Urgent Advice Needed

[gharknes]

I went out for a loaf today down the soi where my condo building, there is a 7/11 a few hundred meters.

On my way back a lady in a pickup pulled out in front of me causing me to brake hard and loose control of my honda blackbird, I was doing about 25kph going slowly, I missed her pickup but the bike went down and so did I, my buike ended up hitting 2 small motorbikes parked on the street, I ended up in hospital. I was dazzed at the scene and in quite a lot of pain with blood oozing from wounds everywhere, and was winded, the lady in the pickup got into her car and drove away, I tried to stop her but in my condition I was not able..........In then went to holspital for emergency treatment

when I got out of hospital I spoke with poilice man dealing with the incident and I gave him whatever details I had about her and explained what happened and that she left the scene, there was no damage to her car because I managed to avoid it, but my bike and the 2 parked bikes where damaged.........I gave the licence number of the lady's car to poilice man but he basically said he couldn't do anything as the number off plate was not enough.........this lady is german, she owns a bar/res off sukhumvit road near north pattaya road, the shop she was visiting to buy coffee refused to give me her name and phone number, shouldn't it be up to the police to find this out ? very easy really as she goes to the cooffee supplier many times and is well known. She left the scene of an accident before poluice arrive which in my books is an offence to start with, shouldn't the police man be doing the investigating to find this lady instead of me

Anyway, I have to go to police station tomorrow to make statement and police man said he will give me letter to give to her to attend the police station also, again shouldn't he be doing this.

Should I get legal councel involved in this, tghere are 3 claiments, me and the other two motorbike owners who are initially making a claim against me, although I managed to avoid hitting this ladies car she was the 100% cause of the incident, I have a witness that saw the whole thing, there where other people around that are unlikely to say anything as she was in their shop buying coffee.

What should I do

what should the police be doing

any help/advice would be very appriciated,

anyone recomend a good legal councel that wil be able to sort this mess out.

I couyld do nothing at the scene as I was injured.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I went out for a loaf today down the soi where my condo building, there is a 7/11 a few hundred meters.

On my way back a lady in a pickup pulled out in front of me causing me to brake hard and loose control of my honda blackbird, I was doing about 25kph going slowly, I missed her pickup but the bike went down and so did I, my buike ended up hitting 2 small motorbikes parked on the street, I ended up in hospital. I was dazzed at the scene and in quite a lot of pain with blood oozing from wounds everywhere, and was winded, the lady in the pickup got into her car and drove away, I tried to stop her but in my condition I was not able..........In then went to holspital for emergency treatment

when I got out of hospital I spoke with poilice man dealing with the incident and I gave him whatever details I had about her and explained what happened and that she left the scene, there was no damage to her car because I managed to avoid it, but my bike and the 2 parked bikes where damaged.........I gave the licence number of the lady's car to poilice man but he basically said he couldn't do anything as the number off plate was not enough.........this lady is german, she owns a bar/res off sukhumvit road near north pattaya road, the shop she was visiting to buy coffee refused to give me her name and phone number, shouldn't it be up to the police to find this out ? very easy really as she goes to the cooffee supplier many times and is well known. She left the scene of an accident before poluice arrive which in my books is an offence to start with, shouldn't the police man be doing the investigating to find this lady instead of me

Anyway, I have to go to police station tomorrow to make statement and police man said he will give me letter to give to her to attend the police station also, again shouldn't he be doing this.

Should I get legal councel involved in this, tghere are 3 claiments, me and the other two motorbike owners who are initially making a claim against me, although I managed to avoid hitting this ladies car she was the 100% cause of the incident, I have a witness that saw the whole thing, there where other people around that are unlikely to say anything as she was in their shop buying coffee.

What should I do

what should the police be doing

any help/advice would be very appriciated,

anyone recomend a good legal councel that wil be able to sort this mess out.

I couyld do nothing at the scene as I was injured.

