Hand To Mouth.........

[theblether]

@Scotty.......I pay my own way, however I write off a lot of the cost against my companies.

[Chittychangchang]

Sadly, i carn't see the situation improving in the forseable future with the worldwide economy as it stands.

The only consolation for some farangs is they are not all percieved as wealthy by Thais.

In fact i'll go one step futher and say that Farangs will see Thai's as wealthy and seek out wealthy Thai's as a mean to live in Thailand as opposed to the steriotype of Thai's living of farangs. I know of a couple of cases of this happening already!

The way the Thai economy is booming and western economies faltering we can be sure in an exodos of Thai males to Blackpool and such like in search of their dream farang girl and good luck to them.

[robblok]

Its always people looking down on other people. I personally havent seen people like that though i have a friend who could be Scottish he is that tight with money. Though he has enough he lives like a vagrant.

Some people don't need loads of money, i can really live cheap here if i wanted. But I like my luxuries so I don't. People can live here for 20k a month ... hard to imagine for types like theblether but for me i can. I know what i spend and i know i can cut that a whole lot. I make much more then i spend why spend it all.

[robblok]

@Scotty.......I pay my own way, however I write off a lot of the cost against my companies.

Duh that saves a lot making net spendings into ones before taxes. No wonder your the way you are.

[Bluetongue]

Even in the backblocks of Chantaburi we have them. A fellow named Botany Bill lasted here for a long time but he was doing it increasingly hard and eventually went back to OZ. I know of others doing it tough. I know a german guy who died because his missus said she no longer had money to buy his meds. Its cheaper to live in the country but without reigniting that argument you still need some real cash. Nothing gets you nothing but its free.

[robblok]

As far as i know theblether does not even live here but just visits so its not that crazy that he spends a lot more.

I have a budget of 40k a month and could do with less, but i got a gf who also pays her way and pays part of the house and car (novel idea for many).

We got a house / car / 2 motorbikes and i live easy of this money.

Now while travelling and on a holiday i multiply that amount by 3 or so more even if it includes tickets to other countries.

Living somewhere is not expensive, damm you even got many people back home who don't spend the amounts theblether thinks are not a lot. So here its even easier.

[HeavyDrinker]

Business Class...?

Ugh...

I like to peel back the curtain and shudder at the lower orders.

Edited February 17, 2013 by HeavyDrinker

[Tolley]

spending over half a million baht on a 3-month binge in LOS was never going to happen.

That's not a lot of money over three months.

Now come on theblether,now I know you are exagerating! half a million baht @ 46 baht to the GBP = £10,869 divide 3 = £3623 x 46 = 166,666 baht per month,and it's "not a lot of money over three months" your having a laugh,surely?

It is not a lot of money if you are on holidays and are out partying and drinking regularly.

[Jingthing]

Living here as a long term settled expat and being here on a VACATION from overseas are entirely different things, budget-wise. What would someone who has never lived here long term really know about budget issues LIVING here anymore than they would know about living in outer Mongolia?

As far as economically marginal people, doesn't that describe the majority of the world's population? Not sure why it is so amazing in today's shifting world for there to be European destitute people in Asia any more than it would be shocking to find destitute Southeast Asian people in the west.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Jingthing

[NeverSure]

spending over half a million baht on a 3-month binge in LOS was never going to happen.

That's not a lot of money over three months.

Now come on theblether,now I know you are exagerating! half a million baht @ 46 baht to the GBP = £10,869 divide 3 = £3623 x 46 = 166,666 baht per month,and it's "not a lot of money over three months" your having a laugh,surely?

Sounds about right for an all-out 3 month vacation sleeping and eating in good hotels, or if you have a livin' large lifestyle as some members do. Agreed, certainly not needed for ordinary life.

[Chittychangchang]

Indeed, but in Chaing Mai the rate of growing homeless begging farangs is growing more so than any other city in Thailand.

Could anyone care to explain why...

[HeavyDrinker]

Indeed, but in Chaing Mai the rate of growing homeless begging farangs is growing more so than any other city in Thailand.

Could anyone care to explain why...

Because they have no money?

[robblok]

Indeed, but in Chaing Mai the rate of growing homeless begging farangs is growing more so than any other city in Thailand.

Could anyone care to explain why...

Price of beer went up ?

[MrWorldwide]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

[Tolley]

Indeed, but in Chaing Mai the rate of growing homeless begging farangs is growing more so than any other city in Thailand.

Could anyone care to explain why...

