The Thai-Baht And The Future Of Farangs In Thailand

[LawrenceChee]

The burden of producing for the world is indeed taxing and has come at a hefty price in recent years for china

Increasing the Chinese are tired of it and its beginning to show...local consumption will be the next big direction for china and with its grip in Asia and producing only for Asians...if they so choose to it would be interesting to see if the west can really restart their manufacturing base to feed and support themselves with their innovations

I don't believe it will happen as the innovations laid by the past generations is not supported by the latter generation who cannot take much hardship without giving up

Asians by DNA are better equipped to take the knocks in life and anyone living on Asia will know that even the poorest of parents here try their best to send their kids to schools and hope they will have a brighter future.

When I visited the colleges of locals schools in a few western countries I cannot see the same determination to learn or the hardworking aptitude or the ability to save $$$

The CCP has its annual meeting now and it will be interesting to see the developments and speech of the outgoing PM Wen Jia Bao

The numbers in any reported is almost always flawed as the population is huge so any averages will bring it down

I see aplenty of poor people @ the western first world countries and u cannot describe the countries as 3rd world just a country that is mismanaged.

[NeverSure]

I think that people who keep singing the praises of the economies of some Asian countries, especially Thailand forget the most important thing. Thailand is, with its new manufacturing, nothing more than a robot for the West. It can manufacture only what is developed in the West, using methods developed in the West. It needs products and innovation from the West to complete its cycle.

Even the Asian demand for its products is generated by money made by manufacturing things for other countries, which money can be traced to the West.

The West is, to this day, driving innovation and therefore demand. Where did Unix/Linux/ and now Android come from? Who is updating Linux and its variant Android? Who invents the devices to run it? Who is driving the internet? Who is driving computer innovation?

I walk through a market in Thailand, and almost every modern product I see has a Western or Japanese name on it. Even Japan has only mastered the art of parroting the West's products. It would be the first to go down without the West for a customer.

Who is making the BIG money from all of these innovations? Thailand? Phhhhhht.

[NeverSure]

The burden of producing for the world is indeed taxing and has come at a hefty price in recent years for china Increasing the Chinese are tired of it and its beginning to show...local consumption will be the next big direction for china and with its grip in Asia and producing only for Asians...if they so choose to it would be interesting to see if the west can really restart their manufacturing base to feed and support themselves with their innovations I don't believe it will happen as the innovations laid by the past generations is not supported by the latter generation who cannot take much hardship without giving up Asians by DNA are better equipped to take the knocks in life and anyone living on Asia will know that even the poorest of parents here try their best to send their kids to schools and hope they will have a brighter future. When I visited the colleges of locals schools in a few western countries I cannot see the same determination to learn or the hardworking aptitude or the ability to save $$$ The CCP has its annual meeting now and it will be interesting to see the developments and speech of the outgoing PM Wen Jia Bao The numbers in any reported is almost always flawed as the population is huge so any averages will bring it down I see aplenty of poor people @ the western first world countries and u cannot describe the countries as 3rd world just a country that is mismanaged.

China has a per capita income of only $US8,000 per year. They are used to selling into markets with 6 - 8 times that much income.

If they lose the customer base of the West from a failure of the West, their incomes will plummet and they will be even less able to self sustain.

The wealth pouring into Asia is and has been coming from the West. If the West fails, Asia goes down.

[LawrenceChee]

And why would anyone want to lose their customer base ?

China is learning the best of the west while keeping to its Asian culture and its success is hard to stomach granted for most who like to quote all sorts of innovation by the west etc ...u will never see a Chinese thread bashing it but they constantly ask me how do I make a product as good as the west but make $$$ out of it ? And stay profitable.

