Thai Fight : King Of Muay. Foreigners Lack Of Wins.

[jambco984]

Whats the crack with these events.

I have watched a lot of them and have never seen a foreigner win. There are 2 more fights tonight I hope I stand corrected.

I know its the Thai sport and they are brilliant at it, just some of these fights to me at least look like the foreigner should have won and the verdict is given to the Thai.

Any thoughts?

While I was typing the big guy from Portugal just got KO'd. No dispute there then.

1 more fight ......

Edited February 23, 2013 by jambco984

[jambco984]

Thais far superior today. Basically laughing at the opponents.

Ooh more fights... Nice. Chance to redeem

Edited February 23, 2013 by jambco984

[Bob12345]

Part of the scoring is subjective (its not just hitting someone, but also judging the impact,technique, style, etc).

Combine that with the fact that the whole jury is Thai and you know why foreigners can only have a sure win with a KO.

[transam]

Don't follow the sport but am l wrong in thinking this Thai sport doesn't do so well for Thais in the world arena. ?.

[nickmuay]

Thai fight is becoming notorious for poor matching of opponents, I have stopped watching on this basis, channel 7 has far more entertaining matches!

[jambco984]

Part of the scoring is subjective (its not just hitting someone, but also judging the impact,technique, style, etc).

Combine that with the fact that the whole jury is Thai and you know why foreigners can only have a sure win with a KO.

I get the scoring but they take the mick. The Thais get a ruffed up and hot under the collar and the ref is in as fast as possible to seperate the action giving time to recover.

As you say unless its a KO then no chance of a win. On Thai TV, in Thailand and as you say judges and ref are all Thai not one sided at all.

[jambco984]

Don't follow the sport but am l wrong in thinking this Thai sport doesn't do so well for Thais in the world arena. ?.

I also am no expert but enjoy the fights very much. Your right outside of Thailand im sure with a very few exceptions its 'whose that' when announced if they fight abroad.

When I watch UFC and other such sports if one of the fighters disciplines is Muay Thai he usually has another bad ass discipline to bump his skills through the roof you never see a guy with only this as his defence in the cage.

[jambco984]

Thai fight is becoming notorious for poor matching of opponents, I have stopped watching on this basis, channel 7 has far more entertaining matches!

Your right its got to the stage where I am thinking of not bothering next time its on and getting my head down. All the fights last night as you say where very poorly matched except the final fight.

The guy from Brazil in the final fight owned the Thai guy but the Thai showboated after taking some good hits to make him look strong while eyes told a different story.

Even the compare Khun Matthew a half Thai half foreigner was shocked with the result given.

Oh well. All hail Thailand.

[srn89]

I watched the fight's, observation firstly, although the fighters were of similar weight did anyone notice the differential in the experiences of the fighters, Thai 250 previous bouts, Farang 25, really equally matched !! hence the Thai fighters won so many mathches, if i recall correctly the fist fight was definitely the Farang as the winner, even my (Thai ) wife thought the result was as a result of the Judges being Thai.

[steveromagnino]

mostly, the Thais deserve to win in the Thai fights; you are talking about some of the cream of Thai Muay Thai fighters taking on foreigners many of whom have fought far fewer times. There are some dam_n good foreign fighters mind.

If you do not understand the rules, then you will not understand the scoring. If you do not understand how clinching works in Thailand, then you would totally not understand how a Thai fighter can ensure the clinch is broken up repeatedly, whereas the foreigner seems unable to achieve the same thing (clinching for me is the only point of major difference between Thai and foreign fighters, but it is a very tricky thing to master). Boxing is the same; masters of the clinch like Floyd, RJJ in his prime, Hopkins can dominate guys who are good but not great in controlling the clinch - the classic example of this would be Shane Mosley/Mayweather, where Mayweather's clinching ability was how he wore Mosley down completely and utterly.

Like the Pernell Whitaker/Floyd Mayweather effect (where people even judges don't understand that these guys are simply not getting hit and cannot understand why these scientific fighters deserve to win). Thai judges weight the various actions a little differently, certainly clinches and throws seem valued here more than in the west.

In other promotions, very common for Thai fighters to go in fighting opponents with greater weights etc simply because otherwise you end up with onesided contests or no matches like Thai fights, which I am guessing the foreign audience would not enjoy so much. Being that Thai Fights held locally are supported by Singha and mostly held with a pro Thai audience, up here the fights can keep happening even when the matches are a bit 'tilted' in terms of experience.

In K1 Maxx the Japanese organisers had to manipulate the rules substantially to avoid Buakow totally dominating the fights (if it had allowed elbows and repeated clinching there would have been only a few fighters able to hang with him). Most of the international fights against Thais in the weights that the top Thais fight at (ie. anything below middle weight) there are only a few foreigners who are capable of holding their own, and I have total respect for them in trying their best against the world's best. By introducing catch weights, and so on, then matches can go ahead with a more level playing field, but still is a big mountain to climb. There are some really good Dutch, Aussie, British and other nationality fighters in weights from middle to heavyweight, but then they aren't really fighting against Thais for the most part as there are almost no Thais that size.

