Hand To Mouth.........

[klubex99]

Well me too......I fly Business Class 8 times a year......I spend more on holidays than most people earn in Thailand, including farangs, and yet on this thread someone says I can't afford to live in Thailand.

Unbelievable.

I could put myself in that class a while ago, and I am very comfortable and well able to live in Thailand with style, but to be honest. I think anyone who posts it as a way of showing off, is usually full of crap. IMHO.

Almost everyone I know who is able to afford that lifestyle, would not even consider posting it on here, and I know a lot of affluent folks here. They would consider it the same, either gross or BS.

[JDGRUEN]

@JDGRUEN. There lies the answer, ensure that you can depend upon yourself and not be dragged down by funding other people that you cannot afford.

The earlier story about the Doctor with the aggressive Thai wife that laid claim to his ATM card, well, if true, what a tragedy. Spending your life helping other people to be reduced to penury by a black hearted female. I get the impression that the guy felt entrapped, and the worst of it is it was a trap easily escaped from, however when people are of an age and vulnerable then they can't see a way out.

I think we will see an inevitable rise in vulnerable farangs being taken advantage of in Thailand, but to be fair, I don't think that's exclusive to Thailand, vulnerable elderly people are victimized every day in the West, usually by the people closest to them, and that just confounds the tragedy.

Well Blether ... I have a good plan - hopefully I can stick to it. Learning from others I think is the best way to prepare for a retirement in Thailand. So for two years I have made an intense study in preparation. Along with relearning the Thai Language, I have lurked around on TV for nearly a year reading without responding to hundreds of forum threads and it has opened my eyes a great deal. I have learned much of value from Visas to women - to home life and everything in between (Thank you TV members). But to use the generous advice posted one has to learn to filter out the over abundance of negativity, sarcasm and even hostility that one has to trip over here on TV. I plan to live a modest life style, associate with women who are not in need or at least not demanding my money (laugh if you must folks) and practice as much discipline as I can. I have walked away from alcohol. While I don't plan on being a teetotaler - scumming to alcohol and ruining my life is not in the cards for me. For about ten years now I have been re-alining my lifestyle to be one of 'everything in moderation'. Hopefully, I will be successful with it in Thailand too. Reading about the plight of down and out - hand to mouth Farangs in Thailand helps sharpen one's focus on what to avoid. Please note - I am not a 'Goody Two Shoes' - rather just an older guy trying to make a change in my life without stepping on land mines.

Edited February 18, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[diddums]

Well me too......I fly Business Class 8 times a year......I spend more on holidays than most people earn in Thailand, including farangs, and yet on this thread someone says I can't afford to live in Thailand.

Unbelievable.

I could put myself in that class a while ago, and I am very comfortable and well able to live in Thailand with style, but to be honest. I think anyone who posts it as a way of showing off, is usually full of crap. IMHO.

Almost everyone I know who is able to afford that lifestyle, would not even consider posting it on here, and I know a lot of affluent folks here. They would consider it the same, either gross or BS.

Give him some space....I think he is missing a few people in his life as recent posts have revealed.

[TommoPhysicist]

How do they stay without the bank balance, income, or combination? Do they lie to the embassy, or are the staying illegally or...?

I have seen examples of extraordinary overstays however so far these tend to be in the alcoholic / dependent category, rather than this new category that I noticed. The worst example of overstay that I have encountered was 4 years, that guy was a chronic alcoholic and was eventually jailed twice before being deported.

Some stay without VISAs.

Some do a border run every two weeks.

Depends how broke they are.

As Blether says, loads and loads in CM.

Not all old guys either.

Edited February 18, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[theblether]

Well me too......I fly Business Class 8 times a year......I spend more on holidays than most people earn in Thailand, including farangs, and yet on this thread someone says I can't afford to live in Thailand.

Unbelievable.

I could put myself in that class a while ago, and I am very comfortable and well able to live in Thailand with style, but to be honest. I think anyone who posts it as a way of showing off, is usually full of crap. IMHO.

Almost everyone I know who is able to afford that lifestyle, would not even consider posting it on here, and I know a lot of affluent folks here. They would consider it the same, either gross or BS.

Give him some space....I think he is missing a few people in his life as recent posts have revealed.

Eh??

Anyway, don't be feeding the trolls, he's just been boasting about £250K houses and Million pound businesses on another thread.

"A friend of mine" indeed.

ps. I get it now, yup......I'm missing a few people.

Edited February 18, 2013 by theblether

[TommoPhysicist]

Ehm.......where do I start? I only mentioned the fact I travel Business Class 8 times a year to rebutt a flame that I can't afford to stay in Thailand.

So how about we drop that nonsense?, the day I can't afford a £500 flight and the required income to live in Thailand I'll take the solution suggested by MrWorldWide.