Shouldn't your insurance be sorting all of this out?

How could you have such a bad accident at 25 KPH?

[Rinrada]

Couple of points to consider from your "statement".

but.....dont recon you have any chance and suggest you just get on with life....

...causing me to brake hard and loose control of my honda blackbird, I was doing about 25kph

and

I missed her pickup but the bike went down and so did I, my buike ended up hitting 2 small motorbikes parked on the street.....

and

I managed to avoid hitting this ladies car she was the 100% cause of the incident

and

... other people around that are unlikely to say anything as she was in their shop buying coffee.

and finally.....

I gave the licence number of the lady's car to poilice man but he basically said he couldn't do anything as the number off plate was not enough

[gharknes]

I went out for a loaf today down the soi where my condo building, there is a 7/11 a few hundred meters.

On my way back a lady in a pickup pulled out in front of me causing me to brake hard and loose control of my honda blackbird, I was doing about 25kph going slowly, I missed her pickup but the bike went down and so did I, my buike ended up hitting 2 small motorbikes parked on the street, I ended up in hospital. I was dazzed at the scene and in quite a lot of pain with blood oozing from wounds everywhere, and was winded, the lady in the pickup got into her car and drove away, I tried to stop her but in my condition I was not able..........In then went to holspital for emergency treatment

when I got out of hospital I spoke with poilice man dealing with the incident and I gave him whatever details I had about her and explained what happened and that she left the scene, there was no damage to her car because I managed to avoid it, but my bike and the 2 parked bikes where damaged.........I gave the licence number of the lady's car to poilice man but he basically said he couldn't do anything as the number off plate was not enough.........this lady is german, she owns a bar/res off sukhumvit road near north pattaya road, the shop she was visiting to buy coffee refused to give me her name and phone number, shouldn't it be up to the police to find this out ? very easy really as she goes to the cooffee supplier many times and is well known. She left the scene of an accident before poluice arrive which in my books is an offence to start with, shouldn't the police man be doing the investigating to find this lady instead of me

Anyway, I have to go to police station tomorrow to make statement and police man said he will give me letter to give to her to attend the police station also, again shouldn't he be doing this.

Should I get legal councel involved in this, tghere are 3 claiments, me and the other two motorbike owners who are initially making a claim against me, although I managed to avoid hitting this ladies car she was the 100% cause of the incident, I have a witness that saw the whole thing, there where other people around that are unlikely to say anything as she was in their shop buying coffee.

What should I do

what should the police be doing

any help/advice would be very appriciated,

anyone recomend a good legal councel that wil be able to sort this mess out.

I couyld do nothing at the scene as I was injured.

Shouldn't your insurance be sorting all of this out?

How could you have such a bad accident at 25 KPH?

cocrete is hard human flesh is soft, I have no broken bones except for my toe, my insurance is the standard government insurance which I know nothing about, I was about to get insurance renewed next month, 25 kph ...I meant about 25mph, this lady gave me no chance whatsoever she just pull out without looking, I salmed on the brake while trying to avoid hitting her and the bike slipped down sideways on the front tyre, I have comptetd in mororsport for many years and I had no way out of this, she just pulled out without looking and left me nowhere to go.

Couple of points to consider from your "statement".

but.....dont recon you have any chance and suggest you just get on with life....

...causing me to brake hard and loose control of my honda blackbird, I was doing about 25kph

and

I missed her pickup but the bike went down and so did I, my buike ended up hitting 2 small motorbikes parked on the street.....

and

I managed to avoid hitting this ladies car she was the 100% cause of the incident

and

... other people around that are unlikely to say anything as she was in their shop buying coffee.

and finally.....

I gave the licence number of the lady's car to poilice man but he basically said he couldn't do anything as the number off plate was not enough

this lady caused an accident and then fled the scene before police came, she knows she pulled out on me without looking, what is it i am missing, maybe I should have hit her car.....i done very well not too. There is probably about 50k worth of damage to my bike not sure about the others.

