Hand To Mouth.........

[theblether]

@JDGRUEN. There lies the answer, ensure that you can depend upon yourself and not be dragged down by funding other people that you cannot afford.

The earlier story about the Doctor with the aggressive Thai wife that laid claim to his ATM card, well, if true, what a tragedy. Spending your life helping other people to be reduced to penury by a black hearted female. I get the impression that the guy felt entrapped, and the worst of it is it was a trap easily escaped from, however when people are of an age and vulnerable then they can't see a way out.

I think we will see an inevitable rise in vulnerable farangs being taken advantage of in Thailand, but to be fair, I don't think that's exclusive to Thailand, vulnerable elderly people are victimized every day in the West, usually by the people closest to them, and that just confounds the tragedy.

.

Edited February 17, 2013 by theblether

[JDGRUEN]

Ehm.......where do I start? I only mentioned the fact I travel Business Class 8 times a year to rebutt a flame that I can't afford to stay in Thailand.

So how about we drop that nonsense?, the day I can't afford a £500 flight and the required income to live in Thailand I'll take the solution suggested by MrWorldWide.

The topic is about people living hand to mouth...........JT has predicted a boom in the numbers of breadline Retirees from the States. Here's my prediction, the Thais will get sick of the problems caused by dealing with people of this ilk and they will raise the bar even higher as far as retirement visas and the like are concerned.

For those that think that the "Grandfather" clause will be their salvation, you may well be right, but I predict a surge in arbitrary visa extension refusals. One member ( apologies for not tracking back to get the name ) on this thread has already said that the Visa officer questioned his right to stay because he didn't like the look of him.

If? When? that comes to pass there will be a fair few irritated guys on here complaining bitterly about being unfairly targetted due to the insidious effect of the Hand To Mouth Brigade.

ps. Obviously if I ever get refused a visa I'll just nip down to the airport and book a flight out. Business Class of course.

I think that Thailand's neighbors will more and more compete to Farang Expats reside there. i predict that Cambodia, Laos and Burma will modify their Visa and Residency laws in the coming years offsetting any growth in Thailand Visa restrictions. Then there are places like Panama that have recently reset their Visa / Residency requirements to become inducements for Westerners to come Retire there ...

http://internationalliving.com/countries/panama/retire/

Panama and Costa Rica are a lot closer to the USA and will likely become attractive to some.

And I can drive a car to Panama and Costa Rica - from Texas...

Edited February 17, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[overherebc]

Fair point, but surely it's a hellish existence living in Thailand with no money?

Probably the happiest people I've met in Thailand have been Buddhist monks.

i never saw a smiling monk.

Sorry to say, I have, a good few years ago around Soi 4 in Bkk. His driver was also smiling as he opened the back door of the merc.

Sorry, no pictures.

[theblether]

Ehm.......where do I start? I only mentioned the fact I travel Business Class 8 times a year to rebutt a flame that I can't afford to stay in Thailand.

So how about we drop that nonsense?, the day I can't afford a £500 flight and the required income to live in Thailand I'll take the solution suggested by MrWorldWide.

The topic is about people living hand to mouth...........JT has predicted a boom in the numbers of breadline Retirees from the States. Here's my prediction, the Thais will get sick of the problems caused by dealing with people of this ilk and they will raise the bar even higher as far as retirement visas and the like are concerned.

For those that think that the "Grandfather" clause will be their salvation, you may well be right, but I predict a surge in arbitrary visa extension refusals. One member ( apologies for not tracking back to get the name ) on this thread has already said that the Visa officer questioned his right to stay because he didn't like the look of him.

If? When? that comes to pass there will be a fair few irritated guys on here complaining bitterly about being unfairly targetted due to the insidious effect of the Hand To Mouth Brigade.

ps. Obviously if I ever get refused a visa I'll just nip down to the airport and book a flight out. Business Class of course.

I think that Thailand's neighbors will more and more compete to Farang Expats reside there. i predict that Cambodia, Laos and Burma will modify their Visa and Residency laws in the coming years offsetting any growth in Thailand Visa restrictions. Then there are places like Panama that have recently reset their Visa / Residency requirements to become inducements for Westerners to come Retire there ...

http://international.../panama/retire/

Panama and Costa Rica are a lot closer to the USA and will likely become attractive to some.

