Thai Pride Or My Ignorance?

[Tywais]

I agree , Forget about it , maybe learn something and move on .

Now what do you want to talk about ?

I DID learn something!

I'm not starting any more threads!

That's the spirit.

[zzap]

<snip> I just thought that it was odd that nobody in the (small) group choose to say thanks. Therefore, I thought that it might have been a common occurance.

I have noticed in Bankok, it doesn't happen that much, but when you get upcountry, it happens alot more.

I find it annoying, its just one of those quirky things.

I at first found it annoying, too, when yet another friend of a friend joined and proceed to gossip in their local language, which I didn't understand - on my bar chit.

On the other hand, I can't count the many times I have been pulled in to join and noone expected me to contribute a single Bt, and my money was refused because someone else 'took care'.

[phibunmike]

<snip> I just thought that it was odd that nobody in the (small) group choose to say thanks. Therefore, I thought that it might have been a common occurance.

I have noticed in Bankok, it doesn't happen that much, but when you get upcountry, it happens alot more.

I find it annoying, its just one of those quirky things.

The ultimate paradox for me is I must be polite and respectful to my wife's parents, even though they are younger than me. I am told this is because I am married to her, and she is their daughter. Ok, a fair point of view, but when it comes to dinner, no, I am expected to pay as I am the oldest, thank you is not heard of.

Hear, hear - you and Misplaced have got it right. Oldest / most senior / richest pays - nobody says thankyou. Normal. Except now my wife has explained to her parents, and they say "thank you" (in English, the only phrase they know), which I think is a very touching recognition of the fact that farangs having different ways and their respect or fondness for me.

[monochaser]

of course the farang shells, what would anyone expect? He's far richer than the thai so he's expected to pay. a thai reaching into his wallet to contribute? LOL

[Jeff1]

I agree , Forget about it , maybe learn something and move on .

Now what do you want to talk about ?

I DID learn something!

I'm not starting any more threads!

See , ya learned something .

[ray23]

I agree , Forget about it , maybe learn something and move on .

Now what do you want to talk about ?

I DID learn something!

I'm not starting any more threads!

See , ya learned something .

Well back to the original quetion no I don't think it is the norm for Thai to ay thank you, usually a warm smile or a simple Wai says the same thing. I have lived up country fro three years, when I invite someone to a birthday party farrang or Thai I expect to pay I have nevre heard a Thai say thankyo but a courteous at the end of e evening is never missed. On the other hand I have been to many Thai parties and never paid for a thing, I have said thank you in Thai, A Wia would have done the samething.

I have ridden with a group of Thia for about two years now, I have paid anythign except my fair share. On the other hand you sit expensive whickey on the table they are going to drink it and never say a thing, but that is the same for Thais as farrnags. HAven't you noticed Thai's eating from the same plates, that is the way it is here, it's sharing and no one expects acknowledgement for it.

I can alway pot the new guy in town wiht his bar lady and the extended family, in the most expensive place in town. It's fun to watch the old timers they are so uncomforatble, eating at a table instead of on the mat. In those your cases your girl friend is letting the village know that she has been successful and yes you are expected to pay.

On the same token go back to the village and what ever is on the table your welcome to just like anyone else.

It's amazing you go out in the villages and top and start chattin with people, they will offer you thier food or beer whatever they have with no intention of ever being paid. There are mnay sides to Thailnad, I think you got wrapped up in a deal where the girl was trying to have a good face in front of her friends, in the only way she knew how.

Heck man I have spent 2.5 mil. on the car and house for my wife I never heard thank you, but she appreciated what she got, even lets me drive the truck sometimes

By the way my Ex wife was from the P.I. it was exactly the same there.

[TokyoT]

I was actually thinking of starting a thread related to this topic (the farang always paying, and the lack of thanks/ thank you). Every time the wife tells me we are having another family dinner I flash back to the “Friends” (Once the most popular sitcom on US TV) episode where Joey, Phoebe, and Rachel complain because when they all go out the bill is split six ways. In that the bill payment does not seem to be appropriate to the situation at hand.

Some background to explain why they complain: Joey, Phoebe, and Rachel all had lower income levels than the other three (Ross, Monica, and Chandler). And even when they ordered cheaper items they still were expected to pay 1/6 of the bill each.

