Wife Missing Can't Renew Marriage Visa

[klubex99]

This is not my personal predicament, but one of a German friend. I am posting this on behalf of him because he is not great with written English.

OK the subject guy split with his wife years ago. Not sure exact amount of years, but up until his last marriage visa expiry he had been renewing them and using the photocopy of his wife's ID card.

He has not seen her for years, and they were originally married in Germany 8 years ago. It was all registered here with the amphur. Apparently she has changed her name, she may have illegally remarried, or even divorced him without his knowledge by forging his signature.

Anyway, the last time he tried to renew his visa, the embassy said that the ID card was over 6 years old and they needed a new photocopy of her latest ID card.

He has been to the appropriate offices to try to track her down by the ID card image, and the Thai authorities have checked but say that it is not her name any more. Nobody seems to know where she is and unless he can find her new name, nobody can help him.

This is the bit I can't understand.....

He says that the embassy (Vientiane) only gave him a 60 day tourist single entry and told him after that he must leave the ASEAN states for at least 3 months. But he has a new gf now and runs a restaurant (in the background) with his new partner and his mother who is here on a retirement visa. He is 48 and only needs to be able to stay for another 1 year and 9 months before he can qualify for his own retirement visa. Obviously, having to leave Thailand for like 3 months is going to be a major pain in the ass.

What is his next move?

Anyone?

[billd766]

I believe that although the ID card is renewed every so often the ID card number stays the same throughout the life of a Thai person.

I just checked my wife's old and new cards and the number is the same so there is one thought for your friend.

If however she HAS changed he name there is also the chance that she has a new ID card and a new number in which case you friend could be totally screwed.

If his wife wanted to disappear from BKK for example she would only need to move perhaps 25 km and be untraceable unless she fell over someone who knew her by a fluke.

[klubex99]

billd766, on 24 Feb 2013 - 12:40, said:

I believe that although the ID card is renewed every so often the ID card number stays the same throughout the life of a Thai person.

I just checked my wife's old and new cards and the number is the same so there is one thought for your friend.

If however she HAS changed he name there is also the chance that she has a new ID card and a new number in which case you friend could be totally screwed.

If his wife wanted to disappear from BKK for example she would only need to move perhaps 25 km and be untraceable unless she fell over someone who knew her by a fluke.

About the ID number, that is exactly what my wife said. So I think she has maybe changed her whole identity, maybe she wants to be 2 people. So she has a right to claim certain things... who knows.

I think there is little to NO chance of getting any satisfaction chasing that shadow.

I did recommend that he lost his passport and got a new one from the embassy, and started getting a new run of visas which would be enough to get him to his 50th birthday.

Would anyone think that was his best option for least resistance and hassle over the next 1 year and 9 months? I think he can get 2 back to back 60 day doubles that can each be extended to 6 months and a 60 day single extended to 3 months, that gets him almost there.

[arthurwait]

If he's running a restaurant why doesn't he get a non -b and a work permit or is he determined to do everything ilegally ?

[klubex99]

If he's running a restaurant why doesn't he get a non -b and a work permit or is he determined to do everything ilegally ?

No he isn't determined to do anything illegal. His mother is here on permanent residency as I believe and he is looking after her. I think that is actually a good idea. I think he can register a LLP here and is allowed to have the WP because they employ Thai staff. I think the business is possibly in his mother's name.

I don't think his presence here is actually illegal. I think he usually does things by the book.

There are a hell of a lot of farangs here who are taking the p*** out of the system and should be deported long before this fella. They seem to get plenty of helpful advice.

I don't know all the facts of the restaurant, and I don't ever see him do any work, his staff even refresh his drinks for him. When the business is open, he won't even replace my empty bottle, he always waits for the staff and signals them to do it.

His new gf actually is the one running it I believe. I have sent him the link to the thread, he may come on and explain the situation, even though he is embarrassed about his written English.

So please don't deliberately flame him for your own pleasure like a lot of the TV members seem to enjoy. He is a newcomer, so don't give him a really bad first impression of the board. George started this website to help people with visa problems.

Edited February 24, 2013 by klubex99

[arthurwait]

Can he get a visiting family visa if his mother is here ? I'm sure i read something about that.

[beechguy]

You or he may want to consulte Police Order, 777-2551, Section 2.18. I don't think he is legal under that clause, maybe he can find an alternative.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/3139-useful-immigration-information-visa-descriptions/#entry2613047

[klubex99]

Can he get a visiting family visa if his mother is here ? I'm sure i read something about that.