And I can drive a car to Panama and Costa Rica - from Texas...

I read recently that Ecuador was the best place for North Americans to retire to. One things for sure, there won't be any shortage of retirees as the Baby Boomers come of age.

[CHRISTIANa9]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

If you have your own company then you can claim meals and entertainment if they are a legitimate business expense. Of course many people rort these quite a bit but nonetheless blethers claims are not unbelievable.

As an accountant many of my clients think they can deduct it all and think once they send it to me its deducted. I of course check the expenses and in doubt i ask and then if no good explanation is coming don't deduct it. Its a lot of barstool talk too about taxes most of the guys have no idea.

If you claim that you are going to Thailand on business then you can claim your hotels and food alcohol etc as a legitimate business expense. Plenty of people do it and get away with it. However If the tax dept audit you then you might be required to substantiate those claims.

Just write a business report for every trip. That will do.

[MrWorldwide]

I'm just waiting for someone to recommend Guatemala City as a retirement destination. I have no doubt that it's cheap to live there - life itself is definitely cheap in that part of the world - provided you can afford a team of ex-Special Forces soldiers around you 24/7. You know you're in trouble when a city rates higher than Ciudad Juarez on the 'World's Most Dangerous Cities' list.

Way to go Spain - you messed up most of South and Central America (Chile and Argentina dragging themselves out of the mire, but both have had their problems), the Phillipines and Ibiza (ok, I made that last one up - there is no such place, of course ..)

We can moan and bitch about the influx of Farang without enough money to support themselves longterm, but I think Thailand still has a long way to go before it degenerates into a banana republic, South American style. Cyclical military coups, constant political instability, open disrespect for the rule of law, illicit d*ugs as a major income earner for the country and a Police force riddled with endemic corruption : that's how you build a banana republic.

(Just out of curiosity, without Googling it, how many here think Brazil is a former Spanish colony ? Come on - own up - we all need a good laugh. Brazil is an economic powerhouse, but they are prepared to do it at the expense of the Amazon. Interesting times ahead)

[theblether]

Very droll Mr WorldWide.

[smokie36]

Very droll Mr WorldWide.

Quite.

I always say the most dangerous person you will meet in Thailand is the on his ar*e expat.....some of them will resort to anything in order to prolong their dream.

You have been warned!

[NeverSure]

If these men who are observed are in the age of 55 years or above and from the USA... I know why they would be in such a situation. With the economy as it is in the U.S. and with a real jobless rate pushing 20% (not the 8% propaganda the government hands out) then one 'goes to where the weather suits my clothes" as sang in Margaritaville. In the U.S. we have employment Age Discrimination laws that are practically never enforced by anyone. Since 2008 millions of men and women over age 55 have lost their jobs. And as a sobering practical matter these people will never get a professional job again. It would seem that homelessness will increase in places like Thailand - at least there people won't freeze at night sleeping under a tree.

I see a lot of "likes" and a "popular" icon for this. I have to wonder how many of them are from the US? And isn't every Western country facing high unemployment and economic uncertainty?

If I were on my arse I'd far rather be in the US than Thailand. Unemployment is irrelevant because many are too old to work even teaching school in LOS.

As a US citizen, if I were broke there are many safety nets including food stamps and medicaid medical care. I keep hearing "warm climate" about LOS vs US but there are many near tropical areas in the Southern US where any citizen may go. The US has many homeless shelters such as the Salvation Army and Union Gospel Mission scattered all over. They will provide food, shelter and clothing. If a person is dirt poor there is a small minimum social security cash allowance. If a person is disabled mentally or physically there is SSI income. There are free housing programs. Consumer goods are cheaper in the US than LOS.

Yes, a person could be really hard up in the US but the only ones I know are really down and out alcoholics or druggies who spend their last dimes on their habits immediately. They even trade their food stamps for drugs and alcohol.

I would never get down to that last bit to buy a plane ticket back to where I'm a citizen, don't need permission to be there, can work without permission, and have a "right" to certain safety nets. That's IF I didn't have lifelong friends who would also lend me a couch for a while.

