Locked Up In Cambodia....

[chuchok]

NZ ambassador to go to Cambodia to discuss Cleghorn's case

26.02.06 1.00pm

New Zealand's ambassador to Thailand has asked to meet with senior Cambodian officials to discuss why an appeal on behalf of a jailed New Zealander went ahead without the man's knowledge.

Former aid worker Graham Cleghorn, 55, was jailed in February 2004 and is being held in Phnom Penh's Prey Sar prison.

He is serving 20 years for the rape of five teenage girls -- a conviction he has said he is innocent of.

National Radio tonight reported that several weeks ago an appeal had been heard in Cambodia on behalf of Cleghorn, yet he was not notified.

The unsuccessful appeal did not allow Cleghorn to present written statements from all five women he was convicted of raping which stated the sex crimes didn't take place.

The New Zealand Government had already raised concerns at the way Cleghorn's trial was handled.

It took only nine hours, he was refused a translator, and denied the right to call his own witnesses and cross-examine prosecution witnesses.

Ambassador Peter Rider has since approached the Cambodian Embassy in Thailand to outline New Zealand's concerns about the legal processes surrounding Cleghorn's case, while requesting appointments with Cambodia's minister of court of appeal and justice minister.

He has said he will travel to Cambodia as soon as the appointments have been confirmed, reported National Radio.

- NZPA

[thaibebop]

You think he will really be able to help? Seems to me the minute a western country tells, suggests, even hints at something the Asia country should, they don't do it.

[Jai Dee]

You think he will really be able to help? Seems to me the minute a western country tells, suggests, even hints at something the Asia country should, they don't do it.

Something to do with "face"...

[thaibebop]

You think he will really be able to help? Seems to me the minute a western country tells, suggests, even hints at something the Asia country should, they don't do it.

Something to do with "face"...

See what you do? I try to do a little face saving, by not coming out and just saying it like a Baa Falang and you step in a blow it!

I expected better of you JaiDee.

[chuchok]

You think he will really be able to help? Seems to me the minute a western country tells, suggests, even hints at something the Asia country should, they don't do it.

Being a diplomat and already working in Thailand, Peter Rider will be no fool and fully aware of the system/situation. Diplomats normally speak a language that is hard for us mere mortals to understand.It will be interesting to see outcome.

Graham Cleghorn has obviously pissed off somebody big ........

[thaibebop]

You think he will really be able to help? Seems to me the minute a western country tells, suggests, even hints at something the Asia country should, they don't do it.

Being a diplomat and already working in Thailand, Peter Rider will be no fool and fully aware of the system/situation. Diplomats normally speak a language that is hard for us mere mortals to understand.It will be interesting to see outcome.

Graham Cleghorn has obviously pissed off somebody big ........

And that will the biggest reason nothing will get done. Asians and their revenge.

[zzap]

It's not as simple as this...

G.C. writes from Cambodian prisons.

[Ajarn]

I suspect, cuz it's normal to do, that this guys lawyer paid off the girls for their statements, and now the government ain't interested in reading them, or hearing anything more....

[Thomas_Merton]

I suspect, cuz it's normal to do, that this guys lawyer paid off the girls for their statements, and now the government ain't interested in reading them, or hearing anything more....

Got to agree with Ajarn here.

It is always the problem when getting involved with individual cases - we only ever know, highest, a tenth of the truth.

[lamphun]

I suspect the opposite -

In a statement published on the Internet soon after his conviction, Cleghorn said he was framed by corrupt officials, including Siam Reap District Court judge Ten Senarong who wanted land he owned near the ancient temple Angkor Wat.

When he refused, Judge Senarong's sister Tan Senara, who ran the local office of the crisis centre, began approaching girls in his village offering them US$10,000 each to testify that he had molested them.

Graham Cleghorn

[Boon Mee]

He should have seen it coming and sold the property.

That's not to say he deserves what he got but it is Cambodia after all...

[udon]

Australia’s criminal involvement in Cambodia Read on......

edit:

I've just finshed reading the whole (?) story on Inquisition21.com

re Clint Betteridge – stop this extradition!

Bart Lauwaert tells his own story

Graham Cleghorn writes from inside Siem Reap Prison

The setting up of Rudolf Knuchel

Most paedos seem to have a swag of kiddie pics on their PCs or laptops.

I can find no references to PCs, LTs porn or kiddie pics anywhere.

Have I missed something?

[chuchok]

I suspect the opposite -

Maybe yes maybe no..the whole thing is fishy at best...