It is probably more a sign of the general economic malaise in most western countries than anything else.

For many in the west these days these is no hope and no future so they might as well try and get by in another country which is perceived as cheaper and has better weather.

There might however be a time in the next 10 or 20 years if current trends continue where thailand becomes more expensive than many of the western countries where these same people have fled from.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Tolley

[robblok]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

Its not wrong if you can do it, but it certainly makes things easier with spending. Assuming he owns the company and depending on the tax rate there is a 20-30% saving in it.

[Tolley]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

If you have your own company then you can claim meals and entertainment if they are a legitimate business expense. Of course many people rort these quite a bit but nonetheless blethers claims are not unbelievable.

[MrWorldwide]

While I'm on my soapbox, I'd like to offer this - regardless of how much you currently earn or what your past extravagances may have been, try to keep that pace up for 3 solid months and they will be sending you home in a body bag. We all laugh at Lindsay Lohan, Charlie Sheen etc, but these are just folks with a bigger entertainment budget - its the same madness, albeit taken to extremes. I dont have the perspective of an expat, granted, but you dont have to be Einstein to see how quickly one's behaviour needs to change to survive retirement in Thailand - with that change, I would expect a corresponding decrease in the amount I spend each day, barring a partner who wants to shop in boutiques on a regular basis. Might as well start paying off a Porsche if I'm going to make choices like that ...

[robblok]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

If you have your own company then you can claim meals and entertainment if they are a legitimate business expense. Of course many people rort these quite a bit but nonetheless blethers claims are not unbelievable.

As an accountant many of my clients think they can deduct it all and think once they send it to me its deducted. I of course check the expenses and in doubt i ask and then if no good explanation is coming don't deduct it. Its a lot of barstool talk too about taxes most of the guys have no idea.

[MrWorldwide]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

If you have your own company then you can claim meals and entertainment if they are a legitimate business expense. Of course many people rort these quite a bit but nonetheless blethers claims are not unbelievable.

Unbelievable ? No.

Comparable to the wage slaves here who have to pay 'full freight' for everything, without any subsidy from the taxpayers back home ? No.

If Quentin Tarantino blew 100K USD on a week of partying in Bangkok, KL or Jakarta, how does that relate to my earlier estimate ? Not even on the same planet.

[Tolley]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

If you have your own company then you can claim meals and entertainment if they are a legitimate business expense. Of course many people rort these quite a bit but nonetheless blethers claims are not unbelievable.

As an accountant many of my clients think they can deduct it all and think once they send it to me its deducted. I of course check the expenses and in doubt i ask and then if no good explanation is coming don't deduct it. Its a lot of barstool talk too about taxes most of the guys have no idea.

If you claim that you are going to Thailand on business then you can claim your hotels and food alcohol etc as a legitimate business expense. Plenty of people do it and get away with it. However If the tax dept audit you then you might be required to substantiate those claims.

[Chittychangchang]

Chaing mai has a serene village like feel and i can understand why many tourists go there.

Wealthy or borderline skint it's a nice place to be.

However, more budget orientated expats choose to live there.

I'm not saying people who visit or live in Chaing mai are skinflints on the bones of their bum.

Just saying a percentage might have experienced the economic downturn moreso and that is why the OP has witnessed many homeless and destitute farangs there.

[robblok]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

If you have your own company then you can claim meals and entertainment if they are a legitimate business expense. Of course many people rort these quite a bit but nonetheless blethers claims are not unbelievable.

As an accountant many of my clients think they can deduct it all and think once they send it to me its deducted. I of course check the expenses and in doubt i ask and then if no good explanation is coming don't deduct it. Its a lot of barstool talk too about taxes most of the guys have no idea.

If you claim that you are going to Thailand on business then you can claim your hotels and food alcohol etc as a legitimate business expense. Plenty of people do it and get away with it. However If the tax dept audit you then you might be required to substantiate those claims.

Sure that is an other matter, because many things don't get checked right away (might take years) people think they got away with it hence the barstool talk. Going to a legit course in the USA and adding a week of holiday sure ticket and first week deductible rest not (for example). Just exploring business opportunities in Thailand.. often they wont accept that without some results and some real tangible proof.

[MrWorldwide]

tolley, my point is less about the legality of it and more about the 'apples vs oranges' comparison theblether attempted to make earlier in this thread. A budget, be it for 2 weeks or 20 years, only has meaning if it's coming out of your bank account and represents a reduction in your net worth - in my case, it has usually meant that I've blown my leave pay and a few dollars on top of that, but them's the breaks. You pay your money and you take your chances - unless you are able to hand it over to a creative accountant who makes it all go away. If I remember correctly, weren't creative accountants part of the malaise that plunged us into the GFC ??