Thanks for that helpful advice. He will read that and maybe a good option also.

[TommoPhysicist]

Marriage extension is only granted with permission of spouse, who must be living with him.

He is no longer entitled to that extension.

[lemoncake]

another option for the time being is to get an ED visa, Non O based on having a GF.

I know someone from Oz who was getting non 0 (other), the gf had to write a letter inviting him to stay with her and 1 year was given

[klubex99]

You or he may want to consulte Police Order, 777-2551, Section 2.18. I don't think he is legal under that clause, maybe he can find an alternative.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/3139-useful-immigration-information-visa-descriptions/#entry2613047

I read that.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.

(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto; or

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse’s children, said children, adopted children, or spouse’s children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age; or

5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year.

For other necessary cases, the Commander or Deputy Commander of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

The final line really says it for us.

[Lite Beer]

He only appears to be eligible for Tourist Visas.

He could study Thai and get Education Visas.

Or Marry his GF when he can.

[Lite Beer]

Unhelpful and inflammatory posts have been removed along with replies to them.

[crazygreg44]

I agree with what klubex99 already stated, I think going back to Germany on a stay long enough for getting a new passport and then do the back to back two tourist visa 60 days plus 30 day extension will be best next to nothing in his current situation. Within the half year of these two tourist visa he can come up with something like a one time ED visa. This would get him really close to the date when he can start the process of aquiring a retirement-visa.

I wouldn t look back twice . .what happened to his ex-wife is out of his reach already, ain't not worth the effort of further searching. He did what he could do in such a case. He seems to have built himself, his Mom and his Thai GF a solid base for making a living, and I wish him good luck!

[crazygreg44]

He only appears to be eligible for Tourist Visas.

He could study Thai and get Education Visas.

Or Marry his GF when he can.

He cannot get another marriage legally signed and accepted by german authorities, unless he shows valid divorce papers concerning his previous marriage. To perform a marriage at the local Amphur also requires proof of divorce firsthand. I think that is where the dilemma lies in the request of the poster, or it would be easy to obtain a new marriage status AND a new visa based on marriage

[Lite Beer]

Yes. That is a problem.

He somehow needs to get a divorce first to allow him to Marry again.

[wooloomooloo]

In the UK your friend would be able to divorce in absentia after about two years.

Not sure what this would be in Germany, but worth looking in to.

[ThaidDown]

The op said

'I think that is actually a good idea. I think he can register a LLP here and is allowed to have the WP because they employ Thai staff'

If he actually has a work permit then a change to a Non-B will give him the chance to receive extension within Thailand (the length of the extension may well depend on the age of the company)

The Thai id number is assigned when the birth is registered and would stay with the person through their life. To change it would mean taking over someone else's number, cannot think of any valid reason that they would change it.

Has the friend requested a KR2 from the Amphur and what comes back. Also what is the response to a search on her id number at the Amphur, if they will do it.?

If he can somehow get an updated id card of the wife I think he can get a non o at an consulate in an adjacent country to visit the wife, I thought the 'de facto and de jure only applied to extensions.

[klubex99]

The op said

'I think that is actually a good idea. I think he can register a LLP here and is allowed to have the WP because they employ Thai staff'

If he actually has a work permit then a change to a Non-B will give him the chance to receive extension within Thailand (the length of the extension may well depend on the age of the company)

The Thai id number is assigned when the birth is registered and would stay with the person through their life. To change it would mean taking over someone else's number, cannot think of any valid reason that they would change it.

Has the friend requested a KR2 from the Amphur and what comes back. Also what is the response to a search on her id number at the Amphur, if they will do it.?

If he can somehow get an updated id card of the wife I think he can get a non o at an consulate in an adjacent country to visit the wife, I thought the 'de facto and de jure only applied to extensions.

I don't really know where he went to look up her whereabouts. My wife also said that her number is always the same.

That is a good idea to get the divorce in absentia, maybe it won't be much help to his immediate situation, but it would clean up his situation for the future so he can advance into something a lot more organized. With his status being officially up to date. Then he can marry his current gf.

I don't know the German law on this also, but I'll hazard a guess that it is similar to the UK.

I am sure he must be able to transfer to a non imm 'O' for the purpose of looking after his mum.

I really do think he has options. He has actually been here 18 years with his parents, and unfortunately his father passed away here around 5 years ago. He and his mum feel more part of Thailand than Germany. I hope he can sort out this problem, he is one of the good guys here.