Girls take back rape allegations

18 February 2006

By MATTHEW TORBIT

New Zealand diplomats have intervened in the case of a Kiwi man serving 20 years in a Cambodian prison on sex charges – after the teenage complainants all retracted their evidence against him.

Graham Cleghorn, 55, a former aid worker, was jailed in February 2004 and is being held in Phnom Penh's Prey Sar prison.

The New Zealand Government had already raised concerns at the handling of Cleghorn's trial – which took just nine hours.

He was refused a translator, and denied the right to call his own witnesses and cross-examine prosecution witnesses.

Now diplomats have again stepped in after Cleghorn's appeal was conducted without his knowledge.

The unsuccessful appeal, secretly held last month in Siam Reap, did not allow Cleghorn to present written statements from all five women he was convicted of raping that state the sex crimes did not happen.

Foreign Affairs and Trade Ministry spokeswoman Helen Tunnah said the Government had been monitoring Cleghorn's situation since he was jailed, but decided to act after news of the appeal dismissal emerged.

The New Zealand ambassador in Bangkok, Peter Rider, had met a representative at Cambodia's embassy this week to outline this country's "grave" concerns about Cleghorn's appeal being heard in his absence.

"The ambassador pointed out neither Cleghorn, his lawyer or New Zealand officials had been told the appeal was to be heard and asked for an explanation as to how this came about.

"It was emphasised that this had denied Mr Cleghorn the opportunity to present a case, which breached his right to a fair hearing."

Ms Tunnah said embassy staff were awaiting a response from Cambodian officials.

Cleghorn's two daughters have hired prominent Wellington lawyer Greg King, who said he was disgusted at the legal processes surrounding the case.

He described the appeal dismissal as a "breach of fundamental natural justice in every sense".

Cleghorn had pinned all of his hopes for freedom on the appeal. "And for that now to be dismissed without him knowing, without him being present, without him being represented, is abhorrent."

Mr King said his client was a victim of a non-government organisation, the Cambodian Women's Crisis Centre, which was seeking millions of dollars of foreign funding that had been poured into Southeast Asia to stop child prostitution with Western men.

"Organisations have popped up to get their hands on this funding, and the way to do this is to catch people involved in the illicit sex trade, which Graham's been caught up in."

An excerpt from one of the five teens' statements says: "I swear on oath to help the foreigner Mr. Graham that he has never touched my body."

In a statement published on the Internet soon after his conviction, Cleghorn said he was framed by corrupt officials, including Siam Reap District Court judge Ten Senarong who wanted land he owned near the ancient temple Angkor Wat.

When he refused, Judge Senarong's sister Tan Senara, who ran the local office of the crisis centre, began approaching girls in his village offering them US$10,000 each to testify that he had molested them.

In October 2003 he was arrested and charged with five counts of rape, as well as unlawful possession of a weapon.

About the same time, an Australian and Swiss national were imprisoned in similar circumstances.

Bronwyn Sloan, a Cambodian-based Australian, said she visited Cleghorn in prison before he found out the appeal had been thrown out.

"He was holding it together but he does have health problems," she said. "But I imagine he will now be totally devastated."

Ms Sloan said Cleghorn arrived in Cambodia in the late 1980s and worked as an aid worker in Cambodia's northern border camps. He formerly lived in Petone.

She said Cleghorn's Cambodian wife Der and their six-year-old child were distraught at his treatment.

[the scouser]

Previously convicted of possession of child porn in Britain, Gary Glitter was lucky to receive only 3 years in Vietnam, yet these guys, who appear to be innocent, are facing a corrupt judicial system and far longer sentences.

Scouse.

[udon]

The Setting Up of Rudolf Knuchel

ECTOPIA pix of girls

[Maejo Man]

It would appear that owning a little piece of paradise in Siam Reap is definately not in the best interests of one's personal safety.

These self styled NGOs really are the pits. They recieve millions of dollars in overseas funding, enabling them to live a very acceptable life style, whilst purporting to assist these "victims" of child molestation.

I read all the linked articles, and nowhere did I find any reference to child pornography, or any mention that the "victims" had been paid any renumeration for their services.

Are these people a new breed of child molester? Ones that don't carry any photographs, and don't pay for their perverted pleasures.

Makes one wonder where the anchovie canning industry is located these days

[chuchok]

The Setting Up of Rudolf Knuchel

ECTOPIA pix of girls

While Knuchel was in jail, ABC made two attempts to sell his land, but Knuchel’s lawyer got an order preventing him.

