Taxi Driver Mob Tears Down Russian Tour Agency Sign, Forces Closure

[laislica]

So what.

In the 50's in the UK, supermarkets started to emerge and they pretty much killed off the corner shops.

Then the hypermarkets came along and the supermarkets complained about them.

And so it goes on - all round the world.

[theajarn]

Silly Russians... they should stick to their territory in Pattaya. Phuket is for the Thai Taxi Mafia.

I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding. They should have a sit-down.

[NamKangMan]

So what.

In the 50's in the UK, supermarkets started to emerge and they pretty much killed off the corner shops.

Then the hypermarkets came along and the supermarkets complained about them.

And so it goes on - all round the world.

I would swap Tesco for a baht bus system on Phuket anyday. Especially along the coast road.

Edited January 29, 2013 by NamKangMan

[stoffel45]

It is all rather skilled really.

For hotels, as many of you know, there is just "Suddenly" a LOT of Russian tourists.

The hotel apologises to non-Russian guests and tell them that NEXT year - they will reduce the percentage of Russians in the guest mix.

But eventually the percent gets to the 70% level.

Now - the hotel is Totally Dependent on the Russian tour company. The normal, 'civilised' guests are long since gone.

Russian Guest Relations Officers (GROs) are given usually two bedroom suites with choice of meals in any of the hotel's restaurants. Of course they are charged for by the "Tour Operator."

Thai Tour Operators.

Take a look at the Tour Operators usually in the Lobby. Suddenly (there's that word again) ALL the tour brochures for day or 3 day trips are all in Russian. Tui, Fox, Suntours, Neckermans - leave cards saying they can be found in the Lobby of the XYZ hotel. It is cheaper to change location and abandon the business than pay the hospital bills.

It is at this time, that the hotel or hotel group, are told that they must provide rates at half the already tour operator discounted rates.

The hotel explains how this will ensure losses and it is impossible.

The Russian Tour Company informs the hotel that they will not be in their next season's brochure.

Real guests have taken flight. The choice to the hotel is to close its doors or accept the mafia offer.

The next stage or indeed it may be pari passu with the first - is a "Transport concession".

This usually starts with the hotel's limos, in the case of the (many) 5 star mafia taken over hotels. Or a deal is done with a local crook who organises taxis. Of course the Russian guests are told how shifty and dishonest Thais are by their mafia hosts, and they take the cheaper option.

The local taxi drivers are out of business - it doesn't take long - 2 - 3 months - and - yes - you guessed it - the prices to the tourists go up further.

The word "Locusts" comes to mind on these themes. In Samui, on the main road, on the way to Chaweng Noi - you will see more than one hotel with prominent boards at the entrance to their hotel which reads, "No Russians".

When we book with a new hotel on say Agoda or the wonderful Thai Visa hotel hook-up - we deeply check with other travellers using Trip Advisor or Agoda's "Reviews". If we see a lot of Cyrillic sounding names or if guests mention there are a lot of Russians - we move on to the next offering.

For the many of you who are getting weary of Russian dominated hotels, where poolside, in the bar or the restaurant is an assault course on the senses - there is a growing number of hotels in all resorts who have taken the Russian groups off their lists. The few Russian tourists who do travel in singles or family groups are not nearly so much of a problem.

But when you see two 44 seater coaches disgorging 8 tonnes of Russian tourists at the Reception of the hotel - don't get out your taxi.

[NomadJoe]

The following is the most concerning bit of this story:

While the mob stood outside of the tour office, a pair of foreigners arrived at the scene on a motorbike.

“We thought they were working for one of the Russian companies,” Mr Pairoj explained.

Allegedly not having work permits or passports with them, but plenty of time-share fliers, the pair were brought to the Cherng Talay Police Station for questioning.

“After establishing that they had nothing to do with the Russian tour agencies, the pair were released,” Mr Ma-ann told the Gazette.

So a mob of angry taxi drivers form a vigilante posse and kidnap a couple of foreigners that had nothing to do with the tour company, a company which happens to be legal. So when will the kidnapping charges be filed?

