If There About 10% Of Thai-Chinese Descendants, Why Almost All Thais Celebrate The Chinese New Year?

[Will2011]

According to wikipedia it's 15% of thai population not 10% and they also produced 50% of the GNP, so why not?

And I haven't seen so many middle-class thai that don't have at least a bit of Chinese blood or some Chinese relatives.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Thai_Chinese

Btw, Less than 1% of Thais are christian, but they celebrate X'mas too.

Thank you for the precision. I"m unsure if 5 points make any difference though. As a matter fact, there are a lot of Muslims in Thailand as well as in England, but it doesn't mean that everybody is celebrating Islamic new year aka the end of the Ramadan.

Muslims are about 5% of total Thai population and most of them are in the 4 provinces down in the South. They are not blended well with Thai-Buddhist society unlike Chinese that been here for over 400 years and presented in every provinces and every level of society and Western influence that's considered COOL by Thais.

i thought there were 6m Muslims in Thailand (according to a Southern independent party!). Not to mention that Buddhists hardly accept Muslims as Thai citizens. They are not blended well maybe because they are oppressed. But anyway, there are some valid points in all the comments regarding business and wealth. Maybe also because Thais like to be identified as a more poshy "white" skin color attribute that are given to Chinese individuals?

[h90]

It'll be tough for the Northern Hemisphere chaps, with Ramadan in July this year coming. They're not even supposed to drink water, which is a bit arduous for the construction workers in the Middle East, although they work alternative hours to keep out of the heat of the mid-day sun. I didn't mind skipping lunch too much, and obviously the coffee-wallah didn't work, but I would've been quite unhappy to try to go the day at work without a drink of water.

SC

For the Ramadan there are a lot excuses. If you travel, work hard, pregnant, sick, be at war etc etc you can change the rules by yourself to anything you think is necessary. So for a construction worker there is no problem to drink something, even he could eat lunch if he think it is necessary, but he is not allowed if it is not necessary.

(I got it explained that way.....I take it is true)

[h90]

According to wikipedia it's 15% of thai population not 10% and they also produced 50% of the GNP, so why not?

And I haven't seen so many middle-class thai that don't have at least a bit of Chinese blood or some Chinese relatives.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Thai_Chinese

Btw, Less than 1% of Thais are christian, but they celebrate X'mas too.

Thank you for the precision. I"m unsure if 5 points make any difference though. As a matter fact, there are a lot of Muslims in Thailand as well as in England, but it doesn't mean that everybody is celebrating Islamic new year aka the end of the Ramadan.

Muslims are about 5% of total Thai population and most of them are in the 4 provinces down in the South. They are not blended well with Thai-Buddhist society unlike Chinese that been here for over 400 years and presented in every provinces and every level of society and Western influence that's considered COOL by Thais.

i thought there were 6m Muslims in Thailand (according to a Southern independent party!). Not to mention that Buddhists hardly accept Muslims as Thai citizens. They are not blended well maybe because they are oppressed. But anyway, there are some valid points in all the comments regarding business and wealth. Maybe also because Thais like to be identified as a more poshy "white" skin color attribute that are given to Chinese individuals?

Often Thais speak about Khun Thai or Khun Islam.....

There are a lot Muslim that are well integrated and almost don't know that they are Muslim, while there are others that don't want to blend in.

For example the General Sonthi who was the coup maker 2006 was a Muslim. One of the Police bosses is or was also Muslim (forgot the name).

I can't see where Muslims are oppressed in Thailand

[Will2011]

It'll be tough for the Northern Hemisphere chaps, with Ramadan in July this year coming. They're not even supposed to drink water, which is a bit arduous for the construction workers in the Middle East, although they work alternative hours to keep out of the heat of the mid-day sun. I didn't mind skipping lunch too much, and obviously the coffee-wallah didn't work, but I would've been quite unhappy to try to go the day at work without a drink of water.

SC

For the Ramadan there are a lot excuses. If you travel, work hard, pregnant, sick, be at war etc etc you can change the rules by yourself to anything you think is necessary. So for a construction worker there is no problem to drink something, even he could eat lunch if he think it is necessary, but he is not allowed if it is not necessary.

(I got it explained that way.....I take it is true)

It is true. However, it is noted that you have to make up those missed fasting times by 1st feed 40 poor people during the ramadan or fasting within the next 9 months or so.

[loong]

My daughter has just come home from school and announced that there is no school the first 3 days next week.

I can only assume that this is for Chinese new year even though it is not a national holiday.