Only a few like apple and google are smart long term us companies that have decided to move their $$$ out to avoid paying more taxes into a systems that consumes its and has not much to show

China is teaching the west innovations too and that is how to make $$$, how to run a well oiled machine. Most business empires exist in the east for generations while the west with its western innovations is described at times as an " orgasm" or short term barfine...only as good as it lasted in that few months or years

So if you can put aside the western pride, you will find there is much to learn here as there is in the west

The universities here in china find it puzzling why a government that keeps running out of money is still in power; granted their own is corrupt but they fail to see why that is a better model of most western govts are running to the graves with their financial depths so they keep their minds open and see what is best balanced of both systems ?

The practicality mindset of the east has its merits.

As I talk to businessman there all the time, why would they give up on the west while their brothers catch up ?

After all it's the west that has a need to spend and consume and horde while the east prefer to save.

In the meantime the west can believe in whatever fantasy story that can keep yourself happy

Without the west consumers , the east will see a small brake to their economy, without the east producing it would be interesting to see how the west can produce enough at a price you an stomach

[inthepink]

+1 beautifulthailand99, I don't think people realize the juggernaut that's on it's way from China.

When I was in CM two weeks ago I saw restaurant staff members practising Chinese phrases and the boss told me he was getting a menu prepared in Mandarin. The Chinese were everywhere ( as they are entitled to be ) and there will be a vast increase in tourism from that country shortly, especially I predict in Chiang Mai.

I'm like a broken record on this subject, the Chinese are coming, they're looking for bargains, they're looking for investments, they're looking for relaxation, and most worryingly for a lot of Western guys, they're looking for Brides.

Many of them are awash with money and they'll go snapping up the best of the women in a heartbeat. The competition is getting a whole lot hotter, and there's a weird thing on play in Chinese society, Chinese men almost always marry down. They regard marrying a Thai woman as marrying down.

I was in CM with a very wealthy Chinese friend 3 years ago, the girls reaction to him was unbelievable, and there is a fellow TV member that witnessed it. I have never seen anything like it in Thailand before or since, and the truth is, he wasn't one bit impressed.

Thailand is a big country and there's space for many people, however the tide of Chinese investment and tourism will change the country in many ways. The proposed High Speed Rail Link will be the battering ram, and the proposed Chinese Business District in Bangkok will see a surge of Chinese immigration like you cannot believe, and trust me on this one......the Chinese will not stand for any nonsense. Just wait till you see the reaction of the Chinese Embassy when the scam reports start flooding in, and if the wrong Chinese guy get's scammed, the Thai government will take a collective whitey.

It should be obvious to anyone that the young Thais look to Japan and South Korea as their role models, add to that the buying power of China and once again you will see the fall of the importance of the West to Thailand.

ps. I know one young Thai lady who is now engaged to a Chinese guy, and on a related matter, it's easy for Thais to get visas for China.

I'm not disagreeing with your point but the number of Chinese visitors in Chiang Mai during Chinese New Year will obviously be considerably higher than at other times of the year so it is a little misleading to use it as an example.

[mania]

China has a per capita income of only $US8,000 per year. They are used to selling into markets with 6 - 8 times that much income.

If they lose the customer base of the West from a failure of the West, their incomes will plummet and they will be even less able to self sustain.

The wealth pouring into Asia is and has been coming from the West. If the West fails, Asia goes down.

For the most part I agree that it was the consumerism of the West that helped make the East rich.

But it was also the cost of doing business in the West & the stifling regulations that chased

the manufacturing sector to the East.

Now as you say with the slow down in consumerism forced upon the consumers in the West due to loss of income there may be less buying.

But I cannot help but notice a change in the East also. That being they are following in the footsteps of the West

in creating consumers within their own country.

Yes their income is less but so is their individual debt & they have savings. Yet that is changing because by following the Western model I

sure have notice folks in the East starting to make the same mistakes that was a large part of the reason for the fall in

the West. That being the availability of easy credit at high interest. Everywhere I go now I see displays aimed at Thai's

& I am sure it is probably the same in China of the old buy now pay later. The payment is small the term is long.

They like many of their Western consumer counterparts see only the monthly payment & think "I can do that" Yet they never look at the total

costs.

It really is "their" turn in more than one way.