[geriatrickid]

If you want hardship try Spain.It is almost 27% and Spanish youth have an unemployment rate of almost 57%.

Thailand with its less than 1% rate seems like a well managed economy.

If some foreigner is living hand to mouth, why is it an important issue? There are many reasons for it, none of which I really care about..

I didn't tell these foreigners to move to Thailand and live like that. They managed to get themselves into that state and they can get themselves out of that state. The first step is to stop with the booze and flesh vendors. Invariably, when some guy lands on his posterior cheap floozies and cheap booze are usually involved. At least these people aren't standing on street corners with a squeegee washing messing up car windshields.

[poanoi]

If you bother about insignificant others, -give them an allowance (with or without appropriate favor in return)

For me, anyone is free to live in whatever way seem suitable,

as long as they dont disturb me with begging or otherwise

Edited February 18, 2013 by poanoi

[chiangmaikelly]

If you want hardship try Spain.It is almost 27% and Spanish youth have an unemployment rate of almost 57%.

Thailand with its less than 1% rate seems like a well managed economy.

If some foreigner is living hand to mouth, why is it an important issue? There are many reasons for it, none of which I really care about..

I didn't tell these foreigners to move to Thailand and live like that. They managed to get themselves into that state and they can get themselves out of that state. The first step is to stop with the booze and flesh vendors. Invariably, when some guy lands on his posterior cheap floozies and cheap booze are usually involved. At least these people aren't standing on street corners with a squeegee washing messing up car windshields.

Oh stop with the cheap floozy stuff. If some court had not raped them of all their assets they would not be in Thailand and I doubt if flesh peddlers or cheap floozies were involved. The first fortune I lost had nothing to do with booze or a cheap floozy. It was a pillar of the community and his conniving sister.

[Morakot]

I thought this thread was about transmission routes of infectious diseases, reading the headline.

Not sure whether to feel relieved or not.

[Semper]

Most people I know live "hand to mouth" but they are Thai. They seem to be doing ok, never heard a complaint from them.

[CMHomeboy78]

Down and out farangs have always been part of the scene here.

Percentage-wise it seemed there were more in the '70s than there are now; and probably more yet in colonial times in East Asia as a whole.

Somerset Maugham encountered so many on his travels in the '20s and '30s that they provided material for some of his best short stories.

The concluding part of his novel, The Gentleman in the Parlour deals with an Englishman who was for over twenty years a tide-waiter with the Hong Kong customs inspecting small boats for opium and other contraband.

His dream was to return to England and play the toff with the money he had made from bribes. On his arrival in London he fell sick from the climate and everything else went wrong as well.

Within six months he had shot his load and decided to return to Hong Kong. He never got farther than Haiphong where he led a low-rent existence with a local woman and her old crone of a mother who was a dab hand at preparing his opium pipe.

Maugham makes a good story out of it. Maybe it was based on one person, or a composite of more than one, or maybe all of us.

[HeijoshinCool]

I thought this thread was about transmission routes of infectious diseases, reading the headline.

Not sure whether to feel relieved or not.

I thought it was about the noodle shop owner near my house, when she fixed customer's soup after visiting the squat.

[rene123]

Despite the sweeping generalizations this has been a good, lively topic with lots of insiteful replies. I haven't spent a lot of time in Europe, so I can't speak of their situation, but I DO understand what goes on in North America and I've heard all the stories about Central and South America.

Thailand is protecting its own...AS IT SHOULD! It's just too bad if a foreigner doesn't understand the rules and laws of Thailand. Thailand does NOT want a wealthy foreign country to virtually buy everything. That is why they don't allow foreigners to purchase land. You can buy the structures built on the land, but not the land itself. That is why foreigners need to have a Thai partner if they want to start a business. That is true with the marriage laws as well. And,that is how it should be. It's just too bad if a few individuals who have made poor choices in life get hurt in the process.

