Arrested For Singing The Wrong Songs At North Pattaya Country Music Concert

[MikeThaison]

As usual TV is full of people that choose to miss an entire paragraph in the entire ARTICLE -

"The case began when officials from seven separate music licensing companies went to Pattaya Police Station to report copyright violations by the popular singer who was in the process of performing at a concert held at the northern end of Pattaya Third Road which was attended by thousands of people"

Everyone is acting like this was the Police acting on their own. There was obviously a formal complaint filed and they reviewed the paperwork and determined that the COPYRIGHT HOLDERS had what appeared to be a valid claim! This is not about busting karaoke shops, or music performers in the small bars. This is a copyright holder having issues with another performer. stop taking the piss and move on.

.

[TackyToo]

Another example of what happens when the clowns run the circus!!!

[chrisrazz]

As usual TV is full of people that choose to miss an entire paragraph in the entire ARTICLE -

"The case began when officials from seven separate music licensing companies went to Pattaya Police Station to report copyright violations by the popular singer who was in the process of performing at a concert held at the northern end of Pattaya Third Road which was attended by thousands of people"

Everyone is acting like this was the Police acting on their own. There was obviously a formal complaint filed and they reviewed the paperwork and determined that the COPYRIGHT HOLDERS had what appeared to be a valid claim! This is not about busting karaoke shops, or music performers in the small bars. This is a copyright holder having issues with another performer. stop taking the piss and move on.

.

Interesting that SEVEN reps from music publishing companies can find the time to visit the pattaya police station together. As always in Thailand, there is a strong smell of buffalo dung about this.

[yummypizza]

When we got hit by the so called copyright mafia, the police had to uphold their claim.because they owned certain copyrights on some thai songs, although our equipment had no such songs on there,by the time we got to the police station,they were on our disks, it is a rip off, we settled very lightly after almost coming to blows at the police station,maybe farangs are getting to problematic to extort??

[unanimosity]

Certifiably NUTS! Of course, in the USA famous artists sing the songs of others all of the time (form of admiration). Dylan does it, Clapton does it, Mayer does it.....on and on. Copyright laws only enter into the equation w/ regard to recordings (as far as I know).

Well, usually they have to pay a BMI royalty fee just like radio stations since the music is used in a commercial endeavor.

[unanimosity]

As usual TV is full of people that choose to miss an entire paragraph in the entire ARTICLE -

"The case began when officials from seven separate music licensing companies went to Pattaya Police Station to report copyright violations by the popular singer who was in the process of performing at a concert held at the northern end of Pattaya Third Road which was attended by thousands of people"

Everyone is acting like this was the Police acting on their own. There was obviously a formal complaint filed and they reviewed the paperwork and determined that the COPYRIGHT HOLDERS had what appeared to be a valid claim! This is not about busting karaoke shops, or music performers in the small bars. This is a copyright holder having issues with another performer. stop taking the piss and move on.

.

Interesting that SEVEN reps from music publishing companies can find the time to visit the pattaya police station together. As always in Thailand, there is a strong smell of buffalo dung about this.

And gang mentality.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I played in a professional country band for years, played and sang songs by any singer you care to name, please remember I said singer, not Michael Jackson or Elton John, and never paid any royalties as their called, although maybe the people who paid out wages did.

I cant comment on what you did or didn't do. I only know what you should have done. In most countries copyright laws are extremely clear about these requirements.

You may well find that someone was taking care of it on your behalf. The venues in which you performed, perhaps?

[farangbanok]

I used to supply and install public address equipment in pubs, clubs and shops in UK.

In every installation I recommended that the purchaser paid a fee for a Performing Rights Society licence. They (allegedly) pay money to songwriters and copyright holders. Yeah! Right!

http://www.prsformus...es/default.aspx

So, assuming a similar system works here I would think that the festival organisers should have been licensed - NOT the performer.

Perhaps they could offer BIG BIG tea money and not get arrested. Who knows?

TiT ... hub of intellectual property rights.

Edited February 2, 2013 by farangbanok

[doodle]

From a legal perspective, you can play any song at any time from any artist as long as you fill out and hand in the set list of the songs you are going to sing, to a company responsible for collecting royalties, the concert promoter usually have to pay these fees to an organization such as , APRA Australia or GEMA Germany, i don't know who that would be in Thailand, a publisher or copyright owner has the right to stop you playing any of their catalog,should they chose to do so! that's a basic explanation...

Performing Rights Society in the UK. Had to fill in the form, once or twice, when working with performers using backing tracks.

[billd766]

I think Shakespeare hat it right in Henry the 6th.

Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78

http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/lets-kill-all-lawyers

[RegularReader]

Quoting how Public Performance Fee collection works in the US, Oz and the UK is not of any use, because the way it works in those places has little in common with how it works here.

Oz,t he US and the UK and most other major music markets have either one or two collection societies who collect on behalf of the Copyright Owners. As is the practise here, this is normally satisfied by the payment of an annual fee to the societies, who then distribute the collected royalties on a pro-rata basis to its members.

In most countries this is a fairly orderly practise - although it is not unknown for strong arm tactics to be enforced by these agencies in other places. But, as with so many of these things in Thailand, it is not that simple.

Grammy-GMM the biggest copyright owner/controller of Thai compositions and recordings and the second biggest RS, both have their own collection agencies. So, that means around 70-80% of music played in these venues is controlled by 2 companies - both for use of the recordings and compositions. The rest, which includes international songs (Lady Gaga, Michael Jackson, Beatles etc.) is collected by another 6-7 different agencies.

Under Thai law all these collection bodies are able to enforce the law and collect payment for use of their copyrighted material irregardless of it being played live, or in a recorded format. If the venue does not comply they can be forced to stop using the recordings and/or compositions. If the band was playing international songs (Michael Jackson, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber etc.) I doubt the issue would have arisen - unless the venue has not paid the appropriate license fee. I am not 100% certain on this, but I think for international compositions being performed, the band does much the same as it would in Oz,US,UK etc, and provide a set list to the venue, who subsequently passes it to the copyright collection agency.

That is standard practise throughout most of the major music markets and has been so probably for around 100 years.

But for whatever reasons both the major Thai companies have always been very precious about the use of their songs and often withhold permission for singers, other than those on their respective labels, to sing compositions under their control.

Moreover - although it is not so common now - the same companies used to only play recordings they owned on their radio stations. You can still see traces of that policy today on their radio and TV stations. But that's another issue.

The collection system in Thailand is a mess.

And, like so many things, change will be a long time coming.

Edited February 2, 2013 by RegularReader

[NoshowJones]

I played in a professional country band for years, played and sang songs by any singer you care to name, please remember I said singer, not Michael Jackson or Elton John, and never paid any royalties as their called, although maybe the people who paid out wages did.

I cant comment on what you did or didn't do. I only know what you should have done. In most countries copyright laws are extremely clear about these requirements.

You may well find that someone was taking care of it on your behalf. The venues in which you performed, perhaps?

Your'e right Bertha, that's what I said, maybe the people who paid out my wages did.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

In every installation I recommended that the purchaser paid a fee for a Performing Rights Society licence. They (allegedly) pay money to songwriters and copyright holders. Yeah! Right!

http://www.prsformus...es/default.aspx

Actually I know someone who wrote the words and music to a popular song several decades ago. He never performed it himself and he never wrote anything else that was anywhere near as popular, but that one song was recorded and sung by several fairly big stars in several different languages and countries.

He has lived very nicely off the PRS cheques for that one song ever since and looks set to continue doing so.

[borisloosebrain]

Certifiably NUTS! Of course, in the USA famous artists sing the songs of others all of the time (form of admiration). Dylan does it, Clapton does it, Mayer does it.....on and on. Copyright laws only enter into the equation w/ regard to recordings (as far as I know).

Not at all. If you perform a song or music or piece of theatre or any other copyrighted creation in public whether for reward or not you still have to have the permission of the copyright owner, and there may be a fee payable depending on the owner. And you also have to have similar permission to record the creation, which again may be subject to payment depending on the owner.

If Dylan or anyone else sings someone else's songs in public, or records them, then he has to have permission for each occurrence and may have to pay.

Not so in Australia - you can perform live any song that is in the public domain - without permission - but for recordings you need permission and the writer/composer gets royalties for every unit sold and every time it's broadcast/played on the radio or TV- royalties are collected via APRA.

For specific shows'plays/ theatre /musicals etc I think you need the copyright owners nod - but never for individual songs played at live gigs !

If that were the case there'd be thousands of singers and musicians in jail in OZ

Unless this guy in Pattaya was playing previously unreleased material -it seems strange as does the fact that the complainants had some paperwork with them for the BIB to examine...... as if they travel to concerts with this stuff in their back pocket.

[borisloosebrain]

In every installation I recommended that the purchaser paid a fee for a Performing Rights Society licence. They (allegedly) pay money to songwriters and copyright holders. Yeah! Right!

http://www.prsformus...es/default.aspx

Actually I know someone who wrote the words and music to a popular song several decades ago. He never performed it himself and he never wrote anything else that was anywhere near as popular, but that one song was recorded and sung by several fairly big stars in several different languages and countries.