Edited March 4, 2013 by mania

[NeverSure]

When the crybabies all go home like bleeting sheep it will make room for those that aren't on the dole. There might even be fewer whingers and whiners on tv.

That's a pile of crap. Most of the retired people who are "on the dole" paid into those funds all of their working lives. Most also have savings and investments.

It doesn't matter how much money one has, it's no fun watching a hard-earned pension or a savings account buy 1/2 of what it would five years ago due to currency exchange and inflation.

[LawrenceChee]

True mania ...

which is why there is an increasing slew of articles in china written by the respected community to ask for a stop in credit lending or the ease of getting it

Many are using Singapore as the best example of being a western "slave" and why it should be avoided. Rich in every sense asset wise and yet most professional Singaporean have very little cash savings for their retirements and worry all the time

The Chinese have not lost their virtue of saving money and that is a good step so hopefully they would learn by reviewing most of the west media articles and see it is not the best way forward ...a balanced manner is still best in growing at a comfortable pace

There are a lot of articles on the Americans who are in their 40s and still paying their study loans and have incurred credit loans, housing and renovation, holiday and all sort of loans to burden themselves further and the media interest in china is huge in the population not making the same mistakes

I pray that parents and grandparents in china and Asia remain strict with their kids and teach them the virtue of saving and spending within your means

[Naam]

I don't agree that it's that simple. China and India only rise to meet
the needs of the West. If demand falls in the West due an economic
failure of the West, China and India crash.

unlike China the Indian export share to the "west" is a mere 14% of the total.

[inthepink]

China has a per capita income of only $US8,000 per year. They are used to selling into markets with 6 - 8 times that much income.

If they lose the customer base of the West from a failure of the West, their incomes will plummet and they will be even less able to self sustain.

The wealth pouring into Asia is and has been coming from the West. If the West fails, Asia goes down.

For the most part I agree that it was the consumerism of the West that helped make the East rich.

But it was also the cost of doing business in the West & the stifling regulations that chased

the manufacturing sector to the East.

Now as you say with the slow down in consumerism forced upon the consumers in the West due to loss of income there may be less buying.

But I cannot help but notice a change in the East also. That being they are following in the footsteps of the West

in creating consumers within their own country.

Yes their income is less but so is their individual debt & they have savings. Yet that is changing because by following the Western model I

sure have notice folks in the East starting to make the same mistakes that was a large part of the reason for the fall in

the West. That being the availability of easy credit at high interest. Everywhere I go now I see displays aimed at Thai's

& I am sure it is probably the same in China of the old buy now pay later. The payment is small the term is long.

They like many of their Western consumer counterparts see only the monthly payment & think "I can do that" Yet they never look at the total

costs.

It really is "their" turn in more than one way.

Actually, maybe it isn't "their turn" as they are a little more sensible than us Westerners, as far as credit card debt is concerned anyway. Minimum payments here seem to be 10% of the outstanding amount rather than the slightly ridiculous 1 or 2% plus the interest charge that UK banks ask for. Also, Thai banks do not appear to throw extra credit at their customers in the same manner that UK banks are still doing.

Edited March 4, 2013 by inthepink

[Ystradyfodwg]

Lets hope my rubber trees come to fruition next year unless I'll be back in Good Old Blighty full time!

Are you planning to corner the condom market?

Your comment was almost funny but this is a serious discussion.

[Ystradyfodwg]

I think the general thread is that Thailand is far more expensive for the Brits today than it was five/six years ago.Thats why far more Brits are going to countries such as Cambodia as you get far more value there than Thailand.This is a discussion forum and people are entitled to their opinion.

Not so difficult to understand is it, when they get almost half the amount of Thai Baht for their Pound from what they got 5 years ago.

Oh by the way, I haven't followed the Cambodian exchange rates, but I guess overthere they get also almost half from what they might have received 5 years ago.