As far as I am concerned it is just the teachers looking for any excuse to have extra days holiday as if they don't have enough days off as it is.

[StreetCowboy]

My daughter has just come home from school and announced that there is no school the first 3 days next week.

I can only assume that this is for Chinese new year even though it is not a national holiday.

As far as I am concerned it is just the teachers looking for any excuse to have extra days holiday as if they don't have enough days off as it is.

My bairns are off for mid-term next week, it being roughly the middle of the term and all. I think if CNY falls outside mid-term, they don't get any time off.

SC

[craigt3365]

Nice discussions on other religions, but let's try not to get too far off track.

[Rancid]

Yes, but I think that there are other factors maybe related to society and culture that play a major role.

Any cultural comments?

Not sure if it counts as cultural, but Thailand is ruled by the Chinese.

Could you elaborate?

80% of Thailand's commerce and wealth is controlled by 20 families--all of which are Thai-Chinese. Most of the wealth in mid-to-smaller cities in Thailand are also controlled by Thai-Chinese. When the purse strings of your community are controlled by the local Chinese, of course you will celebrate Chinese New Year!

Add to that infiltration into politics, bureaucracy and army and its a done deal. I suppose if you have ever lived in the provinces it is more obvious with the Chinese shops, liguor suppliers, rice mills etc. Often the general stores give the fertilizer and DDT on finance, bad year, they now own the land and the former owners become serfs. In many SE Asian countries there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment over similar occurences, however Thais don't seem to be bothered. Perhaps historically serfs to Chinese merchants or Thai Nobles offers the same deal. Don't get me wrong though this is not a an anti-Chinese rant, the Thais handed it all over through laziness, corruption and stupidity, their problem.

[Briggsy]

Most ethnic Thais I know make a definite point of not celebrating Chinese New Year.

Most businesses are Chinese so they make a big fuss and it is noticeable.

[h90]

Add to that infiltration into politics, bureaucracy and army and its a done deal. I suppose if you have ever lived in the provinces it is more obvious with the Chinese shops, liguor suppliers, rice mills etc. Often the general stores give the fertilizer and DDT on finance, bad year, they now own the land and the former owners become serfs. In many SE Asian countries there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment over similar occurences, however Thais don't seem to be bothered. Perhaps historically serfs to Chinese merchants or Thai Nobles offers the same deal. Don't get me wrong though this is not a an anti-Chinese rant, the Thais handed it all over through laziness, corruption and stupidity, their problem.

yes it is true, but when you look at people in business, the Chinese work hard and they spend all their money to educate their kids. While the Thai-Thais do things much more relaxed and loose. Fortunately or unfortunately the new rich kids are often so spoiled that the business goes down in the next generation.

From our old customer here in the second or third generation mostly women are the manager and it is an open secret that the son just party and drank so they gave the business to the daughter (different than in China).

Many are already half or quarter Chinese so it blends in the population.

[h90]

Most ethnic Thais I know make a definite point of not celebrating Chinese New Year.

Most businesses are Chinese so they make a big fuss and it is noticeable.

All my staff (one half Chinese) the others Bangkok or South declared themselves Chinese today. With a lot joking.

[arthurwait]

Add to that infiltration into politics, bureaucracy and army and its a done deal. I suppose if you have ever lived in the provinces it is more obvious with the Chinese shops, liguor suppliers, rice mills etc. Often the general stores give the fertilizer and DDT on finance, bad year, they now own the land and the former owners become serfs. In many SE Asian countries there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment over similar occurences, however Thais don't seem to be bothered. Perhaps historically serfs to Chinese merchants or Thai Nobles offers the same deal. Don't get me wrong though this is not a an anti-Chinese rant, the Thais handed it all over through laziness, corruption and stupidity, their problem.

yes it is true, but when you look at people in business, the Chinese work hard and they spend all their money to educate their kids. While the Thai-Thais do things much more relaxed and loose. Fortunately or unfortunately the new rich kids are often so spoiled that the business goes down in the next generation.

From our old customer here in the second or third generation mostly women are the manager and it is an open secret that the son just party and drank so they gave the business to the daughter (different than in China).

Many are already half or quarter Chinese so it blends in the population.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true !

[h90]

We have something arrive today, seafreight and just a minute ago the customs clearing lady (Chinese ethnic) called us that the customs (or some part or something related with the unloading, just something important for the customs clearing) is not working on Monday so she will clear it on Tuesday.

So the 100 % ethnic Chinese would work but the ethnic Thai don't.

(She would work on a day that is Christmas, birthday of Buddha, New Year, Sunday, the last day of the world and her birthday on the same date).

