Bullets May Have Come From Both Sides

[Lite Beer]

Bullets may have come from both sides

Opas Boonlom

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- As per the Criminal Court's inquest into the death of five redshirt supporters during the armed dispersal of protesters in May 2010, bullets from the troops' side had killed the first four.

However, in the fifth case, the court said it could not determine which side the bullets came from. The inquest into the first four cases started with that of Phan Kamkong and the fifth, inconclusive case is that of Boonmee Rermsuk.

Here is a comparison of Phan and Boonmee's cases:

Site of death:

Phan: A restricted area on Ratchaprarob Road marked as a livebullet zone.

Boonmee: Bon Kai community near the ThaiBelgium overpass on Rama IV Road.

Bullets:

Phan: A round of .223 bullets.

Boonmee: A round of .223 bullets.

Ruling:

Phan: The so called "men in black" were not present at the time of the shooting and there were no reports of a gunfight.

A witness testified that he heard the military warning a van not to enter the restricted area. Phan was then seen running out, before the sound of gunfire was heard. Then Phan was seen returning to the building, yelling he had been shot before he collapsed.

Boonmee: In a transcribed statement, Boonmee allegedly said he was shot at from where the troops were deployed. However, according to a video clip presented in court, Boonmee was heard making this claim but there was no way to verify the statement was transcribed.

Phan: Witness Komsanti Thongmak, a member of the Nation Channel news crew, testified that he filmed the incident when the military issued a warning at the van before shooting at it with assault rifles.

Boonmee: A witness from the Channel 7 news crew recorded a gunfight between soldiers and protesters.

Phan: A photograph of the van showed signs of bullets being fired from different types of weapons. A forensic check on Phan revealed he was shot in the right arm by a round of .223 bullets, the same type of bullet found embedded in the liver of the van's driver.

Boonmee: Hit by a round of .223 bullets used in assault rifles - the type of bullets that also injured soldiers. Hence, there is cause to suspect that the troops were not the only ones armed with assault rifles.

Thus, the inquest concluded that though a round of .223 bullets hit Boonmee, it could not be determined which side was responsible for his death.

-- The Nation 2013-01-27

[dcutman]

Lets not these mention the hundreds of video clips and eye witness accounts of the reds shirts carrying, using and proudly displaying these assault weapons.

Bullets may have come from both sides

Why do they keep saying this? Is there really any doubt? Really!

[dcutman]

<<the armed dispersal of protesters>>

what a nice sympathetic manner to describe an all out 6 day military assault on a protest site.

Yes, excellent point. One does have to wonder why it would take a 6 day, military assault to clear out unarmed, peaceful protesters. I can only assume the slow progress was caused by advanced troops firing back towards their own comrades.

[Locationthailand]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

[tominbkk]

<<the armed dispersal of protesters>>

what a nice sympathetic manner to describe an all out 6 day military assault on a protest site.

The 'protest' daily advocated terroristic attacks on the city of Bangkok, ambushed and held hostage patients in a hospital, barricaded a multitude of city blocks, chased and killed innocent citizens in a market in their 'territory', and hundreds of other 'terroristic' actions. To call them 'protestors' is to have your head buried very deep in the sand.

[noitom]

Just think whenever you read about this over and over ad nauseam, it is taxpayer money paying these folks to puff and bluster round and round. Taxpayer money would be far better spent providing health and dental care and better education to poor Thais. Thais and the newspaper should take issue in public forums about the waste of taxpayer money paying these phony investigators.

[whybother]

<<the armed dispersal of protesters>>

what a nice sympathetic manner to describe an all out 6 day military assault on a protest site.

Yes, it should have been described as "the armed dispersal of armed protesters" shouldn't it.

[oldsailor35]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

[potters]

<<the armed dispersal of protesters>>

what a nice sympathetic manner to describe an all out 6 day military assault on a protest site.

The 'protest' daily advocated terroristic attacks on the city of Bangkok, ambushed and held hostage patients in a hospital, barricaded a multitude of city blocks, chased and killed innocent citizens in a market in their 'territory', and hundreds of other 'terroristic' actions. To call them 'protestors' is to have your head buried very deep in the sand.

