The Importance Of Preparing A Will In Thailand

[topt]

Of interest to Brits who still believe in that 'DIY' baloney re wills:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34462706

Sorry but do not understand what that video clip has to do with DIY wills?

The headline is that more and more wills are being contested - nowhere does it give any detail about people losing out because they have DIY'd it.........or am I missing something?

[evadgib]

If a proper will can be contested how well do you think one written on the back of a fag packet will fare?

Edited October 9, 2015 by evadgib

[dageurreotype]

Of interest to Brits who still believe in that 'DIY' baloney re wills:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34462706

Sorry but do not understand what that video clip has to do with DIY wills?

The headline is that more and more wills are being contested - nowhere does it give any detail about people losing out because they have DIY'd it.........or am I missing something?

In the UK, the annual Law Society's Dinner raises a toast to 'The Man Who Made His Own Will'. Draw your own conclusions

[tgeezer]

I have only one will held in the UK . It specifies assets in Thailand(800,00Bt for retirement extension) these need to be disclosed to assess inheritance tax in UK. They are part of my estate and I would hope that the bank would accept my will and repatriate my beneficiary's money. The less paperwork the less can be made of it. Two wills seems like a recipe for making things as complicated as possible. If Thai law says that a tourists property becomes Thai property on their death in Thailand so be it.

[tgeezer]

Of interest to Brits who still believe in that 'DIY' baloney re wills:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34462706

Sorry but do not understand what that video clip has to do with DIY wills?

The headline is that more and more wills are being contested - nowhere does it give any detail about people losing out because they have DIY'd it.........or am I missing something?

In the UK, the annual Law Society's Dinner raises a toast to 'The Man Who Made His Own Will'. Draw your own conclusions

The conclusion one must draw from this is that lawyers are only in it for the money, no surprises there!

[chiang mai]

Just one thought on Thai wills:

Many of us will leave (some of/all of) our assets to our spouse or partner in Thailand hence that person is probably named as the beneficiary in our Thai will.

But if our spouse/partner and our good self die at the same time, say in a road traffic accident, how many of us have actually written into our wills a plan B scenario, it might say something like, " and if person A does not succeed me for more than 30 days beyond my death, my assets should go to person B".

Just a thought, because if your named person does dies when you do, your assets are likely to go to her family or the Thai government.

FWIW even the best lawyers is Thailand often miss this aspect, my bet is that most of you out there have also so now is a good time to fix it.

[rekkie]

To get a will done by yourselves at the local Amphur is very cheap. Local lawyers in Pattaya can be looking for £400 and more. They rarely confirm registering etc etc...

[fletchsmile]

I have only one will held in the UK . It specifies assets in Thailand(800,00Bt for retirement extension) these need to be disclosed to assess inheritance tax in UK. They are part of my estate and I would hope that the bank would accept my will and repatriate my beneficiary's money. The less paperwork the less can be made of it. Two wills seems like a recipe for making things as complicated as possible. If Thai law says that a tourists property becomes Thai property on their death in Thailand so be it.

Best solutions vary depending on circumstances.

We went the route of writing separate wills for UK, Singapore and Thailand.

Your Thai bank won't rely on your UK will. they will rely on your executor going thru the Thai probate system, and only when that process is complete thru the Thai system will they release funds.

One of the problems with trying to use a UK will in Thailand is if someone contests it. Have read a few cases where things can go wrong:

e.g. person tries to use a will written in the UK. Thai person contests it as under Thai law they might be entitled to something and the UK will has been written otherwise. Ended up the UK will would be enforceable if they would fly to Thailand, with the original witnesses, get them to testify, sign in person etc etc. In the end was simply prohibitive on costs so they gave way.

Another advantage of separate wills is that your Thai wife can go thru the Thai system with the Thai will written in Thai and obtain your Thai assets relatively easily and usually without much difficulty. This means she is comfortable accessing the funds. She can then do the UK assets which will be more difficult for her, and may take more time if she's based in Thailand. At least she has the Thai assets to get by on meantime.

Another advantage is that as we have kids, we can specify things differently with different executors more easily.

e.g. my wife is 1st Legatee on my Thai will and kids 2nd Legatee. On my UK will kids are 1st Legatee and wife 2nd Legatee. My brother is specified as controller of the account in the UK until the kids are 18. This means that the UK assets are protected and set aside for the kids as priority and my brother controls it.

I trust my wife, but as Chiang mai says, unforeseen things happen. eg just one scenario: I die things pass to her. She remarries, then she dies (some/all) of the assets may well end up with her second husband or new relatives, by-passing our kids. Or if she becomes incapacitated, or if someone takes advanatge of her financially based on her being unfamiliar with UK etc etc.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited November 25, 2015 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

Just one thought on Thai wills:

Many of us will leave (some of/all of) our assets to our spouse or partner in Thailand hence that person is probably named as the beneficiary in our Thai will.