Edited February 28, 2006 by gharknes

[Noel]

Forgive the pun, but I doubt you have a leg to stand on.

Regardless, check your PM's.

[alexth]

Almost the same happened to me, a baht bus taxi driver hit the brakes just in my face, the rest is the same, he flew away, even though 3 witnesses (thai people that I had nothing to do with) the police didn't do anything, I had to pay for the car that I hit while avoiding the baht bus and for the motorbike that at that time was rented (about 12,000 bht losses)...just let it go, you'll just run inti a scandal that will get you anywhere...

[gharknes]

Almost the same happened to me, a baht bus taxi driver hit the brakes just in my face, the rest is the same, he flew away, even though 3 witnesses (thai people that I had nothing to do with) the police didn't do anything, I had to pay for the car that I hit while avoiding the baht bus and for the motorbike that at that time was rented (about 12,000 bht losses)...just let it go, you'll just run inti a scandal that will get you anywhere...

someone braking in front of you is always your fault if you hit them, someone pulling out in front of you is their fault, it is careless driving

those that say I have no chance ...... why ? this lady caused an accident I have a witness willing to testify the whole thing, are you saying I would have hadf ti hit her car to get her involved ? I have witness that says she pulled out in front of me....which is exactlyu what happened.

[davidgtr]

From my experience riding in Thailand the whole crux of the matter is "who hit who."

That's all the police are interested in. Not who caused the accident. The logic being that you should watch where you are going. If the way ahead is not clear, don't go! Even if someone runs a red light & you hit them, you are in the wrong as you hit them, the way ahead was not clear & so you should not have proceeded at the time. You may not like it , but this is how it works. Welcome to motorcycling in Thailand.

Claim on your 3rd party insurance as it works & they do pay out, although only a limited amount.

[mraitchison]

You are stuffed mate.

Sorry to say it.

Don't get ripped off on the respray on the bike either. Give me PM and I can give you an idea of the price.

If you have a real book and plate less than 5 years old you can get fully comp insurance here for about 10000 a year.

But it has to be a genuine book and lesss than 5 years old.

I can look the insurer up I have my bird insured using them.

[Patex]

Sorry for your accident, gharknes

but I think it is your fault .

In your case it was a pick up and not a soidog or, even worse, a playing child running in your way.

Give in, pay the bill and do not look for a lawyer it only makes you pay more... Repairing the 2 thai-bikes wouldn't be too expensive, I guess, everything over 7000 ฿ for both bikes is ripp off. Think positive, drive defensive.

A Motorbike isn't a car and as unjust as it is, sometimes hard to see.

Not very helpful, I know

[daleyboy]

I understand where you are coming from, and i know everyone has said you stand no chance, frankly i am not sure BUT i would find this woman and talk to her, maybe she just panicked and drove off.Try and sort it out between you, if she tells you to get lost, then well i know what i would do, but my wife has always told me i have a hot head

You are right it is careless driving and in any other country this woman would be prosectuted for that and for leaving the scene of an accident, and maybe you can play on this and tell her that you will press charges unless she pays up for the damage.

[Digger]

In the simple interpretation of the law in Thailand, you are at fault for hitting two other motorbikes. You crashed into them, not the pickup driver. The driver of the pickup could claim you were speeding, driving carelessly etc - however because she was not involved in the accident, she gets away scott free - not fair but thats how things are handled here. Some you win, some you lose.

[Dakhar]

What was the condition of her windows, tyres, and paint job on her truck before the accident?

Edited February 28, 2006 by Dakhar

[mraitchison]

G

When I was hit by another motorbike from behind a few years back ge flew across the road ndsmshed into the back of a statioary truck.

It cost me 350B to pay somebody who said they were the owner.

