These, so-called, banal jobs have become to me far from banal. Nothing is trying to take control of my mind or my imagination any more. I can listen, with my MP3 player (a wonderful invention) to all a Beethoven’s string quartets, one after another, uninterrupted; or all of Mozart’s late symphonies; or a recording of several Shakespeare plays; or a random selection of over 6 hours Jazz/Rock. My mind is free to dream and imagine.

And I feel free.

Indeed. Money was never my motivation for work, although i would like to be rich, i dont see myself sacraficing my ways to be rich. As the old saying goes i work to live, not live to work. The relative freedom i have driving lorries is great. I decide when i stop for breakfast and lunch, i decide what music i want to listen to, i dont have to wear a suit, if i want to stop for an hour and have a sleep i can as long as i am getting things done when required.

I travel fairly large distances on motorways, which granted at 56mph ca be pretty boring, but only if you dont have an imagination. Like TM says my mind is pretty well free to do what it wants, as long as the deliveries get done when required, no one cares what i do with my day. I plan my route the night before so when i get in my lorry in the morning i can think about what i want to think about and not what someone tells me to think about.

I am going to be rich by marrying a rich man who loves flamenco and is more than please to support this passion of mine. Then i will create a school with my own education system...

worked at carpentry and joinery, built up a good business, now i sit in the office all day pricing contracts, writing letters, listening to benal complaints, making up claims, dealing with counter claims, and looking at tv on and off had to go back to college to learn contractual law.

head aches beyond belief, and not as happy as i once was.

i was much happier putting roofs on and fitting kitchens.

start at 8 finish at 4.30, now 10hrs minimum,

and i think with the highly educated that move into high powered jobs in corprate america, england , europe and i should hazzard a guess thailand work longer hours than 10 per day now i look at the thai way and think if you could mix the two cultures one could live a little better.

education is a great thing for the right people but not for all.

education is a great thing for the right people but not for all.

agree

I chose professional qualifications as that's where my 'vocational' leanings were. However, in school I took what I found most fun and interesting. I think most people would be better of waiting for a while before deciding where their 'professional' qualification should lead them. Most of us at school age are too young to know what we want to do in life, let alone in our career.

ps to Glauka, I hope you find your rich young man. Or were you just being funny?

No, I don't believe that education is overrated. I agree that it is not the only way to gain knowledge or to achieve success in life. However we should also remember that standard education requires many years of commitment, hard work, sleepless nights, and exams. At the end of each level, the student receive a diploma or a degree which proves to the world that he has passed successfully written or/and oral examinations in a specific area of knowledge or expertise. This of course does not necessarily make him more intelligent than the other people. But when it comes to achieving a particular task or asking for an expert opinion, I believe that rightly the priority should be given to the person with the highest education in that field.

I chose professional qualifications as that's where my 'vocational' leanings were. However, in school I took what I found most fun and interesting. I think most people would be better of waiting for a while before deciding where their 'professional' qualification should lead them. Most of us at school age are too young to know what we want to do in life, let alone in our career.

ps to Glauka, I hope you find your rich young man. Or were you just being funny?

agree with your post Suegha. i was just being funny, however a rich young man who loves me will be more than welcome.

How are you doing btw?

I think it is telling that many people who lack a formal education beyond high school and who then argue that education is overrated, do so in terms of work, pay and promotion. This, to me, demonstrates the misunderstanding they have of the value of education.

For me, University was an opportunity to meet and mingle with a lot of very bright people with a lot of very different and interesting ideas.

Now you might say you can do that away from education, I disagree. University offers a high density of people with ideas and discussion on those ideas.

Central to this is the learning how to research and analyze ideas.

Yeh, the university of life will teach you lots, it teaches everyone lots – Including people who have already got a formal education.

The reason education matters, is because it does make a difference, a young person can, if they take advantage of what is to be learned in university, gain insight and a real step up in they way they look at the world and understand its workings.

They then go into world to get that self same “EXPERIENCE” that everyone else gets, but with the right tools to make more of it, should they so wish.

I'm an engineer, I have formal education in engineering, but I also studied History and Politics to degree level - I did so because I wanted the tools to understand and the most reliable way to get them is through education. Much of the lessons experience offer are in truth 'practice' and at worst 'predjudice'.

Well I have tremendous respect for education and learning. And it was a decision that shaped the rest of my life.