GBP high for past 5 years was 67 range but, last 3 years really never saw much over 50

Here is the Cambodian riel exchange rates for 5 years

Thanks for the information Mania.Unless actual graphs are shown its very easy for other contributors to talk without actual facts.It shows the the £ v Cambodian Riel has decreased far less these past 5 years than the £ has against the Thai Baht which proves my opening point that Thailand is far more expensive to visit than 5-6 years ago.Thanks again.

[inthepink]

I think the general thread is that Thailand is far more expensive for the Brits today than it was five/six years ago.Thats why far more Brits are going to countries such as Cambodia as you get far more value there than Thailand.This is a discussion forum and people are entitled to their opinion.

Not so difficult to understand is it, when they get almost half the amount of Thai Baht for their Pound from what they got 5 years ago.

Oh by the way, I haven't followed the Cambodian exchange rates, but I guess overthere they get also almost half from what they might have received 5 years ago.

GBP high for past 5 years was 67 range but, last 3 years really never saw much over 50

GBP THB.jpg

Here is the Cambodian riel exchange rates for 5 years

GBP KHR.jpg

Thanks for the information Mania.Unless actual graphs are shown its very easy for other contributors to talk without actual facts.It shows the the £ v Cambodian Riel has decreased far less these past 5 years than the £ has against the Thai Baht which proves my opening point that Thailand is far more expensive to visit than 5-6 years ago.Thanks again.

According to those graphs, the pound has gone from approx. 8 to 6 Cambodian Riels in the past 5 years and from approx. 60 to 45 baht during the same period. In both cases that is a drop of 25% so what you are saying is complete rubbish. Maths not your strong point?

Edited March 4, 2013 by inthepink

[NeverSure]

I don't agree that it's that simple. China and India only rise to meet

the needs of the West. If demand falls in the West due an economic

failure of the West, China and India crash.

unlike China the Indian export share to the "west" is a mere 14% of the total.

Thank you for making my point. India has less than 1/2 the per capita income of China.

[Denizen]

The burden of producing for the world is indeed taxing and has come at a hefty price in recent years for china Increasing the Chinese are tired of it and its beginning to show...local consumption will be the next big direction for china and with its grip in Asia and producing only for Asians...if they so choose to it would be interesting to see if the west can really restart their manufacturing base to feed and support themselves with their innovations I don't believe it will happen as the innovations laid by the past generations is not supported by the latter generation who cannot take much hardship without giving up Asians by DNA are better equipped to take the knocks in life and anyone living on Asia will know that even the poorest of parents here try their best to send their kids to schools and hope they will have a brighter future. When I visited the colleges of locals schools in a few western countries I cannot see the same determination to learn or the hardworking aptitude or the ability to save $$$ The CCP has its annual meeting now and it will be interesting to see the developments and speech of the outgoing PM Wen Jia Bao The numbers in any reported is almost always flawed as the population is huge so any averages will bring it down I see aplenty of poor people @ the western first world countries and u cannot describe the countries as 3rd world just a country that is mismanaged.

China has a per capita income of only $US8,000 per year. They are used to selling into markets with 6 - 8 times that much income.

If they lose the customer base of the West from a failure of the West, their incomes will plummet and they will be even less able to self sustain.

The wealth pouring into Asia is and has been coming from the West. If the West fails, Asia goes down.

Are you contending that UK does not buy Chinese goods?

Edited March 4, 2013 by Denizen

[MrWorldwide]

When the crybabies all go home like bleeting sheep it will make room for those that aren't on the dole. There might even be fewer whingers and whiners on tv.

That's a pile of crap. Most of the retired people who are "on the dole" paid into those funds all of their working lives. Most also have savings and investments.

It doesn't matter how much money one has, it's no fun watching a hard-earned pension or a savings account buy 1/2 of what it would five years ago due to currency exchange and inflation.

No argument from me, but I wonder how self-funded retirees are doing in the UK right now ? Here in Oz,. my sister and her husband have been retired for all of 3 years but she does little other than bleat about rising prices. Worked hard their whole lives to be able to fund their own retirement, and I swear that sometimes you could be forgiven for thinking you were listening to that deadbeat from the UK version of Shameless. If that's what retirement looks like, I'll just go straight to a bar on Soi 4 and start pissing it up against a wall.