2000 grand to fix the bike - HOnda Sonic - new fairins headlight, clutch lever. I had a Thai friend negotiati

[barryofthailand]

When you have an accident in Thailand you need to call your insurance company before you call the police. The ppolice here are useless, and will do nothing for you. Now you will need to fix the other two motor biokes. Lucky for you they were parked. If they would have had people on them you would be paying hospital bills and going to court for reckless driving.

Barry

[Kerryd]

When you have an accident in Thailand you need to call your insurance company before you call the police.

Agreed. When I got my insurance papers, the first (or second) thing I did was add the insurance company's phone numbers to my mobile.

I've heard of a few cases where someone's bacon was saved because the insurance company's investigator over-ruled the local BIB when it came to determining the cause of an accident (and determining who was at fault).

[RamdomChances]

Sorryabout your accident, but as has been said leagaly I dont think you have a chance, if you had hit the woman then you might of. She probably could'nt even be done for "leving the scene of an accident" as she did'nt have one

Your best bet is probably going to have a word with her and seeing if she is prepared to put up some of the bill. If she wont then you probably stuck, if you get a lawyer you'll just end up paying him as well.

RC

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry to hear about your smashup; I'm still recovering from shoulder injuries, from a dog in the road that I hit with my bike in July, I'll unfortunately give you one more piece of advice or opinion: that witness may be worthless. Chances are, he won't testify against the Thai woman. Or, his testimony in a court of law (if you ever went that far) would be overcome by the Thai woman's false testimony, or by the false testimony of somebody the Thai woman pays to testify in her behalf. I think a lawyer would advise to never rely completely on one witness.

Sorry.

[Ausladyinpatong]

Sorry to hear about your accident. I agree with the advice of several others here that you should attempt to negotiate with the woman involved. Take someone with you. If it becomes too heated walk away.

A friend of mine is at the moment in a similar situation but managed to negotiate with the driver at fault, a Thai man, to share the cost of her medical expenses. Luckily for them no other parties were involved though.

I drive so slowly here in Phuket and this is why.

[gisele]

Sorry for your accident, hope you are feeling better.

I must agree with previous posts: live and learn.

She wasn't in an accident, you were.

Sometimes you can be lucky though, a friend of mine in Samui was riding his motorbike a few weeks back when 3 boys joy riding on their bike collided with his bike. They escaped unscathed but my friend flew into a ditch, he broke his wrist and suffered several bruises.

The father of one of the boys actually went to the hospital to pay the bill.

When I had an accident a few years back because some boys on their bike cut me off causing me to slide on the bit of sand on the road, nobody paid for my bills. The perpetrators just left the scene, they were fine, they turned around to see me lying on the road but they just went their merry way. From their point of view I figured they thought they weren't involved. So I thought to myself I just had to grin and bear it.

[thebounder]

I went out for a loaf today down the soi where my condo building, there is a 7/11 a few hundred meters.

On my way back a lady in a pickup pulled out in front of me causing me to brake hard and loose control of my honda blackbird, I was doing about 25kph going slowly, I missed her pickup but the bike went down and so did I, my buike ended up hitting 2 small motorbikes parked on the street, I ended up in hospital. I was dazzed at the scene and in quite a lot of pain with blood oozing from wounds everywhere, and was winded, the lady in the pickup got into her car and drove away, I tried to stop her but in my condition I was not able..........In then went to holspital for emergency treatment

when I got out of hospital I spoke with poilice man dealing with the incident and I gave him whatever details I had about her and explained what happened and that she left the scene, there was no damage to her car because I managed to avoid it, but my bike and the 2 parked bikes where damaged.........I gave the licence number of the lady's car to poilice man but he basically said he couldn't do anything as the number off plate was not enough.........this lady is german, she owns a bar/res off sukhumvit road near north pattaya road, the shop she was visiting to buy coffee refused to give me her name and phone number, shouldn't it be up to the police to find this out ? very easy really as she goes to the cooffee supplier many times and is well known. She left the scene of an accident before poluice arrive which in my books is an offence to start with, shouldn't the police man be doing the investigating to find this lady instead of me

Anyway, I have to go to police station tomorrow to make statement and police man said he will give me letter to give to her to attend the police station also, again shouldn't he be doing this.