We did talk about an ed visa, but he speaks perfect Thai already, so maybe that would be difficult pretending to not understand Thai when the authorities know he has been here long enough to be as good as a Thai at talking the language.

[Maestro]

From the OP:

OK the subject guy split with his wife years ago. Not sure exact amount of years, but up until his last marriage visa expiry he had been renewing them and using the photocopy of his wife's ID card.

klubex99, on 24 Feb 2013 - 07:28, said:
No he isn't determined to do anything illegal...

I don't think his presence here is actually illegal. I think he usually does things by the book...

I am surprised that the immigration office continued to give him extensions of stay. This type of extension is not for being married to a Thai, it is for living with his Thai wife, and for this reason the applicant for extension normally has to bring his wife along to the immigration office for an interview, Furthermore, the wife must sign copies of her ID and house registration.

[Maestro]

From the OP:

Anyway, the last time he tried to renew his visa, the embassy said that the ID card was over 6 years old and they needed a new photocopy of her latest ID card.

There must be some confusion here. The embassy does not need to see his wife's ID card. It is the immigration office that wants to see it, plus his wife in person. Without this, the immigration office cannot accept his application for extension for the reason of living with his Thai wife.

[hgma]

Allow me but.........................

If I suggest that he,your friend, should report his wife missing, for sure i get a few 555555555

On the other hand, juggling with rules and regulations like this makes it harder for me, someone who wants to play by the rules of visaland to obtain my visas for my foreign family.

Every year new sprouds of combatting loopholes in the immigration ruling pop up for me to comply.

Thats why i suggest that your friend playes by the rules as layed down in the immigration act......Thailand.

That way everybody smiles in the land of smiles

cheese!

[klubex99]

From the OP:

OK the subject guy split with his wife years ago. Not sure exact amount of years, but up until his last marriage visa expiry he had been renewing them and using the photocopy of his wife's ID card.

klubex99, on 24 Feb 2013 - 07:28, said:

No he isn't determined to do anything illegal...

I don't think his presence here is actually illegal. I think he usually does things by the book...

I am surprised that the immigration office continued to give him extensions of stay. This type of extension is not for being married to a Thai, it is for living with his Thai wife, and for this reason the applicant for extension normally has to bring his wife along to the immigration office for an interview, Furthermore, the wife must sign copies of her ID and house registration.

Like I said. I don't know all the details.

But am assuming that the last line of a previous post explained it.

'For other necessary cases, the Commander or Deputy Commander of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.'

I don't even know the laws on marriage visa, even though I am here on one myself, but my wife took care of all the clerical side of things. Once I go through my own first renewal in 6 months, I will know better.

[klubex99]

I think if he commented, even in bad English, it would help us to help him better.

[Lite Beer]

A post giving illegal advise has been removed.

[wooloomooloo]

From the OP:

Anyway, the last time he tried to renew his visa, the embassy said that the ID card was over 6 years old and they needed a new photocopy of her latest ID card.

There must be some confusion here. The embassy does not need to see his wife's ID card. It is the immigration office that wants to see it, plus his wife in person. Without this, the immigration office cannot accept his application for extension for the reason of living with his Thai wife.

...and the photos of them inside and outside the marital home. Still, TIT, and each immigration office set their own definition and interpretation of rules and regulations and as the OP states, he's been here for eighteen years, so no big surprise if they cut him some slack.

Edited February 24, 2013 by wooloomooloo

[Maestro]

Question: How does he earn his living?

Answer:

...he has a new gf now and runs a restaurant (in the background) with his new partner and his mother...

The solution to his extension problem is simple. Get legal. Get a work permit, pay tax on his income, get an extension of stay for the reason of employment.

[LuckyLew]

A short term solution would be to go to Savankhet to get tourist visa

A long term solution would be to speak to a lawyer to get the divorce finalized legally

I believe in Thailand he can claim to be abandoned by his wife and start to petition

the court for a logal divorce based on this. He should contact a lawyer for more details

on how to proceed on this

[klubex99]

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread. I hope he finds some of it very useful, and anyone else in this situation.

[palusa]

If he's running a restaurant why doesn't he get a non -b and a work permit or is he determined to do everything ilegally ?

Was there really a reason to come out with this? What harm is he doing? .What a stupid statement to come out with to get a work permit. If you have been here anytime at all you know its a no go. Why dont people on this forum help each other in stead of being know all doom merchants.