The topic is about people living hand to mouth...........JT has predicted a boom in the numbers of breadline Retirees from the States. Here's my prediction, the Thais will get sick of the problems caused by dealing with people of this ilk and they will raise the bar even higher as far as retirement visas and the like are concerned.

For those that think that the "Grandfather" clause will be their salvation, you may well be right, but I predict a surge in arbitrary visa extension refusals. One member ( apologies for not tracking back to get the name ) on this thread has already said that the Visa officer questioned his right to stay because he didn't like the look of him.

If? When? that comes to pass there will be a fair few irritated guys on here complaining bitterly about being unfairly targetted due to the insidious effect of the Hand To Mouth Brigade.

ps. Obviously if I ever get refused a visa I'll just nip down to the airport and book a flight out. Business Class of course.

Having a high income is different to being able to afford to live in Thailand.

To be able to afford to live in Thailand, you need savings, pensions, investments.

Once you move here the high income is often a thing of the past.

[theblether]

Ehm.......where do I start? I only mentioned the fact I travel Business Class 8 times a year to rebutt a flame that I can't afford to stay in Thailand.

So how about we drop that nonsense?, the day I can't afford a £500 flight and the required income to live in Thailand I'll take the solution suggested by MrWorldWide.

The topic is about people living hand to mouth...........JT has predicted a boom in the numbers of breadline Retirees from the States. Here's my prediction, the Thais will get sick of the problems caused by dealing with people of this ilk and they will raise the bar even higher as far as retirement visas and the like are concerned.

For those that think that the "Grandfather" clause will be their salvation, you may well be right, but I predict a surge in arbitrary visa extension refusals. One member ( apologies for not tracking back to get the name ) on this thread has already said that the Visa officer questioned his right to stay because he didn't like the look of him.

If? When? that comes to pass there will be a fair few irritated guys on here complaining bitterly about being unfairly targetted due to the insidious effect of the Hand To Mouth Brigade.

ps. Obviously if I ever get refused a visa I'll just nip down to the airport and book a flight out. Business Class of course.

Having a high income is different to being able to afford to live in Thailand.

To be able to afford to live in Thailand, you need savings, pensions, investments.

Once you move here the high income is often a thing of the past.

Yup I agree with that, some people find it hard to adjust their spending downwards. They think they're on an extended holiday and spend accordingly, while living on a reduced income then!! The Day of Reckoning Cometh!!

[klubex99]

Well me too......I fly Business Class 8 times a year......I spend more on holidays than most people earn in Thailand, including farangs, and yet on this thread someone says I can't afford to live in Thailand.

Unbelievable.

I could put myself in that class a while ago, and I am very comfortable and well able to live in Thailand with style, but to be honest. I think anyone who posts it as a way of showing off, is usually full of crap. IMHO.

Almost everyone I know who is able to afford that lifestyle, would not even consider posting it on here, and I know a lot of affluent folks here. They would consider it the same, either gross or BS.

Give him some space....I think he is missing a few people in his life as recent posts have revealed.

Eh??

Anyway, don't be feeding the trolls, he's just been boasting about £250K houses and Million pound businesses on another thread.

"A friend of mine" indeed.

Yes, I didn't name names or make out it was me. Just explained that my friend was business astute, and had the bank account to prove it. Neither me nor him would brag about his affluent lifestyle or his decadent swish capabilities with all his 'disposable', especially on a thread about people who are struggling to exist in LOS.

His lifestyle is actually quite humble and modest considering, and even if it was as 'extravagant' as yours, he wouldn't see what use it was telling everyone in detail. Apart from trying to make yourself look better.

8 business class flights a year indeed.

[theblether]

You are young, you will learn.

ps It must have really annoyed you, you keep going about it.

[rene123]

Well Blether ... I have a good plan - hopefully I can stick to it. Learning from others I think is the best way to prepare for a retirement in Thailand. So for two years I have made an intense study in preparation. Along with relearning the Thai Language, I have lurked around on TV for nearly a year reading without responding to hundreds of forum threads and it has opened my eyes a great deal. I have learned much of value from Visas to women - to home life and everything in between (Thank you TV members). But to use the generous advice posted one has to learn to filter out the over abundance of negativity, sarcasm and even hostility that one has to trip over here on TV. I plan to live a modest life style, associate with women who are not in need or at least not demanding my money (laugh if you must folks) and practice as much discipline as I can. I have walked away from alcohol. While I don't plan on being a teetotaler - scumming to alcohol and ruining my life is not in the cards for me. For about ten years now I have been re-alining my lifestyle to be one of 'everything in moderation'. Hopefully, I will be successful with it in Thailand too. Reading about the plight of down and out - hand to mouth Farangs in Thailand helps sharpen one's focus on what to avoid. Please note - I am not a 'Goody Two Shoes' - rather just an older guy trying to make a change in my life without stepping on land mines.

If you stick with your plan then it will work for you. Just don't cut all bridges behind you. I have an elderly Canadian friend who has been a mentor to me and he's taught me a lot about simple living and enjoying it. He tells me he gives more away than he spends on himself.

