stoffel45 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Of course, there is no connection with the recent re-arrest of Kamnan Poh.....is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiSold Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I thought it was legal? Then why is there a casino accross the road from where I live? Who would go to another country when you can already gamble in Thailand? I think someones having you guys on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) I could stick 200 Baht on red 27 for the missus. She gave me 200 Baht, I chose to stick it on a number and colour and won x amount of money. I decided to give my missus (by sheer coincidence) the same number as the winnings as a gift. You see where that might end up going. Where you get a country with crippling corruption and heavy gambling addictions, you get a black market. The whole point of legalising it is to get rid of this black market. You would have to make it legal for everyone. Otherwise, keep it illegal. Either way, it's just different groups of people making large amounts of money. The poor don't factor in the profits at all. Well, they add to the profits. This is just my opinion. Not saying it's anymore pertinent than yours. I think that is a very theorethical example. Do you honestly envision a large queue of thais standing outside the casino handing over large amounts of cash to foreigners to gamble with on their behalf, knowing full well that these foreigners could simply take the money, go into the casino, put the money in their pocket, have a few drinks and come out an hour later claiming they lost it all?? And regarding the poor not factoring in the profits, how about the thousands of staff it takes to build a casino, or the thousands of staff that are employed in a casino? Or how about the fact that casinos, as witnessed in Macau, bring lots of additional tourists, that would not otherwise have come. These tourists all need food, transport, hotels, nightlife, tour arrangements etc., which would employ additional thousands of staff. Then comes all the extra tax revenue, which will benefit all thais, even after government officials skim the first 30%, there is still 70% left for the rest of Thailand, which will benefit both rich and poor. I guess you couldn't see where things might end up going. I'm sure the criminal masterminds (foreign and Thai) would be able to create an intricate system which would allow Thais to gamble. Anyway, this wasn't the point. My point is that it has to be illegal or completely legal. Anything less than completely legal leaves the system open to abuse. The whole point in making it completely legal is so this doesn't happen. (Well, happens less anyway) As for the poor, sure, they'll be supplied with jobs, but the rich will still be the ones making all the real money. At least with it being made completely legal we might see more transparency. They might throw a school or hospital a fundraiser now and again. Ultimately, profits raised all fall into the same kind of pockets. The rich don't like sharing their money. Edited February 7, 2013 by rkidlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I thought it was legal? Then why is there a casino accross the road from where I live? Who would go to another country when you can already gamble in Thailand? I think someones having you guys on. The lottery and horse racing are the only legal forms of gambling in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycountry Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I could stick 200 Baht on red 27 for the missus. She gave me 200 Baht, I chose to stick it on a number and colour and won x amount of money. I decided to give my missus (by sheer coincidence) the same number as the winnings as a gift. You see where that might end up going. Where you get a country with crippling corruption and heavy gambling addictions, you get a black market. The whole point of legalising it is to get rid of this black market. You would have to make it legal for everyone. Otherwise, keep it illegal. Either way, it's just different groups of people making large amounts of money. The poor don't factor in the profits at all. Well, they add to the profits. This is just my opinion. Not saying it's anymore pertinent than yours. I think that is a very theorethical example. Do you honestly envision a large queue of thais standing outside the casino handing over large amounts of cash to foreigners to gamble with on their behalf, knowing full well that these foreigners could simply take the money, go into the casino, put the money in their pocket, have a few drinks and come out an hour later claiming they lost it all?? And regarding the poor not factoring in the profits, how about the thousands of staff it takes to build a casino, or the thousands of staff that are employed in a casino? Or how about the fact that casinos, as witnessed in Macau, bring lots of additional tourists, that would not otherwise have come. These tourists all need food, transport, hotels, nightlife, tour arrangements etc., which would employ additional thousands of staff. Then comes all the extra tax revenue, which will benefit all thais, even after government officials skim the first 30%, there is still 70% left for the rest of Thailand, which will benefit both rich and poor. I guess you couldn't see where things might end up going. I'm sure the criminal masterminds (foreign and Thai) would be able to create an intricate system which would allow Thais to gamble. Anyway, this wasn't the point. My point is that it has to be illegal or completely legal. Anything less than completely legal leaves the system open to abuse. The whole point in making it completely legal is so this doesn't happen. (Well, happens less anyway) As for the poor, sure, they'll be supplied with jobs, but the rich will still be the ones making all the real money. At least with it being made completely legal we might see more transparency. They might throw a school or hospital a fundraiser now and again. Ultimately, profits raised all fall into the same kind of pockets. The rich don't like sharing their money. I admit I do not understand your reasoning about the legal, partly legal, completely legal issue. Yes, those who will risk everything, even jail, in order to gamble, will probably find a way, but I bet you they are already sitting in a casino as we speak. The average thai gambler will not be entering a "foreigner only" casino though, especially if the casino can also be fined for breaking the rules. As for the revenue distribution. If all the money is imported from gambling foreigners, then what is better for the poor thais - or Thailand as a whole? To get 100% of nothing, or to get 20% of something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Mt Thaksin and others were talking to the operators of Macau casinos in 2005 with a view to opening Thailand's first casino in the Chiang Mai province, one of Mr Thaksin's sisters attended the meeting. The 2006 coup put an end to that. I think we can safely assume that negotiations are on again. And it makes sense,Thailand is bleeding gambling money to every other country that surrounds it. There are casinos in Burma and Lao? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycountry Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Mt Thaksin and others were talking to the operators of Macau casinos in 2005 with a view to opening Thailand's first casino in the Chiang Mai province, one of Mr Thaksin's sisters attended the meeting. The 2006 coup put an end to that. I think we can safely assume that negotiations are on again. And it makes sense,Thailand is bleeding gambling money to every other country that surrounds it. There are casinos in Burma and Lao? Dunno about Burma, but Laos yes. Just across the border, and as far as I know, Thai owned, and mainly for Thai gamblers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 When has gambling ever attracted "quality tourists" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxe1200 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 A dream will come true for TS and cronies, and it will plunge many Thai's deeper and deeper in gambling debts. As a previous poster said: the urge to gamble in this country is unbelievable. It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead. Do not forget these masses of mobile card gambling dens, working illegally in this country. Most of these businesses will face bankruptcy, while also a lot of policemen will lose some of their income. Besides Buddha disagreed with gambling, as you can read in "Sigalovada Sutta: The Buddha's Advice to Sigalaka". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunuel Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 As an advocate of sustainable tourism, I have very mixed feelings about the gaming industry. Personally, I find it very depressing, but I have seen a few examples of well-run casinos that have greatly benefitted local communities without damaging them environmentally or socially. Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun in the US and Sun City in South Africa are but three examples. Prohibition has never worked anywhere in the world.... however, since LOS dwells in a time and dimension of its own, banning gambling and prostitution has succeeded in the miraculous disappearance of these vices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I have mixed feelings about casinos. The effect on tourism would probably be greater on internal visits by Thais who currently visit the casinos scattered around the borders. Money would be kept within the country instead of lining the pockets of the police & politicians who currently are the main beneficiaries. And, yes, it could be taxed to ad to government revenues (more subsidies?). But would it contribute to more individual debt, more loan sharking, more crime? I think 'yes' to the first two and probably make no difference to the third. Would it reduce the number of illegal dens around the country? doubtful. I suspect that the idea will die again as there is a very significant number of Thais who are opposed & the fact that Thaksin was involved with the previous attempt won't help either. Uptheos - I'll offer you 2-1 against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belg Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 illegal casino's are in hands of the bib, if legal , they would be in hands of the local maffia, aka BIB but at least some % might go to the tax office ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) I could stick 200 Baht on red 27 for the missus. She gave me 200 Baht, I chose to stick it on a number and colour and won x amount of money. I decided to give my missus (by sheer coincidence) the same number as the winnings as a gift. You see where that might end up going. Where you get a country with crippling corruption and heavy gambling addictions, you get a black market. The whole point of legalising it is to get rid of this black market. You would have to make it legal for everyone. Otherwise, keep it illegal. Either way, it's just different groups of people making large amounts of money. The poor don't factor in the profits at all. Well, they add to the profits. This is just my opinion. Not saying it's anymore pertinent than yours. I think that is a very theorethical example. Do you honestly envision a large queue of thais standing outside the casino handing over large amounts of cash to foreigners to gamble with on their behalf, knowing full well that these foreigners could simply take the money, go into the casino, put the money in their pocket, have a few drinks and come out an hour later claiming they lost it all?? And regarding the poor not factoring in the profits, how about the thousands of staff it takes to build a casino, or the thousands of staff that are employed in a casino? Or how about the fact that casinos, as witnessed in Macau, bring lots of additional tourists, that would not otherwise have come. These tourists all need food, transport, hotels, nightlife, tour arrangements etc., which would employ additional thousands of staff. Then comes all the extra tax revenue, which will benefit all thais, even after government officials skim the first 30%, there is still 70% left for the rest of Thailand, which will benefit both rich and poor. I guess you couldn't see where things might end up going. I'm sure the criminal masterminds (foreign and Thai) would be able to create an intricate system which would allow Thais to gamble. Anyway, this wasn't the point. My point is that it has to be illegal or completely legal. Anything less than completely legal leaves the system open to abuse. The whole point in making it completely legal is so this doesn't happen. (Well, happens less anyway) As for the poor, sure, they'll be supplied with jobs, but the rich will still be the ones making all the real