52,000 Thai Workers Lose Jobs From Minimum Wage Hike

[noob7]

"34,408 had yet to be formally notified of their employment termination by their employers"

This means to me, they (workers) knowing about it, but still didn't get the (formal) paper note, to show to the government office

[BrianCR]

in the mean time we are looking for workers and cannot find any .. how silly is that ?

Same same here.....and even worse with skilled worker

Here in Chiang Rai it is almost impossible to get workers, they all went to other provinces when the government first offered 300 baht min - now (I suspect) some are amongst the many getting laid off. With the price increases affecting us and many other SMEs it's truth to say that we will not be looking for too many anyway!

[BrianCR]

Just wondering, who is doing the work of all this people, now.

Illegals?

No one?

But it's just to expect.

In the western world, a rise in minimum salary is affecting jobs from the minority of people, only

In Thailand, it is affecting the majority of all employeed people.

And with the price rally, it is affecting everyone in the kingdome!

That's not true, in France almost everyone has the minimum salary.

But that minimum salary is not rising by 30% in a year. It get checked year by year and corrected 'nit noi'.

Actually, it's even higher per hour, than in Thailand per day.

Also I'm pretty sure, that 'almost everyone has the minimum salary' does include all the people, who earn 'a bit' more, as 9.4€/h

I doubt if anyone objects to a minimum salary the problem in Thailand is a 33% increase in one lump sum. Now if any government in the west even had an idea of 33% increase in one swoop i think that you would find a lot of companies re-locating to lower paid countries and massive unemployment - as is about to happen here! The sensible way surely, would have been in give reasonable gradual pay increases allowing both the general public and SMEs to adjust slowly. Remember SMEs are faced with higher salaries and higher purchasing prices but you try increasing your retail price to cover it (or even part of it) and it's not long before you start to realize that your customer data base is rapidly dwindling!

[muttley]

I like the bit that 20% resigned, presumably because their bosses refused to put the wages up. I am personally aware of a small Thai business refusing to comply because of the tea money they have to pay the local fuzz for their illegal immigrant staff means they cant afford to. They jammed their pricesup too tho.

I would venture to say there is a lot of people who will not receive the hike in pay. Some thing the Thai government will silently slip under the rug.

Well you can't really blame the PTP for a company

"refusing to comply because of the tea money they have to pay the local fuzz for their illegal immigrant staff means they cant afford to"

[me313]

I heard on the BBC news that China is going to implement a similar minimum wage hike. It appears as if this is an ASEAN endeavor, and exactly what goal do these hemispheric leaders have in mind? Mass unemployment in China, Thailand, and which Asian country is next? Meanwhile, low wages and cheap workers in the newly opened Burma will see mass investment in that country.

Connect the dots to Austerity measures in Europa, and the high unemployment and economic bubble bursts in America, and you have a worldwide crisis of unemployed miserable people. Many civil wars and ethnic cleansings going on in Africa. Let's throw into the recipe the mass protests in Tunesia and Egypt with their discordant factions in the Middle East, and then add a sprinkle of conspiracy theory of the "haves and have-nots" and what concoction do we have worldwide?

[maximillian]

What was the minimum before that ? Maybe 200 or 250 or 280 THB ? An increase of max 100 THB a day ? Methinks, a company that cannot afford that amount a day should better get off the market altogether.

10 USD a day x 24 = 240 USD a month. Veeeeery little, even for Thai standard. Take one liter of gas for 40 THB... that means these people are supposed to work for 7.5 liters of gas a day, very often under veeeery inhuman conditions.

I knew a young lady working in a Japanese owned factory for 19 THB an hour, overtime was payed only 16 THB. Three shifts, six days a week, 7 off-days a year, hardly time to go to the loo or to eat in the cantina. Shame on extortion.

[muttley]

Just wondering, who is doing the work of all this people, now.

Illegals?

No one?

But it's just to expect.

In the western world, a rise in minimum salary is affecting jobs from the minority of people, only

In Thailand, it is affecting the majority of all employeed people.

And with the price rally, it is affecting everyone in the kingdome!

That's not true, in France almost everyone has the minimum salary.