[NeverSure]

The amount of old people who seem to exist here without love and family is staggering. Suicide bag indeed....

And I believe that trend will only intensify in coming decades. I suggested the exit bag purely as an alternative to the prospect of ending up totally destitute on the streets : I don't subscribe to the notion that 'where there is life, there's hope' - not at the age of most expats in Thailand and other parts of Asia. For many years, the very idea of taking one's own life was contrary to everything I had been indoctrinated with from my baptism onward - I believe that began to change after 4 years in the Army. We aren;t talking about angst-ridden teenagers here - how much longer would most of these folks live even if they did get back to Farangland in one piece ? And at what cost to the community they turned their back on 20-30 years earlier ?

Sooner or later, everyone here will face their own mortality - I'd prefer to go out on my own terms, but that's just me.

I have to throw the BS flag on this one, sorry. I paid into the system for 50 fkn years. Big time. Every year I paid into social security and medicare, right out of my paycheck or my self-employment taxes. It ran about 14% of my gross every year. 50 years, 14% up to about the first $US100k per year, or about $14,000 a year.

Now I don't want to hear about what I might "cost the system." They already stole it from me.

If I am on my arse in another country, I'm catching the first flight back to the US where I immediately have "free" medicare and other benefits like food stamps. I might choose to land in the deep South such as rural Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia or Florida where the weather is near tropical and the cost of living is cheaper than LOS. I said rural. There is some really rural country there where people are poor and rent is cheap.

If I'm really bad off, Medicaid will take over and provide me with a visiting caregiver.

I don't understand the "give up" mentality, unless I know I have a terminal disease with a lot of pain and no life ahead. Then at least in the US I could fkn shoot myself. (Another death statistic not separated from all other deaths in statistics, but common.)

[JDGRUEN]

Well Blether ... I have a good plan - hopefully I can stick to it. Learning from others I think is the best way to prepare for a retirement in Thailand. So for two years I have made an intense study in preparation. Along with relearning the Thai Language, I have lurked around on TV for nearly a year reading without responding to hundreds of forum threads and it has opened my eyes a great deal. I have learned much of value from Visas to women - to home life and everything in between (Thank you TV members). But to use the generous advice posted one has to learn to filter out the over abundance of negativity, sarcasm and even hostility that one has to trip over here on TV. I plan to live a modest life style, associate with women who are not in need or at least not demanding my money (laugh if you must folks) and practice as much discipline as I can. I have walked away from alcohol. While I don't plan on being a teetotaler - scumming to alcohol and ruining my life is not in the cards for me. For about ten years now I have been re-alining my lifestyle to be one of 'everything in moderation'. Hopefully, I will be successful with it in Thailand too. Reading about the plight of down and out - hand to mouth Farangs in Thailand helps sharpen one's focus on what to avoid. Please note - I am not a 'Goody Two Shoes' - rather just an older guy trying to make a change in my life without stepping on land mines.

If you stick with your plan then it will work for you. Just don't cut all bridges behind you. I have an elderly Canadian friend who has been a mentor to me and he's taught me a lot about simple living and enjoying it. He tells me he gives more away than he spends on himself.

Rene - funny you should say that... I don't have too many bridges to burn... nothing strange - just an odd quirk in life ... I am the youngest in the family. I will likely survive my brother and sisters as they are getting on in years and/or have bad health. But I do have a number of friends - and more importantly I have spent ten years cultivating relationships with quite a few Second Cousins (we share the same Great Grand Parents) who are younger than me or about the same age. I have become quite close with two of them. You are lucky and smart Rene to have such a mentor - and actually listen and take the advice.

[klubex99]

You are young, you will learn.

ps It must have really annoyed you, you keep going about it.

Its all relative really. I am almost 48, so yes maybe I am to be considered young compared to some here. But I don't think I have too much left to learn, although we never really stop learning.

Not annoyed really.. Just chipping in my tuppence worth.

But anyway, I have little desire to become an adversary of yours, so lets get this thread back on track, and I apologise to anyone if I dragged it down.

So where were we?

Oh right... Expats scrimping by in LOS.

I have to say that when I first got here, I was throwing money around like a man with no arms. Admittedly I had spent a few years working my ass off in the UK with not a lot of time to enjoy myself, and so I was in full holiday mode. But my Thai GF soon pulled me down to earth.

If I remember correctly, If I went a bit 'over the top' I would kid myself by comparing the bill to what I would have paid for the same in the UK. It seemed to cushion the blow and made it all feel justified. But obviously, maintaining that lifestyle would have been foolish and counter-productive considering I was here to improve my life, not drink myself half to death.

I have to say that it is not the same as BKK, Phuket or Pattaya here. It would be very hard to spend half a million in 3 months in Korat without dying as a direct result. Even though there is a farang drinking scene here, it is very cheap, and I have grown out of my heavy drinking days.