At the trial, one boy and his mother appeared as witnesses against him. But then the boy admitted in court that Knuchel had never had sex with him. His mother took the stand and asked for her $10,000. The judge asked why she thought she could get $10,000. She replied that it had been promised to her by the CWCC and Tan Senarong. The judge said ‘so go and ask them for the money’.

Knuchel was freed.

Because of the earlier Knuchel sentence, the CWCC and its patron Women’s Minister Mu Sochua had became instant celebrities, and worldwide donations poured in. Mu Sochua became the Jean d’Arc of sex crimes. A crime to steal land had produced a cash windfall and had shown them that, with the aid of a corrupt judge, protected by two members of the Assembly, they could do whatever they wanted to do. On top of that, honest people around the world would give them money and call them heroes. After all, who would believe a paedophile claiming his innocence?

The mother of the boy hung around the court for a week, asking for her $10,000

[camerata]

The files on these cases feature a parade of false accusers who mostly recanted their testimony when they weren't given the $10,000 they were promised - and yet they are not punished. However, one girl's family got heavily into debt, the father became an alcoholic and died, then the family disintegrated and the NGO that had offered the 10K threw the wife $1 for the funeral. Now that's karma in action.

[kat]

I found the articles posted on this thread to be quite an incredible read. It is sobering, to realize how easily well-intentioned people, NGOs, governments, and funders can be mislead when they have very little knowledge of local corruption and governance issues.

The story as it is laid out by the defense is not at all hard to believe, and I hope that they will be able to prove their case, for the sake of everyone involved, including the welfare of children and legitimate organizations whose mission it is to protect children. I copied a couple of quotes:

"... They produced eight people but while they were recruiting the false witnesses a staff member taped the offers being made. It was that tape recording of witnesses being offered $10,000, and a motor cycle and a job with an NGO that destroyed the case against Knuchel."

Evidence like this is key. I hope they will be able to expose all of the false accusations and scamming in this case, and then publicize it far and wide.

However, I take issue with this quote: "Cambodia is the example of what happens

when women and child rights groups are given political and police powers. They use them for terror and extortion, and do not think that the activities such organizations as the NSPCC in the UK are any different – only in the degree of the powers they yield."

Ok, the article had me until it starts on the women and children police-powers trip. This is not a case of women and children's organizations, this is a case of money-grubbing, corrupt, soul-less locals exploiting the poor, and lack of governance mechanisms in Cambodia.

Here is the dilemma: Cambodia is a world destination for pedophiles, a highly corrupt country, and does have a serious issue with the ethics of prominent local and government officials. So, this story is not only believable, but highly probable that an NGO could be administered with all the connections and bad habits prevelant in every power structure of the country. However, it is also probable that many longterm expats in Cambodia are there to also exploit these weaknesses in Cambodian society. This creates a crisis of belief, in that, all of the above could actually be culpable of immoral behavior.

Don't know. In this case, regardless of what has happened, if the NGO was out offering money and gifts for people to testify, and there is proof to this effect, they need to go down - way down, and very publicly. Peds are going to come and go everyday, but if a local NGO in the name of women and children are commiting these sorts of offences and scams, I want their <deleted> to frickin' fry.

*And, again, if these stories turn out to be true, it should serve as a warning to every politically correct NGO and its funders that things are not always black and white, especially in places where they have very little local understanding.

*edit

Edited March 4, 2006 by kat

[kat]

hmmm ....

After reading the articles on Inquisition 21 more closely, a recurring pattern definitely emerges in their editorial. Women seem to be commonly portrayed or suggested as the Nazi crusaders in their professional roles as investigators, child protection professionals, or mothers, and it seems a few of them are "US Women". There is also talk on some of these articles of a possible CIA conspiracy to frame suspects whose politics are not in agreement with US Republicans. Conspiracy abounds it seems, if you are a suspected pedophile in Cambodia, or anywhere for that matter, according to their reports.

hmmm ... lets see, what else .... they also publish a profile of one man who is one of their examples of "Justice in Cambodia", who states that he sees nothing wrong with sex with children, and that child protection advocates are "anti-sex". He also states that during his time in jail, he only saw 2 men that were avidly pursing sex with males, and therefore by his reasoning, out of the 600 accused, foreign pedophiles in his prision, only those 2 were the real peds.

The case that I commented about earlier *(in the previous post) is interesting, because of the possibility of corruption by the protective agencies, where the issue of land holdings and family ties makes it very possible. However, it is obvious that Inquisition 21 also serves as an apologist and advocacy vehicle for pedophiles.

