Street Food Vending Business In Los?

[klubex99]

I am posting this in the general section because I think it relates more to general conditions and attitudes here than just a decent business idea.

I have a friend who is moving here in 4 months. He has sold his business in the UK and wants to emulate it here in LOS, and has been asking me or should I say 'picking my brains' for answers on the subject.

His background is already in the food industry, with his business running several street food carts in the UK. He knows what he is doing. But we all know that the 'UK is the UK', and 'LOS is LOS'. Totally different. I have been living here in Korat for 3 years and I know how it all works round here. But he is wanting to set up several food carts in Pattaya (Walking St etc....) and BKK (Soi Cowboy, Kao San Rd.....etc.)

He has been to LOS a few times, so he knows the score. I have also been to a lot of these 'high trafficked' falang ' havens where he wants to site carts. I must add that I said i wouldn't mention the food product, but is very popular with falang and Thai alike. But for some reason there is no or 'close to no' competition.

Here are my concerns.

Without knowing who he is needing to pay baksheesh to, he could be in for trouble from the 'official' side of things. City Hall, Police, etc etc....

Local Thai mafia, as well as local 'non-Thai' mafia. Not sure exactly how bad that is in these places.

Local businesses selling food, not too happy with someone else feeding the falang.

Official pitch rates to site a food cart in these places. Permits etc...

Apart from that, the guy has overcome problems in the UK from local muscle trying to push him out when they saw a good thing. He is more than capable, but again this is LOS.

He will be running these stalls almost 24/7 and will hire Thais to run the carts meaning he can set up here and get the work permit no probs, he does have a Thai gf.

Can anyone here offer any other advice?

Good idea? or bad idea?

I am expecting a huge negative response, and that is a good thing. But surely there must be some positives to come out of it. I would prefer advice from someone who knows what they are talking about, even more preferable from experience. Don't just come on here because you heard that a friend of a friend who has a Thai wife who has a friend who has a falang husband has had this or that problem. We all know how much BS gets distorted here and blown up out of proportion.

It's always better to give advice from experience, not from gossip.

Personally, I think his idea is very good if he can overcome the humps. I like to remain positive and I don't just try to put people off because I think that I know best. He can get that negative crap anywhere, there are plenty of people who don't like to see other falang do well, usually because they failed themselves and it doesn't taste too good.

I think we all have noticed that. So if you have personal experience of your own business problems encountered here in LOS, please feel free to tell your story. Trolls, just go elsewhere, I won't even answer a troll post.

Thanks in advance.

[harryfrompattaya]

Great idea I have been doing the same but not 24/7. Everything in wife name for 24 years. It is making lot of money And nobody knows I am behind it.

Please tell me that why should help your friend make 20 million baht a year for nothing? However if he pays another story

[klubex99]

Great idea I have been doing the same but not 24/7. Everything in wife name for 24 years. It is making lot of money And nobody knows I am behind it.

Please tell me that why should help your friend make 20 million baht a year for nothing? However if he pays another story

Wow.... Much kudos to you. Great to see that someone is making a killing at it. I think there is plenty of room for him and he knows what he is doing in that business.

I wouldn't ask him to pay me for advice. I already have my own businesses in Korat and me and wifey are more than comfortable here in our own little niches. I suppose he would be happy to pay the odd backhander for things to go smooth. But I told him that I don't even know if he would have to. You would need to pay certain people up here in Korat but not a lot. I was assuming that in Pattaya and BKK it may be a different story. But you seem to be doing very well, so I think this is more than possible for him.

[krisb]

Theres gonna be politics. Especially selling on others turf.

[klubex99]

Theres gonna be politics. Especially selling on others turf.

I don't doubt that one bit.

But then there is a difference between being careful about siting your carts, and downright taking the piss.

[CHdiver]

First thing that comes to my mind, why on earth did he sell his business in the UK before he did actually did all the necessary legwork in Thailand. I mean he was in Thailand several times, enough time to find out if his business plan is possible. Does not sound like a well thought out plan at the moment, at least not with the "big brain".

[klubex99]

First thing that comes to my mind, why on earth did he sell his business in the UK before he did actually did all the necessary legwork in Thailand. I mean he was in Thailand several times, enough time to find out if his business plan is possible. Does not sound like a well thought out plan at the moment, at least not with the "big brain".

Well that is what he is doing isn't it?

He sold his business because he is moving here in 4 months, so what do you want him to do? sell it after he has moved here? He has made a lot of money and has walked away with a huge amount of money for his business as a going concern. All from £1000 initial investment. I would say if anyone can turn £1000 into more than a million and have a £250,000 house is not stupid.

He has already researched all the official side of it, it is ME who is warning him that there could be 'unofficial' pitfalls, which is why I am asking here. As far as he is concerned, he is coming and he is going to do it come hell or high water.