I don't think any expats will live over their means when the funds are dwindling, even an out and out alcoholic is clever enough to downgrade his surroundings in return for a longer return on investment. I really don't think it can be comparable with those expats here on almost in-exhaustible funds.

I have really only known of one farang who truly hit the skids here, and I really don't think I can put the blame on him for it. He ran a local bar/restaurant with his Thai wife. He was doing well, so well in fact... that he moved to a larger premises. He made sure that all his customers knew where he was moving to (less than half a KM). Strange thing was, nobody really followed him there. I would ask the other expats why I never saw them going in there much, they didn't seem to know why. They just for some reason thought the spark was not in this place that was in the other.

Anyhow, they struggled to pay the bills etc etc.... and in true Thai style, his wife dumped him and left him 'holding the baby'.

He lost his house to the wife and blah blah.... you heard it all before.

But this guy, never went home to Germany... I would see him sitting outside a mom and pop shop drinking a 42 baht Chang, and moaning about his situation. I did what I could to help him out, as did a few of the other locals, and he stayed here and there, crashing in spare rooms, and I believe he was getting some assistance from his parents who would have helped him out a lot more by buying a plane ticket for him.

Last I heard, he is hanging out in BKK. I really hope he is well. A lot of us got a bit concerned about him because he really did spiral downhill. Hard to watch. But I doubt he would go home, even though I tried to drum it into him, to go back to Germany and regroup. Get some work for 6 months and come back and try again. But alas, he would rather be here broke it seems, than face 6 months back home... funny that.

I think there are a lot of folks flying by the seat of their pants hoping things will get better before they get worse... reminds me of when I was first here, and kidding myself. Sometimes people will choose the path of least resistance, no matter what the outcome.

Edited February 18, 2013 by klubex99

[MrWorldwide]

The amount of old people who seem to exist here without love and family is staggering. Suicide bag indeed....

And I believe that trend will only intensify in coming decades. I suggested the exit bag purely as an alternative to the prospect of ending up totally destitute on the streets : I don't subscribe to the notion that 'where there is life, there's hope' - not at the age of most expats in Thailand and other parts of Asia. For many years, the very idea of taking one's own life was contrary to everything I had been indoctrinated with from my baptism onward - I believe that began to change after 4 years in the Army. We aren;t talking about angst-ridden teenagers here - how much longer would most of these folks live even if they did get back to Farangland in one piece ? And at what cost to the community they turned their back on 20-30 years earlier ?

Sooner or later, everyone here will face their own mortality - I'd prefer to go out on my own terms, but that's just me.

I have to throw the BS flag on this one, sorry. I paid into the system for 50 fkn years. Big time. Every year I paid into social security and medicare, right out of my paycheck or my self-employment taxes. It ran about 14% of my gross every year. 50 years, 14% up to about the first $US100k per year, or about $14,000 a year.

Now I don't want to hear about what I might "cost the system." They already stole it from me.

If I am on my arse in another country, I'm catching the first flight back to the US where I immediately have "free" medicare and other benefits like food stamps. I might choose to land in the deep South such as rural Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia or Florida where the weather is near tropical and the cost of living is cheaper than LOS. I said rural. There is some really rural country there where people are poor and rent is cheap.

If I'm really bad off, Medicaid will take over and provide me with a visiting caregiver.

I don't understand the "give up" mentality, unless I know I have a terminal disease with a lot of pain and no life ahead. Then at least in the US I could fkn shoot myself. (Another death statistic not separated from all other deaths in statistics, but common.)

Disclaimer: the US and Australian 'social security' systems are very different - pls read all of my reply before responding.

Entirely your prerogative to return to the US, but American taxpayers don't owe you a dime that you haven't specifically paid into a govt-administered fund. I felt the same way as you for most of my adult life, particularly in the 90s when our tax system was taking 46 cents in every dollar over a certain income level. We also pay a Medicare levy and a levy surcharge - I dont know how it compares to yours, but it's there - although we dont have the same Social Security setup. A 19-year old who has paid no taxes gets the same amount as a single 50 year old who has paid taxes all his life - go figure.

Forget the fact that the taxpayer subsidised my return to University in the early 90s, or the 4 years I spent in the Army (taxpayer funds the Defence budget) before that - I was increasingly pissed off with the way governments (state and federal) wasted my tax dollars. I was pissed off with seeing stories on single mothers who collected more 'dole' money for each successive kid they raised, and other stories on scumbags who were collecting several welfare payments under assumed names, and I was pissed off with the nanny state slapping criminals on the hand while sending me $300 speeding fines,. It was, quite clearly, a conspiracy.