Should I get legal councel involved in this, tghere are 3 claiments, me and the other two motorbike owners who are initially making a claim against me, although I managed to avoid hitting this ladies car she was the 100% cause of the incident, I have a witness that saw the whole thing, there where other people around that are unlikely to say anything as she was in their shop buying coffee.

What should I do

what should the police be doing

any help/advice would be very appriciated,

anyone recomend a good legal councel that wil be able to sort this mess out.

I couyld do nothing at the scene as I was injured.

In reality, over here, what this will come down to is who has the better contacts at the police station. The other party is also a farang from what you say so there will be no bias in favour of a Thai. The best thing you can do is find a friend with a good friend at the police station. Get an introduction and tell them about what happened. You may have to part with a little money, but you essentially need a warrant issuing for the German woman's arrest on the basis of your complaint against her (if you make a complaint to police, they usually will issue a warrant to get the other party to the station to find out their side). However, to most farangs the issue of an arrest warrent scares them to death. She will then probably contact you with a view to getting you to withdraw your complaint against her. Of course, you should only agree to do so once she pays for the damage. That is how things tend to work here and that is what you should be doing.

[mraitchison]

If you do decide to go down the road of persuing her you have to way up the consequences of making an enemy in the local area as well.

Even though you see it as her fault you never hit her so she didn't really do anything wrong.

[moonoi]

If you do decide to go down the road of persuing her you have to way up the consequences of making an enemy in the local area as well.

Even though you see it as her fault you never hit her so she didn't really do anything wrong.

How can you say she didn't really do anything wrong? She pulled out without looking and caused an accident. Just because the OP avoided hitting her doesn't absolve her of any blame....thats a crazy attitude!!!!

[mraitchison]

Wrong phrasing there then

She was not actually involved in the accident so even with witnesses how are you going to show that she caused it?

She may have pulled out but how do you know that the OP didn't over react and yank on the brakes hard sliding into the bikes. People pull out all the time here (sorry Ghkarnes just arguing a point here)

So every sonkran when the nice little tourists smash themselves up on the road/cars/kerb etc because Lek from Big Titties bar looked like she might throw water over him so he swerved to which caused him to crash that is her fault?

Guess the government will have to ban Songkran to keep the police reports down then won't they.

[Axel]

Hope gharknes for a speedy recovery and sorry that this happened.

Now the legal aspects, I would say her mistake the way you describe it. OTOH, in the police station, if she comes, we have two farang blaming each other. I doubt the police will be really interested, may be, may be not.

Originally, you said 25 kph than 25 miles per hour. May be a typo but the police might see it differently and blame you first for speeding. She will say, she saw you far away and sufficient distance to pull out safely for her, unless you were speeding.

Er, if you go on, how is your driving lience? Visa-status?

Did you have the headlight on while driving?

V.v. how is her visa-situation? Valid driving licence?

Above are points the police will first check.

I would first talk to her, to see a reaction.

If worse comes to worst, you sure can sue. If you win the case she might have to pay for damages which probably not even cover your solicitor's fees.

If your insurance company pays, leave it up to them, they most probably will not sue as legal cost seem to be exceeding the whole damage.

Sorry, but I see no better advise.

[Beachcomber]

Lots of good advice given already.

Just my own couple of Baht’s worth next time hit the car at least they will be stopped and have to offer explanation, not much but somehow don’t think you would have been any worse off.

At least the blame could be spread at the moment it’s only you. Not easy to ram a car but next tine think of your present situation and make a quick decision.

Not very helpful I agree but maybe something to think about.

Beachcomber.