Even though I’m a licensed structural engineer and owned my own firm. While in school I also took some classes in business finance, because my dad also wanted me to understand how money works and to learn how to have it works for me. He also said most people never learned how money works, so they spend their lives working for someone else for the money. And that’s exactly what most people do. Whenever they not happy or didn’t get the respect they deserved, they would quit and go looking for another job, and higher pay. This cycle will be on and on…

Well I'd much rather be master of my own destiny. The ability of being able to analyze and know when to make quick decisions is an important skill I also learned from school. Money comes and goes, but if you have the professional education and financial education about how money works also, it would be better.

Education made all the difference. School is very, very important. You go to school to learn a skill or profession so as to be a contributing member of society. Every culture needs tecacher, doctors, mechanics, artists, cooks, business people, police officer, soldiers........on and on. Schools train them so our culture can thrive and flourish, but unfortunately, for many people - school is the end, not the beginning.

I think it is telling that many people who lack a formal education beyond high school and who then argue that education is overrated, do so in terms of work, pay and promotion. This, to me, demonstrates the misunderstanding they have of the value of education.

For me, University was an opportunity to meet and mingle with a lot of very bright people with a lot of very different and interesting ideas.

Now you might say you can do that away from education, I disagree. University offers a high density of people with ideas and discussion on those ideas.

Central to this is the learning how to research and analyze ideas.

Yeh, the university of life will teach you lots, it teaches everyone lots – Including people who have already got a formal education.

The reason education matters, is because it does make a difference, a young person can, if they take advantage of what is to be learned in university, gain insight and a real step up in they way they look at the world and understand its workings.

They then go into world to get that self same “EXPERIENCE” that everyone else gets, but with the right tools to make more of it, should they so wish.

I'm an engineer, I have formal education in engineering, but I also studied History and Politics to degree level - I did so because I wanted the tools to understand and the most reliable way to get them is through education. Much of the lessons experience offer are in truth 'practice' and at worst 'predjudice'.

I believe you're opening was directed at me, GH, so I'll clarify the misunderstanding that I would not see the numerous benefits of furthering one's education. Certainly I realize that the purpose of school is not soley for the preparation of a successful career and that there exists much other value and potential that can be derived from the experience; unlimited, as far as I am concerned. And, I'll add, that a successful career in my terms is not necessarily defined strictly by income or position. I'll also qualify my original statement to read that "education can be overrated' since it appears that some people are picking up an inference that I don't have much regard for education. Admittedly, it probably came off with too much finality in judgement.

As with anything, though, nothing is 100% good/right or 100% bad/wrong. What suits or works for one person may not suit or work for another. And in that sense school is not necessarily the end all, or the only possible road that leads to the fulfillment of one's desires and/or the enrichment of the quality of one's future life. There are endless options.

IMHO then, education doesn't deserve the excessive emphasis of value that it is so often associated with. By that I mean education is often purported to be the only real road to 'success.' How often have you heard the advice given to the young which roughly follows, "If you want to be successful then you better go to school," or "If you want to get ahead in life . . ." Of course the underlying implication of these types of statements is that you'll have a hard time of it otherwise. That's not necessarily true so I think this type of advice is so strongly suggestive as to be somewhat misleading.

When the belief that an educated, or degreed, individual is much more capable/worthy than, say, an individual who has years of first hand experience in a given field and this becomes the sole basis of advancement then I think it's fair to say that education is overrated. I'm not suggesting by this example that one or the other scenario always applies as the determination should be made on a case by case basis, but I have seen it adopted as a blanket policy by some companies. In fact, I believe this attitude is becoming ever more prevalent. There are most likely cases where this type of policy can be viewed as outright discrimination.

All in all I do believe furthering one's education is a wonderful way to go. It offers experience to be found nowhere else. It can be of immense value. But it's not integral to achieving anything you want to achieve in life. That's all I'm saying.

CMCool, a post doctorate may not be a degree, it can be research or some combination of coursework n research. phd, though, considered to be the highest, is always lower than the post doctorate work

Sorry ajarnmark but that is wrong. I work with and guide/instruct doctorial candidates (PhD) here at CMU. Post docs are just that, recent PhD graduates that are doing their first independant research work in a real world enviornment after being awarded their degrees .

I thnik there is an error in the poll.

Undergraduate is before you graduate with a first degree - those who have are graduates.

Sorry if that is being picky...

Well, dont take it very seriously, this is just one attempt to find out the general level of education of people here. So dont take it personally, no offence intended.

On your poll ......

The top category I believe your computer made a mistake

I believe what you were thinking was: "PhD or Post Graduate Work."