Trips to different parts of Asia have steadily eroded that view of Oz. I can now see that the generations before me had to sacrifice a hell of a lot of blood, sweat and tears so that I could be born in a country with basic education, healthcare and physical infrastructure that I took for granted. A country where decades of anti-corruption trials have finally convinced the majority of politicians and cops (not all, sadly) that the public purse wasn't theirs for the taking, and a country where the Police (again, with some sad exceptions) actually uphold the law, regardless of your surname, bank balance or connections. As generous as our social welfare system might be, it only came into existence after a Depression that saw women and children forced into the street.

I worked with a Brit IT contractor years ago who gloated that he paid 'zero tax in this country'. It seemed that he preferred to pay an accountant than pay to maintain the footpaths he walked on, or the street lamps above him on his way home at night, or any one of a thousand other things we all take for granted until you find yourself staggering out of Sharkey's in Pnomh Penh wondering why the hell its so dark. He was probably chuffed that he wasn't paying for a single mother in Woodridge to buy cigarettes and a carton of beer, but then he wasn't accosted by 20 or so child beggars every time he went to Plaza Indonesia in Jakarta. He didn't have to watch a 2-year old girl sitting alone in the rain outside said plaza with a sign asking for money as the sun set. IMO, my Brit friend just didn't get it - the country which had so generously given him a working visa doesn't run on fairy dust.

Of course, none of that speaks to your own situation, and your Social Security system seems to be quite different to ours - if you put the money in specifically for 'hard times', I agree that you should have access to it. We just differ on the extent to which that would make a difference to the end result, but I've never lived in the US so perhaps my view of old age is distorted by the shuffling, 'invisible' folk I see in the Lotto queue each week.

As for shooting yourself - your prerogative, but some poor bastard has to clean that up afterwards. I guess the wags here would ask whether that is any better than someone having to cart my bloated corpse out of a hotel room or whatever, but they had to do it for Hendrix, Joplin, Whitney Houston and Bon Scott - a mixed bag (no pun intended..), but still a better end IMO than being wheeled out of a retirement home where you spent the last 10 years staring at the walls and dribbling into your shirt. Short of throwing myself onto a funeral pyre at the local temple (or off the cliffs at Uluwatu - hmm ..), I cant think of any way to avoid the fact that someone will be traumatised by my departure.

II's all pretty grisly, and hopefully a long way away for most of us, but the this thread is about Farang who seem, at least on the surface, to have reached the end of the line without being willing to pack it in. I dont expect my personal view to be shared by anyone here - that's fine - but it's not something I just dreamt up on the spur of the moment.

[notmyself]

Met a couple of survival types living in the bush on Samui over the years. Fishing at dawn with a snorkel and a 2' long sharpened pieve of re-bar powered by a length of elastic bands bound together like a bunjy cord. Would swap some or all (if needed) of their catch for water, rice, lighter, salt or something equally useful. Free fruit and veg up in the hills (under the canopy during the heat of the day) if you know what you are looking for. Tarp with a good long length of that cheap green rope kept them dry in their A-frame during the night. Not quite the same thing as you could see that these guys didn't just fall into living like that but chose to do it.

[NeverSure]

The amount of old people who seem to exist here without love and family is staggering. Suicide bag indeed....

And I believe that trend will only intensify in coming decades. I suggested the exit bag purely as an alternative to the prospect of ending up totally destitute on the streets : I don't subscribe to the notion that 'where there is life, there's hope' - not at the age of most expats in Thailand and other parts of Asia. For many years, the very idea of taking one's own life was contrary to everything I had been indoctrinated with from my baptism onward - I believe that began to change after 4 years in the Army. We aren;t talking about angst-ridden teenagers here - how much longer would most of these folks live even if they did get back to Farangland in one piece ? And at what cost to the community they turned their back on 20-30 years earlier ?

Sooner or later, everyone here will face their own mortality - I'd prefer to go out on my own terms, but that's just me.

I have to throw the BS flag on this one, sorry. I paid into the system for 50 fkn years. Big time. Every year I paid into social security and medicare, right out of my paycheck or my self-employment taxes. It ran about 14% of my gross every year. 50 years, 14% up to about the first $US100k per year, or about $14,000 a year.

Now I don't want to hear about what I might "cost the system." They already stole it from me.

If I am on my arse in another country, I'm catching the first flight back to the US where I immediately have "free" medicare and other benefits like food stamps. I might choose to land in the deep South such as rural Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia or Florida where the weather is near tropical and the cost of living is cheaper than LOS. I said rural. There is some really rural country there where people are poor and rent is cheap.

If I'm really bad off, Medicaid will take over and provide me with a visiting caregiver.

I don't understand the "give up" mentality, unless I know I have a terminal disease with a lot of pain and no life ahead. Then at least in the US I could fkn shoot myself. (Another death statistic not separated from all other deaths in statistics, but common.)

Disclaimer: the US and Australian 'social security' systems are very different - pls read all of my reply before responding.