Similar for me (only I generally end up paying the entire bill occasionally ½ the bill if my sister-in-laws BF happens to attend) during the family dinners. Situation exasperated the fact that I like pretty basic Thai food (which tends to be pretty cheap), and the rest of the family takes advantage of the fact that I will pick up the bill and order lobster, crab, and just about anything else on the menu that is expensive.

So the farang is stuck with the bill – they not only choose the restaurant, but order food that they would never order if they had to pay for it. Top it off with no thanks and then asking for taxi money (I take the BTS or walk). Add to this the fact that having the dinner out was in no way shape or form my idea and things just don’t seem to add up.

A lot of mention on here about the oldest or wealthiest pays the bill. I am certainly the wealthiest but by no stretch the oldest (actually closer to the youngest than I am to being the oldest). So should I give the oldest at the table the money so they can pay the bill?

[OZONE]

I was actually thinking of starting a thread related to this topic (the farang always paying, and the lack of thanks/ thank you). Every time the wife tells me we are having another family dinner I flash back to the “Friends” (Once the most popular sitcom on US TV) episode where Joey, Phoebe, and Rachel complain because when they all go out the bill is split six ways. In that the bill payment does not seem to be appropriate to the situation at hand.

Some background to explain why they complain: Joey, Phoebe, and Rachel all had lower income levels than the other three (Ross, Monica, and Chandler). And even when they ordered cheaper items they still were expected to pay 1/6 of the bill each.

Similar for me (only I generally end up paying the entire bill occasionally ½ the bill if my sister-in-laws BF happens to attend) during the family dinners. Situation exasperated the fact that I like pretty basic Thai food (which tends to be pretty cheap), and the rest of the family takes advantage of the fact that I will pick up the bill and order lobster, crab, and just about anything else on the menu that is expensive.

So the farang is stuck with the bill – they not only choose the restaurant, but order food that they would never order if they had to pay for it. Top it off with no thanks and then asking for taxi money (I take the BTS or walk). Add to this the fact that having the dinner out was in no way shape or form my idea and things just don’t seem to add up.

A lot of mention on here about the oldest or wealthiest pays the bill. I am certainly the wealthiest but by no stretch the oldest (actually closer to the youngest than I am to being the oldest). So should I give the oldest at the table the money so they can pay the bill?

Sounds to me like you're married to a Taiwannese women and not T-H-A-I-L-A-N-D...-or-... may be its just another soap-opera you were watching and got confused with reality?

[TokyoT]

Sounds to me like you're married to a Taiwannese women and not T-H-A-I-L-A-N-D...-or-... may be its just another soap-opera you were watching and got confused with reality?

Quite certain the wife is Thai (otherwise the Thai embassy made a big mistake when they issued my O type visa based upon our marriage) – though quite of few of my less than well traveled family do seem to have a problem distinguishing between Thailand and Taiwan.

[Totster]

Right... lets recap...

You met a girl in a bar, you stay with her for a certain amount of time. Everytime you go out, she invites all her friends, and you end up paying the bill... nobody says thanks and you get no carnal pleasure from the "GF" !

I think that was somebody else telling you that you are a fool.

Maybe you are a troll... or maybe not.. but one thing is for certain, you have managed to prove which one of us is the fool !

totster

[Heng]

Just my 2 cents from our typically all-Thai dinner tables, we do say thank you (sometimes just a wai) to the elder who is paying. When it's a situation of hierarchy among younger/older within the same generation (everyone is just a few years apart), no thanks is the norm, even though the norm is still for the oldest (regardless as to who is most 'well to do') to pay.

When foreign friends are visiting from abroad, they aren't expected to pay anything, not because they are foreign, but simply because they are guests.

Local foreign friends are typically only invited to house parties (usually birthday parties) and weddings as opposed to dinners at restaurants or clubs (which are usually business related or within a social group which the foreigner is not a member of), so there isn't a payment issue involved at all.

[monochaser]

I was actually thinking of starting a thread related to this topic (the farang always paying, and the lack of thanks/ thank you). Every time the wife tells me we are having another family dinner I flash back to the “Friends” (Once the most popular sitcom on US TV) episode where Joey, Phoebe, and Rachel complain because when they all go out the bill is split six ways. In that the bill payment does not seem to be appropriate to the situation at hand.

