Thai Militants Kill Teacher In School Canteen

[TheGhostWithin]

I stayed some time in all southern states and also in Kelantan, Kedah, and Perlis.. And if you compare the economic power of Kelantan with the economic power of i.e. Perlis, you probably know why Kelantan is such a poor state.

Let them folks in the south have their own land, let them pray towards mecca five times a day, close the borders, and lets see how they can live in peace and in accordance with God's will. These southern states will then also be the host of the Mujahideen Pattani Movement (BNP), the Pattani United Liberation Organization (former (PULO), the Pattani Islamic Mujahideen Movement (GMIP), the Mujahideen Islamic Pattani Group, the National Revolution Front (BRN), the Pattani Liberation National Front (BNPP), the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), the Runda Kumpulan Kecil (RKK). All those folks the will then be obsolete and could work for the good of the southern states or on the implementation of the Sharia, connect the states to Kelantan, or enjoy their holiday an the gulf coast. I wouldn't care.

By the way, "Buddhists" or better Thais from the north could acquire land legally according to Thai laws, but I doubt that even I would accept a law, which allows you to buy land which had been illegally annexed (1904) beforehand.

"They have their culture. Have you forgotten yours? [...]

..this is an interesting article, which might give you an insight of the history and implications of Thai politics in the south (it might take a little to load):

https://docs.google....XdRxlXxOT-dcHXw

I will get onto reading this article now. Thanks. It will make a good first morning read.

Afghanistan was a soverign state, it hosted Al Qaeda. We all know what happened there, Mr. Bin Laden and Mr. Al Zawahiri.

Pakistan is a soverign state, it once hosted Lashkar I Taiba and currently hosts the Afghan Taliban (under agreement of non-incursion in northwestern Waziristan and the Swat Valley, effectively allowing completely autonomous regions from the Patkistani system and operating under Sharia law).

Lebanon is a sovereign state, it hosts Hezbollah, which has control of large swathes of the southern part of the country closest to Israel and Gaza.

These three states all have full control of their territories, or at least once did. One of these countries has lost partial control of its' lands, another has lost complete authority to govern. There is not a single state in the world in which over the long term a hosting of militant Islamist movements allows them to "settle" and cease being a burdern and danger to nations and states close to them. Infact, history has proven in Afghanistan and Indonesia that such "non-interference" agreements further increase hostilities and terrorist activities in neighboring countries and states. Those militant movements you mentioned would simply start attacking the Islands to the north of the states, as well as provinces such as Trang, Satun and Surat Thani.

I too have been to the northern states in Malaysia, and had a knife pulled to my throat along the way, by a man dressed in an Islamic cloak. I was told, before he knew anything about me, that I was a Christian American, and that Malaysia was a Muslim country for Muslims, and I should leave or die. This whilst he held a carving knife to my neck. Understand that no matter what you do, because you are white, because you do not dress like them or think like them, you are, and always will be, their sworn enemy. You may think you are their friend, but the notion of friend to them simply means "person whom has a use to gain leverage over the infidels".

Again, I ask you to show me a single scholarly article which confirms land was seized by Bhuddists from Muslims in any of the southern states of Thailand. The land was purchased from Muslims, and now they want their land back (nearly for free, after they have killed everyone else in the land owners family). Here is one example, there are many others: http://quitenormal.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/islamists-murder-villages-last-remaining-buddhist-couple-and-their-2-children-in-southern-thailand/

[JDGRUEN]

As we all know, our social, mental, intellectual, and physical existence is being formed by the society we live in, by the education and influences we do receive and process. Therefore we, or the politicians in charge, have to recognize the heritage and culture of the people living in the South when negotiating with them. The bitter hatred will not disappear by shooting more bullets from either side. Peace can only be installed by considering the past history of the people in the South, by stopping the forced economic disparity, by giving them their cultural identity back, as well as the sole responsibility of their natural resources, and some of their occupied land. The South is the Tibet of Thailand, just for those, who do not understand.

I do not mean to be rude, but have you ever been to the Southern States of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat?

The first thing you will notice, as that 90% of women are wearing head scarves. The second thing you will notice, is that the Thai written and spoken language is rarely used. The third thing you will notice, is that everyone stares at you - it is not just because you are a foreigner. It is because you are not one of them.