Entirely your prerogative to return to the US, but American taxpayers don't owe you a dime that you haven't specifically paid into a govt-administered fund. I felt the same way as you for most of my adult life, particularly in the 90s when our tax system was taking 46 cents in every dollar over a certain income level. We also pay a Medicare levy and a levy surcharge - I dont know how it compares to yours, but it's there - although we dont have the same Social Security setup. A 19-year old who has paid no taxes gets the same amount as a single 50 year old who has paid taxes all his life - go figure.

Forget the fact that the taxpayer subsidised my return to University in the early 90s, or the 4 years I spent in the Army (taxpayer funds the Defence budget) before that - I was increasingly pissed off with the way governments (state and federal) wasted my tax dollars. I was pissed off with seeing stories on single mothers who collected more 'dole' money for each successive kid they raised, and other stories on scumbags who were collecting several welfare payments under assumed names, and I was pissed off with the nanny state slapping criminals on the hand while sending me $300 speeding fines,. It was, quite clearly, a conspiracy.

Trips to different parts of Asia have steadily eroded that view of Oz. I can now see that the generations before me had to sacrifice a hell of a lot of blood, sweat and tears so that I could be born in a country with basic education, healthcare and physical infrastructure that I took for granted. A country where decades of anti-corruption trials have finally convinced the majority of politicians and cops (not all, sadly) that the public purse wasn't theirs for the taking, and a country where the Police (again, with some sad exceptions) actually uphold the law, regardless of your surname, bank balance or connections. As generous as our social welfare system might be, it only came into existence after a Depression that saw women and children forced into the street.

I worked with a Brit IT contractor years ago who gloated that he paid 'zero tax in this country'. It seemed that he preferred to pay an accountant than pay to maintain the footpaths he walked on, or the street lamps above him on his way home at night, or any one of a thousand other things we all take for granted until you find yourself staggering out of Sharkey's in Pnomh Penh wondering why the hell its so dark. He was probably chuffed that he wasn't paying for a single mother in Woodridge to buy cigarettes and a carton of beer, but then he wasn't accosted by 20 or so child beggars every time he went to Plaza Indonesia in Jakarta. He didn't have to watch a 2-year old girl sitting alone in the rain outside said plaza with a sign asking for money as the sun set. IMO, my Brit friend just didn't get it - the country which had so generously given him a working visa doesn't run on fairy dust.

Of course, none of that speaks to your own situation, and your Social Security system seems to be quite different to ours - if you put the money in specifically for 'hard times', I agree that you should have access to it. We just differ on the extent to which that would make a difference to the end result, but I've never lived in the US so perhaps my view of old age is distorted by the shuffling, 'invisible' folk I see in the Lotto queue each week.

As for shooting yourself - your prerogative, but some poor bastard has to clean that up afterwards. I guess the wags here would ask whether that is any better than someone having to cart my bloated corpse out of a hotel room or whatever, but they had to do it for Hendrix, Joplin, Whitney Houston and Bon Scott - a mixed bag (no pun intended..), but still a better end IMO than being wheeled out of a retirement home where you spent the last 10 years staring at the walls and dribbling into your shirt. Short of throwing myself onto a funeral pyre at the local temple (or off the cliffs at Uluwatu - hmm ..), I cant think of any way to avoid the fact that someone will be traumatised by my departure.

II's all pretty grisly, and hopefully a long way away for most of us, but the this thread is about Farang who seem, at least on the surface, to have reached the end of the line without being willing to pack it in. I dont expect my personal view to be shared by anyone here - that's fine - but it's not something I just dreamt up on the spur of the moment.

Good post. It sounds like you have the same gripes I do, and that your tax rates are very similar.

Yes, I paid into funds that are in my name for my old age. Yes, the government put it into the general budget and blew it. Still, I paid it, it has my name on it, and they owe it to me. All of those years there was a promise.

Yes, we have welfare moms. That wasn't possible before the late 1960's when the President Johnson ushered in his "Great Society" and that was the beginning of the end of balanced, or near balance budgets. That cause President Nixon to take us off the gold standard in the early 1970's so they could print fiat money to pay the bills. It's all been downhill since then, including the value of the dollar.

Think of it. When the Great Society started, and even when Nixon took us off the gold standard, gold was and had been for decades $US35 dollars an ounce. Then they started printing money. Today gold is $1,600+ of the new fiat money. This is about the value of the dollar, not gold. The bastards are ruining us.

As for your $300 speeding ticket vs a criminal. Of course they will fine you because they can collect. You have something to lose. But the criminal not only has nothing to lose, but if they lock him up he becomes a great expense. You're easy to get $300 out of. You're a sitting duck.

As for shooting myself no, I wouldn't leave a mess for someone to clean up. Many do and I suspect it might be out of spite. There is no reason to intentionally die by any means including drug overdose in a building or car etc. It's too easy to walk into a wooded area and let animals clean it up.

However as I said, I wouldn't kill myself unless I was facing a certain and painful death from some incurable disease. I am too much of an optimist to not see something bright in my day. Being broke certainly isn't a reason.