Regards,

ChiefBem

Well, dont take it very seriously, this is just one attempt to find out the general level of education of people here. So dont take it personally, no offence intended.

My formal education includes an undergraduate business degree (B.B.A.) and graduate degrees (M.S.A. / M.B.A.). Additionally, I have extensive training in analytical and technical fields (cryptanalysis/cryptology, communications, telecommunications, linguistics, and engineering.)

I have gained the most effective and valuable form of informal education by living and working outside of the continental United States (Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, and Central America) in excess of 18 years. Being married to a Thai Lady for 35 years can truly be considered an enjoyable learning experience.

What's Your Academic Education?

The above is another new poll on this forum about education.

Regards,

ChiefBEM

On your poll ......

The top category I believe your computer made a mistake

I believe what you were thinking was: "PhD or Post Graduate Work."

Regards,

ChiefBem

That makes more sense.

I thnik there is an error in the poll.

Undergraduate is before you graduate with a first degree - those who have are graduates.

Sorry if that is being picky...

Sorry mate!

The first four year degree is a Bachelor's Degree and it is called an "Undergraduate Degree."

The second degree is called a Master's Degree and it is called a "Graduate Degree."

The highest is the Ph.D. (Philosophiae Doctor or Doctor of Philosophy or Ed.D. Doctor of Education) which is after you have attained a Bachelor (Undergraduate) Degree and a Master's (Graduate) Degree.

If you have attained a Master's (Graduate) Degree and are working on your Ph.D., your category is doing post graduate work.

Regards,

ChiefBEM

Faculty Member

University of Phoenix

I'm sure it's already been said, education is no substitute for intellect, common sense, or actual experience. Some of the most clever people have a limited education but are gifted nevertheless.

I beleive there is a modecom (spelling!) of intellect on this forum, present company excluded!

I have often wondered the same thing. But I also wonder the jobs they hold with the education they have

Most major corporations want executive officers and senior directors that have a Master's Degree and preferably a Master's in Business Administration. They encourage their managers to go after an MBA by paying for the school and providing incentive pay raises based on having the MBA (or other master's level degrees.)

Regards,

ChiefBEM

I have often wondered the same thing. But I also wonder the jobs they hold with the education they have

Most major corporations want executive officers and senior directors that have a Master's Degree and preferably a Master's in Business Administration. They encourage their managers to go after an MBA by paying for the school and providing incentive pay raises based on having the MBA (or other master's level degrees.)

Regards,

ChiefBEM

In reference to $$ and MBAs

(New college graduates in 2005)

The following is a small part of an article published on www.gmac.com

http://www.gmac.com/gmac/VirtualLibrary/Pu...duateSurvey.htm

"2005 MBA Graduates Optimistic about the Future

May-June 2005

The MBA graduating class of 2005 has plenty to celebrate about. This year’s business school graduates are fielding more job offers and higher base salaries than any class since 2001, according to the latest GMAC® Global MBA® Graduate Survey.

Average base salaries have hit $90,652 per year for people who have accepted positions, the survey found. People still mulling job possibilities said they expect to receive an average base salary of $84,318, up from the $76,147 respondents in 2004 said they anticipated and the $73,100 expected by survey participants in 2003."

If interested go to the web site and read the rest of the article.

Regards,

ChiefBEM

My highest education is that I lived almost 20 years with my parents... there is no degree I got for this and to be honest THEY deserve it for educating/teaching me and bringing me up...and I'm rather thankful for that then expecting anything...

BTW I got the admission to university (scholl wise) but made never use of it - hence I'm missing the vocational choice as well.

KY

im a high school bum

Those people have been in the workforce. They don't get rewarded with better positions simply because they completed an MBA.

HND in Mechanical Engineering.

MSc in Materials Technology(No, nothing to do with silk)

Would be good if money was important to me, which it isn't.

To the OP - why do you call yourself "Ajarn"?

This is a title that is earned, or if you work in a university.

Guys who teach kids, are "khroo".

Law degree and diploma in surveying. Retired at 50 to watch the baby, dog and mango trees grow

Those people have been in the workforce. They don't get rewarded with better positions simply because they completed an MBA.

You are correct!

However, some companies that pay for an employee to further their formal education do provide an incentive in the form of an incentive bonus (one time $$) and/or an increase in their base salary.

Additionally, some companies have special programs for management/executive internships that stipulate if you are accepted by a university to enter a master's or Ph.D. program and accepted into the company program you will be placed into an executive training program in the company upon completion of the program and attaining your advanced degree.