As you drive through the south, you will notice huge Mosques' along the sides of the road. I can assure you, the Muslim inhabitants of the south have their cultural identity. They have never lost it.

Government schools, which are shared by Bhuddist students and Muslim students alike, as well as Police stations, are guarded by armed guards and often barricaded with sand bagged forward military positions.

It is a crime to lose your cultural identity under sharia law, in converting to another religion. It is not allowed to marry into a Muslim family without yourself first converting to Islam. You then must confirm to the cultural identity of the South. No buildings taller than 2 stories, little industry and subservience by all women to the wills of men. They have their culture.

What they want is for the so called "occupation" to end, and the right to excommunicate members of the Buddhist community from the lands of the south. It has never been disputed (at least that I am aware of) that Buddhists legally obtained their lands, however are now being forced off with acts of terror in fear for the lives of their families. This, because they do not confirm to the beliefs of Islam. If they were good people serious about semi-autonomy, they would work hard and ensure they could get high up enough in Political circles to set wheels in motion. They have not, and are not trying to accomplish this. Their resistance is not over land, it is over religion.

They have their culture. Have you forgotten yours? Or is your modern day liberalism so entrenched in your own mind that you are ready to sell your soul to appease the apparent victimised every time someone claims to be a victim? Or are you so weak that you now see yourself as a servant to someone you fear? I assure you, given enough ground, you would eventually find a jihadi at your door, mortar through your roof, or car bomb through your work foyer.

No other civilized country with a strong modern military would stand for acts of terrorism against any of its' population (regardless of the excuse), by the way. If the government were not forcing back the hand of the army, I am sure that in time, things would be much better for those willing to contribute to the good of the country.

I stayed some time in all southern states and also in Kelantan, Kedah, and Perlis.. And if you compare the economic power of Kelantan with the economic power of i.e. Perlis, you probably know why Kelantan is such a poor state.

Let them folks in the south have their own land, let them pray towards mecca five times a day, close the borders, and lets see how they can live in peace and in accordance with God's will. These southern states will then also be the host of the Mujahideen Pattani Movement (BNP), the Pattani United Liberation Organization (former (PULO), the Pattani Islamic Mujahideen Movement (GMIP), the Mujahideen Islamic Pattani Group, the National Revolution Front (BRN), the Pattani Liberation National Front (BNPP), the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), the Runda Kumpulan Kecil (RKK). All those folks the will then be obsolete and could work for the good of the southern states or on the implementation of the Sharia, connect the states to Kelantan, or enjoy their holiday an the gulf coast. I wouldn't care.

By the way, "Buddhists" or better Thais from the north could acquire land legally according to Thai laws, but I doubt that even I would accept a law, which allows you to buy land which had been illegally annexed (1904) beforehand.

"They have their culture. Have you forgotten yours? [...]

..this is an interesting article, which might give you an insight of the history and implications of Thai politics in the south (it might take a little to load):

https://docs.google....XdRxlXxOT-dcHXw

1904 huh? Really ... this is the totality of Siam / Thailand's control over this area ... No prior history you imply - correct ? Well - maybe you left out a few hundred years of history ...

Since before the days of the Melaka Sultanate, the Malay States of the northern peninsula - Patani, Keciah, Kelantan, Trengganu and Perak - had always been considered by Siam as its tributaries... Rama I established the Chakri dynasty, which was to rule Siam to this day... in 1785, a resurgent Siam turned its attention to its increasingly insubordinate southern subjects.... Rama I's son, Prince Surasi, attacked Patani. Sultan Muhammad was slain in battle and 4,000 Patani Malays were brought in chains to Bangkok as slaves...

Perhaps you ought to do a little more reading ...

http://www.sabrizain...alaya/kedah.htm

Edited January 26, 2013 by Scott
Edited for fair use.

[wolf5370]

Sadly there are two wars that can never be won..... against drugs and religious fanatics.

Beg to differ: the war against drugs could be lessened, if drugs were legal, and social services were left to deal with druggies. It's more complicated than that, but there doesn't need to be a 'war on drugs.'

The killing in the OP is despicable, plus it will emotionally scar all those kids (and others) who witnessed it. Here's a suggestion which may only help a bit: trained dogs which can sniff out weapons and ammmo. I also suggest small groups of armed authorities go with such dogs - to villages where suspected terrorists hole up, and do searches, house to house.