[NeverSure]

The burden of producing for the world is indeed taxing and has come at a hefty price in recent years for china Increasing the Chinese are tired of it and its beginning to show...local consumption will be the next big direction for china and with its grip in Asia and producing only for Asians...if they so choose to it would be interesting to see if the west can really restart their manufacturing base to feed and support themselves with their innovations I don't believe it will happen as the innovations laid by the past generations is not supported by the latter generation who cannot take much hardship without giving up Asians by DNA are better equipped to take the knocks in life and anyone living on Asia will know that even the poorest of parents here try their best to send their kids to schools and hope they will have a brighter future. When I visited the colleges of locals schools in a few western countries I cannot see the same determination to learn or the hardworking aptitude or the ability to save $$$ The CCP has its annual meeting now and it will be interesting to see the developments and speech of the outgoing PM Wen Jia Bao The numbers in any reported is almost always flawed as the population is huge so any averages will bring it down I see aplenty of poor people @ the western first world countries and u cannot describe the countries as 3rd world just a country that is mismanaged.

China has a per capita income of only $US8,000 per year. They are used to selling into markets with 6 - 8 times that much income.

If they lose the customer base of the West from a failure of the West, their incomes will plummet and they will be even less able to self sustain.

The wealth pouring into Asia is and has been coming from the West. If the West fails, Asia goes down.

Are you contending that UK does not buy Chinese goods?

Oh no, of course not. Western Europe is certainly a big part of the Western world, as are the US, Canada, Australia... It is a term wrapped more around economics and developed nations than location. Link

[NeverSure]

When the crybabies all go home like bleeting sheep it will make room for those that aren't on the dole. There might even be fewer whingers and whiners on tv.

That's a pile of crap. Most of the retired people who are "on the dole" paid into those funds all of their working lives. Most also have savings and investments.

It doesn't matter how much money one has, it's no fun watching a hard-earned pension or a savings account buy 1/2 of what it would five years ago due to currency exchange and inflation.

No argument from me, but I wonder how self-funded retirees are doing in the UK right now ? Here in Oz,. my sister and her husband have been retired for all of 3 years but she does little other than bleat about rising prices. Worked hard their whole lives to be able to fund their own retirement, and I swear that sometimes you could be forgiven for thinking you were listening to that deadbeat from the UK version of Shameless. If that's what retirement looks like, I'll just go straight to a bar on Soi 4 and start pissing it up against a wall.

Many Westerners, having lived a life of consumerism and debt, are in for a rude awakening if they thought their government pension would be enough for retirement. I know people reaching retirement age who are still up to their eyeballs in car loans and credit card debt. I think shrinks call it denial.

One must also have some investments, and those investments must be at least an attempt at hedging against inflation. I just bought a duplex in the US because everyone knows that real estate prices in the US are in the dumper, but rent prices aren't. If anything, the hesitancy to buy a home has shored up rent prices and lowered vacancies. The duplex simply penciled to a good number for income. If it manages to provide some hedge against inflation, so much the better.

I couldn't live, even in the US in my paid-for home on my social security check. I'd have to head for a cheap rural area, buy a mobile home on a town lot, and hunker down. it wouldn't be easy. The US is cheap. Really cheap as Western countries go, so I don't know what people in other countries would do.

[StreetCowboy]

 

When the crybabies all go home like bleeting sheep it will make room for those that aren't on the dole. There might even be fewer whingers and whiners on tv.

That's a pile of crap. Most of the retired people who are "on the dole" paid into those funds all of their working lives. Most also have savings and investments.

It doesn't matter how much money one has, it's no fun watching a hard-earned pension or a savings account buy 1/2 of what it would five years ago due to currency exchange and inflation.