But that minimum salary is not rising by 30% in a year. It get checked year by year and corrected 'nit noi'.

Actually, it's even higher per hour, than in Thailand per day.

Also I'm pretty sure, that 'almost everyone has the minimum salary' does include all the people, who earn 'a bit' more, as 9.4€/h

I doubt if anyone objects to a minimum salary the problem in Thailand is a 33% increase in one lump sum. Now if any government in the west even had an idea of 33% increase in one swoop i think that you would find a lot of companies re-locating to lower paid countries and massive unemployment - as is about to happen here! The sensible way surely, would have been in give reasonable gradual pay increases allowing both the general public and SMEs to adjust slowly. Remember SMEs are faced with higher salaries and higher purchasing prices but you try increasing your retail price to cover it (or even part of it) and it's not long before you start to realize that your customer data base is rapidly dwindling!

Perhaps the people who are moaning are the ones who haven't paid their staff a decent minimum wage for the 10 years since it was last raised and who have known about the required increase since the election, yet were happy enough to profit from very low workers wages and kept up the profit margin of their products up until now?

[noob7]

For me, the main reason is, that the majority of workers in Thailand did not get more, than the minimum salary. And than a increase of 30% is, eh, stupid! If it would cover only a minority, it would'nt have affected everyone. This minority would be bigger now, because many people, paid over an old minimum pay, would be in the minimum pay scheme, this days, But still that would get corrected step by step.

On Phuket's west coast, most hotels did change nothing in numbers. They only calculated the salary higher, but the service charge and the tips is not that much, anymore. About 3k less/month

And this year, they paid another 3k more for the degree holder.

But I think, they try to rise the prices, too, aren't they?

What I would like to know, and can't find it:

How many people with a university degree lost their job?

The minimum salary for them is even higher, as 300 baht.

For the very same job.

Any numbers available about that?

[SICHONSTEVE]

34,408 had yet to be formally notified of their employment termination by their employers.

Huh?

A nice new years present for those affected!!

I hope that a high majority of them are Pheu Thai voters as they are to blame!!!

[rubl]

But that minimum salary is not rising by 30% in a year. It get checked year by year and corrected 'nit noi'.

Actually, it's even higher per hour, than in Thailand per day.

Also I'm pretty sure, that 'almost everyone has the minimum salary' does include all the people, who earn 'a bit' more, as 9.4€/h

I doubt if anyone objects to a minimum salary the problem in Thailand is a 33% increase in one lump sum. Now if any government in the west even had an idea of 33% increase in one swoop i think that you would find a lot of companies re-locating to lower paid countries and massive unemployment - as is about to happen here! The sensible way surely, would have been in give reasonable gradual pay increases allowing both the general public and SMEs to adjust slowly. Remember SMEs are faced with higher salaries and higher purchasing prices but you try increasing your retail price to cover it (or even part of it) and it's not long before you start to realize that your customer data base is rapidly dwindling!

Perhaps the people who are moaning are the ones who haven't paid their staff a decent minimum wage for the 10 years since it was last raised and who have known about the required increase since the election, yet were happy enough to profit from very low workers wages and kept up the profit margin of their products up until now?

Totally agree. Those companies really deserve to go broke, allegedly that is. Of course that leaves us with a handful of unemployed, less than minimum wage workers. Well, at least having reached bottom they can't go lower, can they?

Such a good feeling, feeling empathy for workers

[muttley]

But that minimum salary is not rising by 30% in a year. It get checked year by year and corrected 'nit noi'.

Actually, it's even higher per hour, than in Thailand per day.

Also I'm pretty sure, that 'almost everyone has the minimum salary' does include all the people, who earn 'a bit' more, as 9.4€/h

I doubt if anyone objects to a minimum salary the problem in Thailand is a 33% increase in one lump sum. Now if any government in the west even had an idea of 33% increase in one swoop i think that you would find a lot of companies re-locating to lower paid countries and massive unemployment - as is about to happen here! The sensible way surely, would have been in give reasonable gradual pay increases allowing both the general public and SMEs to adjust slowly. Remember SMEs are faced with higher salaries and higher purchasing prices but you try increasing your retail price to cover it (or even part of it) and it's not long before you start to realize that your customer data base is rapidly dwindling!