Is there any place in Thailand where dogs are being trained to detect explosives/weapons? I doubt it, as it's too far 'outside the box' for Thais to consider.

Bringing dogs into the homes of muslims is considered to be offensive, OTOH there are many things that offend them and the list grows longer every day.

I would think that successful sniffer dogs would be even more offensive. Perhaps a trained goat.

or pig

[wolf5370]

I don't have sympathy for the Muslims in this situation even though they have been the indigenous people of that area for a very long time. This is fairly unique among the numerous jihadist uprisings worldwide. But, I am still not sympathetic primarily because of the cultural attitude Muslims display that 'we can kill you and it is okay - but if you kill back - we are outraged...

This enraged illogical craziness is going on in Gaza, the West Bank, in Western Burma, in a dozen countries in Africa, in India, China, much of Western Europe, Russia, the U.K. and many other places. Not all these countries have gratuitous violence going on - but the strategy is much the same. Establish a presence (or revive old grievances), increase the numbers, become outraged at every 'slight' that comes about as done by a non believer, insist on isolation from the greater community, insist on their own laws, etc. Then scream out that everyone else is the problem.

Please note: Muslim separatist extremists kill Muslim teachers in the contested south of Thailand - that is - those Muslim teachers who teach in Thai Government Public Schools. The extremists' reasoning is that such Muslim teachers have chosen to endorse and support the Thai Government by teaching in a government school. Thus they have to be made an example. Buddhists in the area have not been killing Buddhist teachers.

If the Thai Government takes the path of appeasement - giving in to the poor pitiful trod upon Muslims in Southern Thailand - then in about ten years from the date of concession the Thai Government will be sitting in Hua Hin negotiation a settlement for every square kilometer south of Sam Roi Yot to 50 kilometers past Surant Thani. The end game for the 'Separatists' is not separation but rather long term conquest ... the same as in all the other countries where these malcontents have established themselves.

Well said it is documented many times by Muslim Imen that there goal is to rule the world. If you give them an inch they will take a mile. Unlike the Catholic Church of the medevil times they are continuing to try to take over the world. I believe the only thing that could have stopped them was the mongols but they ceased the attack when Ghengas Khan died and then renewed it against china and let the Muslims off the hook.

You got that wrong, many of the Mongol rulers were Muslims

That was long after Genghis Khan died. None of them were Muslims while he was alive they were to busy killing Muslims and doing a thorough job of it. All because some dip sh-t Muslim leader sent back the heads of the envoy's Genghis had sent for trade. He pulled his hordes out of China and started in on the Muslim's. It is estimated that he killed 25% of the worlds population. there is still discussion on that figure. Some of the leaders could have been Buddhists they had been in China and had many years of run ins with them as well as some trading with them. Genghis was not particular what religion or no religion you belonged to.

Yes the sacking of Urgench was the bloodiest of all time - over a million killed (some say he killed every man, woman and child in Persia that could not flee in time). I think a lot of that was due to the in fighting of the Kwarzemien Empire (basically each city was run by "generals" like little princedoms) - not sure if the success might have been continued on through Iran to the holy lands - whole different can of worms.

[cgphuket]

Looks like time to put more ex-military security in the schools. And by that I mean real soldiers; American, UK, Aussie,Canadian, EU... We have seen how effective Thai military and security guards are...

[Locationthailand]

Thai's retaliating for the recent murder of Thai school teachers. An eye for an eye as etched in their psyche. If Islam wants a chance at all, it has to stop those in violence and then the Thai's will back down but they will not give over land won in historic battles or seizure. The communities can live in harmony but the Muslim population must give up their separatists or get them to stand down from this idiotic hatred or this will be simply continuing and ongoing. It has to start within the Muslim communities, as dictating garbage and rules from Bangkok gets nowhere.

I don't quite follow you here. What murder were they retaliating for. All the murders are done by the Muslims them selves. They are not always picky about who they get unless it is another Muslim teaching a different brand of their ignorance.

The murders have been going on from both Thai and Muslim.