There are things here that lurk in the shadows, that only people who have actual 'feet on the street' experience of. The rest just make it up.

Edited February 18, 2013 by klubex99

[Beechboy]

Street food that appeals to farangs? That sounds ominous.

The current horsemeat scare means that burgers and hot-dogs are strictly off the menu for most Europeans. Eating habits are changing overnight and that's one form of 'street meat' that I, personally, would no longer be interested in.

Now,a nice bag of fish and chips would be fine. I would be there every other night.

[loong]

If he has more than 1 million Pounds, you might suggest that he may get a better return by buying up cheap property in the UK and renting it out.

No experience with vending carts, but from my missus's experience of selling food, if she had to be away from the business for a while, takings would drop. It can be difficult to get trustworthy staff who can be honest when handling money.

Your friend would have to have some sort of bond from his employees, otherwise there has to be a high risk of the employee disappearing with the cart, the product and the day's takings.

[aussiebebe]

I have lots of negative advice about a foreigner trying is hand at a street-food vending business; problems galore and if he has a million pounds he should just invest it and get a good funds manager. However, one positive I could add is that I've never seen corn dogs stalls in Thailand. There's a really good shop in K-Village (a walk from Phrom Phong BTS) and most people like corn dogs; I've visited and they are popular with Thais.

[Semper]

He knows what he is doing.

Signing in to TV and ask these questions by himself could not be to difficult IMO. But as usual, it's always 'a friend' who's asking.

[simple1]

Is your friend's Thai GF business minded, better for him to have a Thai to check out with Pattaya City Hall etc for any legal issues with him staying in the background.

Your friend may be a smart businessman, but does he know Thai "'style", stay well away from "influential people" both Thai and Westerners.

Are you 100% sure the product is unique and cannot be relatively easily copied?

[klubex99]

Street food that appeals to farangs? That sounds ominous.

The current horsemeat scare means that burgers and hot-dogs are strictly off the menu for most Europeans. Eating habits are changing overnight and that's one form of 'street meat' that I, personally, would no longer be interested in.

Now,a nice bag of fish and chips would be fine. I would be there every other night.

Horsemeat?

Did I miss something on the news?, I heard from my wife that there is a story flying around the internet saying that there is a current scandal with beef in the markets actually being buffalo, I am not sure if she means the farm animal or farang meat. Horses would be a new addition to the gossip.

I can get fish and chips in Korat, but its never the same as a UK chippy. Pattaya has some decent fish and chips, but few and far between.

[klubex99]

Is your friend's Thai GF business minded, better for him to have a Thai to check out with Pattaya City Hall etc for any legal issues with him staying in the background.

Your friend may be a smart businessman, but does he know Thai "'style", stay well away from "influential people" both Thai and Westerners.

Are you 100% sure the product is unique and cannot be relatively easily copied?

That is one of the things I already told him.

If something is going well, it gets noticed and then copied and the Thais don't have a problem setting up within 3 feet of your cart.

[klubex99]

He knows what he is doing.

Signing in to TV and ask these questions by himself could not be to difficult IMO. But as usual, it's always 'a friend' who's asking.

I doubt he even knows about TV.

He is not asking me to ask, I want to give him better advice than I have already and I really don't know how it goes on in BKK/Pattaya.

In my opinion, I wouldn't do it. It's too high profile for my tastes, I like to be low brow over here.

[Beechboy]

K99 wrote:

"Horsemeat?

Did I miss something on the news?, I heard from my wife that there is a story flying around the internet saying that there is a current scandal with beef in the markets actually being buffalo, I am not sure if she means the farm animal or farang meat. Horses would be a new addition to the gossip.

I can get fish and chips in Korat, but its never the same as a UK chippy. Pattaya has some decent fish and chips, but few and far between."

The current food scare throughout Europe concerns the fact that horsemeat has been detected in many processed meat products.

I am not so sure that it is the actual horsemeat issue that is causing too much concern (although it is a bit of a taboo thing in the UK, for example,) but more the mis-labelling and the fact that the handling of this product cannot be traced back to source ie. the condition of the animals slaughtered etc. Mafia groups in as far away and poorly regulated Romania are said to have been involved in this scandal.

More significantly, it seems to have led to a general awareness about just what goes into some of these processed meat products. A pork sausage (or hot-dog) could contain a mixture of hog's <deleted>, sow's ears and rusk and it would still be correctly labelled as pork.

I personally do not think that this is a 'fly-by-night' scare and that many, many people are now re-considering their eating habits. All, from Supermarket lasagnes to the street vendor's burger will be viewed with suspicion to the extent that this would not be the ideal time to launch such a venture.