No argument from me, but I wonder how self-funded retirees are doing in the UK right now ? Here in Oz,. my sister and her husband have been retired for all of 3 years but she does little other than bleat about rising prices. Worked hard their whole lives to be able to fund their own retirement, and I swear that sometimes you could be forgiven for thinking you were listening to that deadbeat from the UK version of Shameless. If that's what retirement looks like, I'll just go straight to a bar on Soi 4 and start pissing it up against a wall.

 

Obviously didn't work all their lives if they've been retired three years. If they're struggling for cash, then perhaps they retired too early. It's a lot easier to work till your 65 or 66 than to go back to work when you're 70

EDIT: Or 80

Edited March 4, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[MrWorldwide]

SC, he is 68 and she is 66 - they both started work in their teens : to my way of thinking, that is 'their entire lives'. A major part of the problem is that my sister is just a complete worry wort - I'm convinced that she gets off on it - but she also sees people that she grew up with getting sick and wonders what that will do to their savings. It never ends, hence my comment. Retirement should be about something more than stressing about the future, IMO.

[somtampet]

My thoughts

Its not much fun seeing your hard earned gbp going down the pan irrelevent if thai baht or not.Many expats must be struggling compared to when the thai baht was 76 to the gbp,but its not that difficult to cut back on things for the short term,as many are doing in the uk.

Stocks and shares are doing well and my gf works so she is earning thai baht,get youre wives,gf out to work,stop em spending your money lol lol

[Denizen]

The burden of producing for the world is indeed taxing and has come at a hefty price in recent years for china Increasing the Chinese are tired of it and its beginning to show...local consumption will be the next big direction for china and with its grip in Asia and producing only for Asians...if they so choose to it would be interesting to see if the west can really restart their manufacturing base to feed and support themselves with their innovations I don't believe it will happen as the innovations laid by the past generations is not supported by the latter generation who cannot take much hardship without giving up Asians by DNA are better equipped to take the knocks in life and anyone living on Asia will know that even the poorest of parents here try their best to send their kids to schools and hope they will have a brighter future. When I visited the colleges of locals schools in a few western countries I cannot see the same determination to learn or the hardworking aptitude or the ability to save $$$ The CCP has its annual meeting now and it will be interesting to see the developments and speech of the outgoing PM Wen Jia Bao The numbers in any reported is almost always flawed as the population is huge so any averages will bring it down I see aplenty of poor people @ the western first world countries and u cannot describe the countries as 3rd world just a country that is mismanaged.

China has a per capita income of only $US8,000 per year. They are used to selling into markets with 6 - 8 times that much income.

If they lose the customer base of the West from a failure of the West, their incomes will plummet and they will be even less able to self sustain.

The wealth pouring into Asia is and has been coming from the West. If the West fails, Asia goes down.

Are you contending that UK does not buy Chinese goods?

Oh no, of course not. Western Europe is certainly a big part of the Western world, as are the US, Canada, Australia... It is a term wrapped more around economics and developed nations than location. Link

Median income in the UK does not appear to qualify for the $48,000 -$64,000 range you mentioned.

[maturebrit]

I think the general thread is that Thailand is far more expensive for the Brits today than it was five/six years ago.Thats why far more Brits are going to countries such as Cambodia as you get far more value there than Thailand.This is a discussion forum and people are entitled to their opinion.

Not so difficult to understand is it, when they get almost half the amount of Thai Baht for their Pound from what they got 5 years ago.

Oh by the way, I haven't followed the Cambodian exchange rates, but I guess overthere they get also almost half from what they might have received 5 years ago.

GBP high for past 5 years was 67 range but, last 3 years really never saw much over 50

Here is the Cambodian riel exchange rates for 5 years

Thanks for the information Mania.Unless actual graphs are shown its very easy for other contributors to talk without actual facts.It shows the the £ v Cambodian Riel has decreased far less these past 5 years than the £ has against the Thai Baht which proves my opening point that Thailand is far more expensive to visit than 5-6 years ago.Thanks again.