[Locationthailand]

As we all know, our social, mental, intellectual, and physical existence is being formed by the society we live in, by the education and influences we do receive and process. Therefore we, or the politicians in charge, have to recognize the heritage and culture of the people living in the South when negotiating with them. The bitter hatred will not disappear by shooting more bullets from either side. Peace can only be installed by considering the past history of the people in the South, by stopping the forced economic disparity, by giving them their cultural identity back, as well as the sole responsibility of their natural resources, and some of their occupied land. The South is the Tibet of Thailand, just for those, who do not understand.

I do not mean to be rude, but have you ever been to the Southern States of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat?

The first thing you will notice, as that 90% of women are wearing head scarves. The second thing you will notice, is that the Thai written and spoken language is rarely used. The third thing you will notice, is that everyone stares at you - it is not just because you are a foreigner. It is because you are not one of them.

As you drive through the south, you will notice huge Mosques' along the sides of the road. I can assure you, the Muslim inhabitants of the south have their cultural identity. They have never lost it.

Government schools, which are shared by Bhuddist students and Muslim students alike, as well as Police stations, are guarded by armed guards and often barricaded with sand bagged forward military positions.

It is a crime to lose your cultural identity under sharia law, in converting to another religion. It is not allowed to marry into a Muslim family without yourself first converting to Islam. You then must confirm to the cultural identity of the South. No buildings taller than 2 stories, little industry and subservience by all women to the wills of men. They have their culture.

What they want is for the so called "occupation" to end, and the right to excommunicate members of the Buddhist community from the lands of the south. It has never been disputed (at least that I am aware of) that Buddhists legally obtained their lands, however are now being forced off with acts of terror in fear for the lives of their families. This, because they do not confirm to the beliefs of Islam. If they were good people serious about semi-autonomy, they would work hard and ensure they could get high up enough in Political circles to set wheels in motion. They have not, and are not trying to accomplish this. Their resistance is not over land, it is over religion.

They have their culture. Have you forgotten yours? Or is your modern day liberalism so entrenched in your own mind that you are ready to sell your soul to appease the apparent victimised every time someone claims to be a victim? Or are you so weak that you now see yourself as a servant to someone you fear? I assure you, given enough ground, you would eventually find a jihadi at your door, mortar through your roof, or car bomb through your work foyer.

No other civilized country with a strong modern military would stand for acts of terrorism against any of its' population (regardless of the excuse), by the way. If the government were not forcing back the hand of the army, I am sure that in time, things would be much better for those willing to contribute to the good of the country.

A good explanation and well done. The issues are always based on beliefs behind the word 'religion'. From time immemorial and until the gradual evolution or formal 'religions' in BC times, belief has been a way of human existence, be it real or imposed. As this has now become factious and become rule of law, society has adopted it, and like in all religions, many within to the point of fanaticism. And as you correctly say, acts of terrorism such as this would not be tolerated in any other 'civilised' country. But humans at large like to belong, be part if a community, and by placing a name to it and an image to authenticate it, it becomes a fabric to continue to live with.

I have no doubts a man called an intelligent 'prophet' lived by the name Muhammed, of even a man who was a carpenter called Jesus, similarly the Buddha who started it all in the Ajanta Caves in India. Da Vinci was never named a prophet but perhaps like many others throughout history, should have. Now this 'fabric' that jointly holds and divides our societies is firmly embedded in the psyche of billions, they justify their reasons for trying to force their wills on others and in many cases, defending it to the death. The books of all faiths have been written by humans, not some god and every time a revision, like all publications, revisions make changes. As with the army quip in the trenches regarding communications taught to British troops in WWI of the essential understanding "Bring reinforcements, we're going to advance" - by the end of the line became "Bring three and fourpence, we're going to a dance". Clearly the originators of these books would well be far removed from what is written these days. Thus religion has become IMO a belief a fabrication.

As with the case of Islam, and Mecca, the pilgrimage to worship a black rock (cast down from the heavens) sorry, not for me - and for this they wish to kill? Very pagan. The a carpenter whose whole youth from the time of a baby until his reappearance amongst the tax collectors and never leaving a written word (ever see a carpenter without a pencil?) also not for me. I think Buddhism is a lesser 'religion' and more a way of life. Yes, rules to live by, but they are common sense. I think most of how we live our lives is by what was indoctrinated into us in our early years. I know mine is of that nature and thanks to my deceased parents. I certainly don't need anyone to tell me to attend a community house (church, mosque, temple etc) and be told to toe-the-line.