[Rinrada]

Last visited about 15-20 years ago and was a nice civilized place then...Wot happened.

Used to stay in the Expats Club Hotel (is it still?) where the hot afternoons were spent watching videos in the bar and eating bacon sarnies.....nice

[Arkady]

The advice from all this nonsense is very clear. Avoid Phuket. Your money is much better spent elsewhere - and that doesn't include Samui or Pattaya.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Arkady

[harleyd61]

Amazing....

[NamKangMan]

It is all rather skilled really.

For hotels, as many of you know, there is just "Suddenly" a LOT of Russian tourists.

The hotel apologises to non-Russian guests and tell them that NEXT year - they will reduce the percentage of Russians in the guest mix.

But eventually the percent gets to the 70% level.

Now - the hotel is Totally Dependent on the Russian tour company. The normal, 'civilised' guests are long since gone.

Russian Guest Relations Officers (GROs) are given usually two bedroom suites with choice of meals in any of the hotel's restaurants. Of course they are charged for by the "Tour Operator."

Thai Tour Operators.

Take a look at the Tour Operators usually in the Lobby. Suddenly (there's that word again) ALL the tour brochures for day or 3 day trips are all in Russian. Tui, Fox, Suntours, Neckermans - leave cards saying they can be found in the Lobby of the XYZ hotel. It is cheaper to change location and abandon the business than pay the hospital bills.

It is at this time, that the hotel or hotel group, are told that they must provide rates at half the already tour operator discounted rates.

The hotel explains how this will ensure losses and it is impossible.

The Russian Tour Company informs the hotel that they will not be in their next season's brochure.

Real guests have taken flight. The choice to the hotel is to close its doors or accept the mafia offer.

The next stage or indeed it may be pari passu with the first - is a "Transport concession".

This usually starts with the hotel's limos, in the case of the (many) 5 star mafia taken over hotels. Or a deal is done with a local crook who organises taxis. Of course the Russian guests are told how shifty and dishonest Thais are by their mafia hosts, and they take the cheaper option.

The local taxi drivers are out of business - it doesn't take long - 2 - 3 months - and - yes - you guessed it - the prices to the tourists go up further.

The word "Locusts" comes to mind on these themes. In Samui, on the main road, on the way to Chaweng Noi - you will see more than one hotel with prominent boards at the entrance to their hotel which reads, "No Russians".

When we book with a new hotel on say Agoda or the wonderful Thai Visa hotel hook-up - we deeply check with other travellers using Trip Advisor or Agoda's "Reviews". If we see a lot of Cyrillic sounding names or if guests mention there are a lot of Russians - we move on to the next offering.

For the many of you who are getting weary of Russian dominated hotels, where poolside, in the bar or the restaurant is an assault course on the senses - there is a growing number of hotels in all resorts who have taken the Russian groups off their lists. The few Russian tourists who do travel in singles or family groups are not nearly so much of a problem.

But when you see two 44 seater coaches disgorging 8 tonnes of Russian tourists at the Reception of the hotel - don't get out your taxi.

I've never had a problem with Russians here, either individually, or in a group, but then again, I'm not in business here.

If given what you say is true, and Russians are not a desired nationality to host for tourism purposes, doesn't the fact that the TAT is aggressively marketing to them sound a few alarm bells?

Are the Russians "the last throw of the dice" for Phuket? If no other country wants Russian, is Phuket that desperate that it has to target them for tourism?

If the the Russians now chose an alternate destinations, either within Thailand, or a neighbouring country, what's that say about Phuket? If the tourists you don't want here, don't even actually want to come here anymore.

You hint that the Russians have scared off "real guests." I disagree. Those "real guests" have left because of the island's problems, not because Russians are holidaying here. I know many Germans and Scandi's have chosen Hua Hin as their alternative to Phuket.

The TAT targeted the emerging economies, with their cheap package holidays, now they are finding this demographic not as lucrative "on the ground" but anyone could have seen that coming long before.

So, if the Chinese, Russians and Indians are not using tuk-tuks, and the farang numbers are in decline, or now arrange alternative transport, where do the tuk-tuks go from there?