But if our spouse/partner and our good self die at the same time, say in a road traffic accident, how many of us have actually written into our wills a plan B scenario, it might say something like, " and if person A does not succeed me for more than 30 days beyond my death, my assets should go to person B".

Just a thought, because if your named person does dies when you do, your assets are likely to go to her family ....

very good points.

If the named person is your wife, makes sense to get a will for your wife as well. Otherwise if you have an accident and you die and then she dies say hours later, as Chiang Mai says the Thai relatives may now be in the picture under Thai law as well. All sorts of things can and do happen

[DisparateDan]

I thought I had all this set up fine.

However I have just found out that any will I make will have great difficulty in obtaining probate.

An excellent website gives chapter and verse.

One astonishing requirement is that the death certificates and dates of death of ones parents

must be obtained,translated and notarised by my Embassy.

I was a foundling raised by nuns,(Maybe a reason I am an ardent atheist)., whose convent was hit by a Doodlebug, so what chance for me ? No doubt a lawyer could engage investigators to track my parenthood, and as a consequence absorb all the value of my estate without finding out who they were.

[chiang mai]

I thought I had all this set up fine.

However I have just found out that any will I make will have great difficulty in obtaining probate.

An excellent website gives chapter and verse.

One astonishing requirement is that the death certificates and dates of death of ones parents

must be obtained,translated and notarised by my Embassy.

I was a foundling raised by nuns,(Maybe a reason I am an ardent atheist)., whose convent was hit by a Doodlebug, so what chance for me ? No doubt a lawyer could engage investigators to track my parenthood, and as a consequence absorb all the value of my estate without finding out who they were.

Presumably you are saying that the Thai death certificate must be translated into your native language, can I ask why (if you know) and why is that step needed, what happens if you ignore it (if you know).

[DisparateDan]

I thought I had all this set up fine.

However I have just found out that any will I make will have great difficulty in obtaining probate.

An excellent website gives chapter and verse.

One astonishing requirement is that the death certificates and dates of death of ones parents

must be obtained,translated and notarised by my Embassy.

I was a foundling raised by nuns,(Maybe a reason I am an ardent atheist)., whose convent was hit by a Doodlebug, so what chance for me ? No doubt a lawyer could engage investigators to track my parenthood, and as a consequence absorb all the value of my estate without finding out who they were.

No, the death certificates of my parents would be in English and would need to be translated into Thai, as would all and any documents in English e.g. passport, presented to the courts, all notarised.

I will PM you the link to the excellent website setting out the requirements if you wish.

Since this is only one of many unexpected hurdles, I have not tried to find out what happens if one cannot comply.

I am detouring the whole will business now.

Presumably you are saying that the Thai death certificate must be translated into your native language, can I ask why (if you know) and why is that step needed, what happens if you ignore it (if you know).

[buji]

Good topic, will do mine supplemental next visit to BK. Considering all outside country Wills are void outside their originating countries. Also to anyone who cares, pensions stay in originating countries & getting anything willed outside originating countries such as the USA or England, you need an expensive attorney.

[chiang mai]

A reasonable article on the subject of UK will validity"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/8955385/The-best-will-in-the-world.html

[buji]

And as as note, referring websites are either outdated or non-relevant in the sense to "outside countries", but still referring the U.S., but when you die...you won't care.

[Marcusv]

Farg or not not be led astray. If you have a legal will with a solicitor what is read is done by law.

Get a will

[Jip99]

A reasonable article on the subject of UK will validity"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/8955385/The-best-will-in-the-world.html

Whilst not Thailand specific, it does seem to confirm the strong preference for individual Wills in countries where assets are held.

[evadgib]

Published yesterday:

'In my working life I write Wills, power of attorney and deal with Probate, I have been doing this for over 16 years, and have pretty much seen it all, families bickering over a nasal hair clipper to a multi-million pound estate. One of my favourites was the couple who wrote their own wills, they had two properties.....'

http://www.samuitimes.com/letter-to-the-editor-getting-around-tuit-why-having-a-will-is-so-important/

Edit: I couldn't help noticing the irony re the negative comment at the bottom of the page. What are the odds that the aptly named 'Walt' has a will & doesn't ride a motorbike?

Edited December 15, 2015 by evadgib

[M1keM1ke]

This is a very important topic, so we've decided to pin it. I also removed some misc posts to help clean up the thread. Hope you guys understand.

[ianh68]

Has anyone got any advice on where to securely store your will(s) once they are made? I have Bangkok in mind.

[chiang mai]

Any solicitor or at the Amphur, they will issue a receipt which is the only way it can be retrieved.