Edited February 18, 2013 by NeverSure

[rattler]

Business Class...?

Ugh...

I like to peel back the curtain and shudder at the lower orders.

Im appalled, I only use my private jet I coudlnt stand to travel with "other people" what germs one might catch off those vagrants ( brings it back on topic)

[Chittychangchang]

If you are truly on the bones of yor arse here then i reccomend a community of ex backpacker/hippie types who colonise an island near Koh phanyan . They are self sufficient and live of the land.

They live in self built bamboo homes with a wonderful farm and great fishing. Also there is loads of wacky Baccy to smoke as it has it's own plantation. They don't worry about visa's and tommorrow just the now.

if you happen to find this paradise you will find the only requirement is to play cricket at mid day on THE BEACH.

[MAJIC]

If these men who are observed are in the age of 55 years or above and from the USA... I know why they would be in such a situation. With the economy as it is in the U.S. and with a real jobless rate pushing 20% (not the 8% propaganda the government hands out) then one 'goes to where the weather suits my clothes" as sang in Margaritaville. In the U.S. we have employment Age Discrimination laws that are practically never enforced by anyone. Since 2008 millions of men and women over age 55 have lost their jobs. And as a sobering practical matter these people will never get a professional job again. It would seem that homelessness will increase in places like Thailand - at least there people won't freeze at night sleeping under a tree.

Yep! entirely agree,on the scapheap,not because you can't do the job any more,but because you have become the person who is not young anymore,and the disgusting grey hair,and wrinkles are showing,and the young upcoming bucks would like to put you out to grass,out of sight,out of mind,out of having to compete,and not having to face the real hard facts and reality,that one day they will also be in your position..............expendable slave,who has been used!

Edited February 18, 2013 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

Met a couple of survival types living in the bush on Samui over the years. Fishing at dawn with a snorkel and a 2' long sharpened pieve of re-bar powered by a length of elastic bands bound together like a bunjy cord. Would swap some or all (if needed) of their catch for water, rice, lighter, salt or something equally useful. Free fruit and veg up in the hills (under the canopy during the heat of the day) if you know what you are looking for. Tarp with a good long length of that cheap green rope kept them dry in their A-frame during the night. Not quite the same thing as you could see that these guys didn't just fall into living like that but chose to do it.

Perhaps they smoked too much weed,and took :"The Beach" too much to heart,or were they just plain lazy Bu**e**?

[MrWorldwide]

Rejoice, brothers and sisters - if you need to know how to cut your expenses to zero, check this out:

http://au.pfinance.y...0-in-six-months

A mum of six in the US has managed to erase $85,000 worth of debt in just six months.

In an extraordinary display of dedication and incredible penny-pinching, Angela Coffman of Kansas city got rid of the crippling debt in a record time.

Employing measures that some might call extreme when it comes to avoiding spending, Angela now makes leather shoes out of old skirts and reusable toilet paper out of old T-shirts.

All I can say is the blindingly obvious - what happens when you run out of leather skirts and t-shirts ? The rest of it makes sense - growing your own produce - but none of it is 'easy' for anyone trying to hold down a 10+-hour a day job, particularly in Winter - happy to hear otherwise.

(Kansas Winter without heat - thanks but no thanks ...)

Edited February 19, 2013 by MrWorldwide

[notmyself]

Met a couple of survival types living in the bush on Samui over the years. Fishing at dawn with a snorkel and a 2' long sharpened pieve of re-bar powered by a length of elastic bands bound together like a bunjy cord. Would swap some or all (if needed) of their catch for water, rice, lighter, salt or something equally useful. Free fruit and veg up in the hills (under the canopy during the heat of the day) if you know what you are looking for. Tarp with a good long length of that cheap green rope kept them dry in their A-frame during the night. Not quite the same thing as you could see that these guys didn't just fall into living like that but chose to do it.

Perhaps they smoked too much weed,and took :"The Beach" too much to heart,or were they just plain lazy Bu**e**?

Perhaps. I was living a somewhat similar life though I had a hut on the beach and bought my own rice, water and if I didn't catch anything before midday I would have to buy something late afternoon. These guys would go out fishing later afternoon if needs be so not lazy at all. See if you can live of the land like some do...

15cm of dry bamboo and I (and them) cound start a fire, can you?

Edited February 19, 2013 by notmyself

[Jimbo]

I have really only known of one farang who truly hit the skids here, and I really don't think I can put the blame on him for it. He ran a local bar/restaurant with his Thai wife. He was doing well, so well in fact... that he moved to a larger premises. He made sure that all his customers knew where he was moving to (less than half a KM). Strange thing was, nobody really followed him there. I would ask the other expats why I never saw them going in there much, they didn't seem to know why. They just for some reason thought the spark was not in this place that was in the other.

Anyhow, they struggled to pay the bills etc etc.... and in true Thai style, his wife dumped him and left him 'holding the baby'.