Some background to explain why they complain: Joey, Phoebe, and Rachel all had lower income levels than the other three (Ross, Monica, and Chandler). And even when they ordered cheaper items they still were expected to pay 1/6 of the bill each.

Similar for me (only I generally end up paying the entire bill occasionally ½ the bill if my sister-in-laws BF happens to attend) during the family dinners. Situation exasperated the fact that I like pretty basic Thai food (which tends to be pretty cheap), and the rest of the family takes advantage of the fact that I will pick up the bill and order lobster, crab, and just about anything else on the menu that is expensive.

So the farang is stuck with the bill – they not only choose the restaurant, but order food that they would never order if they had to pay for it. Top it off with no thanks and then asking for taxi money (I take the BTS or walk). Add to this the fact that having the dinner out was in no way shape or form my idea and things just don’t seem to add up.

A lot of mention on here about the oldest or wealthiest pays the bill. I am certainly the wealthiest but by no stretch the oldest (actually closer to the youngest than I am to being the oldest). So should I give the oldest at the table the money so they can pay the bill?

Sounds to me like you're married to a Taiwannese women and not T-H-A-I-L-A-N-D...-or-... may be its just another soap-opera you were watching and got confused with reality?

Yes Tokyo, your story sounds oh too typical. If your wife were Taiwanese then no doubt it would be different. Where does this poster get off questioning a legit story as you have conveyed. Cheers pal

[TRIPxCORE]

Anyhow, This really is the Thai ways. The host or the most successful generally takes care of the younger less fortunate. They need-not say Thank you because its implied. All this HOGWASH about "no repect" is just that, HOGWASH. People need to spend more time understanding the thai culture rather than worrying so much about "how they're being used as a walking ATM".

I'm afraid you are wrong about this. It is not normal for Thai people to not say thank you or not be appreciative. If that truly were the "Thai Way" then kop khun maa khap would not even exist in the Thai lexicon would it?

When in Thailand, my wife and I usually have dinner with a female friend of ours. She is a very successful business woman that owns her own construction supply company. She makes a lot of money. When we go out to eat together, half the time she pays and half the time I pay. She is the older and wealthier person but I still pay half the time. When I do pay, she says thank you to us over and over as I do to her when she pays.

To the OP, I asked my wife about what you said. She said the only way Thai people will not say thank you is if they consider you a part of the family. If they think of you this way, everything is just supposed to be known by all involved. Whether or not these people thought of you this way we cannot know. If they didnt think of you as family, then they just didn't give a toss about you.

Edited March 7, 2006 by TRIPxCORE

[ray23]

Triple X when I think about the circumstances of my exposure to the motorcylce group and the sharing I saw there, we were all very close friends and more then liley like an extnded family. That could very well why people didn't say specifically Thank you. We all knew that the things we did for eachother were appreciated, it simply did no need to be spoken.

To the original poster as to whether you slept with the girl or not that's up to you man. Whatever the relationship you obviously derived something that you needed from it, or you would not have continued with it. We all have to walk our own roads in life, not taking the steps that others might, does not make you a fool.

[samran]

It's something that I have never understood in Thailand. Take a group of Thai family members or friends out to dinner and never get a "thank you" at the end of the evening.

At least you get a "Chok dee" and a smile with every drink that you buy for them but that's about as far as it goes.

Maybe they think that the value of their company is well worth your expense of buying them dinner.

I've celebrated some of my birthdays in Thailand. A large group of Thai seem to materialise out of thin air. Some bring you a bunch of flowers or something similar, and then hog in to what ever is on offer in the way of food and booze.

At the end of the night everyone is drunk and you're left holding the bill. Happy bloody birthday.

Same in England. If it is your birthday, you are buying the drinks laddie.

Seriously though, I often wonder who you blokes hang out with. I have family from Issarn to BKK, rich and poor. Thanks and respect are always shown to the host at the end of the night, no matter who.

[Mighty Mouse]

Same in England. If it is your birthday, you are buying the drinks laddie.