Perhaps the people who are moaning are the ones who haven't paid their staff a decent minimum wage for the 10 years since it was last raised and who have known about the required increase since the election, yet were happy enough to profit from very low workers wages and kept up the profit margin of their products up until now?

Totally agree. Those companies really deserve to go broke, allegedly that is. Of course that leaves us with a handful of unemployed, less than minimum wage workers. Well, at least having reached bottom they can't go lower, can they?

Such a good feeling, feeling empathy for workers

Well you had to get a dig in at the end - shame you don't know anything about me and my "empathy for workers" or my background, just you being your usual smug self with your smug comments.

Edited February 12, 2013 by muttley

[Rosco911]

in the mean time we are looking for workers and cannot find any .. how silly is that ?

Care to fill us in on what your wants are.

Would discharged 7/11 employes fill the slots you are looking to fill or are you looking for rocket scientists.

You really have nothing meaningful in your statement. Give some tips on what you are looking for.

I am looking for welders and fitters in Chiang Mai area.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Rosco911

[AleG]

Perhaps the people who are moaning are the ones who haven't paid their staff a decent minimum wage for the 10 years since it was last raised and who have known about the required increase since the election, yet were happy enough to profit from very low workers wages and kept up the profit margin of their products up until now?

The minimum wage has been raised yearly by a tripartite committee, where are you getting all your (wrong) information?

[coma]

Couldn't half see this coming. Coupled with the knock on inflation effect I guess even more people will be looking to make a buck the illegal way. Excellent ! More crime. Just what this place needs.

[rubl]

Perhaps the people who are moaning are the ones who haven't paid their staff a decent minimum wage for the 10 years since it was last raised and who have known about the required increase since the election, yet were happy enough to profit from very low workers wages and kept up the profit margin of their products up until now?

Totally agree. Those companies really deserve to go broke, allegedly that is. Of course that leaves us with a handful of unemployed, less than minimum wage workers. Well, at least having reached bottom they can't go lower, can they?

Such a good feeling, feeling empathy for workers

Well you had to get a dig in at the end - shame you don't know anything about me and my "empathy for workers" or my background, just you being your usual smug self with your smug comments.

Correct I don't know much about you, dear dog. Only that your '10 years since last raised' is way off the mark and suggests you don't know the history of minimum wages in Thailand.

Now last year in a discussion with (sadly) departed members phiphidon and tlansford I delved into it and posted minimum wage levels over the last five or six years. I'm not going to do that again. Just seach and try to find to be enlightened (again) on this particular subject.

Edited February 12, 2013 by rubl

[NCFC]

A Thai friend runs an employment agency in Ayuddhya serving the manufacturing companies. From his published advertisements a new employee will earn between 17k-20k per month for eight hour standard day plus 4 hour OT, six days per week.

Allowing for OT earnings at +50%standard rate that is about 405-476 baht per day.

So any talk of mass layoffs because of the 300 baht per day rule is nonsence as the market is above this rate anyway. And another point, even at 400+ baht a day, the factories are employing huge numbers of aliens (many legally, as I've seen piles of Cambodian passports with workpermits in the office) because they can't fufil the labour requirements using only Thai labour.

[belg]

do you get compensation here if you resign ? only CEO's get golden parachutes for quitting in western countries...

[Osiris]

The big picture, as I see it, is this as the beginning of a domino effect situation. The people who have lost, or will lose their jobs, contribute to the economy, or at least, used to contribute. The purchases and payments they can no longer make, will effect even more people. But this is just one facet. It's going to get worse! Count on it!

[SICHONSTEVE]

A Thai friend runs an employment agency in Ayuddhya serving the manufacturing companies. From his published advertisements a new employee will earn between 17k-20k per month for eight hour standard day plus 4 hour OT, six days per week.

Allowing for OT earnings at +50%standard rate that is about 405-476 baht per day.

So any talk of mass layoffs because of the 300 baht per day rule is nonsence as the market is above this rate anyway. And another point, even at 400+ baht a day, the factories are employing huge numbers of aliens (many legally, as I've seen piles of Cambodian passports with workpermits in the office) because they can't fufil the labour requirements using only Thai labour.