Initially, they will probably increase prices to make up for lost revenue, but that's not a long term solution. I can only see they must collude with police or officials to prohibit vehicle hire/driving/riding for tourists, or some other major move.

For the tuk-tuks, if Russians are all they have left as customers to rely upon, and judging by the OP they are obviously missing the revenue from that demographic, it will be interesting what their next move will be to force people to use them.

[afr490872]

I'm surprised that most of the posters take the side of the Russian tour agents in this dispute. In my opinion most of these tour agencies staffed by Russians are in

substance owned and operated by Russians notwithstanding their formal Thai ownership. Russians just pay Thai owner nominees retaining fees to avoid attracting

criticism from locals. International organizations rank Russia as one of the most corrupt countries in the world and Russians are skilled most than most at corrupting

people wherever they have business interests. This is one of the reasons why we see so many Russians working in tour business in Thailand, unlike nationals of other

countries that bring many tourists numbers to Thailand, like China, Japan, or India. These Russians possibly find a way to do that without workpermits, by bribing local

officials. In addition to that Russians are known for their aggressive business methods and the locals seem at last are fighting back. Of course local taxi mafia does

everything to maintain its monopoly and to protect extortionist prices, but looks like Russians are still finding ways to beat locals in this tourist transportation business.

These ubiquitous Russian tour desks are located what seems like every fifty meters wherever one goes in touristy areas. They are real eyesores in Phuket and Pattaya.

And I find it strange and an affront when such businesses demonstratively cater exclusively only to one nationality in popular tourist locations, occupying public space

in discrimination to other nationalities. Most of these businesses have only signage in cyrillics without even a word in Thai or English. There are other Russian

businesses like restaurants and diving shops where you won't get any service if you are not a Russian. Russians probably think they now own Pattaya and Phuket. Thai

authorities should regulate these issues to avoid creating an impression that they prefer one nationality over another. I don't see any Chinese, Indian, Japanese or

German tour desks catering only to their compartriots.

Other countries have enough tact not to push their exclusive national interests in such arrogant and demostrative manner.

And for those who cheer these Russian tour agents for taking on local taxi mafia, I think there is no benefit in this fight for Western tourists.

In fact if these taxi drivers miss business on Russians they will have to rip Westerners even more to compensate such loss of income.

[stoli]

I would have to guess that the Moscow condo market is not doing that well right now. All of their salespeople are in Phuket?

[inzman]

If you have to choose between the lesser of two evils, taxi mafia or russian taxis, I choose the Russians.

[robblok]

If you have to choose between the lesser of two evils, taxi mafia or russian taxis, I choose the Russians.

I agree that is why i side with the Russians, the tuk tuks maffia needs to be broken.

[afr490872]

Just what I thought: "Mr Ma-ann said Alex Tour, targetted yesterday by the protesters, was operating legally with a business licence, but the Russian staff did not have work permits." () I think most Russians working in tour business as drivers and street tour desk staff don't have work permits but just pay the right people to look away. Responding to robblok's and inzman's comments above - Russians of course will not brake the tuk tuk mafia, and all the non-Russian rest of us will pay more in tuk tuk fares thanks to Russians not using them.

[waza]

Just what I thought: "Mr Ma-ann said Alex Tour, targetted yesterday by the protesters, was operating legally with a business licence, but the Russian staff did not have work permits." (http://www.thaivisa....thai-officials/) I think most Russians working in tour business as drivers and street tour desk staff don't have work permits but just pay the right people to look away. Responding to robblok's and inzman's comments above - Russians of course will not brake the tuk tuk mafia, and all the non-Russian rest of us will pay more in tuk tuk fares thanks to Russians not using them.

Let me get this straight, your saying its the Russians fault that the tuk tuk/ taxi mafia are ripping tourist off?