Contrast that with Canada which allowed wealthy American companies to buy huge tracts of formerly public land, Now, Canadians are at the mercy of foreign powers and have no say in what happens to their own country.That is also a generalization, but with a lot of truth in the matter.I'm not going to bore everyone with a lot of details proving my point but the facts are there if anyone wants to do the research. Half of Vancouver Island was given to a coal magnate for no other reason than he built a railway half way up the island. The railway was SUPPOSED to operate continually, forever, but that has turned into a joke. There are many other examples.

Thailand has not allowed that to happen and in so doing can manage its own destiny for good or for bad.

Despite that, most of the poor in North America are poor by choice. They are mostly lazy, stupid or have chosen not to have enrolled in one of the free educations available to everyone.

[MrWorldwide]

Yeah - have to admit I was pretty stunned when a Malaysian told me he had no problems with Singaporeans buying land in Johor and other parts of Malaysia without any apparent govt oversight. I know there are strong historical and ethnic ties between the two countries, but I dont know if Malaysians can buy land on Singapore so easily.

[StreetCowboy]

Yeah - have to admit I was pretty stunned when a Malaysian told me he had no problems with Singaporeans buying land in Johor and other parts of Malaysia without any apparent govt oversight. I know there are strong historical and ethnic ties between the two countries, but I dont know if Malaysians can buy land on Singapore so easily.

I'm not sure I would like my government telling me whom I could sell land to.

SC

[Jangot]

Down and out farangs have always been part of the scene here.

Percentage-wise it seemed there were more in the '70s than there are now; and probably more yet in colonial times in East Asia as a whole.

Somerset Maugham encountered so many on his travels in the '20s and '30s that they provided material for some of his best short stories.

The concluding part of his novel, The Gentleman in the Parlour deals with an Englishman who was for over twenty years a tide-waiter with the Hong Kong customs inspecting small boats for opium and other contraband.

His dream was to return to England and play the toff with the money he had made from bribes. On his arrival in London he fell sick from the climate and everything else went wrong as well.

Within six months he had shot his load and decided to return to Hong Kong. He never got farther than Haiphong where he led a low-rent existence with a local woman and her old crone of a mother who was a dab hand at preparing his opium pipe.

Maugham makes a good story out of it. Maybe it was based on one person, or a composite of more than one, or maybe all of us.

Yes, so many stories from so many good authors about (mostly) men who come to the far East as vibrant young men and end up as wrecks in opium dens, or similar. So it is no new thing.

Really good read is "Saint Jack" by Paul Theroux. Jack jumps ship in Singapore and survives hand to mouth in Singapore's underworld,

[Naam]

Yeah - have to admit I was pretty stunned when a Malaysian told me he had no problems with Singaporeans buying land in Johor and other parts of Malaysia without any apparent govt oversight. I know there are strong historical and ethnic ties between the two countries, but I dont know if Malaysians can buy land on Singapore so easily.

not that easily because the cost of SG land is fifteen to twentyfold compared to Johor land

[StreetCowboy]

Yeah - have to admit I was pretty stunned when a Malaysian told me he had no problems with Singaporeans buying land in Johor and other parts of Malaysia without any apparent govt oversight. I know there are strong historical and ethnic ties between the two countries, but I dont know if Malaysians can buy land on Singapore so easily.

not that easily because the cost of SG land is fifteen to twentyfold compared to Johor land

And, if I recall correctly, foreigners can't own land in Singapore. Not sure if Malaysians count as foreigners, though.

Sure enough, 30 seconds' research indicates that I am wrong, but there are restrictions and approvals required for foreigners to purchase residential land in Singapore

SC

[MrWorldwide]

Yeah - have to admit I was pretty stunned when a Malaysian told me he had no problems with Singaporeans buying land in Johor and other parts of Malaysia without any apparent govt oversight. I know there are strong historical and ethnic ties between the two countries, but I dont know if Malaysians can buy land on Singapore so easily.

I'm not sure I would like my government telling me whom I could sell land to.

SC

I dont know about your part of the world, but in Oz you are effectively buying a 'perpetual lease' on the top 2-3 metres of the land - the Crown retains the rights to anything below that. There is a huge shitstorm in Oz at the moment over fracking - farmers and other land owners have been forced to pay lawyers to stop mining companies drilling on their land. Similarly, unlike the US, beachfront land belongs to the public from the point where it becomes a 'beach' - you cant legally tell surfers they have no right to paddle out directly in front of your home.