[MrRealDeal]

Add to that infiltration into politics, bureaucracy and army and its a done deal. I suppose if you have ever lived in the provinces it is more obvious with the Chinese shops, liguor suppliers, rice mills etc. Often the general stores give the fertilizer and DDT on finance, bad year, they now own the land and the former owners become serfs. In many SE Asian countries there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment over similar occurences, however Thais don't seem to be bothered. Perhaps historically serfs to Chinese merchants or Thai Nobles offers the same deal. Don't get me wrong though this is not a an anti-Chinese rant, the Thais handed it all over through laziness, corruption and stupidity, their problem.

yes it is true, but when you look at people in business, the Chinese work hard and they spend all their money to educate their kids. While the Thai-Thais do things much more relaxed and loose. Fortunately or unfortunately the new rich kids are often so spoiled that the business goes down in the next generation.

From our old customer here in the second or third generation mostly women are the manager and it is an open secret that the son just party and drank so they gave the business to the daughter (different than in China).

Many are already half or quarter Chinese so it blends in the population.

Thats a myth thats not even remotely supported by any facts ..... The Paris Hiltons of the world very rarely lose their buisness no matter how "spolied" they are.

[Will2011]

Great comments so far. I have learned something. Thank you for your contributions.

[arthurwait]

Add to that infiltration into politics, bureaucracy and army and its a done deal. I suppose if you have ever lived in the provinces it is more obvious with the Chinese shops, liguor suppliers, rice mills etc. Often the general stores give the fertilizer and DDT on finance, bad year, they now own the land and the former owners become serfs. In many SE Asian countries there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment over similar occurences, however Thais don't seem to be bothered. Perhaps historically serfs to Chinese merchants or Thai Nobles offers the same deal. Don't get me wrong though this is not a an anti-Chinese rant, the Thais handed it all over through laziness, corruption and stupidity, their problem.

yes it is true, but when you look at people in business, the Chinese work hard and they spend all their money to educate their kids. While the Thai-Thais do things much more relaxed and loose. Fortunately or unfortunately the new rich kids are often so spoiled that the business goes down in the next generation.

From our old customer here in the second or third generation mostly women are the manager and it is an open secret that the son just party and drank so they gave the business to the daughter (different than in China).

Many are already half or quarter Chinese so it blends in the population.

Thats a myth thats not even remotely supported by any facts ..... The Paris Hiltons of the world very rarely lose their buisness no matter how "spolied" they are.

You're thinking too big. Look at all the closed down petrol stations.

[jpinx]

The OP's assumption that there are only 10% of the population of chinese descent in Thailand is seriously suspect......

[Will2011]

The OP's assumption that there are only 10% of the population of chinese descent in Thailand is seriously suspect......

Not as suspect as your meaningful comment. In an earlier comment, a poster pointed out that the number was 15% retrieved from Wikipedia.

[h90]

Add to that infiltration into politics, bureaucracy and army and its a done deal. I suppose if you have ever lived in the provinces it is more obvious with the Chinese shops, liguor suppliers, rice mills etc. Often the general stores give the fertilizer and DDT on finance, bad year, they now own the land and the former owners become serfs. In many SE Asian countries there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment over similar occurences, however Thais don't seem to be bothered. Perhaps historically serfs to Chinese merchants or Thai Nobles offers the same deal. Don't get me wrong though this is not a an anti-Chinese rant, the Thais handed it all over through laziness, corruption and stupidity, their problem.

yes it is true, but when you look at people in business, the Chinese work hard and they spend all their money to educate their kids. While the Thai-Thais do things much more relaxed and loose. Fortunately or unfortunately the new rich kids are often so spoiled that the business goes down in the next generation.

From our old customer here in the second or third generation mostly women are the manager and it is an open secret that the son just party and drank so they gave the business to the daughter (different than in China).

Many are already half or quarter Chinese so it blends in the population.

Thats a myth thats not even remotely supported by any facts ..... The Paris Hiltons of the world very rarely lose their buisness no matter how "spolied" they are.

I doubt that Paris Hilton controls the Hilton empire, but I don't about that.

On the small and medium enterprise level I see a lot problems. Hilton isn't small, so they are able to just hire management.