We need to know what exactly we are eating. I liked the horsemeat I eat a lot in Belgium some time ago and knew that it was correctly sourced. I have eaten dog twice in Cambodia, although I could have sworn that the second time it was crocodile meat.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Beechboy

[arthurwait]

He could always go and ask the other burger van on Soi Cowboy.

Or the always empty chip shop round the corner or the 24 hour subway or the pizza restaurant on the corner or any of the many pubs there doing western food or the 24 hrs mcdonalds or the KFC just over the road or the mexican just over the road or the indian around the corner or the mexican up the road or cheap thai place around the corner or the blooming nice deep fried chicken stall or any of the dozens of Thai trollies lining the road or the annoying peanut guy or the 3 7/11's or the ...........

Edit : or the kebab stall or the chicken nugget and fries or the more will come to me soon.

Edited February 18, 2013 by arthurwait

[Hedghog]

£250.000 for a house in the Uk,is no big deal.

Must be a small house.

In the north.

[Hedghog]

A small BBQ,stall just outside of town.

Turnover 1million Bht per year.

Selling BBQ rat,niche market.

[kennedy]

My wife was in this kind business years ago( Bangkok.) I won't get into the details, but it will be a can of worms if he ever opens up.

[klubex99]

K99 wrote:

"Horsemeat?

Did I miss something on the news?, I heard from my wife that there is a story flying around the internet saying that there is a current scandal with beef in the markets actually being buffalo, I am not sure if she means the farm animal or farang meat. Horses would be a new addition to the gossip.

I can get fish and chips in Korat, but its never the same as a UK chippy. Pattaya has some decent fish and chips, but few and far between."

The current food scare throughout Europe concerns the fact that horsemeat has been detected in many processed meat products.

I am not so sure that it is the actual horsemeat issue that is causing too much concern (although it is a bit of a taboo thing in the UK, for example,) but more the mis-labelling and the fact that the handling of this product cannot be traced back to source ie. the condition of the animals slaughtered etc. Mafia groups in as far away and poorly regulated Romania are said to have been involved in this scandal.

More significantly, it seems to have led to a general awareness about just what goes into some of these processed meat products. A pork sausage (or hot-dog) could contain a mixture of hog's <deleted>, sow's ears and rusk and it would still be correctly labelled as pork.

I personally do not think that this is a 'fly-by-night' scare and that many, many people are now re-considering their eating habits. All, from Supermarket lasagnes to the street vendor's burger will be viewed with suspicion to the extent that this would not be the ideal time to launch such a venture.

We need to know what exactly we are eating. I liked the horsemeat I eat a lot in Belgium some time ago and knew that it was correctly sourced. I have eaten dog twice in Cambodia, although I could have sworn that the second time it was crocodile meat.

Awesome last line.

I also have eaten chevalle (Horsemeat) in France. I thought it was very nice, not eaten dog though (to my knowledge) but I have been to most of the countries that serve it.

This all reminds me of being back in the UK. I have worked in a few towns and cities there in my time, and no matter where you are, the locals all have the same story of the local Chinese takeaway was found with a dead dog's head in the fridge, or similar stories. But the truth is, even if that is true, there would be no danger of them serving it to the public, they would likely keep it for their own consumption.

But I just think it is mostly gossip, I also heard a similar story in South Africa.....lol.... word gets around.

Personally, I don't really care too much what is in my food so long as it is not harmful, and is tasty, and of course.... I don't know about it.

[klubex99]

£250.000 for a house in the Uk,is no big deal.

Must be a small house.

In the north.

Really?

No actually.. It is in Oxfordshire and is a 4 bedroom detached.

Small house in the north? I come from the north, and a small house is not £250,000 a small house is less than £100K

Just Google the online estate agents to show how much you are talking <deleted>.

Of course there are always exceptions in the nice little conservative villages. But on the whole, your post is full of crap and most UK folks know it.

Try buying that £250K house off in less than 4 years and that gives you an idea.

Ooooops.... Sorry, I said I wouldn't bother answering trolls.... My bad.

Edited February 18, 2013 by klubex99

[loong]

£250.000 for a house in the Uk,is no big deal.

Must be a small house.

In the north.

Really?

No actually.. It is in Oxfordshire and is a 5 bedroom detached.

Small house in the north? I come from the north, and a small house is not £250,000 a small house is less than £100K

Just Google the online estate agents to show how much you are talking <deleted>.

Of course there are always exceptions in the nice little conservative villages. But on the whole, your post is full of crap and most UK folks know it.

Try buying that £250K house off in less than 4 years and that gives you an idea.

Ooooops.... Sorry, I said I wouldn't bother answering trolls.... My bad.

Yes.

And that is why I suggested in my earlier post that your friend should maybe look at buying cheap properties in the UK to rent out.