He lost his house to the wife and blah blah.... you heard it all before.

But this guy, never went home to Germany... I would see him sitting outside a mom and pop shop drinking a 42 baht Chang, and moaning about his situation. I did what I could to help him out, as did a few of the other locals, and he stayed here and there, crashing in spare rooms, and I believe he was getting some assistance from his parents who would have helped him out a lot more by buying a plane ticket for him.

Last I heard, he is hanging out in BKK. I really hope he is well. A lot of us got a bit concerned about him because he really did spiral downhill. Hard to watch. But I doubt he would go home, even though I tried to drum it into him, to go back to Germany and regroup. Get some work for 6 months and come back and try again. But alas, he would rather be here broke it seems, than face 6 months back home... funny that.

I think there are a lot of folks flying by the seat of their pants hoping things will get better before they get worse... reminds me of when I was first here, and kidding myself. Sometimes people will choose the path of least resistance, no matter what the outcome.

I know who you are talking about but a lot of the facts of this story have been twisted. Perhaps you received the wrong information from the person in question but him loosing that restaurant had nothing to do with a lack of customers. He ran that place with his GF, not wife. And the house he lost as he wasn't making the mortgage payments as he was pissing it all away.

[weegee]

Met a couple of survival types living in the bush on Samui over the years. Fishing at dawn with a snorkel and a 2' long sharpened pieve of re-bar powered by a length of elastic bands bound together like a bunjy cord. Would swap some or all (if needed) of their catch for water, rice, lighter, salt or something equally useful. Free fruit and veg up in the hills (under the canopy during the heat of the day) if you know what you are looking for. Tarp with a good long length of that cheap green rope kept them dry in their A-frame during the night. Not quite the same thing as you could see that these guys didn't just fall into living like that but chose to do it.

Perhaps they smoked too much weed,and took :"The Beach" too much to heart,or were they just plain lazy Bu**e**?

Perhaps. I was living a somewhat similar life though I had a hut on the beach and bought my own rice, water and if I didn't catch anything before midday I would have to buy something late afternoon. These guys would go out fishing later afternoon if needs be so not lazy at all. See if you can live of the land like some do...

15cm of dry bamboo and I (and them) cound start a fire, can you?

Yep...here are TWO better ways.

(1) In this modern age....a magnifing Glass, or a beer bottle

(2) I can start a fire from 20 feet away.....I just call the wife to do it...

[NoshowJones]

How do they stay without the bank balance, income, or combination? Do they lie to the embassy, or are the staying illegally or...?

A very good question Neversure, I would sure like to know the answer. I don't suppose any of these vagrants are OAPs.

[Denizen]

I suggest a charity be started to send some of these sad penurious British losers back to UK where they can live like royalty for pennies.

Perhaps Thailand can levy a tax on visas for British travelers to fund the return of these sad penurious British losers back to UK.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Denizen

[Trembly]

The poorest man i saw was a retired ex Doctor, he had 100.000 baht per month in pension,

but his aggressive thai wife had her claws in his ATM card and didnt give him enough allowance

for 3 full dishes of kao pat, so he came once in a while borrowing 100 baht so he would make it through the day.

He was over 70 years old, what a way to go.

Ed: his rent was 5-6000, drank no beer at all, only ate his rice when he could afford

Truly pitiful.

[Denizen]

The poorest man i saw was a retired ex Doctor, he had 100.000 baht per month in pension,

but his aggressive thai wife had her claws in his ATM card and didnt give him enough allowance

for 3 full dishes of kao pat, so he came once in a while borrowing 100 baht so he would make it through the day.

He was over 70 years old, what a way to go.

Ed: his rent was 5-6000, drank no beer at all, only ate his rice when he could afford

Truly pitiful.

Maybe his wife was preventing him investing all his money on booze and hookers.

[Trembly]

The poorest man i saw was a retired ex Doctor, he had 100.000 baht per month in pension,

but his aggressive thai wife had her claws in his ATM card and didnt give him enough allowance

for 3 full dishes of kao pat, so he came once in a while borrowing 100 baht so he would make it through the day.

He was over 70 years old, what a way to go.

Ed: his rent was 5-6000, drank no beer at all, only ate his rice when he could afford

Truly pitiful.

Maybe his wife was preventing him investing all his money on booze and hookers.

From the post above I just think that the woman is an aggressive parasite who doesn't want him to invest his monthly pension in anything but her.

Mind you, if he allows it he is getting what he deserves. The choice remains his.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Trembly

[poanoi]

I told him the #1 priority is to get the ATM back, since the economy made no sense at all.

He went back told her, and came back and told me that if that was the case, she would divorce.

(while threatening to call police for my schemes on math)

I told him it would be the greatest thing ever, as he could then afford two young gogo girls full time

instead of this old aggressive brat !

Well he didnt want to divorce, i left not long after and dont know what has become of him,

tho i suspect he died hungry