44.28 to the £ today...... bye bye Thailand. ... great exchange rate for buying pounds and invest in Indonesia

[jarhead50200]

wow i gotta tell ya, whoever started this thread should be given a raise or shot, it is amazing

[Ystradyfodwg]

I think the general thread is that Thailand is far more expensive for the Brits today than it was five/six years ago.Thats why far more Brits are going to countries such as Cambodia as you get far more value there than Thailand.This is a discussion forum and people are entitled to their opinion.

Not so difficult to understand is it, when they get almost half the amount of Thai Baht for their Pound from what they got 5 years ago.

Oh by the way, I haven't followed the Cambodian exchange rates, but I guess overthere they get also almost half from what they might have received 5 years ago.

GBP high for past 5 years was 67 range but, last 3 years really never saw much over 50GBP THB.jpg

Here is the Cambodian riel exchange rates for 5 yearsGBP KHR.jpg

Thanks for the information Mania.Unless actual graphs are shown its very easy for other contributors to talk without actual facts.It shows the the £ v Cambodian Riel has decreased far less these past 5 years than the £ has against the Thai Baht which proves my opening point that Thailand is far more expensive to visit than 5-6 years ago.Thanks again.

According to those graphs, the pound has gone from approx. 8 to 6 Cambodian Riels in the past 5 years and from approx. 60 to 45 baht during the same period. In both cases that is a drop of 25% so what you are saying is complete rubbish. Maths not your strong point?

Over BT70 to the £ in 2007-less than 45 today makes it more like 35% in my calculations.

[Denizen]

wow i gotta tell ya, whoever started this thread should be given a raise or shot, it is amazing

Might have to be posthumous raise. May have already jumped off balcony.

I am not sure of the procedure for a posthumous execution. May require a prior resurrection.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Denizen

[HardenedSoul]

Enough whinging.

If people can't afford to stay here with the pound in its current condition, they should either find a way to earn money in local readies or GO.

The financial woes of a handful of expats on fixed incomes being squeezed by exchange rates are somewhere near the bottom of the list of priorities for he Bank of England and the British government.

[chiangmaikelly]

I think that people who keep singing the praises of the economies of some Asian countries, especially Thailand forget the most important thing. Thailand is, with its new manufacturing, nothing more than a robot for the West. It can manufacture only what is developed in the West, using methods developed in the West. It needs products and innovation from the West to complete its cycle.

Even the Asian demand for its products is generated by money made by manufacturing things for other countries, which money can be traced to the West.

The West is, to this day, driving innovation and therefore demand. Where did Unix/Linux/ and now Android come from? Who is updating Linux and its variant Android? Who invents the devices to run it? Who is driving the internet? Who is driving computer innovation?

I walk through a market in Thailand, and almost every modern product I see has a Western or Japanese name on it. Even Japan has only mastered the art of parroting the West's products. It would be the first to go down without the West for a customer.

Who is making the BIG money from all of these innovations? Thailand? Phhhhhht.

It is not the robot factories. You'll got know that Ford does not ship sheet metal screws and washers and plastic fasteners from the USA. It is Somchai who makes sheet metal screws that the robot factory buys. Then Somchai has a factory and employees and he hires a saleslady who goes out and sells screws to Thai people. And as a result of her selling screws Somchai buys another factory and employs more people who eat in Rayong at Sombat's restaurant every day and Sombat hires another waitress and....... See I grew up in Detroit. I am going to die in the Detroit of Asia. You want to make some cash? Open up a machine tool factory in Rayong. I been there before.

[NeverSure]

I think that people who keep singing the praises of the economies of some Asian countries, especially Thailand forget the most important thing. Thailand is, with its new manufacturing, nothing more than a robot for the West. It can manufacture only what is developed in the West, using methods developed in the West. It needs products and innovation from the West to complete its cycle.

Even the Asian demand for its products is generated by money made by manufacturing things for other countries, which money can be traced to the West.

The West is, to this day, driving innovation and therefore demand. Where did Unix/Linux/ and now Android come from? Who is updating Linux and its variant Android? Who invents the devices to run it? Who is driving the internet? Who is driving computer innovation?