Every country has the right to decide who can and cannot own the assets of their country : the key lies in striking a balance between foreign investment and local ownership. Malaysia has some openly racist laws designed to protect (nominally) poorer Malays from the situation many young Australians find themselves in today : home ownership completely out of reach for anyone on average weekly earnings. With the 'Malay only' land locked up, I assume that the government sees the remainder as 'fair game' - pure speculation on my part, but it makes sense that Johor would be extremely popular with Singaporeans priced out of their own tiny market.

[HardenedSoul]

Despite the sweeping generalizations this has been a good, lively topic with lots of insiteful replies. I haven't spent a lot of time in Europe, so I can't speak of their situation, but I DO understand what goes on in North America and I've heard all the stories about Central and South America.

Thailand is protecting its own...AS IT SHOULD! It's just too bad if a foreigner doesn't understand the rules and laws of Thailand. Thailand does NOT want a wealthy foreign country to virtually buy everything. That is why they don't allow foreigners to purchase land. You can buy the structures built on the land, but not the land itself. That is why foreigners need to have a Thai partner if they want to start a business. That is true with the marriage laws as well. And,that is how it should be. It's just too bad if a few individuals who have made poor choices in life get hurt in the process.

Contrast that with Canada which allowed wealthy American companies to buy huge tracts of formerly public land, Now, Canadians are at the mercy of foreign powers and have no say in what happens to their own country.That is also a generalization, but with a lot of truth in the matter.I'm not going to bore everyone with a lot of details proving my point but the facts are there if anyone wants to do the research. Half of Vancouver Island was given to a coal magnate for no other reason than he built a railway half way up the island. The railway was SUPPOSED to operate continually, forever, but that has turned into a joke. There are many other examples.

Thailand has not allowed that to happen and in so doing can manage its own destiny for good or for bad.

Despite that, most of the poor in North America are poor by choice. They are mostly lazy, stupid or have chosen not to have enrolled in one of the free educations available to everyone.

Nice post.

If a foreigner really wants to buy land in Thailand, he/she can always apply for citizenship, get the ID card and buy to his/her heart's content.

[Stradavarius37]

The amount of old people who seem to exist here without love and family is staggering. Suicide bag indeed....

[MrWorldwide]

The amount of old people who seem to exist here without love and family is staggering. Suicide bag indeed....

And I believe that trend will only intensify in coming decades. I suggested the exit bag purely as an alternative to the prospect of ending up totally destitute on the streets : I don't subscribe to the notion that 'where there is life, there's hope' - not at the age of most expats in Thailand and other parts of Asia. For many years, the very idea of taking one's own life was contrary to everything I had been indoctrinated with from my baptism onward - I believe that began to change after 4 years in the Army. We aren;t talking about angst-ridden teenagers here - how much longer would most of these folks live even if they did get back to Farangland in one piece ? And at what cost to the community they turned their back on 20-30 years earlier ?

Sooner or later, everyone here will face their own mortality - I'd prefer to go out on my own terms, but that's just me.

[Briggsy]

What is an exit bag, Mr Worldwide?

[poanoi]

Whats good about family & love ?

[diddums]

What is an exit bag, Mr Worldwide?

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/01/10/1041990097685.html

[SparklingCascades]

The poorest man i saw was a retired ex Doctor, he had 100.000 baht per month in pension,

but his aggressive thai wife had her claws in his ATM card and didnt give him enough allowance

for 3 full dishes of kao pat, so he came once in a while borrowing 100 baht so he would make it through the day.

He was over 70 years old, what a way to go.

Ed: his rent was 5-6000, drank no beer at all, only ate his rice when he could afford

Baht 100k per mth equals USD 3,000-. Many Thai beach towns offer 1BR condo's with gym, pool, security for THB 20k - 30k per month. To this add THB 30k for singles living exps, maybe THB 50k couples. Maybe this old doc lived at the Hilton and scraped to get by on Baht 100k per mth. Talking to a foreman in one of our factories he looks after extended family for less without scraping the barrel for 100baht loans. Edited February 18, 2013 by SparklingCascades