[StreetCowboy]

Add to that infiltration into politics, bureaucracy and army and its a done deal. I suppose if you have ever lived in the provinces it is more obvious with the Chinese shops, liguor suppliers, rice mills etc. Often the general stores give the fertilizer and DDT on finance, bad year, they now own the land and the former owners become serfs. In many SE Asian countries there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment over similar occurences, however Thais don't seem to be bothered. Perhaps historically serfs to Chinese merchants or Thai Nobles offers the same deal. Don't get me wrong though this is not a an anti-Chinese rant, the Thais handed it all over through laziness, corruption and stupidity, their problem.

yes it is true, but when you look at people in business, the Chinese work hard and they spend all their money to educate their kids. While the Thai-Thais do things much more relaxed and loose. Fortunately or unfortunately the new rich kids are often so spoiled that the business goes down in the next generation.

From our old customer here in the second or third generation mostly women are the manager and it is an open secret that the son just party and drank so they gave the business to the daughter (different than in China).

Many are already half or quarter Chinese so it blends in the population.

Thats a myth thats not even remotely supported by any facts ..... The Paris Hiltons of the world very rarely lose their buisness no matter how "spolied" they are.

You're thinking too big. Look at all the closed down petrol stations.

My apologies for that. There's two more to go.

[h90]

The OP's assumption that there are only 10% of the population of chinese descent in Thailand is seriously suspect......

Not as suspect as your meaningful comment. In an earlier comment, a poster pointed out that the number was 15% retrieved from Wikipedia.

question is what is Chinese descent? pure, half, quarter?

[jpinx]

The OP's assumption that there are only 10% of the population of chinese descent in Thailand is seriously suspect......

Not as suspect as your meaningful comment. In an earlier comment, a poster pointed out that the number was 15% retrieved from Wikipedia.

Guilty as charged - I didn't read the whole thread.

I would dispute wikipedia on this (and many other things) because my experience of meeting people in Thailand has shown me a great pride of families claiming to be 5th or 6th generation chinese immigrants.

One also has to bear in mind the true history of the population of Thailand and where they came from, especially in the far north and northeast.

[Will2011]

No. I meant people who are descended from a Chinese ancestor. That defines descendant.

[Will2011]

The OP's assumption that there are only 10% of the population of chinese descent in Thailand is seriously suspect......

Not as suspect as your meaningful comment. In an earlier comment, a poster pointed out that the number was 15% retrieved from Wikipedia.

Guilty as charged - I didn't read the whole thread.

I would dispute wikipedia on this (and many other things) because my experience of meeting people in Thailand has shown me a great pride of families claiming to be 5th or 6th generation chinese immigrants.

One also has to bear in mind the true history of the population of Thailand and where they came from, especially in the far north and northeast.

Yes. That's the meaning of descendants

[jpinx]

No. I meant people who are descended from a Chinese ancestor. That defines descendant.

What's your definition's difference to a chinese family who came to live inThailand 5 generations ago?

[jpinx]

Without resorting to dubious sources such as wikipedia, it appears to be self-evident that a large proportion of thai's are closely if not directly descended from "chinese" - but one has to be careful about the definition of "chinese" too

[Will2011]

Without resorting to dubious sources such as wikipedia, it appears to be self-evident that a large proportion of thai's are closely if not directly descended from "chinese" - but one has to be careful about the definition of "chinese" too

Ethnically speaking, it is very possible. But I was more focused on immigrants from Chinese individuals (not how Thais were "created").

[DP25]

No. I meant people who are descended from a Chinese ancestor. That defines descendant.

Well, Thais as an ethnic group are from Southern China (Yunnan and Guangxi) and migrated to this region so they are all from there if you go back far enough. The largest ethnic minority in China is the Zhuang people, about 20 million people who speak a language closely related to Thai, they are the Thais that stayed home instead of moving south. There has also been a steady stream of immigrants for hundreds of years so many people will have a distant connection to China, even if it is not recent or specific enough for them to consider themselves part Chinese. I imagine the 15% number is just those with recent ancestor from there, like those who can still remember a Chinese speaking relative in the family.

[jpinx]

The thread is concerning New Year celebrations. It is not unreasonable to consider the western New Year as being over 2000 years old, so if you go back that far in Thailand you find the southern immigrants from china.

Most of the surveys seem to judge "chinese-ness" by what language they use as their first language...

Thai Chinese make up 14 percent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Thailand

Interesting discourse on the topìc -- sorry for the ugly url

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=1ahZjWKW3Z0C&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227&dq=chinese+thai+proportions+population&source=bl&ots=Wv4SVxp0WR&sig=hNlV_QSAHIckkIYgC3UEQh5ebb8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sxQVUar5NYqyrAeL74DoDA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=chinese%20thai%20proportions%20population&f=false

[Choonpon]

Any chinese descendants here?

祝大家新年快乐,心想事成!