ChiefBEM

I believe you're opening was directed at me, GH

No, sorry it was not.

As for experience.

I went to University at the age of 27, having completed a four year technical apprenticeship and five years of work experience.

I entered university thinking that it was going to provide me with the missing qualification and that with my life experience the studies were going to be a doddle.

I recall very well thinking to myself I'm in a room full of kids, when I looked around at my class mates, the majority being 18 years old.

I very quickly learned the difference between 'Training/Experience and Education'.

I just as quickly learned to respect the ability of my younger class mates, they exhibited a flexibility of mind and thinking that was at first remarkable and secondly inspiring.

I've done both, I value both, and if I had to choose I'd say education first, experience later.

I earned a B.S. (that's a B.Sc. to you Brits & Aussie's & etc.) from Stanford.

I later attended the Graduate School of Hard Knocks.

IMHO, most MBAs aren't worth it unless you attend a top 20 university. not because they are really that much better program wise, but because employers will pay much more for it. but there is a shelf life even for ivy league MBAs, if you don't recover your investment within something like the first 5 years post MBA, then chances are you wont. generally speaking, once you are past your early-thirties, your actual work achievments start to dictate your pay scale and the MBA diminishes in importance.

In some cases, higher education is over-rated (spell checked !). Certain degree programs do little to prepare their students for life in the real world.

Some "Liberal Arts" degrees for example. I know people that spent years in university, mostly partying and having a good time, then graduating with a recognized degree in something like "Romantic Languages".

I had a private in my platoon while I was posted to Germany. He had a degree in that very subject, couldn't get a job and ended up joing the army as an Infantry soldier. When I was posted to a base near Victoria (British Columbia), I met a couple (guy/girl) who had just finished their 2nd degree program. They were living off of student loans and had no intention of looking for work.

Instead, they moved to Vancouver to attend the university there (U.B.C.), as they had run out of "easy" courses to take in Victoria.

When I tried to apply to the United Nations a few years ago, the primary qualification they were looking for was a university degree. Any degree would do, didn't matter what your major was.

If you didn't have a degree, they expected you to have a minimum of 7 years of experience working in that field (for example, 7 years or more working in a Logistics related job if you were applying for a Logistics related position).

So, 4 years of slacking it at a university studying anything, or 7 years of actually doing a relevant job. Who would you rather hire ? (If you are the UN, it's the person with the degree).

(Despite what everyone used to tell me in school about how important subjects like algebra and calculus were, 27 years later and I still have not used either one. Was that a waste of time or what ?)

I have three BA Degrees, Anthropology, Sociology, Economics and part of a Masters in Education. I taught for a while on the college level but it did not pay enough so I quit and went into business.

My recent views on education have been colored by my youngest daughter who got all of the smarts in the family. She attended a special school for advanced children from the time she was in 2nd grade. The school went from grade school through high school. Two of her classmates got perfect scores on the SAT test.

Her school mates were among the most intelligent and well educated kids I have ever met. They all spoke at least three languages fluently by 16 years of age and almost all played at least two instruments with professional ability.

There were no sports at the school. But the children won all the State and National math contests and debating team awards.

She had to take an eight hour battery of academic and psychological tests to gain admission. If any of the students dropped below a B average they were dismissed from the school and there were no easy courses at the school. We received her first offer of a college scholarship when she was 11 years old.

She graduated with honors and is now in her second year of college and her part time job is Anchorwoman at the local radio station. All of her friends go to school at colleges ranked in the top ten in the US. My daughter is well spoken and well connected and it is due to her education.

I think one of the most important factors in Education is connections or networking. She spends her summers in France or Italy with friends and when she graduates will have a bag full of job offers from people she knows and went to school with.

Also her Sin Sot will be incredibly high if I can get her to move to Thailand.

I think there are a few other misconceptions about education that deserve clarification.

Firstly Employer Choice, formal higher education has been widely available and taken up in most western nations for at least one generation. It is the norm nowadays that applicants for any professional position, and for a good many non professional posts, will have at least a degree AND experience.

Secondly education no longer stops once a job is found. A significant number of the staff in the people in the office I work (including myself) have recently completed or are currently studying for masters degrees/post graduate diplomas or professional qualifications. People in their 50s are studying part time, people in their twenties are coming out of professional training and going straight back into studies. Education is continuous and parallel with experience.

Experience is valuable, always will be valuable, but for many jobs in today’s economy it is no longer enough.