[robblok]

Chaing mai has a serene village like feel and i can understand why many tourists go there.

Wealthy or borderline skint it's a nice place to be.

However, more budget orientated expats choose to live there.

I'm not saying people who visit or live in Chaing mai are skinflints on the bones of their bum.

Just saying a percentage might have experienced the economic downturn moreso and that is why the OP has witnessed many homeless and destitute farangs there.

You are right all I ever hear about Changmai is that its cheap ect. I have still to visit it. (always going diving / snorkeling in the south)

[robblok]

tolley, my point is less about the legality of it and more about the 'apples vs oranges' comparison theblether attempted to make earlier in this thread. A budget, be it for 2 weeks or 20 years, only has meaning if it's coming out of your bank account and represents a reduction in your net worth - in my case, it has usually meant that I've blown my leave pay and a few dollars on top of that, but them's the breaks. You pay your money and you take your chances - unless you are able to hand it over to a creative accountant who makes it all go away. If I remember correctly, weren't creative accountants part of the malaise that plunged us into the GFC ??

Point well made and I made the point too... anyway just a bit of chat between me and Tolly about that kind of stuff you know some people like their job.

[Tolley]

tolley, my point is less about the legality of it and more about the 'apples vs oranges' comparison theblether attempted to make earlier in this thread. A budget, be it for 2 weeks or 20 years, only has meaning if it's coming out of your bank account and represents a reduction in your net worth - in my case, it has usually meant that I've blown my leave pay and a few dollars on top of that, but them's the breaks. You pay your money and you take your chances - unless you are able to hand it over to a creative accountant who makes it all go away. If I remember correctly, weren't creative accountants part of the malaise that plunged us into the GFC ??

Well you still are paying for it but you do get to reduce your tax liability but it is not like you dont have to pay for it.

[MrWorldwide]

There are two words they never seem to mention when ranting about joys of Chiang Mai - burning season. I've been lucky re timing, but CM still leaves me wanting the nightlife down south. I guess it's different when you live there and can go to restaurants etc with folks you know.

[JDGRUEN]

If these men who are observed are in the age of 55 years or above and from the USA... I know why they would be in such a situation. With the economy as it is in the U.S. and with a real jobless rate pushing 20% (not the 8% propaganda the government hands out) then one 'goes to where the weather suits my clothes" as sang in Margaritaville. In the U.S. we have employment Age Discrimination laws that are practically never enforced by anyone. Since 2008 millions of men and women over age 55 have lost their jobs. And as a sobering practical matter these people will never get a professional job again. It would seem that homelessness will increase in places like Thailand - at least there people won't freeze at night sleeping under a tree.

While I see this as true. Life would be easier in a warm climate would there not be a sense of pride to make a person not want to end up being broke in a foregin country? I suppose rock bottom is rock bottom but at the average cost of 1200$ for a ticket to get to Thailand that would a bit far from rock bottom. As most countries like the US have a Welfare system where they will give you money and subsadised housing. But hey everyone has a different plan and being boke in a country sucks at least you won't be cold

I would suggest that the men I speak of did not go to Thailand being totally busted ... just went there to get away from continued disappointment at home. As opposed to home a near down and out guy can be somewhat anonymous in Thailand - at least the folks at home won't know. They get here and eventually run out of assets and it is easier to just hang out bum around ... hopefully not wear out their welcome... They sorta ease into it, No job or funds in Thailand is a better deal than no job or funds at home.

[MrWorldwide]

tolley, my point is less about the legality of it and more about the 'apples vs oranges' comparison theblether attempted to make earlier in this thread. A budget, be it for 2 weeks or 20 years, only has meaning if it's coming out of your bank account and represents a reduction in your net worth - in my case, it has usually meant that I've blown my leave pay and a few dollars on top of that, but them's the breaks. You pay your money and you take your chances - unless you are able to hand it over to a creative accountant who makes it all go away. If I remember correctly, weren't creative accountants part of the malaise that plunged us into the GFC ??

Well you still are paying for it but you do get to reduce your tax liability but it is not like you dont have to pay for it.

No argument, but would he get 40% back between the corporate rate on that Business Class seat and his tax breaks ? f so, that '10K a day' mentioned earlier suddenly becomes 6K - apples to apples.