[ianh68]

Any solicitor or at the Amphur, they will issue a receipt which is the only way it can be retrieved.

How secure are these? Are you issued with a key like in a bank safety deposit box? Any idea of the cost?

[chiang mai]

Any solicitor or at the Amphur, they will issue a receipt which is the only way it can be retrieved.

How secure are these? Are you issued with a key like in a bank safety deposit box? Any idea of the cost?

They are very secure, used by most Thai people. And no, no key, just a receipt, without it your will can't be retrieved. Cost, 50 baht.

[elgordo38]

We do Last Will and Testiments for 15,000 Baht.

In which case you're about THB 10k over priced, next!

I will to. What a gravy train. Piece of paper pen and 2 witnesses.

[watcharacters]

I was told by my Thai lawyer that they are only qualified to operate with Thai laws. Every country has its own laws.

I made out my will with a Thai lawyer which was witnessed in her office. I paid the fee and everything was above board. Next day she phoned me to inform me she had changed the name of her company,and changed her own personal name. I protested that the will will now be invalid. To which she replied,"what difference does it make"

Now I do not know if the will is valid or not. On checking,she has now moved her office. Beware.

She is correct. If your will was valid when drawn up and correctly witnessed then it doesn't matter what anyone does after. It's still valid. Only you can make it invalid and usually only by making a different and subsequent will.

Or simply revoke the will.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

fyi, some bad news for amphur wills in Bangkok.

About two years ago, my wife and I did some checking with the Klong Toey khet (amphur) office about my doing a Thai amphur will there. The wills officer we spoke with at the time was accommodating, and the requirements weren't onerous. But we got busy with other things and didn't pursue the will to conclusion at that time.

Now two years later, I'm trying to get back to that issue, so had my wife call the Klong Toey khet office today to revisit the subject, before we planned on heading down there to do an amphur will. Well, the staff at the KT khet office has changed since our prior visit, and the current staff are now saying several new requirements different than the prior staff there, including:

1. they said they'll only do an amphur will if I can provide them my entry in a tabien bahn (something I don't currently have).

2. they said they'll require a 3rd party translator to be there for the appointment (even though my wife is fluent in English).

3. and they said they would require two outside witnesses, contrary to before where the office staff at the khet were willing to do the witnessing.

So, we figured, maybe they'd just gone off the deep end at KT khet, so my wife called two other khets in BKK (Phra Kanong and Bangrak) and spoke to the wills officers at those two locations. And to our dismay, both of them -- according to my wife -- gave the exact same answer about the requirements for providing a tabien bahn bearing my name, bringing a 3rd party translator and bringing two outside witnesses.

And, according to my wife, it didn't matter in the case of all three khet offices whether the will we wanted to execute was either the public or the private version of a Thai amphur will. They were going to enforce the tabien bahn, outside translator and outside witnesses requirements in both cases, regardless.

Ahh... and after we got the first answer about them requiring me to be entered in a tabien bahn, I had my wife ask the other two offices whether they would accept a Residency Certificate document from Thai Immigration instead/as a substitute. And both answered they would not... only a tabien bahn would suffice.

If anyone has had a different/better experience in doing an amphur will lately at any of the khet offices in Bangkok, please do post here with the details. Like marriage certificates, you don't actually need to be living in the khet jurisdiction where to want to execute a Thai will. You can, at least in theory, do it at any amphur/khet office.

Edited March 4, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[chiang mai]

It appears as though there is a strengthening of the process which is good, the external translators being a small part of that. More disturbing however is the Tabien Bahn issue, that's been cropping up repeatedly in the banking threads, it strikes me as being more of, "the Thai system is for Thai's only", I hope I am wrong.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I thought, from the prior posts on this subject, that some posters in other places were getting away with providing Thai Immigration residency certificates.. Maybe my mind is getting old and addled here, but I don't recall seeing tabien bahns crop up as a requirement in the prior postings here on amphur wills.

I'm a renter, and had never really wanted to trouble the family we rent our home from with going thru the process/hassle of getting me added onto their tabien bahn. And I never had any pressing reason to pursue the issue before. But now...

My wife, who used to work at an amphur office in her hometown, told me today, after checking with her former colleagues, that she could, now that we're already married, have her hometown amphur issue me a yellow book type of tabien bahn based on her hometown residence, even though we don't actually live there, but rather in BKK. So I guess, at some point, we'll go thru that process at her hometown amphur and then revisit the amphur wills issue here in BKK with me hopefully holding a yellow book at that point.

[Henry89]

There are a lot of peculiarities you have to allow for bequeathing a property (from experience). A worth reading article about real estate inheritance in Europe https://tranio.com/traniopedia/tips/real_estate_inheritance_in_europe/ (might be helpful for somebody)

[phuket12345]

Thanks for get the knowledge for me, it's very useful