He has lived very nicely off the PRS cheques for that one song ever since and looks set to continue doing so.

They certainly keep paying in Australia.

[borisloosebrain]

Perhaps the police could turn their attention to the many thai soap stars attempting to impersonate singers...surely an amendment to the noise pollution act could be madeto cover their crimes against music.

[aechzen]

its abouth the lyrics , in thailand you are not a free artist ,

[Beetlejuice]

His latest hit: Please Release Me, Let Me go, has just reached no1 in the Thai charts.

[paulswebb]

No Performance Rights Society in Thailand, the hub of rip offs, sounds like an opportunity to me, don't forget you heard it here first 555

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Not so in Australia - you can perform live any song that is in the public domain - without permission - but for recordings you need permission and the writer/composer gets royalties for every unit sold and every time it's broadcast/played on the radio or TV- royalties are collected via APRA.

The topic here is specifically creations that are not in the public domain.

[DD13]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wake me up when you have all finished

[wolfmanjack]

Certifiably NUTS! Of course, in the USA famous artists sing the songs of others all of the time (form of admiration). Dylan does it, Clapton does it, Mayer does it.....on and on. Copyright laws only enter into the equation w/ regard to recordings (as far as I know).

Not at all. If you perform a song or music or piece of theatre or any other copyrighted creation in public whether for reward or not you still have to have the permission of the copyright owner, and there may be a fee payable depending on the owner. And you also have to have similar permission to record the creation, which again may be subject to payment depending on the owner.

If Dylan or anyone else sings someone else's songs in public, or records them, then he has to have permission for each occurrence and may have to pay.

Not true. There are agencies such as ASCAP that license premises based on square footage and the number of chairs so that the live bands can perform copyrighted songs and owners can play music on the premises. If you have a license then you do not have to gain permissions from individual artists.

[davejones]

Glad to hear that Thailand is taking copyright violations seriously. LOL. The world has gone mad.

[musiclover]

Certifiably NUTS! Of course, in the USA famous artists sing the songs of others all of the time (form of admiration). Dylan does it, Clapton does it, Mayer does it.....on and on. Copyright laws only enter into the equation w/ regard to recordings (as far as I know).

Not at all. If you perform a song or music or piece of theatre or any other copyrighted creation in public whether for reward or not you still have to have the permission of the copyright owner, and there may be a fee payable depending on the owner. And you also have to have similar permission to record the creation, which again may be subject to payment depending on the owner.

If Dylan or anyone else sings someone else's songs in public, or records them, then he has to have permission for each occurrence and may have to pay.

Certifiably NUTS! Of course, in the USA famous artists sing the songs of others all of the time (form of admiration). Dylan does it, Clapton does it, Mayer does it.....on and on. Copyright laws only enter into the equation w/ regard to recordings (as far as I know).

Not at all. If you perform a song or music or piece of theatre or any other copyrighted creation in public whether for reward or not you still have to have the permission of the copyright owner, and there may be a fee payable depending on the owner. And you also have to have similar permission to record the creation, which again may be subject to payment depending on the owner.

If Dylan or anyone else sings someone else's songs in public, or records them, then he has to have permission for each occurrence and may have to pay.

No you don't ! Record a cover...yes but not a performance

[Spalpeen]

I heard an ice cream cart today playing "Happy birthday to you" as a jingle. I wonder where should I go to report this violation of Thailand's strict copyright laws?

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Not true. There are agencies such as ASCAP that license premises based on square footage and the number of chairs so that the live bands can perform copyrighted songs and owners can play music on the premises. If you have a license then you do not have to gain permissions from individual artists.

The permission is still being obtained, albeit from a third party who has been mandated by the copyright owner to give permission and collect fees on his behalf. This is what the PRS does also.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

No you don't ! Record a cover...yes but not a performance

You are totally mistaken.

[Thaddeus]

I heard an ice cream cart today playing "Happy birthday to you" as a jingle. I wonder where should I go to report this violation of Thailand's strict copyright laws?

Walls.

[DD13]

A Performing Rights Licence in the UK for a Bar/Restaurant/ Nightclub is roughly 6000 THB ...per annum (maybe it is cheaper here)

I would guess that once paid this "should" cover royalties for "All original performers world wide"

But I expect that there is some "small print" to scotch that

My neighbour is singing so I had better go and "shut him up"

[oldsailor35]

Well, I think the arrest was totally warranted. We don't want any copyright violations here.

'speshully' when the BIB have not been sorted first.