I walk through a market in Thailand, and almost every modern product I see has a Western or Japanese name on it. Even Japan has only mastered the art of parroting the West's products. It would be the first to go down without the West for a customer.

Who is making the BIG money from all of these innovations? Thailand? Phhhhhht.

It is not the robot factories. You'll got know that Ford does not ship sheet metal screws and washers and plastic fasteners from the USA. It is Somchai who makes sheet metal screws that the robot factory buys. Then Somchai has a factory and employees and he hires a saleslady who goes out and sells screws to Thai people. And as a result of her selling screws Somchai buys another factory and employs more people who eat in Rayong at Sombat's restaurant every day and Sombat hires another waitress and....... See I grew up in Detroit. I am going to die in the Detroit of Asia. You want to make some cash? Open up a machine tool factory in Rayong. I been there before.

You missed my point.

No one in Thailand has ever invented a machine screw, or a machine to make one, or even a use for one. All of the technology that is being used in Thailand was developed in the West. As new technology is invented in the West, it is moved to Asia.

The people who are making the big money on these things are the creators, and the investors who bring it to Asia.

Let me remind you that in Detroit's heyday, wages were good enough that only one adult needed to work. The stay-at-home mother was the common thing. Thais are not seeing that kind of prosperity because the real money doesn't belong to Thailand. It is foreign investment.

You point is well taken about starting a support business for auto manufacturing. It's a good idea. But that would be more foreign investment using foreign technology and foreign business sense and the big bucks if any would go to the foreigner.

At some point it might do to consider that Thais are not innovators. They aren't even good copiers like the Chinese are. They are followers, and not real fast even at that. Most of Thai investment is foreign investment with foreign ideas and foreign technology.

That didn't happen in the West where the innovation happened as needed and is still happening. Just about everything a Thai rides in or on, or holds in his hand, or wears, or uses to communicate is current Western technology. Thais aren't even copycats. They are followers.

[LawrenceChee]

Neversure

I think by now everyone can see you are trying to make the point that the west is the supreme innovator of the century and that Thailand is not and cannot be credited for a single item

Everything that is good in Asia was bestowed upon them thanks to the western gods generosity of sharing their technology

You have to now consider a different view

- innovations come in many form and not just technology. Asians have brought great innovations in the different food & cuisines we enjoy today and enhancing our medical well being through alternative treatments ;

the service business / hospitality business will not look the same if the west innovated every service standard. The Asian brought refinement, genuine care and smiles that warm the hearts when you step into a hotel or restaurant.

- Asians are not interested in being credited for every innovation. They have innovated things in their days and they are fine if the world uses them or if they use other cultures innovations to further their wealth and success

- Asians have attributes the west can learn from such as humility, ability to work hard and save. China has $300 trillion in reserves and even Thailand is richer in terms of $$$ than most western governments currently in debt

- In most of the examples you raised its not a foreigner investor that is rich. It's the local Asian businesses.

Using Thailand as an example, I hope Mr CP will not read your post and deny you access to his empire of 7-11, using his Internet service and buying his products under the CP brand or using his agro feed business that probably brought you the fish vegetables and neat your wife is using. If u are only buying imported stuff from Rimping I guess you are still safe. After all the Asians have been selectively eating horse meat and its suppose to be leaner and tastier

Of maybe Mr CPN may not welcome you anymore in his hotels and his shopping malls ?

Every Asian city has their own rich families that have benefited from the growth and they are very low profile and rightly so seeing that most have their roots from china and they know the art of making the biggest deals in the world is to stay in the background.

Maybe you like to read up on what Li Ka Shing , Pansy Ho, Salim Brothers.

After all the richest man in Asia Li Ka Shing built his empire selling fake flowers and still seiko watches.

I don't believe most of his current wealth has anything to do with western innovations, more a combination of guts, entrepreunship, vision and ability to stare risks in its eyes and not bat.