I don't see how you can make this between 400 and 500 baht/day as if they worked for 7 days a week without OT on a 31 day month on the higher figure of 500 baht per day they would only be earning 15,500 baht/month!!!!!

[Osiris]

A Thai friend runs an employment agency in Ayuddhya serving the manufacturing companies. From his published advertisements a new employee will earn between 17k-20k per month for eight hour standard day plus 4 hour OT, six days per week.

Allowing for OT earnings at +50%standard rate that is about 405-476 baht per day.

So any talk of mass layoffs because of the 300 baht per day rule is nonsence as the market is above this rate anyway. And another point, even at 400+ baht a day, the factories are employing huge numbers of aliens (many legally, as I've seen piles of Cambodian passports with workpermits in the office) because they can't fufil the labour requirements using only Thai labour.

I used to know a close family member of a person in a town "close" to Ayuddhya, who has a company that supplies labor for manufacturing companies, and all of this persons labor is illegal.... Girls lie...

[dighambara]

in the mean time we are looking for workers and cannot find any .. how silly is that ?

Every minimum wage hike in te US did much the same - pushed more and more people out of work.

Once on the dole, people tend to stay on the dole - USA is an excellent example.

Socialism of this sort is not the way to go...

[khunken]

A Thai friend runs an employment agency in Ayuddhya serving the manufacturing companies. From his published advertisements a new employee will earn between 17k-20k per month for eight hour standard day plus 4 hour OT, six days per week.

Allowing for OT earnings at +50%standard rate that is about 405-476 baht per day.

So any talk of mass layoffs because of the 300 baht per day rule is nonsence as the market is above this rate anyway. And another point, even at 400+ baht a day, the factories are employing huge numbers of aliens (many legally, as I've seen piles of Cambodian passports with workpermits in the office) because they can't fufil the labour requirements using only Thai labour.

Ayutthiya is not Thailand. The industrial estates there have many large multi-national companies such as Canon & the discussion is not really about those types of companies.

It's about SMEs & there is no doubt that some will go out of business, some will lay off workers & some will pay bribes so as not to pay the minimum wage. I agree with you that there will not be mass layoffs but the Op shows that there are enough to be concerned about.

There are two problems with the policy. One is that it should have been implemented gradually & the other is that absolutely no effort has been made to raise the level of worker skill levels & productivity. It was just an election gimmick with no effort made to foresee the obvious consequences.

[Amras]

The big picture, as I see it, is this as the beginning of a domino effect situation. The people who have lost, or will lose their jobs, contribute to the economy, or at least, used to contribute. The purchases and payments they can no longer make, will effect even more people. But this is just one facet. It's going to get worse! Count on it!

I doubt many of these people on the minimum wage, have much residual money to spend on luxuries. I would be guessing (logically) that most if not all, goes towards food and shelter and that's about it.

I disagree with people who constantly say a Thai can live on 200-250 baht per day. It's borderline survival. Not living.

I also agree that multinationals or companies that are exporting say they can't afford the wage increase is bullshit. We hear the same everywhere, in every country.

If you are serving the local community, it is different, but no different elsewhere, where running your own business with employees is hard, when you have high salaries you have to pay, high overheads etc.

I think people just got used to the cheap cheap labour and don't want to have a greater expense than they are used to. For a Thai on minimum way life is hard. Nothing is that cheap here, if you look at it from the viewpoint of someone earning 300 baht a day.

[SICHONSTEVE]

in the mean time we are looking for workers and cannot find any .. how silly is that ?

Every minimum wage hike in te US did much the same - pushed more and more people out of work.

Once on the dole, people tend to stay on the dole - USA is an excellent example.

Socialism of this sort is not the way to go...

I partially agree with your last point (especially in the way that this Thai government has implemented it). However, exploitation of the workers is a greater evil in my mind!!

[Phatcharanan]

Are there skilled workers in the kingdom? It seems we missed something....