Back on issue, the factions in conflict are using religion as the excuse. Education could in fact help this a lot and that to me appears to be the issue. Bt including religious instruction as part of education is pushing the envelope. I hope somehow there will be a balance as take away the religious threat and we simply have people living in communities and probably, harmony. I am sure all those who need their religions will not agree with me and I have probably upset many, but it is their choice. Sadly it will continue as the status quo.

[JDGRUEN]

Thai's retaliating for the recent murder of Thai school teachers. An eye for an eye as etched in their psyche. If Islam wants a chance at all, it has to stop those in violence and then the Thai's will back down but they will not give over land won in historic battles or seizure. The communities can live in harmony but the Muslim population must give up their separatists or get them to stand down from this idiotic hatred or this will be simply continuing and ongoing. It has to start within the Muslim communities, as dictating garbage and rules from Bangkok gets nowhere.

I don't quite follow you here. What murder were they retaliating for. All the murders are done by the Muslims them selves. They are not always picky about who they get unless it is another Muslim teaching a different brand of their ignorance.

The murders have been going on from both Thai and Muslim.

By in large - the Buddhists have not been murdering Buddhists ... The Muslims on the other hand have been killing both.

[Scott]

Off-topic discussion about Islam has been deleted.

[Tanaka]

R.I.P. what a stupid and tragic loss...

It begs three questions:

1) why?

2) Why?

3) WHY?

Is it evil for someone to teach maths, according to the Qur'an?

Why the XXXX are they killing kids and teachers? What point are they trying to make?

If you could ask one of those brave he-men, I doubt you would get an understandable answer.

[fxe1200]

As we all know, our social, mental, intellectual, and physical existence is being formed by the society we live in, by the education and influences we do receive and process. Therefore we, or the politicians in charge, have to recognize the heritage and culture of the people living in the South when negotiating with them. The bitter hatred will not disappear by shooting more bullets from either side. Peace can only be installed by considering the past history of the people in the South, by stopping the forced economic disparity, by giving them their cultural identity back, as well as the sole responsibility of their natural resources, and some of their occupied land. The South is the Tibet of Thailand, just for those, who do not understand.

I do not mean to be rude, but have you ever been to the Southern States of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat?

The first thing you will notice, as that 90% of women are wearing head scarves. The second thing you will notice, is that the Thai written and spoken language is rarely used. The third thing you will notice, is that everyone stares at you - it is not just because you are a foreigner. It is because you are not one of them.

As you drive through the south, you will notice huge Mosques' along the sides of the road. I can assure you, the Muslim inhabitants of the south have their cultural identity. They have never lost it.

Government schools, which are shared by Bhuddist students and Muslim students alike, as well as Police stations, are guarded by armed guards and often barricaded with sand bagged forward military positions.

It is a crime to lose your cultural identity under sharia law, in converting to another religion. It is not allowed to marry into a Muslim family without yourself first converting to Islam. You then must confirm to the cultural identity of the South. No buildings taller than 2 stories, little industry and subservience by all women to the wills of men. They have their culture.

What they want is for the so called "occupation" to end, and the right to excommunicate members of the Buddhist community from the lands of the south. It has never been disputed (at least that I am aware of) that Buddhists legally obtained their lands, however are now being forced off with acts of terror in fear for the lives of their families. This, because they do not confirm to the beliefs of Islam. If they were good people serious about semi-autonomy, they would work hard and ensure they could get high up enough in Political circles to set wheels in motion. They have not, and are not trying to accomplish this. Their resistance is not over land, it is over religion.

They have their culture. Have you forgotten yours? Or is your modern day liberalism so entrenched in your own mind that you are ready to sell your soul to appease the apparent victimised every time someone claims to be a victim? Or are you so weak that you now see yourself as a servant to someone you fear? I assure you, given enough ground, you would eventually find a jihadi at your door, mortar through your roof, or car bomb through your work foyer.

No other civilized country with a strong modern military would stand for acts of terrorism against any of its' population (regardless of the excuse), by the way. If the government were not forcing back the hand of the army, I am sure that in time, things would be much better for those willing to contribute to the good of the country.