I million pounds, he could buy at least 10 properties, each yielding 600 Pounds per month (in the right area)

6,000 Pounds per month after management fees would still be 4,800 Pounds. Worth considering.

[arthurwait]

Ok if he is wanting to sell farang food in these places his market will just be farangs as the thais in these places can't afford anything that will make him a decent profit and very rarely stray from Esarn food anyway.

Most people eat from vans etc in the UK because it is cheap and because nothing else is open. As posted previously there plenty of places open 24 hrs up there.

Most western food done by thais is quite frankly rubbish so why risk a fast food van instead of getting a cheese burger at macdonalds for 39 Baht or a subway from about 90 Baht ? Pizza or curry 200-300 baht all in clean air conditioned places ?

Many farangs won't eat off tolleys here for fear of Thai hygeine standards, as his trolleys will have to be fronted by Thais people will think the same.

Many other farangs want to eat Thai food while here and you can buy lots of different dishes for 30 Baht. If you want cheap trolley eats then this could be a better option.

Setting up in tourist areas he may just find the same as most the bar owners do, there is just too much competition already and no where near enough western tourists anymore.

[klubex99]

To quote a post on another thread which I enjoyed reading.

A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him - David Brinkley.

However, my personal fave....

Success is not built on success. It's built on failure. It's built on frustration. Sometimes it's built on catastrophe.- Sumner Redstone.

Edited February 18, 2013 by klubex99

[bigbamboo]

It all sounded plausible until you mentioned where he wanted to set up. I fancy those sites will be well and truly sewn up.

But elsewhere such a business can do very well from nothing here, especially with a smart Thai in tow.

[bigbamboo]

To quote a post on another thread which I enjoyed reading.

A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him - David Brinkley.

However, my personal fave....

Success is not built on success. It's built on failure. It's built on frustration. Sometimes it's built on catastrophe.- Sumner Redstone.

'Success is built on knowing the right people in power'

R Abramovich.

[klubex99]

Ok if he is wanting to sell farang food in these places his market will just be farangs as the thais in these places can't afford anything that will make him a decent profit and very rarely stray from Esarn food anyway.

Most people eat from vans etc in the UK because it is cheap and because nothing else is open. As posted previously there plenty of places open 24 hrs up there.

Most western food done by thais is quite frankly rubbish so why risk a fast food van instead of getting a cheese burger at macdonalds for 39 Baht or a subway from about 90 Baht ? Pizza or curry 200-300 baht all in clean air conditioned places ?

Many farangs won't eat off tolleys here for fear of Thai hygeine standards, as his trolleys will have to be fronted by Thais people will think the same.

Many other farangs want to eat Thai food while here and you can buy lots of different dishes for 30 Baht. If you want cheap trolley eats then this could be a better option.

Setting up in tourist areas he may just find the same as most the bar owners do, there is just too much competition already and no where near enough western tourists anymore.

That is a very good post.

What you said about the investing in properties, is good sound advice, I will mention that to him. I think he has over a million and I know he is not selling his house, but is renting out through an agent. So that may be something he may well do.

I think really he is just looking for something to do here, he can't sit still. He made a nice chunk from selling his business when an offer was made that he couldn't refuse and considering his position. Like me, he has become pig sick of the way the UK is going. He wants out, he no longer wants to pay tax to that government. I can understand this, its been a driving force in my decision to leave.

I doubt he is going to put much money into what he wants to do here, probably less than a million baht. But at least it will serve to set his new (coming) Thai family, and at least they can do most of the work, and we all know that eventually they will 'inherit' it as their own, so why not. It will give him a buzz and if he loses it all, then I doubt he will cry for too long.

What I don't want to see, is him descending into a wasteful lifestyle of drinking and whatever every day like a lot do when they get here with a lump of cash. But neither do I want to see him get involved in something that could end up creating some big problems for him.

Been a great thread so far. I will email the link to him.

[klubex99]

To quote a post on another thread which I enjoyed reading.

A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him - David Brinkley.

However, my personal fave....

Success is not built on success. It's built on failure. It's built on frustration. Sometimes it's built on catastrophe.- Sumner Redstone.

'Success is built on knowing the right people in power'

R Abramovich.

[klubex99]

It all sounded plausible until you mentioned where he wanted to set up. I fancy those sites will be well and truly sewn up.

But elsewhere such a business can do very well from nothing here, especially with a smart Thai in tow.

That is an excellent point, and to be honest, I never thought of it that way.

That made me think of alternatives, which could be Big C and Makro entrances for example. Or anywhere there is a large footfall. Up here in Korat, there are stalls around these places. But not so many as to create competition of any volume.

Maybe that is a better option, and there is plenty of room for expansion if that is what he wants. Rather than go for the biggest market, go for lots of chunks of the smaller ones and make the money from pure volume.