I agree totally with you.

They were given every opportunity to disperse but redused.

Intimidated ordinary folk wanting to go about there daily routines.

The destruction they caused.

How many people lost their jobs.

How many lives did they ruin?

Do they care?

I remember watching a video of a soldier surrendering and then

he was dragged from his truck and shot.

.

[whybother]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

Most western countries would respond to armed protesters with armed police.

[jamhar]

Note to self:

Dont talk politics in TL

religion is a MUCH safer subject!

[Locationthailand]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

When the Reds threw live bullets then why would the army respond in rubber? Grenades also were pitched, so let's respond with rubber again. Then blockades with 'rubber' tyres doused in fuel, and oh let's not forget the sharpened bamboo and petrol in M150 bottles. Yep, REDS were very peaceful - especially after they started burning things. So let's respond with rubber ... Get real!

[hellodolly]

<<the armed dispersal of protesters>>

what a nice sympathetic manner to describe an all out 6 day military assault on a protest site.

Be interesting to hear your definition of protest. How does urging people to burn buildings down fit in to your idea of a protest.

Did you go to red shirt school for your knowledge. If so I bet you got a score of 100%.

Edited January 27, 2013 by hellodolly

[hellodolly]

Just think whenever you read about this over and over ad nauseam, it is taxpayer money paying these folks to puff and bluster round and round. Taxpayer money would be far better spent providing health and dental care and better education to poor Thais. Thais and the newspaper should take issue in public forums about the waste of taxpayer money paying these phony investigators.

I agree 100%.

These incompetent people in control now don't care about the people all they care about is themselves and how they look. they have no problem bending the truth and out right lieing to make them selves look good. Look at one of the red shirts earlier post he/she was claiming the armed with rocket launcher hospital invading red shirts were protesters. How ludicrous can you get and yet they will never admit that they were terrorists as it is not conductive to looking good, Besides that they would be out of office and Thailand would have some one who cares a little more about Thailand in office. Maybe not a lot more but the focus on one man would not be the focus of all they do.

[philw]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

The indiscriminate use of live ammunition................

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

[culicine]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

Most western countries would respond to armed protesters with armed police.

Most western countries don't have police of the caliber of the Thai police force though

[culicine]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

The indiscriminate use of live ammunition................

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

I hope you are including all red/black shirts who used live weapons too:) Don't tell me there is no evidence of that.... Can't have double standards can we...

[beano2274]

If a verbal warning was given then that is it, case over. The reporters said they heard a verbal warning so end of story.

Soldiers are required to give a verbal warning before firing, most people in here would know and agree with this.

[Locationthailand]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

The indiscriminate use of live ammunition................

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

Phil I think the indiscriminate use of ammunition started with reds and escalated. I doubt there will ever be anything other than finger pointing. The ubiquitous men in black have never really been acknowledged or in fact had anyone go looking for them. It is all (sadly) a situation where it will continue as muck raking but most unlikely to ever be resolved. I (personally) would like to see those inciting the riot and burning, being held to book. It's okay to protest but not okay to destroy (and kill).

[Thaddeus]

If the phrase "beyond reasonable doubt" was applied in this country, most of the accusations raised would fall apart like wet toilet paper.

[Buchholz]

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

Thaksin Skypes

.

[siampolee]

The indiscriminate use of live ammunition................

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

One can but hope that justice will be done, however why are many of the leaders of the Red Shirt movement still at liberty and not even accused of stoking the fires of civil strife ?

One can only suppose that the puppet master has ordered that his Red Shirt stooge puppets remain free until it suits him to have them pulled in to eliminate any possible impediment to his aims..

[philw]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

The indiscriminate use of live ammunition................

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

Phil I think the indiscriminate use of ammunition started with reds and escalated. I doubt there will ever be anything other than finger pointing. The ubiquitous men in black have never really been acknowledged or in fact had anyone go looking for them. It is all (sadly) a situation where it will continue as muck raking but most unlikely to ever be resolved. I (personally) would like to see those inciting the riot and burning, being held to book. It's okay to protest but not okay to destroy (and kill).

Generally I am inclined to agree with your sentiments, however the fact remains that there is almost no evidence that those shot by the the military were actually armed.