I stayed some time in all southern states and also in Kelantan, Kedah, and Perlis.. And if you compare the economic power of Kelantan with the economic power of i.e. Perlis, you probably know why Kelantan is such a poor state.

Let them folks in the south have their own land, let them pray towards mecca five times a day, close the borders, and lets see how they can live in peace and in accordance with God's will. These southern states will then also be the host of the Mujahideen Pattani Movement (BNP), the Pattani United Liberation Organization (former (PULO), the Pattani Islamic Mujahideen Movement (GMIP), the Mujahideen Islamic Pattani Group, the National Revolution Front (BRN), the Pattani Liberation National Front (BNPP), the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), the Runda Kumpulan Kecil (RKK). All those folks the will then be obsolete and could work for the good of the southern states or on the implementation of the Sharia, connect the states to Kelantan, or enjoy their holiday an the gulf coast. I wouldn't care.

By the way, "Buddhists" or better Thais from the north could acquire land legally according to Thai laws, but I doubt that even I would accept a law, which allows you to buy land which had been illegally annexed (1904) beforehand.

"They have their culture. Have you forgotten yours? [...]

..this is an interesting article, which might give you an insight of the history and implications of Thai politics in the south (it might take a little to load):

https://docs.google....XdRxlXxOT-dcHXw

1904 huh? Really ... this is the totality of Siam / Thailand's control over this area ... No prior history you imply - correct ? Well - maybe you left out a few hundred years of history ...

Since before the days of the Melaka Sultanate, the Malay States of the northern peninsula - Patani, Keciah, Kelantan, Trengganu and Perak - had always been considered by Siam as its tributaries... Rama I established the Chakri dynasty, which was to rule Siam to this day... in 1785, a resurgent Siam turned its attention to its increasingly insubordinate southern subjects.... Rama I's son, Prince Surasi, attacked Patani. Sultan Muhammad was slain in battle and 4,000 Patani Malays were brought in chains to Bangkok as slaves...

Perhaps you ought to do a little more reading ...

http://www.sabrizain...alaya/kedah.htm

Yes, I left out a couple of hundreds of the history of Thailand and Malaysia, as this forum is not intended to copy and paste all the history. I leave it to everyone to read the history of South East Asia back to the Early hominids. Therefore I only referred to the annexation starting 1902 with Patani and the Anglo-Siamese-Treaty 1909.

[JDGRUEN]

fxe1200, said:

Yes, I left out a couple of hundreds of the history of Thailand and Malaysia, as this forum is not intended to copy and paste all the history. I leave it to everyone to read the history of South East Asia back to the Early hominids. Therefore I only referred to the annexation starting 1902 with Patani and the Anglo-Siamese-Treaty 1909.

But the actual history of hundreds of years before, showing Siam's long term sovereignty claim over the territory, makes your victim hood claim of the much more recent annexation totally irrelevant. It would be like the British claiming the ownership of the American Colonies after the Revolutionary War... it if makes one feel good then do it ... but it is pretty silly and contradictory to the facts .

[simple1]

fxe1200, said:

Yes, I left out a couple of hundreds of the history of Thailand and Malaysia, as this forum is not intended to copy and paste all the history. I leave it to everyone to read the history of South East Asia back to the Early hominids. Therefore I only referred to the annexation starting 1902 with Patani and the Anglo-Siamese-Treaty 1909.

But the actual history of hundreds of years before, showing Siam's long term sovereignty claim over the territory, makes your victim hood claim of the much more recent annexation totally irrelevant. It would be like the British claiming the ownership of the American Colonies after the Revolutionary War... it if makes one feel good then do it ... but it is pretty silly and contradictory to the facts .

But the fact is at the time of the 1909 treaty the three southern states were British Malaya territory The resident Malays were not consulted on the transfer of territory to Thai sovereignty and was primarily geopolitical strategy by the British in countering French influence in the region.

You should let the Thai government know about irrelevant timelines in history. A few days ago the Thai English language media reported that Thai officials have said the UK has some ownership of the Rohingya refugee and should assist as they imported them for labour from what is now known as Bangladesh to Burma.

[JemJem]

Sadly there are two wars that can never be won..... against drugs and religious fanatics.

Both types of wars CAN be won (at least, 'won to a great extent') but it is very very difficult and so many lives, including those of innocent ones, would unfortunately have to be lost.