Nope...........only you appparently

[SICHONSTEVE]

The big picture, as I see it, is this as the beginning of a domino effect situation. The people who have lost, or will lose their jobs, contribute to the economy, or at least, used to contribute. The purchases and payments they can no longer make, will effect even more people. But this is just one facet. It's going to get worse! Count on it!

I doubt many of these people on the minimum wage, have much residual money to spend on luxuries. I would be guessing (logically) that most if not all, goes towards food and shelter and that's about it.

I disagree with people who constantly say a Thai can live on 200-250 baht per day. It's borderline survival. Not living.

I also agree that multinationals or companies that are exporting say they can't afford the wage increase is bullshit. We hear the same everywhere, in every country.

If you are serving the local community, it is different, but no different elsewhere, where running your own business with employees is hard, when you have high salaries you have to pay, high overheads etc.

I think people just got used to the cheap cheap labour and don't want to have a greater expense than they are used to. For a Thai on minimum way life is hard. Nothing is that cheap here, if you look at it from the viewpoint of someone earning 300 baht a day.

................but if neighbouring countries with equally skilled (perhaps better and hard working employee's) having pay scales well below that of Thailand's then where are new investors going to set up shop???? or worse still, make it worthwhile for them to leave Thailand and build their plants elsewhere - result in both cases? less jobs in Thailand and increased employment in those benefitting countries.

[noob7]

The minimum wage has been raised yearly by a tripartite committee, where are you getting all your (wrong) information?

Oh, that would be news to me, too.

You have a link to the minimum salaries list over the last 10 years?

[Osiris]

The big picture, as I see it, is this as the beginning of a domino effect situation. The people who have lost, or will lose their jobs, contribute to the economy, or at least, used to contribute. The purchases and payments they can no longer make, will effect even more people. But this is just one facet. It's going to get worse! Count on it!

I doubt many of these people on the minimum wage, have much residual money to spend on luxuries. I would be guessing (logically) that most if not all, goes towards food and shelter and that's about it.

I disagree with people who constantly say a Thai can live on 200-250 baht per day. It's borderline survival. Not living.

I also agree that multinationals or companies that are exporting say they can't afford the wage increase is bullshit. We hear the same everywhere, in every country.

If you are serving the local community, it is different, but no different elsewhere, where running your own business with employees is hard, when you have high salaries you have to pay, high overheads etc.

I think people just got used to the cheap cheap labour and don't want to have a greater expense than they are used to. For a Thai on minimum way life is hard. Nothing is that cheap here, if you look at it from the viewpoint of someone earning 300 baht a day.

Amras, respectfully, maybe you should have posted to the topic, and not to what I wrote. I did not qualify the incomes of the people, and I believe most of those affected do live hand to mouth, and when the rent is not paid, they have to move. The effect is, there are lower building occupancy ratios, and less money to pay the mortgage. In an over built city like Bangkok, that, and the loss of the jobs, puts pricing pressure on the market, which increases defaults on all kinds of loans. Many of the new cars recently bought...are going to be repo'd All of this decreases the banks profits, and they don't like that. Strap in, hold on, it's going to get bumpy!

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use has been removed. It is generally accepted, but not written into law, that quoting the first two or three sentences of an article and giving a link to the source is considered “fair use” and not a violation of copyright.

[rubl]

The minimum wage has been raised yearly by a tripartite committee, where are you getting all your (wrong) information?

Oh, that would be news to me, too.

You have a link to the minimum salaries list over the last 10 years?

From my archive, collected with blood, sweat and tears and only to please TV members

2005-08-01 ??

2006-01-01 Bangkok 184

2007-01-01 Bangkok 191, Nan 143

2008-01-01 Bangkok 194, ChiangMai 159, Chiangrai 146

2008-06-01 Bangkok 203, ChiangMai 168, Chayaphum 148

2010-01-01 Bangkok 206, ChiangMai 171, Phayao 151

2011-01-01 Phuket 221, Bangkok 215, ChiangMai 180, Phayao 159

2012-04-01 seven provinces including Bangkok 300 B/d, rest 40% increase

2013-01-01 all provinces 300 Baht/day

Disclaimer: correct as far as I know and have verified, guarantee expired just after writing this down