[Jimi007]

Just what I thought: "Mr Ma-ann said Alex Tour, targetted yesterday by the protesters, was operating legally with a business licence, but the Russian staff did not have work permits." (http://www.thaivisa....thai-officials/) I think most Russians working in tour business as drivers and street tour desk staff don't have work permits but just pay the right people to look away. Responding to robblok's and inzman's comments above - Russians of course will not brake the tuk tuk mafia, and all the non-Russian rest of us will pay more in tuk tuk fares thanks to Russians not using them.

The taxi/ tuk tuk drivers are just greedy bastards! I'm not sure I've ever used a tuk tuk. The first time I came here eight years ago, I saw how much they wanted to charge me for a taxi at the airport, so I rented a car instead. I see many Russians driving rental cars and motorbikes. The tuk tuk and taxi mafia has been shooting themselves in the foot around here for many years now in their little fiefdom called Phuket...

Edited January 29, 2013 by Jimi007

[afr490872]

Let me get this straight, your saying its the Russians fault that the tuk tuk/ taxi mafia are ripping tourist off?

Perhaps not yet , but if Russians keep taking business away from local tuk tuk/taxi groups and ignore their interests then yes there will be more rip off and prices will rise for us.

[KKvampire]

Let me get this straight, your saying its the Russians fault that the tuk tuk/ taxi mafia are ripping tourist off?

Perhaps not yet , but if Russians keep taking business away from local tuk tuk/taxi groups and ignore their interests then yes there will be more rip off and prices will rise for us.

"ignore their interests" . , The only people who the prices rise for are those rather S****d to use them

[qdinthailand]

So the Thai mafia is trying to get the police to take out the Russian mafia trying to move in on their turf.

A sensible solution for the Thai mob. Lots of bloodshed saved if the police are successful.

[Jimi007]

Let me get this straight, your saying its the Russians fault that the tuk tuk/ taxi mafia are ripping tourist off?

Perhaps not yet , but if Russians keep taking business away from local tuk tuk/taxi groups and ignore their interests then yes there will be more rip off and prices will rise for us.

LOL! Really? They aren't ripping you off? Compared to where else in Thailand? They don't rip me off, because I never use them, other than to and from the airport, which they now charge me 600 Baht instead of 500 Baht back in September... Collusion. No meters in the taxis or tuk tuks, no public transport to speak of, it's ridiculous!

Edited January 29, 2013 by Jimi007

[spidermike007]

>>Pairoj Sahod, President of Cherng Talay Taxi co-operative, also charged the Russian tour companies on Phuket with collusion.

Well I think it is all the taxi and tuk tuk organizations that should be charged with collusion, especially seeing as not one driver can undercut another driver as to the fare for a paying customer. Lets start wtih the patong association run by the mayors son, piya, then look at the kata/karon "association" and now that the cherng talaly co-op is popping off, let's look at them for collusion also as none of these drivers in these ranks can undercut anyone driver.

The taxi groups in both Phuket, and Samui are more powerful than the local, state, or even federal government. More powerful than the police. Nobody can, or will control these insects. They get away with charging 200 baht for 2km., or less. They should be completely disbanded, and their cars should all be set on fire, but nothing ever changes. On so many levels, Thailand is traveling backwards.

[Valentine]

>>Pairoj Sahod, President of Cherng Talay Taxi co-operative, also charged the Russian tour companies on Phuket with collusion.

Well I think it is all the taxi and tuk tuk organizations that should be charged with collusion, especially seeing as not one driver can undercut another driver as to the fare for a paying customer. Lets start wtih the patong association run by the mayors son, piya, then look at the kata/karon "association" and now that the cherng talaly co-op is popping off, let's look at them for collusion also as none of these drivers in these ranks can undercut anyone driver.

The taxi groups in both Phuket, and Samui are more powerful than the local, state, or even federal government. More powerful than the police. Nobody can, or will control these insects. They get away with charging 200 baht for 2km., or less. They should be completely disbanded, and their cars should all be set on fire, but nothing ever changes. On so many levels, Thailand is traveling backwards.

I think you got that wrong. All the money generated through these 'cartels" goes all the way up the line. The actual drivers are mere pawns in the bigger picture such as the average red shirt was a couple of years back or any other mob who the powers that be can mobilise to protect their interests.