Watching Thai fights for me is a bit like watching an entire fight card of mismatches, but for some fight fans they just want to see easy wins with clear cut winners. The strutting and the showmanship is totally the sort of thing that works for TV....but distracts from the sport, give me Lumpini Petchyindee promotions anyday.

Edited September 30, 2013 by steveromagnino

[falkan]

bad matchups i say..looks like a freakshow

[DGIE]

In 10 fights, foreigners vs Thai, I go to 0-10 score.

It's hard to beat them. They seems to have a steel body as if kicking them in any parts of their body is nothing to them.

Till now, I am thinking where to hit them and hurt them.

[DGIE]

I have to train more to have my kick like thunder so that I can beat thai boxers

[dao16]

mostly, the Thais deserve to win in the Thai fights; you are talking about some of the cream of Thai Muay Thai fighters taking on foreigners many of whom have fought far fewer times. There are some dam_n good foreign fighters mind.

If you do not understand the rules, then you will not understand the scoring. If you do not understand how clinching works in Thailand, then you would totally not understand how a Thai fighter can ensure the clinch is broken up repeatedly, whereas the foreigner seems unable to achieve the same thing (clinching for me is the only point of major difference between Thai and foreign fighters, but it is a very tricky thing to master). Boxing is the same; masters of the clinch like Floyd, RJJ in his prime, Hopkins can dominate guys who are good but not great in controlling the clinch - the classic example of this would be Shane Mosley/Mayweather, where Mayweather's clinching ability was how he wore Mosley down completely and utterly.

Like the Pernell Whitaker/Floyd Mayweather effect (where people even judges don't understand that these guys are simply not getting hit and cannot understand why these scientific fighters deserve to win). Thai judges weight the various actions a little differently, certainly clinches and throws seem valued here more than in the west.

In other promotions, very common for Thai fighters to go in fighting opponents with greater weights etc simply because otherwise you end up with onesided contests or no matches like Thai fights, which I am guessing the foreign audience would not enjoy so much. Being that Thai Fights held locally are supported by Singha and mostly held with a pro Thai audience, up here the fights can keep happening even when the matches are a bit 'tilted' in terms of experience.

In K1 Maxx the Japanese organisers had to manipulate the rules substantially to avoid Buakow totally dominating the fights (if it had allowed elbows and repeated clinching there would have been only a few fighters able to hang with him). Most of the international fights against Thais in the weights that the top Thais fight at (ie. anything below middle weight) there are only a few foreigners who are capable of holding their own, and I have total respect for them in trying their best against the world's best. By introducing catch weights, and so on, then matches can go ahead with a more level playing field, but still is a big mountain to climb. There are some really good Dutch, Aussie, British and other nationality fighters in weights from middle to heavyweight, but then they aren't really fighting against Thais for the most part as there are almost no Thais that size.

Watching Thai fights for me is a bit like watching an entire fight card of mismatches, but for some fight fans they just want to see easy wins with clear cut winners. The strutting and the showmanship is totally the sort of thing that works for TV....but distracts from the sport, give me Lumpini Petchyindee promotions anyday.

I used to see foreigners compete in Chiang Mai (not show fights...real ones) and they did ok, although it was generally understood that they needed a KO to win. I was told as much by foreigners and Thais alike (I was writing an article for a website, so I talked to lots of people).

One thing I do notice when I watch the big promotions from Pattaya (you know the big showy one....don't know how they are branding it), the Thais tend to be much more technical. 30 seconds into the fight you can tell that the foreigner doesn't know how to clinch properly, which stops him from throwing knees and elbows effectively. So, while he might land some hard shots, overall, he just isn't proficient at the sport.

A few months ago I caught one of the Pattaya fights on television and watched it with some Thais. It was a Thai guy against a guy from Russia or a Baltic country or something like that. Literally less than a minute in I said the thai guy would win. It was that obvious (main event!). Even the Thais were asking me how I was so sure since the guy was ripped. It's technique that wins the fight.

Edited October 3, 2013 by dao16

[Awk]

I used to see foreigners compete in Chiang Mai (not show fights...real ones) and they did ok, although it was generally understood that they needed a KO to win. I was told as much by foreigners and Thais alike (I was writing an article for a website, so I talked to lots of people).

That is not really true, as I with my minor, but personal, experiences, could attest to some years back. I suspect such strong bias would also be highly unpopular with the Thai crowd, who were betting money during the fight on foreigner and Thai alike. They would not be happy to lose their money on clearly wrong verdicts.

[kevozman1]

It is this way in a lot of fighting sports, the home advantage. Take boxing, an opponent from another country usually has to KO the home opponent or dominate the fight to get a win, if it goes to the judges scorecards then there is quite often controversial desicions in favour of the home fighter. Probably less so for America as that really has an international boxing scene there with boxers from all over the World competing.

I am not really sure with Muay Thai, although the home advantage (biased) judging is probably what is going on.

[MilesofSmiles]

It's common knowledge among professional fighters that you'll never win on points in Thailand.