[gburns57au]

The lady if questioned by you or the police will simply deny even being there....and as Beachcomber said...as she has no damage to her vehicle then what proof do you have...your word and a couple of witnesses...not enough my friend. If you had of hit her car indeed she would have to give her account. Then the police would determine the ratio of fault. At this point in time they have just your account and some damaged bikes...you admit to hitting the bikes and damaging them...the onus of proof is now on you...if the lady doesnt come forward, you are indeed stuffed.

Hope you get better soon though...sometimes it is a shitty place.

[Jeff1]

Couple of points to consider from your "statement".

but.....dont recon you have any chance and suggest you just get on with life....

...causing me to brake hard and loose control of my honda blackbird, I was doing about 25kph

and

I missed her pickup but the bike went down and so did I, my buike ended up hitting 2 small motorbikes parked on the street.....

and

I managed to avoid hitting this ladies car she was the 100% cause of the incident

and

... other people around that are unlikely to say anything as she was in their shop buying coffee.

and finally.....

I gave the licence number of the lady's car to poilice man but he basically said he couldn't do anything as the number off plate was not enough

Exactly .

YOU hit the bikes .

Not her .

YOU pay .

It just as easily could have been a bird that flew past your face and made you loose control .

Stick with vehicles that have 4 wheels , you will not fall down so much .

[kasi]

At the risk of being unsympathetic from the amount of damage described I strongly suspect speed in excess of 25 kph was a factor. A contributing factor appears to be a lack of defensive driving judging from this fellows inability to fess up.

Driving a motor bike is extremely dangerous. You can never assume someone sees you. You need to assume they don't see you.. Even then accidents happen.

The advice of live and learn is very sound.

Many aren't so lucky. Here in Phuket there are 12000+ accidents a year with fatalities in the 300+ range. If you don't think riding requires extreme care think again.

When you get on a motorbike you had better have plenty of skill and your wits about you. Either that or you better be feeling lucky. Maybe a little of both, do you feel lucky?

[moonoi]

At the risk of being unsympathetic from the amount of damage described I strongly suspect speed in excess of 25 kph was a factor. A contributing factor appears to be a lack of defensive driving judging from this fellows inability to fess up.

Driving a motor bike is extremely dangerous. You can never assume someone sees you. You need to assume they don't see you.. Even then accidents happen.

The advice of live and learn is very sound.

Many aren't so lucky. Here in Phuket there are 12000+ accidents a year with fatalities in the 300+ range. If you don't think riding requires extreme care think again.

When you get on a motorbike you had better have plenty of skill and your wits about you. Either that or you better be feeling lucky. Maybe a little of both, do you feel lucky?

Speed is only one factor in how much injury you suffer, how you make contact with the ground and what your wearing is also a big influence. If your wearing jeans or even worse shorts and a t-shirt even a low speed spill can cause a fair a mount of injury.

I've come off a bike at speed and walked away with no injuries, I've also come off at much slower speeds and suffered more bruises, aches and pains.

For the OP how do you know he wasn't almost level with the truck when it pulled out?

In that instance no amount of "defensive" riding is going to save you....2 choices hit the brakes and hope you avoid or crash into the truck. I know in the same situation I'd probably do the same thing, its just unfortunate for him that his bike slid on to hit 2 more scooters parked at the side of the road.

As for damage to the bike, if he hasn't got crash bungs fitted to the frame then what he describes is about the right kind of damage for a low speed spill on a sports tourer. Those fairings damage quite easily when they come into contact with the road.

I'm disappointed in many people here for immediately pointing the finger at the OPs' riding skills. It all very well to say you should assume noone in there tin can has seen you, but that doesn't remove the responsibilty from the driver of that tin can.

From the posts I've read here seems to me that I could cut someone up on the expressway causing that person to hit the brakes who in turn gets rear ended by the person behind him, a multiple pile up occurs behind me due to my careless driving, but it doesn't matter because although I caused the accident, I wasn't involved, didn't get hit so not my fault.......mad