[LivinginKata]

I think you got that wrong. All the money generated through these 'cartels" goes all the way up the line. The actual drivers are mere pawns in the bigger picture such as the average red shirt was a couple of years back or any other mob who the powers that be can mobilise to protect their interests.

Ain't that the truth. A refreshingly honest post Val.

[Guest]

I think you got that wrong. All the money generated through these 'cartels" goes all the way up the line. The actual drivers are mere pawns in the bigger picture such as the average red shirt was a couple of years back or any other mob who the powers that be can mobilise to protect their interests.

I don't think anyone is thinking that the drivers are at the end of the food-chain. The money flows up naturally.

The problem is that this syndicate has grown too powerful. They have a frequent flow of money, which will keep them in the power. It's easy to buy new friends in a place that have no backbone.

If there is any way to disturb the flow of money ending up to the pockets of the syndicate, that's the way to lessen their power. That's also the reason why so many people are taking sides of the Russians, instead of the local taxi mafia.

If the local taxi syndicate would loose it's power, it might be more easy to hit the future powers with the law. Maybe not, maybe not here.. but that's still a candle light at the end of the tunnel. Something to hope for.

[spidermike007]

I think you got that wrong. All the money generated through these 'cartels" goes all the way up the line. The actual drivers are mere pawns in the bigger picture such as the average red shirt was a couple of years back or any other mob who the powers that be can mobilise to protect their interests.

I don't think anyone is thinking that the drivers are at the end of the food-chain. The money flows up naturally.

The problem is that this syndicate has grown too powerful. They have a frequent flow of money, which will keep them in the power. It's easy to buy new friends in a place that have no backbone.

If there is any way to disturb the flow of money ending up to the pockets of the syndicate, that's the way to lessen their power. That's also the reason why so many people are taking sides of the Russians, instead of the local taxi mafia.

If the local taxi syndicate would loose it's power, it might be more easy to hit the future powers with the law. Maybe not, maybe not here.. but that's still a candle light at the end of the tunnel. Something to hope for.

I like your thinking. Yes, one can only hope Thailand can figure out a way to grow, evolve, and improve. It is beyond many of us to conceive of how that could happen, but one can only hope. The direction the nation appears to be going tends not to leave one with much hope, but for those of us who love this place, hope does provide a bit of light. Thanks for that.

[NamKangMan]

I think you got that wrong. All the money generated through these 'cartels" goes all the way up the line. The actual drivers are mere pawns in the bigger picture such as the average red shirt was a couple of years back or any other mob who the powers that be can mobilise to protect their interests.

I don't think anyone is thinking that the drivers are at the end of the food-chain. The money flows up naturally.

The problem is that this syndicate has grown too powerful. They have a frequent flow of money, which will keep them in the power. It's easy to buy new friends in a place that have no backbone.

If there is any way to disturb the flow of money ending up to the pockets of the syndicate, that's the way to lessen their power. That's also the reason why so many people are taking sides of the Russians, instead of the local taxi mafia.

If the local taxi syndicate would loose it's power, it might be more easy to hit the future powers with the law. Maybe not, maybe not here.. but that's still a candle light at the end of the tunnel. Something to hope for.

We all know how Thailand operates. It's a terribly corrupt country. No one really has a problem with it. The locals grew up with it, the expats can get things done with it, and the tourists are blind to it.

Transport is an essential service. Transport is like water and electricity - people HAVE TO get from point A to Point B.

All Phuket needs, in order to fix a lot of problems, is tuk-tuks to act like baht buses along the coast road, and beach areas, and some proper metered taxis for longer journeys such as the Airport.

The drivers just need to work for their money, and they would earn considerably more than just sitting around playing cards all day whilst waiting to rip off one tourist for for a days wage.

The corruption can still exist for who pays to work the more busy routes etc etc, but what we have now is simply the witholding of an essential service to the public and it's damaging tourism here and killing people on the roads. At the basic level, it effects everyones freedom of movement and ability to enjoy Phuket to it's fullest potention.

There is no future for the tuk-tuks if they continue to conduct business in this way.