Local judges favor local fighters everywhere though.

[Tingnongnoi]

if you are talking in the proper stadiums then that's not true, as the poster above mentioned when there is a lot of betting, there is not a Thai there that will bet on a foreigner and accept a bad decision out of favoritism for the Thai fighter! the fights are all bet on to various levels and the people doing the betting are Thai's it doesn't make sense that they would gladly lose money! I have seen plenty of fights in the main stadiums and if seen more than a few foreigners get the decision on pts. There is currently a French boxer Damien Alamos who is champion at Lumpini stadium at Super-lightweight and he has won several fights there on points including the fight when he won the belt and also when he defended it. There are on the other hand plenty of foreign fighters that complain they were robbed and call home town decision, but the reality there is often the case of not understanding how the fights are actually scored in Thailand.

[cup-O-coffee]

Thais far superior today. Basically laughing at the opponents.

Ooh more fights... Nice. Chance to redeem

It is my view that one does not have to have intelligent insight into the fighting discipline itself to comment on the subject of why Thais win over foreigners in Thailand, and I am not inferring on boxing only, but just about every other issue imaginable, whereby a Thai competes or brings an issue against a foreigner, ...in Thailand. This track record holds to its consistency on just about every issue of a Thai against a foreigner, with the caveat of. "when in Thailand".

Focusing in on that view, and singling out Thai boxing, Thai boxers are literally 99.99% non-existent in the word arena of title holders, or top 20 runner ups in literally every weight division of this sport. Their dismal record at the Olympics bears no need for mention; after all, these are superior fighters, yes? Let's not embarrass their views on being the HUB of physical superiority at this time.

This, among just about every other manner and means of demonstrating physical and intellectual skills, is only too clear to the person of average intelligence, who has not been raised in Thailand, and who would subsequently have been brainwashed into false beliefs and views of superiority over everyone else.

Does anyone truly believe that the Thais are going to let a foreigner come here and clean up the ring on their fighters? I do not.

Does anyone truly believe that a foreign fighter would want to tarnish their record and reputation by coming here and getting caught up in controversy? I do not.

In everything else about Thais, they do not like to lose face, or get their asses kicked, or experience shame, guilt, defeat, be proven wrong, inferior, weaker, less skilled and so on and so on until it nauseates one.

Understanding just about everything else about Thailand and the way these people behave and react to losing face, or getting their asses kicked, or experiencing shame, guilt, defeat, being proven wrong, being inferior, being weaker, being less skilled and so on and so on ...makes this spectacle of being superior fighters (only in Thailand) a charade, not only because they are not superior fighters, but because it simply does not measure down to everything else about them. The contrast is too glaring. It is simply a lie. Period.

The fights are fixed. Plain and simple. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the hard-working Thai men and women who fight. They are an entirely different matter, yet it is regrettable for them, I am certain, when they meet the real world of boxing, and usually only via the Olympic competitions, and those meager few who qualify end up not being on the top podium and hearing their anthem played to the world.

It is also regrettable, in my view, that Thai athletes are somehow protected from the outside world, and their handlers and organizers almost seem to build a protective shell about them, and manipulate this charade to deceive Thai athletes and fans alike that there is some kind of messianic superiority about Thai boxers. This, also, goes hand-in-hand with just about everything else about Thais, and their nationalistic approach to the rest of the world and the reality of life itself.

It simply is not that way in real life.

This is simply my inference on the matter.

[chonabot]

Thais far superior today. Basically laughing at the opponents.

Ooh more fights... Nice. Chance to redeem

It is my view that one does not have to have intelligent insight into the fighting discipline itself to comment on the subject of why Thais win over foreigners in Thailand, and I am not inferring on boxing only, but just about every other issue imaginable, whereby a Thai competes or brings an issue against a foreigner, ...in Thailand. This track record holds to its consistency on just about every issue of a Thai against a foreigner, with the caveat of. "when in Thailand".

Focusing in on that view, and singling out Thai boxing, Thai boxers are literally 99.99% non-existent in the word arena of title holders, or top 20 runner ups in literally every weight division of this sport. Their dismal record at the Olympics bears no need for mention; after all, these are superior fighters, yes? Let's not embarrass their views on being the HUB of physical superiority at this time.

Are you talking about Muay Thai or international boxing here?

1) There is no Muay Thai at the Olympics

2) Thai have a sh1tload of top rated boxers between 105-118 lbs and have dominated these weights for decades ( along with Mexicans and Filipinos)

3) They have a decent amount of MT boxers in the top ten in the same weight classes.

4) Buakhaw.....nuff said

5) Greatest ever Jr Bantamweight - Khaosai Galaxy - Boxing Hall of Fame

So which discipline are you referring to because you are wrong on both counts.

Edited November 16, 2013 by chonabot

[Tingnongnoi]

Thais have also won several gold medals in Olympics in recent years along with silver and bronze medals. Obviously cant be talking about Muaythai either as the Thais are clearly superior to the rest of the world there unsurprisingly

[Om85]

Man, in my country we say that every ruster in his own yard isn't a ruster but a lion