashes it had? I reckon that the cuddly boys at Boeing will cuddle up and sort it our quick smart. After all, where would the world be without Boeing?

If it aint Boeing, I aint Going.

we would no doubt be travelling on concord style planes---v.c 10s---comets.....the yanks were jealous of our concord thats why they never ordered it, but expect all to buy their planes.

this will open a can of worms,, but it is an answer to your final remark,

[spirit47]

These initial problems are not "show stoppers" and will be overcome without much difficulty.

This plane and those its engineering inspires are what will lead the industry for the next 40 to 60 years. There's never been any safer commercial aircraft.

These early crises are par for the course for such a big project. I predict most of us choosing Dreamliner flights over alternatives when given the choice within five years.

Nah, I'll stick with the A380. Airbus seems to have a nicer record... despite that nasty engine explosion (caused by dodgy Rolls Royce engines).

If I were able to pick my in flight aircraft failure, I would certainly go for the minor problems of the 787, versus A380 engine explosions.....

So I will stick with the 787 if I get a chance to fly it.

Sorry, but you must have a test-pilot licence to do this... Airbus A380 you can fly whenever you want...For me, the best Boing they ever build, was the 707, stable and 4 engines, but that is a long time ago...

[Anon999]

These initial problems are not "show stoppers" and will be overcome without much difficulty.

There's never been any safer commercial aircraft.

Would you care to qualify that with some facts? You may find it very difficult.

Everyone probably has their own internal, unique measurement of the safety of any mode of transport. But by most accepted measurements the 787 has been in operation for 15 months, with a number of carriers, with tens of thousands of flight hours without any hull loss, or loss of life. Some might qualify that as safe, safer, perfect, etc.

Fuel leaks and cracked windshields are I think, not uncommon occurrences?

Re: outsourcing, Boeing successfully outsourced a lot of the 777 production.

BTW, the 777 has suffered two hull losses: the BA/LHR airframe was written off, as was one of EgyptAir's as a result of a cockpit fire while the plane was on the ground.

To put the 787 into perspective it is still an infant, with relatively a handful of aircraft that have done 5 minutes flying and roughly once round the block. When it can come near to the leading 2 then you can think about making extravagant claims. Are you a Boeing shareholder or one of the workforce?

As you are unable to come up with some concrete evidence to support your claims the top 2 aircraft are listed below.

Commercial airliner safety is measured in fatalities/million flights not by " internal, unique measurement" whatever that may mean?

1. Boeing’s 777 aircraft is not the only major airplane in which no one has died in a crash, but it comes in at the top spot because it has flown more than 5.5 million flights.

Fatalities per million flights: 0.

2. Airbus A320 This French-German aircraft is one of the world’s best selling and considering the large number of airplanes that are still in operation, more than 4,600, its safety record is stellar.

Fatalities per million flights: 0.10

The next 2 safest have records of 0.11 and 0.12

As far as the "initial problems are not "show stoppers"" that may prove to be wrong as the Li-ion batteries are part of the design philosophy and may be a difficult problem to resolve.

If I fly on a 787 it will not be by choice or desire but whatever the airline is providing.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Anon999