money. At least with it being made completely legal we might see more transparency. They might throw a school or hospital a fundraiser now and again. Ultimately, profits raised all fall into the same kind of pockets. The rich don't like sharing their money. I admit I do not understand your reasoning about the legal, partly legal, completely legal issue. Yes, those who will risk everything, even jail, in order to gamble, will probably find a way, but I bet you they are already sitting in a casino as we speak. The average thai gambler will not be entering a "foreigner only" casino though, especially if the casino can also be fined for breaking the rules. As for the revenue distribution. If all the money is imported from gambling foreigners, then what is better for the poor thais - or Thailand as a whole? To get 100% of nothing, or to get 20% of something? It's not about Thais entering foreign only casinos. It's about how if you make it legal for foreigners it will just create another black market where Thais will be able to gamble through foreigners. It wouldn't be that difficult to find a way around it. The casinos would in fact make it very easy for foreigners and Thais to do this because of how much money it would bring. Thais could still be gambling and technically not breaking the law. Again, this is not my point. My point is making it legal for foreigners and illegal for Thais defeats the purpose. Make it completely legal for all and then the money coming in and out can be monitored. Don't create another excuse for illegal gambling when the whole point it to get rid of it. Or keep it completely illegal. Edited February 7, 2013 by rkidlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim walker Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Great idea having a legitimate casino would be nice to have an occasional night out gambling for a bit of fun and hopefully it would be run and controlled by a proper legal established casino company, not by a few Thai billionaires who just want to use it for laundering money around the world, I don’t think it will be bad thing for normal Thai people because they will soon learn that you lose money in a casino you don’t make money, casinos are for making money for the owners not giving money away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If the government gets a cut of the action in the form of taxes from the gamblers , isn't this just voluntary taxation ? Well on top of them buying the odd Merc or Ferrari, I guess it's one way to get them to pay the bit they don't pay through evasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Okay then by all means, keep Thais throwing money away inside their own country but to what end? Using tourism as an excuse? Casino in Seoul. Foreign passport required for entry. Eezy Peezy. Right now, I think unenlightened tourists are the only ones with no access to gambling in Thailand. Anyone here more than a few weeks can find some action... Edited February 7, 2013 by impulse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyuk Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Long before the Casinos open their efect on the Thai people has to be considered seriously. With tens of thousand of working class Thai reeling in gabling debts that seem to average 100,000 to 200,000 Baht and the BIB largly dependent of the underground gambling for enough tea money to enter for promotional examinations Legal Casinos could fracture Thai Society. For god sake even the money illegal leanders would be in trouble when they can't call in their marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harleyd61 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 ahhhhh, dreams, dreams, dreams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimamey Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead. The only reason not to have casinos is because most thais think like you and have zero imagination. Easy ways to avoid what you describe: 1. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners to gamble. This would create lots of jobs for thais, and lots of tax revenue for the government, and not a single thai would lose any money. 2. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners and rich thais to gamble. Rich thais will gamble at casinos abroad anyway, so they might as well lose their money in thailand instead of abroad. At least this way part of the lost money will go to the Thai government as tax revenue, some of which will be redistributed to the poor, which should make everyone happy. Determining who is rich can easily be done by issuing a gambling license to rich thais based on an inspection of their assets, income, debt, taxes etc. The problem with your last option is that I expect that many rich Thais hide most of their income so they don't pay tax. Showing how much they really have would be a gamble in itself as they might suddenly have a tax bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Okay then by all means, keep Thais throwing money away inside their own country but to what end? Using tourism as an excuse? Casino in Seoul. Foreign passport required for entry. Eezy Peezy. Right now, I think unenlightened tourists are the only ones with no access to gambling in Thailand. Anyone here more than a few weeks can find some action... Seoul and Bangkok are apples and oranges. One will have it's fair share of corruption but has to be seen to be actively rooting it out, and then other one uses it as a business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Newman Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead. It is already happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theajarn Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Holy cow... gambling in Thailand was illegal????!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistachios Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 oh yes, let them open casinos with lots of poker tables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toscano Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It is one thing to introduce gambling , such as Casinos for foreign tourists . Gambling is a widespread disease in Thailand , that is the ruination of many families . I hear of a local woman who sold her family's farm of 60 rai , by the following morning she had gambled all the money away . A foreigner built his wife a lovely house , after a visit to his country , he returned and found strangers living in it . His wife had gambled to house away . Gambling is a tragedy in Thailand . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegum Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 When has gambling ever attracted "quality tourists" ? Yes, the summary sentence at the top of the article, "...action to legalise gaming, improve infrastructure and attract "quality" travellers...," contains an inherent contradiction, unless you take the inverted commas around the word "quality" at face value. The kind of "quality" that the tourism industry seeks in a tourist is the fiscal kind, not the kind that will see the tourist make a real positive contribution to Thailand. Remember that most of the money generated by legal gambling will go to the government through taxes and into the pockets of Thai elite and owners of the large multi-nationals that will run the casinos. So Thai society's only "quality" outcome will be with more menial jobs in the service sector (if they don't hire Cambodians and Burmese for the job) and more punters for bar-girls and prostitutes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johna Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Personally, means zero to me, casino's are boring and a waste of time but I think they should legalize gambling for a few reasons 1- good for tourism - check macau and vegas 2- Will help Thalland achieve their goal of being #1 on most corrupt list 3- Will ensure poor people stay poor and votes can be bought for casino chips 4- Will attract more dubious people to Thailand and will bring all their dubious money with them Than again ............. maybe .............. They could do the same as Singapore. Local citizens have to pay S$100 (US$80) a day or S$2,000 annually to enter the casinos. Foreigners enter free. It will be the other way around in Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattel Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 In my soi the most used shophouse is a bookies. When it first opened it ran for a few days and then was raided by the BiB and was closed down. A few days later it opened up again and has been operating without interference ever since. The few bars in the soi would be overjoyed if they ever got the number of customers this shophouse gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It is one thing to introduce gambling , such as Casinos for foreign tourists . Gambling is a widespread disease in Thailand , that is the ruination of many families . I hear of a local woman who sold her family's farm of 60 rai , by the following morning she had gambled all the money away . A foreigner built his wife a lovely house , after a visit to his country , he returned and found strangers living in it . His wife had gambled to house away . Gambling is a tragedy in Thailand . That is a one sided view. The people who own the casinos and the people who work for the casinos build the houses that the suckers who are the patrons of the casinos lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycountry Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 It's not about Thais entering foreign only casinos. It's about how if you make it legal for foreigners it will just create another black market where Thais will be able to gamble through foreigners. It wouldn't be that difficult to find a way around it. The casinos would in fact make it very easy for foreigners and Thais to do this because of how much money it would bring. Thais could still be gambling and technically not breaking the law. Again, this is not my point. My point is making it legal for foreigners and illegal for Thais defeats the purpose. Make it completely legal for all and then the money coming in and out can be monitored. Don't create another excuse for illegal gambling when the whole point it to get rid of it. Or keep it completely illegal. I don't think anyone gambling on anyone elses behalf will be a problem, but it should be fairly easy to find out, simply by asking the countries that already have "foreigner only" casinos about their experiences. Maybe I misunderstood the whole issue. I was not aware that the goal was to eliminate illegal gambling. I thought the goal was to create jobs and tax revenue. Perhaps then I agree with you. Poor thais will lose their homes to gambling in both legal and illegal casinos, no matter what. If allowed into the legal casino they will lose it there, and if not allowed in, they will lose it at the illegal casino! Monitoring the money is only relevant in regards to money laundering and taxes, neither of which involve the poor anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycountry Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Great idea having a legitimate casino would be nice to have an occasional night out gambling for a bit of fun and hopefully it would be run and controlled by a proper legal established casino company, not by a few Thai billionaires who just want to use it for laundering money around the world, I don’t think it will be bad thing for normal Thai people because they will soon learn that you lose money in a casino you don’t make money, casinos are for making money for the owners not giving money away. "I don’t think it will be bad thing for normal Thai people because they will soon learn that you lose money in a casino you don’t make money" I don't think a single Thai, or any other gambler will ever learn that lesson. First of all the average thai has no clue about math or statistics. If they play the lottery 100 times at 100 baht each time and then eventually win 1,000 baht, then they consider themselves extremely lucky (which I guess they are :-). Further, they have no idea about the odds of winning to begin with, which may be why the odds at the lotteries are so bad. At least the casino odds are much better. They believe their bike or car license plate or last nights dream is a lucky number, and obviously the odds of winning increase substantially if you gamble on that number. Not to mention that if you keep playing the same number over and over each month, then the odds obviously increase each time, and after having lost hundreds of times, you are almost guaranteed to win next time! Secondly, gambling is addictive, and for some people the only shot at a way out of trouble, so even if they do learn the lesson, they will do it anyway! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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