Visit Down Under for your next birthday and you'll find that Aussies will always 'shout' you a beer to help celebrate your day. They might even pass the hat around to buy you a birthday cake........

.........and then they'll bag the crap out of you for being a Pom.

[Misplaced]

Anyhow, This really is the Thai ways. The host or the most successful generally takes care of the younger less fortunate. They need-not say Thank you because its implied. All this HOGWASH about "no repect" is just that, HOGWASH. People need to spend more time understanding the thai culture rather than worrying so much about "how they're being used as a walking ATM".

I'm afraid you are wrong about this. It is not normal for Thai people to not say thank you or not be appreciative. If that truly were the "Thai Way" then kop khun maa khap would not even exist in the Thai lexicon would it?

When in Thailand, my wife and I usually have dinner with a female friend of ours. She is a very successful business woman that owns her own construction supply company. She makes a lot of money. When we go out to eat together, half the time she pays and half the time I pay. She is the older and wealthier person but I still pay half the time. When I do pay, she says thank you to us over and over as I do to her when she pays.

To the OP, I asked my wife about what you said. She said the only way Thai people will not say thank you is if they consider you a part of the family. If they think of you this way, everything is just supposed to be known by all involved. Whether or not these people thought of you this way we cannot know. If they didnt think of you as family, then they just didn't give a toss about you.

What you and Heng says is right on! What I meant (but not conveyed properly) is the method used to say thank you. The simple notting of the head (typically from ppl your own age), a simple waii (from younger members) are generally understood as thank you.

I'm a bit perplexed however, the statement you made while interpreting my statement "It is not normal for Thai people to not say thank you or not be appreciative". I didn't say that nor implied that. So where did you get the info?

Heng, I must disagree with the comment "even though the norm is still for the oldest (regardless as to who is most 'well to do') to pay". If you are the eldest and least successful I'm sure he/she would not be expected to pay, so than typically, the well to do, would than be responsible.....Well, atleast thats been my experience anyway .

[phibunmike]

Same in England. If it is your birthday, you are buying the drinks laddie.

I'm English, but this is not my experience at all - everyone buys you drinks on your birthday. Well, that's how it was when I was there...

[Heng]

Heng, I must disagree with the comment "even though the norm is still for the oldest (regardless as to who is most 'well to do') to pay". If you are the eldest and least successful I'm sure he/she would not be expected to pay, so than typically, the well to do, would than be responsible.....Well, atleast thats been my experience anyway .

Well, I'm not saying it's a water tight rule with no exceptions, just from my experience -where typically the financial status of most at a dinner table are comparable anyway-. So even though older uncle Sombat (Peng) is only worth 100 million a year, but younger more successful uncle Somsak (Teng) is worth 200 million a year, according to tradition as we've always known it, older uncle Peng is still going to pay the check.

Of course, like all things in society, any kind of situation can arise. So, if there is an elder at the table with youngsters also present who are more well to do than the elder (and for whatever reason the better to do youngster will be paying in this instance), the polite thing to do is for the youngster who will be paying to leave the table and settle the check away from the table, not to wait until the check comes and then pay it right there at the table (possibly creating a situation where you might have to grab the check handed to the poor old guy/gal in front of everyone else). Or even then there might not be any reason to actually leave the table... grandpa and grandma might be at the table and their eldest might say something like, "okay this is on grandpa, right?" And then the eldest would go ahead and pay even though he wasn't the eldest at the table. Or grandma or grandpa might say something like... "I can't pay, I don't even remember what color each denomination is anymore, junior please take care of it.... they keep changing the bank notes SO often."

Then some reason might be given like... "you're in my town, I'm paying... or, I still owe you from taking care of us when we visited last year.... I still owe you from raising me so well," etc.

Or even when it's a group of youngsters where one is better off than the rest, sometimes the eldest of the group might only be "expected" to buy one round.... say in a club/bar situation, and the better to do individuals would switch off paying for every 2-3 rounds.

Anyhoo, it's not like it's programmed (almost though) 100% or anything. We're not robots.

[Misplaced]

I got your drift!.....geeeeeze and all that because of the word " Heng, I must disagree with you".

and I do "agree" with almost being programmed

[Heng]