No pictures of bodies with guns and no statements from, or interviews with, those doing the shooting or their officers, to the effect that they fired at armed protesters.

Why the silence ?

On the contrary, there are many witness statements and so far about 5 coroners reports, to the effect that persons shot were not armed.

I think there has been one arrest of a "man in black" and this despite a cordoned off area, the presence of about 30,000 troops and god knows how many cops and other security forces.

If there was any real of evidence of the 500 heavily armed " men in black", do you not think it could have come to light by now ??

Given the intense need for such evidence to stop further speculation.

I also agree with your final and penultimate sentence.

Both sides should be brought to account.

[philw]

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

Thaksin Skypes

.

Nice pic of a man using a telephone.

Not exactly a rare occurrence.

Does you photo collection extend to a pic of a person holding a pen or pencil ???

If so, do please share.

[whybother]

Generally I am inclined to agree with your sentiments, however the fact remains that there is almost no evidence that those shot by the the military were actually armed.

No pictures of bodies with guns and no statements from, or interviews with, those doing the shooting or their officers, to the effect that they fired at armed protesters.

Why the silence ?

On the contrary, there are many witness statements and so far about 5 coroners reports, to the effect that persons shot were not armed.

I think there has been one arrest of a "man in black" and this despite a cordoned off area, the presence of about 30,000 troops and god knows how many cops and other security forces.

If there was any real of evidence of the 500 heavily armed " men in black", do you not think it could have come to light by now ??

Given the intense need for such evidence to stop further speculation.

I also agree with your final and penultimate sentence.

Both sides should be brought to account.

What "cordoned off area"? Do you mean the cordoned off area that the red shirts were allowed to bring truck loads of tyres through?

[siampolee]

On the contrary, there are many witness statements and so far about 5 coroners reports, to the effect that persons shot were not armed.

As an aside to the matter.

,In combat situations and the resultant casualty and body count one invariably did not find arms or ammunition with the casualties

This was in the main due to such weaponry and ammunition being collected by the fleeing survivors in order to maintain their or the bodies. arsenals.

Often not even I.D. documents, street warfare like any guerrilla warfare is indeed a clandestine operation concerning who and what.

[Mosha]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

What western countries police would have sat there with there thumbs up there &lt;deleted&gt; while the protests crippled part of a capital city?

[dcutman]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

The indiscriminate use of live ammunition................

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

Gee Phil you finally slipped out of those all to tight fitting red underpants, that have been depriving sufficient blood flow to your frontal lobe and have been clouding you judgement for so long. Those redshirt terrorists in command already have pending cases in the courts, I, like you now, do hope that all these criminals will be brought to justice.

[noni99]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

It's a shame that the red-villages also have internet-connection. Otherwise I wouldn't see comments like yours.

Bastardly order - hahahahaha. I am sure, you don't know what you are talking about.

There were also civilian (unarmed) protestors, but they are stupid when they don't leave the scene (they had many weeks time to do so) when they realise that they are on the same side with heavily armed terrorists.

Don't you know, what was going on before the army did what they finally had to do (and the western armies would have done this weeks before).

[philw]

Som num na, they got what they deserved. No city in the world would have been as tolerant as long as this one was, before finally having to relieve Bangkok of these people. First negotiation, offers of settlement (which were ignored), then requests to disperse, then demands to vacate, and finally military - what did they expect? Try laying siege to any western country and see what the police will do. No sympathy from me that's for sure.

They would be using RUBBER bullets and TEAR Gas, NOT live ammunition. For goodness sake, which western country would turn their army loose on civillian protesters with live ammunition. That is criminal respective of how long the protests had been running. Surely somebody has to answer for this bastardly order.

The indiscriminate use of live ammunition................

Those responsible and in command will, I hope, eventually be brought to court.

From the top down.

Gee Phil you finally slipped out of those all to tight fitting red underpants, that have been depriving sufficient blood flow to your frontal lobe and have been clouding you judgement for so long. Those redshirt terrorists in command already have pending cases in the courts, I, like you now, do hope that all these criminals will be brought to justice.

Nearly right, but never mind............