*edit

Edited March 4, 2006 by kat

[udon]

However, it is obvious that Inquisition 21 also serves as an apologist and advocacy vehicle for pedophiles.

Obvious?

Proof please.

[naka]

However, it is obvious that Inquisition 21 also serves as an apologist and advocacy vehicle for pedophiles.

Obvious?

Proof please.

Seconded ... Cough it up Kat.

Naka.

[kat]

I've already given you an example of my perspective on post #19, and a synopsis of what I found to be Inq 21's perspective from a closer reading of most of their articles, *on post #20.

What may be obvious to some may not be obvious to others, for obvious reasons.

It's up to you to read the articles and editorials and reach your own conclusions.

Edited March 5, 2006 by kat

[zzap]

It's a really messy situation.

Ngos being part of the corruption, and those with pedophile interests, who are indeed in Cambodia, taking this opportunity to excuse themselves.

Kat has reasonably pointed to some questionable comments in the articles.

[kat]

Thanks Zzap.

Yes, indeed. Cambodia sounds like a quagmire, for numerous reasons.

[Rumpole]

These self styled NGOs really are the pits. They recieve millions of dollars in overseas funding, enabling them to live a very acceptable life style, whilst purporting to assist these "victims" of child molestation.

You are not wrong and so many of them seem to be controlled by feminazis and/or Christian fundamentalists. The British doctor Ian Scott was similarly set up by one of these groups several years ago.

Between Sept 2003 and March 2004, many Westerners were arrested for sex crimes, and this was the period during which the NGOs must justify their existence to receive the following year’s donation.

Cambodia is the example of what happens when women and child rights groups are given political and police powers.

This story is horrific, and really brings home just how vunerable we expatriates are to the capricious whims of local officialdom in all its corrupt and duplicitous manifestations. It is all very well to dismiss these events as "Well, it is Cambodia". Anyone who believes that similar things could not happen in Thailand is seriously deluding themselves.

Edited March 5, 2006 by Rumpole

[kat]

I have no doubt that power and influence can be exploited, and that political correctness can run amok. However, do you truly believe that most of these organizations are run by "feminazis"?

And yes, the same thing can and has happened in Thailand, I'm sure. Thailand was also the resident address of many pedophiles before the lot of them either married a Thai woman with a family, moved to Cambodia, or are still here, travelling to and fro.

Does this mean that every expat in Cambodia or Thailand for that matter is an accused ped? No.

Does this mean that every NGO working on behalf of exploited children and gender violence is a hysterical, right-wing, CIA-funded, "femiNazi"?

I'll leave the answer to you.

Edited March 5, 2006 by kat

[Rumpole]

..

Edited March 5, 2006 by Rumpole

[kat]

Right. Just as I suspected.

[Rumpole]

I have no doubt that power and influence can be exploited, and that political correctness can run amok. However, do you truly believe that most of these organizations are run by "feminazis"?

And yes, the same thing can and has happened in Thailand, I'm sure. Thailand was also the resident address of many pedophiles before the lot of them either married a Thai woman with a family, moved to Cambodia, or are still here, travelling to and fro.

Does this mean that every expat in Cambodia or Thailand for that matter is an accused ped? No.

Does this mean that every NGO working on behalf of exploited children and gender violence is a hysterical, right-wing, CIA-funded, "femiNazi"?

I'll leave the answer to you.

Give me a minute. Having trouble with my internet connection.

Where in my post did I say that every or most NGOs in Cambodia are run by feminazis or the CIA? It is the considered opinion of many (note I say many, not all) in the expatriate community that some (again, not all) of these organizations do have some kind of agenda, which is not necessarily related to the best interests of the people they are supposed to protect. Anecdotal 'evidence' to be sure, but fairly persuasive, unless of course you are of the opinion that every expat in the place is a latent pedophile.

The doctor I mentioned above is homosexual and made little attempt to hide the fact that he paid for sexual services from young Khmer men (all of whom he said were over 18 - mostly in their early twenties). One of these Christian fundamentalist NGOs took serious exception to his lifestyle and determined to make an example of him, mainly because of his sexual orientation. His case was not helped by the fact that despite being one of the best physicians in the country, he is known to be rude and abrasive with people he dislikes. The Cambodian legal sytem was in even more of a parlous state a few years ago than it is now, and this organization was obviously banking on there being no proper police or judicial investigation of their accusations. Fortunately, the man was well-liked and respected by many high-ranking Cambodians and was eventually sentenced to time-served.

Edited March 5, 2006 by Rumpole